‘What Would You Do If a Gay or Lesbian Were In Your Shower?’ and Other Pentagon Survey Questions
Email“If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are assigned to bathroom facilities with an open bay shower that someone you believe to be a gay or lesbian Service member also used, which are you most likely to do? Mark 1.”
So asks the Pentagon survey of 400,000 non-deployed active troops regarding the pending repeal of the “Don’t Ask/Don’t Tell” ban on gays and lesbians serving openly in the military.
The choices:
“Take no action;
“Use the shower at a different time than the Service member I thought to be gay or lesbian;
“Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves;
“Talk to a chaplain, mentor, or leader about how to handle the situation;
“Talