President Obama Tells Insurance Execs of Constant Premium Hikes: This Is ‘Unacceptable and Unsustainable’

The article by Ezra that is linked to is a good worthwhile read. As he rightly points out:
“What the profit motive does do is create an incentive for cruel practices such as rescission and risk selection. Those practices, it’s important to note, almost certainly save the system money in the aggregate. They are not why costs grow. But they are bad practices and should be stopped….
That said, the current insurance market does drive cost growth in two main ways.
The first is that it’s fractured among thousands of plans and competitors and business arrangements, and that fracturing is inefficient. Medicare negotiates better rates because Medicare has a large customer base, giving it power in those negotiations. An insurer covering a bunch of small businesses in Iowa does not.
The second is that the insurance market is broadly parasitic on the employer-based market, which as I’ve argued before, allows everyone to pass costs onto someone else and tricks individuals into thinking they’re getting a good deal when they’re really getting a terrible deal.”
I also think its hard to justify the lobbying money spent to maintain the status quo when innovation is clearly needed.

In the comment section of the blog post by the economist, Mark Perry that the article links to there is an interesting point made about efficiency and potential cost savings in the private sector when it comes to filings of challenges for even pre-approved services.

Before President Obama scolds yet another American about what is “unacceptable and unsustainable”, he needs to look to himself and begin addressing the “Costs Costs Costs” of his administration’s unimaginable sprees
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What a joke to hear people attacking the Democrats for “Costs Costs Costs”.
It was the Bush Republican administration that doubled the national debt to $10 trillion and exploded the deficits – and this during the ‘good’ times when money should have been put away for a rainy day.
And what did we get for all that Republican spending? The biggest economic collapse since the Great Depression.
Sure . . . thanks Republicans – we’ll be sure to listen to you.

“It was the Bush Republican administration that doubled the national debt to $10 trillion and exploded the deficits – and this during the ‘good’ times when money should have been put away for a rainy day.”
Every day is a rainy day if you’re named Fannie, Freddie or Goldman!

I also think its hard to justify the lobbying money spent to maintain the status quo when innovation is clearly needed.
Posted by: progressive mama | Mar 4, 2010 1:34:58 PM
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I agree about lobbying. Which makes it hard to understand this exchange (taken from the White House website from last Friday at the presser with Robert Gibbs). You’d think the president wouldn’t meet with lobbies without transparency. I wonder what they talked about?
Q And, secondly, the President now admits that on health care the White House fell somewhat short on transparency. Now, I’m wondering if the White House would be willing to go back and rectify that and make available transcripts, tapes, documentation from the meetings that took place in the spring and the summer with the pharmaceutical lobby and the — health care.
MR. GIBBS: There are not tapes of any meetings. I think that ended about the mid-70s. There are not tapes or transcripts of –
Q Minutes?
MR. GIBBS: — of meetings. There’s not a stenographer in these — in these events.

People eat garbage, they smoke, they then take lots of meds to sustain themselves. We really can’t afford that type of behavior. Plus the hospitals love doing tests. Maybe well-care checkups should be a thing of the past. Too much use of the medical establishment.

WE NEED TO REPLACE ALL LIBERALS IN CONGRESS.
Posted by: OBAMA-PELOSI-REID HAVE NO PROBLEM GOVERNING “AGAINST” THE WILL OF THE PEOPLE! | Mar 4, 2010 2:04:12 PM
Oh sheesh. Vote out the progressives and the liberals and then we’ll have nobody standing up for the ideals this country was founded on– they’ll all be wholly owned subsidiaries of lobbyists– insurance, oil, etc.
Brilliant. Good-bye small business and middle class.
What we need is more than two parties– four or five– and some bright innovative thinkers and doers from all over the political spectrum, who aren’t ideologues, are highly aware of present-day circumstances or aren’t tied to special interests.
The gridlock has to go. And we need politicians able to get out of the ruts that have been created.

Corporations run this country and we need to take it back.

Yes, this country was founded on the ideals of small government, low taxes and individual responsibility. Ben Franklin believed that the ‘unconfort’ of being poor would be the motivation to better ones self.

The healthcare system is broken. I don’t think the Democrats plan is a good one, but something needs to be done. The republicans think’s the system is just fine, they need to wakeup and join the debate.

Obama knows what he’s doing – slowly dragging down the economy. Just read the Cloward and Piven strategy. Healthcare bill must be stopped.

“Sebelius said that the woman, in a letter to the president, “enumerated what she is paying for pharmaceuticals. She has the highest deductible possible and yet she is still seeing these extraordinary rate increases.”
This is really funny… what does she think a President, that is DEEP in debt to the Pharmas, for their support, is going to do… Obama is so in bed with the BIG DRUG CO’s.. he sold his soul
Obama names brother of undecided House Dem to Appeals Court…
‘Whatever it takes to get healthcare done,’ said Press Secretary Robert Gibbs…
The culture of corruption continues

I could afford the constant premium hikes if I didn’t have to pay the constant tax hikes.

He’s unpopular, doesn’t know how to reach out across the aisle and compromise to reach a solution.
How the hell will he govern when he has to deal with Republicans in the House and Senate?
You think it gets easier after this passes? We’ll be paying for years before we even get anything back. And what we are proposed to get back, the majority of the American people don’t even want! 80 percent of people are happy with their health care, this is destroying the system to cover the last 20 percent, which consist of young people who don’t get sick, and illegal immigrants who are living off the subsidies provided by the dwindling taxpayer class. (Which ironically doesn’t include members of THIS administration!)
Obama will either learn the lession of Bill Clinton and be rewarded with a 2nd term, or he will go the way of Jimmy Carter, and be drummed out of office after a long, hard, slog, of four miserable years…
If this is his choice, he has made the wrong one. Maybe this is what Bill was trying to warn us about in the primary, ya THINK!!!

Call, don’t email. Give them your zip code. And if you’re in favor of health care reform and you’re rep is a Dem, assure the rep’s intern you’ll pressure the Senate to pass the fixes as well.
Posted by: progressive mama
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and if you are AGAINST this sham of a bill CALL and raise HOLY HECK.. Tell them we are voting you out
Howard Dean: Health bill hangs Dem incumbents and Obama out to dry in elections…
LMAO Yeppers.. Thanks MR DEAN
Obama VS America

Obama VS America
Posted by: another crisis-another photo op | Mar 4, 2010 2:38:28 PM
___________________________________
Republicans trying to get re-elected at any cost to America by demonizing the Democrats and the President.
Same sleazy tactics.
Back to the days of Bush, Cheney, Rumsfeld, Wolfowitz and the rest of the liars . ..
Back to the ‘good old days’ of ‘fiscal responsibility’ . .

Get your friends, call the local media, and go to your local congrssional office to tell them you are part of the 2/3 majoity (per the average of recent polls) that does not want this healthcare bill, since most of us don’t have the luxury to go to Washington.

They don’t pretend its on the table.
—
Hmmm. That sounded like I think Obama pretends. I think he means it. I’m not sure everyone in the admin means it quite as much as he does– and it may have turned out to be a little more difficult than it sounds on the campaign trail.

Every one of us is just one major health issue away from bankruptcy. Don’t believe it
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I believe it.

From the New York Post:
Oh, the irony.
After claiming that she would preside over the “most ethical Congress in history,” Nancy Pelosi is instead presiding over the same kind of shenanigans that cost Republicans their majority in 2006.
Yesterday, iconic Harlem Congressman and key Pelosi lieutenant Charles Rangel was forced to resign his chairmanship of the House Ways and Means Committee after he was reprimanded by the Ethics Committee for travel to the Caribbean.
Later in the day, one-term New York Congressman Eric Massa, a fellow Democrat, announced he would not be seeking re-election, though he claimed it was completely unrelated to charges that he made a sexual advances on a male aide.
LMAO
Obama VS America

Obama’s moves towards transparency and booting out of lobbyists may not be perfect but it is many, many steps in the right direction.
Posted by: tierra | Mar 4, 2010 2:24:19 PM
I agree (gasp!).
I hope they use good judgment however and don’t just sweep through the lobbyist system so that real expertise really helping these advisory committees isn’t compromised and they lose their effectiveness.
And since it is Obama taking this action, I’m afraid I have to look closely at the motivation and the track the results.
Changing your eating habits for the long-term always works better than a crash diet.

What ‘constant tax hikes’?
Posted by: tierra | Mar 4, 2010 2:35:58 PM
You know, they can never ever point to actual tax hikes (because they haven’t had any!)
Low information voters– it would be really funny if it wasn’t so agitating.

the health insurance industry, with an average profit margin of 3.3 percent, is the 86th most profitable industry.
As the Washington Post’s Ezra Klein notes, that’s a lower margin of profit than many other players in health care, such as the pharmaceutical industry (16.5 percent), “health information services (9.3 percent), home health care (8.4 percent), medical labs and research (8.2 percent), medical instruments and supplies (6.8 percent), biotech firms (6.7 percent), and generic drug manufacturers (6.6 percent).”
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Is this supposed to show him fighting for the little guy so much show did someone with a white coat walk in behind him?? Rate increases like that are very hard and real but get real. Please right now who has the White House made the backroom deal with? Big Pharma (at 16.5 profits they top the list of big profiteers WITH INSURERS AT THE BOTTOM WITH 3.3). It’s like a bully picking a fight with the smallest kid. Seriously and what is in this “healthcare reform” to address the costs for big pharma, health info, home health, labs, instruments/supplies, more pharma -nothing nada zip. This is not a health reform bill it it a health insurance expansion with US taxpayers picking up the even bigger price tag.

jafo Said: “How the hell will he govern when he has to deal with Republicans in the House and Senate?”
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LOL! …. jafo, here’s a better question:
According to Medical News Today, Health Insurance Premiums increased 76% between 2000 and 2006, when we had a republican president and republican majorities in the senate and house of representatives. THIS PROBLEM DID NOT START YESTERDAY! Here’s my question… “Why didn’t the republicans do anything about the rapidly rising health care cost/insurance premiums during those years when they had the opportunity to do so?”
You’re a fool if you really think that voting republican is going to solve this crisis… they love the system, just the way it is, with 20%++ inflation each year on health insurance premiums! LOL.

another crisis-another photo op | Mar 4, 2010 2:57:49 PM……The same honesty as CSPAN in the healthcare negotiations, I won’t raise your taxes 1 penny if you makes less than $250K, ad infinitum)?! That’s the source.

I had to laugh. Obama has to break up the monopoly that ALL these insurance companies have on the market.
Isn’t a monopoly when there is only one company?
Yeah, we got to break up the monopoly held by all these insurance companies! And then replace that with a single payer system, to avoid a monopoly!
Nothing like going from several payers to one payer to avoid that monopoly!
What we need is a drug company to come up with a treatment for whatever mental illness some liberals seem to have!

The use of these personal letters is just so lame. You know your argument sucks when you have to turn to such juvenile political tactics and argue on emotion instead of fact. Instead of answering why the numbers for this bill may be misleading because there are six years of outlays and ten years of receipts or addressing that CBO can only use the numbers that the congressmen and bills give them and cannot point out this fact, the Democrats and the President screech about a lady wearing her dead sister’s teeth, and then get mad when Cantor brings in a political prop. Message to the President, the letters are political props. They don’t add to the discussion. No one is saying that there aren’t health care problems. We’re just disagreeing on the method of solving the problem and pointing out that your plan has so many financial holes, it’s laughable.

Pretty soon Obama can just fire these execs like he did GM. And you wonder why people are labeling him a socialist? Nationalizing industries for the ‘good of the people’ is Socialism. Obama should have taken a cue from the Fabian society.
The whole House Progressive Caucus is supported by the DSA (Democratic Socialists of America). And PES just LOVES Obama.
Go to their websites and read how much they love Obama, Nancy, and most certainly Waxman.

Pretty soon Obama can just fire these execs like he did GM.
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Says who? What your imagination makes up – and reality are two different things.
Stick to facts and reality.

LMAO! “single payer” isn’t even in the current proposals (senate nor house)… it was dropped from the senate and house bills about 6 months ago!
Geeze, can’t the right-whiners keep up with what’s going on with this legislation? Or, is Fox News not keeping you informed?
Posted by: GeorgieBushie | Mar 4, 2010 3:29:06 PM
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The Republican right has little to do with facts or reality – it’s more like religious cult. Creepy.

LMAO! “single payer” isn’t even in the current proposals (senate nor house)… it was dropped from the senate and house bills about 6 months ago!
Geeze, can’t the right-whiners keep up with what’s going on with this legislation? Or, is Fox News not keeping you informed?
Posted by: GeorgieBushie | Mar 4, 2010 3:29:06 PM
You need to think beyond the obvious and actually analyze the comment.
For Obama to call thousands of individual companies a monopoly is laughable and best and sinister propaganda at worst. This sounds like something Hugo Chavez would say. The President is on record saying he wants a single payer system. Heather’s comment is appropriate and shows she’s actually using her brain.

“Pretty soon Obama can just fire these execs like he did GM.”
After Tenn. Republican Sen. Bob Corker’s “let the Big Three go bankrupt” comment, it’s not surprising how that little Michigan/Tennessee plant closing was resolved. The Spring Hill Tenn plant was closed down and (surprise) was merged with the plant in Michigan.

This is the pot calling the kettle black.
You want to see run away money, look
in the mirror you tone deaf politicians
in Washington !!! Can they not see the
folly in their own words. Can they be
this stupid or do they think the public
is stupid???? This bunch is unbelievable.
I would not trust them running a lemonade
stand, much less the health care system.
They are not experts in anything except
lining their own pockets.

Obama was pointing out it would be difficult to pass health care reform with 50 + 1 – and that it would be easier to get a bill in front of the President with a full 60 seats. He thought it might take 60 seats to do it – he did not say it was wrong to do it with less!
Posted by: tierra | Mar 4, 2010 3:24:36 PM
Just get this in your Inbox? It’s good spin.

For The Record Said: “The President is on record saying he wants a single payer system. Heather’s comment is appropriate and shows she’s actually using her brain.”
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LMAO!…. but those who understand how congressional bills become laws understand that it doesn’t matter how much the President “wants” a single payer system, there is not a majority in the congress that will support it (including many Democrats)… therefore it was taken out of the “EXISTING” versions of the bills.
LOL… yeah, “using her brain”… LOL…more like “wasting brain cells” worrying about something that is no longer even being proposed… sort of like worrying about “death panels”, and “birth certificates”… you know, those little things that cause right-whiners to lose sleep over at night…hehehe!

No, I’m calling your right wing sources liars and distorters of truth – and I would not trust them to accurately represent anyone’s words.
Posted by: tierra
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Katie Couric a right winger? LMAO this little guy has lost it
Posted by: another crisis-another photo op | Mar 4, 2010 3:47:58 PM
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newsbusters – right wingers.

The President is on record saying he wants a single payer system. Heather’s comment is appropriate and shows she’s actually using her brain.
Posted by: For the Record | Mar 4, 2010 3:36:10 PM
Actually, that is an inaccurate statement. The president is on record saying that if he were to start from scratch he’d go with single payer. He likes the idea, more or less, but doesn’t think its politically feasible, and he’s right.
Heather basically thinks a higher average IQ is a mental illness (see her comments about liberals)

ONE MORE THOUGHT. This coming from OBAMA who has never made an honest dollar in his entire life. WHERE is his work record? When has OBAMA built and created a product and sold it to people? When has he had to make payroll? When has he done anything that is totally dependent on the consumer and the market, you know the REAL WORLD. Instead he treats HONEST people who are playing by the RULES that the US government have given them as EVIL.
WHAT?? Obama is the EVIL one here. LEAVE the safety of you WHITE Palace and go out and scrape out an HONEST living. WE voted in a complete FOOL.

“”"”"Stick to facts and reality.”"”"”
Posted by: tierra
Fact: Our government asked him to resign. Reality: He did.

ChicagoBob Said: “This coming from OBAMA who has never made an honest dollar in his entire life. WHERE is his work record?”
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LMAO! …. let’s see, graduate of Harvard Law School… which means he at least has 7 years of college.
Sure is a lot more than you did in your lifetime Bob… at least he completed “some” college, not just high school… hehehehe!

let’s see, graduate of Harvard Law School… which means he at least has 7 years of college. GeorgieBushie >>>>>GEE some peoples kids but what do you expect from democrats.
Where was his corporate experience?
When did he have to hire fire manage
people? Who around him actually meets a payroll? You know pay people by what you make and sell. NOT the artifical I can borrow anything payroll, but a REAL payroll.
Harvard.. GOD that school should be closed after the genius’s from Wall Street that went there almost sank the entire country. Going to a good school dont give you a lick of common sense ya know nor does it make you a decent person. And Obama may be a decent person but common sense is something he sure dont have.
The people have rejected this in the best way the knew how. BUT Obama is either EVIL or has not sense. WE the people know that this massive BILL is the WRONG bill and the wrong way to reduce costs. 10 years of taxes doesnt seem like an honest measure for 6 years of spending does it?

OK Right-Whiner Bob…. homework assignment… what were the Bush deficit”S” for 2002, 2003, 2004, 2005, 2006, 2007, 2008, AND 2009?
GeorgieBushie>>> LESS than the stimulus and bailouts of OBAMA. Yes BORROW and ruin our childrens future for your greed and selfish life style is what you are about. SELFISH democrats. FOR your comfort and to deny your children the opportunites that his nation has to offer you are trying to RAM this DEBT up our backsides. WHERE is your fiscal responsibility?
WHERE is unemployment since Obama has taken over? IN THE TANK.
30 MILLION people unemployed loosing homes and all this GOOF talks about is SPENDING another TRILLION for health care? What does it matter to those on the street. HE FIDDLES for his EGO while people loose their homes. THIS OBAMA is pure self centered ego.

“”"”"Obviously you just do not like Obama period….or you have no respect for higher education period!”"”"”
Posted by: stop being so selfish
Ever heard of being “book smart”? That’s what Obama is.What do you consider “higher education”? A masters degree? Obama studied constitutional law and this bill infringes on the constitution if we are forced to pay for private insurance.

I still believe it would be a lot easier to expand medicare to severely under/un employed and people who have severe diseases and pre-existings.. make sure children under 16 have access to medical care without a lot of questions asked at all.. from a superfund.. and make health insurers a regulated industry..as well as larger hospital groups. Also.. people over 50 should be slowly taken off of private insurance and onto medicare. Soda, snack and sin taxes should be used to pay for a large portion.

“I happen to be a proponent of a single payer universal health care program.” obieone40 >>>> Let me run some history behind you. Did you know that we are famous graft corruption and loss of tax money? During Johnson and Carter and Regan there were measurments on HOW much money of every dollar you sent to Washington that was allocated for a program actually got to the program. It was less than 50cents on the dollar. A side note democrats ran everything then too. THIS historical fact is why I am against government running anything but our national defense and some minor programs.
The corruption is too easy, ask Charlie Ragel and a long list of others.
Should the protection of the insurance companies be lifted? YES. Should the meidical companies have a new way to get reimbursed for experiemental drug loses? Yes. TORT reform YES we need it.
POOLING to force people to compete? YES. Common medical record format to reduce costs? YES. Portable health care? YES.
Cant be dropped after X days of getting hhealth care yes.
ALL THESE THINGS dont need to be in a Huge bill nor do they need to be lumped together.
Fact Medicaid and Medicare is BROKE and nis now forced to reduce payments which is forcing doctors to drop those patients. WHY are doctors costs so high? Lawyers, staff, equipment and education. ALL expensive. Its an expensive business. WE DONT even have enough doctors do we? Is there anything here in this bill to help that?
There are so many things that are WRONG with the democrats but democrats are deaf. The proof of this is their desire to RAN this bill against the WILL of the American people.

I would be embarassed if I still called myself an Obama supporter. This guy has been in a downward spiral since the day he took office and I just dont know how much lower he can go before crashing. I almost feel sorry for him but hey, he brought it on himself.

Posted by: obieone40 | Mar 4, 2010 4:51:23 PM
And since 2003, he’s acknowledged that while he likes single payer, and would implement single payer if starting from scratch, its not politically feasible– and he’s right. You can also find quotes and clips that back me up on that.
The bill on the table is not single payer. In fact, Republicans played tricks with Bernie Sanders’ single payer amendment wasn’t even voted on. Nor is the public option in the bill.

I think I’ll stick with the CBO and a broad consensus of economists in regards to the need for TARP, the stimulus and health care reform. progressive mama<<<<< Define health care reform. Does that require a take over of the industry? Does that mean we increase our debt a TRILLION dollars so our dollar becomes junk currency? DEFINE reform and you will see that the PRESIDENTS version IS insulting to those with a lick of common sense. Harvard economists.. My god many of them graduated and went to Wall Street didnt they? ROFL.. They should burn that school down for the misery its caused the nation.

Speak for yourself!!! I want the insurance companies to sweat!
stop being so selfish>>>>> WHAT makes you think they are going to sweat? There is no premimum reduction in this bill. Obama is going to FORCE people to buy their product. The insurance companies are laughing at you. They are going to raise their premiums and say JUMP and you will have to say how high because I have to BUY insurance.
Happy now?
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
>>>Besides there would be a greater demand for doctors, healthcare
professionals and more jobs!
>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>
WHO is going to want to be a doctor when you will get BEAT up by Obama on what you can make? BEING a GOOD doctor is VERY hard work. In fact they could make more money on Wall Street ripping you off as many of Obama’s and Timmys Harvard friends are doing right now.
So You think about WHY get under paid and beat up to WORK very hard and learn massive amounts of information and stay current and BE THREATENED by lawsuits to become a doctor?
YOUR desire for something or nothing is sad.

stop being so selfish-have you ever applied to a professional school?I have great respect for higher education,just not for individuals who need “special help” to get in.Prove me wrong-why is Corpseman Obama afraid to release his transcripts? Why couldn’t he cut it at Occidental?What were his LSAT results?Where are his legal publications?Why couldn’t he renew his Illinois law license?These are easy questions for a bona fide scholar,but not for a sham.
Posted by: Nephron | Mar 4, 2010 5:00:28 PM***************Yes I have so that is why I made my statement to you. Since when in this atmosphere is okay to look down on someone who has advance degrees….it is hard work! That aside I just think you dont like him and that is fine but dont discredit the truth. That is the problem! YOu notice none of this has become a major issue for the republican “mature”party because it is rumors and your attacking him based on YOUR EMOTIONS. Most Americans want to know what solutions are you providing, how are you going to fix the current problems, what are your ideas. Personal attacks are just high school jargon with no real teeth. As a result…..he still was elected!

Its more embarrassing that the GOP still is taken seriously by anyone who lived through the past decade.
Posted by: progressive mama
Actually the last decade has been very good to most folks, its the last two years that have gotten bad. Now let me think, who has been in control of the purse strings for the last three years, democrats.

Its more embarrassing that the GOP still is taken seriously by anyone who lived through the past decade.
progressive mama <<<<< SPOKEN like a true Koolaid drinker. I live in Chicago. I have seen demonrats and their poltical games. You talk about corruption and pay offs. I guess thats the kind of government you want. You know the best you can afford while the people suffer. IL is about last in everything and the honest folks pay a HIGH price for it all. WE are on the brink of bankruptcy and who runs our fair state? DEMOCRATS. Indiana right next door is run by republicans and DOING WELL. THEY have common sense. YOU DONT spend 24×7 because some day the rain will come. And Indiana hasnt. THEY were prudent and are now laughing at us in IL.
IL we pay high prices for teachers and rank very low in results.. WOW we are proud.. We are democrat controled. We have been the murder capitol of America. Thank you democrats. We have holes in our streets and now in the soles of shoes. Businesses are leaving because of high taxes. Thank you democrats. People are leaving.. Thank you democrats. We have doctors leaving because of the LAWYERs suing them all. Thank you democrats. We have massive corruption. Thank you democrats.

“”"”"Obviously you just do not like Obama period….or you have no respect for higher education period!”"”"”
Posted by: stop being so selfish
Higher education gives a person enough knowledge to be dangerous. Experience is what counts.

What professional school?Were you accepted?What undergraduate degree do you have?If you have gone through the process,you almost certainly seen someone like Obama with zero pre-admission credentials

Actually the last decade has been very good to most folks,
____
Oh, sure. Not just okay, but “very good.” That’s why there was a two term income decline, real wages have declined steadily since 1982, the number of uninsureds increased, medical inflation continues to skyrocket, poverty has increased, the stock market performance was mediocre, the gap between the wealthy and the poor has increased, jobs were shipped overseas, lives were lost in an unnecessary war, small businesses were squeezed, the housing bubble burst and so on…
But as long as YOU were doing okay, why think about anyone else, right? Let’s just exaggerate and call it “very good” because otherwise you might have to admit the GOP has no credibility. Just keep kicking chronic problems down the road and applying magical thinking to the real world.

Insurance company profits only 3.3? Executive pay on a par with other similarly sized companies. Democrats seem to need scape goats! Why not have the states set up scared risk pools like they do with auto insurance, for the uninsurable. Get rid of state mandates for health insurance(why must your health insurance cover chiropratic if you don’t plan to use it).Allow competition accross state lines. Allow meds from Canada. SIMPLE SOULUTIONS

I don’t have the option of not paying, so the government shouldn’t have the option of “MISMANAGEMENT” now should they?
_______
Try being totally against war and finding out how money in Iraq was just squandered big time by contractors.
Its sickening.
But I think if we got stuck with an ill-begotten war that the GOP was all into, then the GOP can deal with the health care reform we want. We voted in Dems, and this was a big part of their platform.

But as long as YOU were doing okay, why think about anyone else, right? Let’s just exaggerate and call it “very good” because otherwise you might have to admit the GOP has no credibility. Just keep kicking chronic problems down the road and applying magical thinking to the real world.
Posted by: progressive mama
Thanks to the democrats wanting “afforadable housing for all” kind of sounds like “healthcare for all” Fannie and Freddie relaxed their regulations for borrowers and guess what, the housing bubble blew up and burst. Now thanks to the democrats and their spending we have a goverment debt bubble that is going to pop soon. After that happens “healthcare for all” will be a distant memory.

ChicagoBob…While your at it why don’t you also tell us about the number of “unemployed”, number of “uninsured”, the number of forclosures due to job losses of the good people of Indiana etc. I am sure of one thing. Since the state is run by Republicans/conseravtives that those numbers are also part of your description of “Indiana doing well”. Republicans/Conservatives have a funny way of defining that term “doing well”, I have found. It always depends if you are one of the “lucky haves”.

“”"Speak for yourself!!! I as an American want this bill(although imperfect) for me and my employees and many other Americans want this bill!”"”
Posted by: stop being so selfish
I really get a kick out of you saying “speak for yourself” and right behind that you speak for “many Americans”, quite hypocritical. While you may enjoy the majority 51-49 option, we enjoy the simple majority of Americans AGAINST THIS BILL in every poll you see. So, are the majority of Americans selfish or do they understand this bill is wasting more money? I’ll go with the latter.
Posted by: lfrichar | Mar 4, 2010 5:24:40 PM******************The Americans ARE FOR THE proponents IN THE BILL period and that is an overwhelming majority when it is explained in an informative unbiased way! I thought you had to go!

Obamas LIES.
The Missing “Doc Fix”
Look up on how they are cooking the books. And why this plan is far more expensive than anyone things.
LIES LIES and more LIES.

Posted by: stop being so selfish | Mar 4, 2010 5:55:48 PM
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Regarding your poll numbers cited would you be willing to please share where those poll numbers are from because they really go against the majority of respected, main stream polling out there.

Next jobs to be lost. Check the newer flat screen TV’s and Blu-ray DVD players. The upper end models are starting to come with internet connections which will allow them to directly connect to the internet. How will this cause job loss? Check the software installed on them, they come with both Blockbuster & Netflix which will allow you to get movies directly to your entertainment system. Once this technology makes its way into the lower end products then we can all say goodby to the neighborhood video store as they won’t be able to compete and all those people now employed renting videos will be out of a job.

Of course these high premiums are unsustainable.
They are killing small businesses. They are making the pool of 46 million Americans unable to afford insurance, larger every year which kills 45,000 of them every year.
The lack of common business sense involves boggles the mind. As the premiums go up, more people drop out, so the next year the premiums go up even more, causing… you guessed it more people to drop out. Anyone see a pattern here?
Obama’s right, the premiums rising many times faster than wages is unsustainable.

Cannot believe the news that just broke out..
“Leaked documents reveal GOP plan to use scare tactics to raise money”.
Main stream media was waiting for an opportunity to go to the bottom of GOP political agenda and now they got it.Authenticity of tea party movement and their connections to GOP is very much exposed in the document. what a shame..

I hope this Healthcare Bill passes, its not perfect, but its better than doing nothing,which so many in the GOP seem perfectly happy doing while Americans are losing their jobs,homes,
insurance, yeah just sit back and do nothing and yell socialism, socialism, at people who are trying to help the average american. How to Fix the American economy? End outsourcing of jobs, bring back some of the jobs that were outsourced to our friends in China,India,Mexico,Vietnam,etc, stop allowing companies to hire illegals, stop allowing illegals into the US period. No more govt benefits to illegals. Stop allowing companies to pay one person 20 to 80 million dollars and then laying off some 10,000 workers or not giving anyone a raise for two or three years. Bring the cost of insurance down, cost of prescription drugs down, cost of doctors visit down, bring the average workers wages UP. Unless workers start getting wage increases there will be no substantial economic recovery. Without wage increases no one can spend more money on goods and services, wage increases just for the CEO type folks will get this country nowhere fast, except further into a tanking economy.
America can not survive unless serious changes are made. Right now the average american worker is working longer hours for less money. More Americans are working two and three jobs just to break even. This MUST END. If the US is to survive. IT MUST END. The Greedy corrupt corporate elite must be stopped and brought to justice. NO MORE working all the time and getting breadcrumbs in return.

What they do now have is something that moves us there like dominos (of course it’s just as unsustainable and unacceptable as hiking insurance premiums).
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Right, and quickly I suppose as well. Because passing health care reform is such a cinch. LOL
You realize how much reality you have to dismiss to get us to single payer quickly, right?
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This Senate bill moves us much closer to acheiving single payer (based on O’s quotes including any that you’re referencing -I’ve seen most of them) and when someone as far back as ’03 shows how committed they are to single payer you know what they push is going in that direction.
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that doesn’t make any more politically feasible in the near term. I wish it were, personally. It also dismisses the possibility for innovation in another direction.
Its conjecture, which is nice if you’re a witch and live in a fantasy novel, but… the fact remains we’re not talking about single payer, nor that Obama has said he would prefer single payer but its not politically feasible at this time. He’s right.

I hope this Healthcare Bill passes, its not perfect, but its better than doing nothing,which so many in the GOP seem perfectly happy doing while Americans are losing their jobs,homes,
insurance, yeah just sit back and do nothing and yell socialism, socialism, at people who are trying to help the average american.
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I agree. Nice post, Larry. Bunning held up unemployment payments. These crazy people just don’t care. Its scorched earth and fearmonger 24/7 to make up for the fact they have no solutions. Just greed and lust and fear.

Its conjecture, which is nice if you’re a witch and live in a fantasy novel, but… the fact remains we’re not talking about single payer, nor that Obama has said he would prefer single payer but its not politically feasible at this time. He’s right.
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Wow first people who don’t agree with you are stupid, now delusional.
I am not saying that Obama and his party ARE NOW passing single payer. I am saying they are setting up structures for it to occur and without a legislative push.
Obama said in his own quotes that your posts referenced- employment based insurance was the biggest obstacle HE said to the transition to single payer.
This Senate bill restructures that. Show me where it doesn’t. It’s the biggest things your posts have been cheering about regarding this bill, getting insurance off the back of your business.
It’s not fantasy nor does it take a genius I certainly am not one. But I have eyes and a working brain to look around and see a few things.
This bill does not significantly address healthcare costs but it does greatly increase the gov’t (US taxpayer) role in paying for them through subsidies or in full. It does not pursue any other means to address healthcare besides gov’t intervention to ensure insurance coverage. That was what Obama in the quotes your posts pointed to said was his own first step towards single payer.
It’s really not about getting anything more than this foot in the door right now to force it open a little more.
1/3 of health insurance in the US before this bill goes through is paid for by the US taxpayers (Medicare, Medicaid, SChip) and those things have already shown themselves to be unsustainable. This bill will greatly increase that burden. Even some of the states are looking at how to cut back on these insurance benefits because they are going bankrupt. The gov’t in these programs already grossly underpays for services and is looking to cut back even more. I’ve already gone into the ripple effect (that involves no legislation) of that on private insurance and healthcare industries in earlier posts if they haven’t been deleted you can see them.
Who would have thought 40 years ago that the UAW would own GM or Chrysler and that the federal gov’t would make sure they were given that ownership ahead of legitimate stockholders like pension/mutual funds.

This Senate bill restructures that. Show me where it doesn’t.
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Actually, show me where it does.
I do want it to go that way, yes. Many conservatives do, too. Read Charles Krauthammer. But we’re not there yet.
Going that route doesn’t mean single payer follows. Though I certainly hope it does.
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it does greatly increase the gov’t (US taxpayer) role in paying for them through subsidies or in full. It does not pursue any other means to address healthcare besides gov’t intervention to ensure insurance coverage. That was what Obama in the quotes your posts pointed to said was his own first step towards single payer.
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This is completely false. It addresses things besides subsidies to expand coverage. See the pilot programs, community health centers, Medicare fraud provisions, insurance reforms, prevention and so on. Read Testing, Testing by Atul Gawande. Read the bill!
You appear to be completely unfamiliar with the actual bill or proposal. Sorry to have wasted both of our time.

ChicagoBob Said: “OH you who rewrite history. When Obama came into office he yelled CRISIS CRISIS every day and spooked everyone with the bully pulpit. WELL he got his wish we ALL got spooked pulled back and you have 60 million under employed and a president who doesnt have a CLUE about business.”
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LMAO! So, the current financial crisis was caused by President Obama (even before he became president)…hehehehe! Good God “Bobby”, where do you come up with your whacko economics?… hehehe!
OK Bobby, new homework assignment for you (LOL… let’s see if you’ll at least come close with this one).
Question # 1–> What is the National Bureau of Economic Research?
Question # 2–> Why did the National Bureau of Economic Research DECLARE, in December 2008, that the current recession began in December 2007?
Here’s a “clue” for question # 2 ChicagoBob…LOL… the current recession (which, according to the NBER, started in December 2007), didn’t “start” because of Obama (during that time period)… LOL.

Mr. Obama’s fiscal policies have taken the concept of “unsustainable” to a new level. I fear a backlash…

On a lighter note, The Citizen’s Posse is having an event built around the concept of a citizen’s arrest of the insurance lobby industry in DC.
“The insurance industry’s lobby front group is back in DC to defend their criminal health care system and plot to kill health reform. Reform groups are gathering a citizen’s posse to hold them accountable for their crimes against Americans’ health — and make sure Congress passes reform now.
We need Congress to listen to us, not the insurance companies. We won’t allow another year of 45,000 deaths and a million bankruptcies. Our health and our future are too important to let the insurance giants continue with business as usual.”
check it out. I think many of us are sick of the insurance lobby bullying Congress and playing its dirty tricks on the citizenry.

Most people who are the most enthusiastic about single payer really don’t fully understand what they are asking for. Most simply think it’s what we have now but everyone will get to use it because they can’t in an ongoing way now. They look at chart and graphs and read the progressive only info analyzing that international info. Some (unfortunately quite a lot having listened at length to my progressive friends) actually call it free. You know like people did in the 90′s about the great free college tuition in CA (you can see CA fiscally now).
As for experiencing those single payer systems first hand and comparing facilities and care it’s pure conjecture for most. I have been uninsured here and seen first hand facilities in Russia (a country with the population closest to ours) as well as the UK (another one of the larger countries with single payer). I have spoken at length with friends actually living in those countries like France and Canada (two of the other most populous single payer). It is not the same. The care in the US is way better. Even for major medical which can bankrupt you here. There you may only get things to treat your symptoms but not cure your disease and since it is gov’t run unless you go out of country (which will bankrupt you there) there is no timely recourse. Ours is by far not perfect, needs some serious reforms especially addressing medical inflation, but it currently is really better than anything else out there for 300 million people.

Have fun.
Posted by: GO | Mar 5, 2010 9:01:54 AM
thanks. And while your post makes sense and makes clear your anti-government sentiment, it doesn’t acknowledge that in fact while you may have objections to the bill and government involvement in health care, the original statement made by another commenter was false– which was the point. And single payer isn’t on the table, at least not yet, and its unlikely it will be on the table during President Obama’s term as its politically unfeasible here. Nor is dismantling the private industry, particularly when it comes to delivery.
Interesting tidbit about progressives: Alan Grayson is popular in his district, even among Republicans. When asked to comment on it, he said,
“People like a Congressman with guts. They want someone who works hard, pays attention, and gets things done. For goodness sake, we increased federal competitive grants in this district by 98% in our first year. That extra $100 million benefits Republicans, Independents and Democrats equally. People of every political persuasion want to see action to help solve their problems, and that’s what they’re seeing from us.”
I agree. Republicans don’t accomplish anything.

Most people who are the most enthusiastic about single payer really don’t fully understand what they are asking for.
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I think that can be said for those debating across the spectrum. LOL. I have two employees who claim they’re going Galt to Canada if health care reform passes.
LOL. High information voters are not what most Americans are, which is why hearing so many people mindlessly repeat the insurance industry’s talking points is unfortunate to me.

Ours is by far not perfect, needs some serious reforms especially addressing medical inflation, but it currently is really better than anything else out there for 300 million people.
Posted by: GO | Mar 5, 2010 8:13:12 AM
I have close friends who live in Japan, France, Italy, Ireland, Sweden, Australia and Canada– and they think we’re crazy. While our medical care is the best in the world for the rich that is not true as you move into the lower middle class and poverty.
Also, I note that many of you think the single payer is necessarily what must follow from the reforms. Just on my own, I can think of five different directions it could go. Personally, I don’t underestimate American ingenuity once the status quo gets a good shake. Everyone is so stuck in their ruts. In the mean time, insuring more people is the humane thing to do.

Nsurance premiums are established to cover the costs of the covered services, and are approved by state insurans commissioners. Anyone who believes that any of those costs will be reduced by a single penny under a government program is deranged, and will in time become very disappointed. Their children will be even more disappointed.

progressive mama wrote: “We won’t allow another year of 45,000 deaths and a million bankruptcies.”
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No we won’t allow another year, but looks like the Democrats will allow another 3-4 years however. You gotta collect a whole lot of taxes before allowing the benefits to kick in…. otherwise you can’t make the funny number come in under the magical $1 trillion dollars cost and you sure can make it deficit neutral. Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac accounting at its best.

but looks like the Democrats will allow another 3-4 years however.
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Actually, there are several interim measures in the bill that will extend coverage to some uninsureds during those years– extension of COBRA, temporary high risk pools, allowing children up to age 27 stay on their parents’ policy, banning recision immediately, disallowing denial for pre-existing condition for children 19 y.o. and younger immediately… and so on.
Also, that “another year” quote was from the Citizen’s Posse, it didn’t originate with me. I agree with it but would have worded it differently as I realize start-ups take time– to get the exchanges up and running properly, etc, etc.

Unbelievable… the next generation of non-producers in the making.
Posted by: gk | Mar 5, 2010 10:24:03 PM
On that one, I cannot disagree.

Why doesn’t Obama make the statement “this clearly is unacceptable and unsustainable” to the environmentalists who are also responsible for damaging the economy. With their legislative lobby, power in the white house, and influence with the Democrats, Obama is propping them, allowing them to ruin our economy. So while Obama watches the economy downspiral he has the audacity to rebuke the health care industry? When is Obama going to learn, it’s not health care that is on the top of America’s priorities, it’s JOBS!

I know many self-employed people (like me) in Canada, UK, France, Sweden, Norway, Denmark, Italy, New Zealand, Australia – they all pay just a few percent of their income for a very satisfactory health care system, with the option for very affordable private insurance supplementation (for co-pays that are very reasonable because of regulation). They think the US is barbaric when they hear our stories.
I want what they have. After 4 decades of being insured, I just had to cancel my health insurance because in these troubled times, after the latest increase it would be 53% of my net income after business deductions (before taxes). The increases in premiums for me over the past few years by Celtic have been 30% to 34%. Between the high deductible forced on me by earlier rate increases and the cherry-picking they do after the deductible – I might as well be uninsured, I’ll be bankrupt if I get sick anyway.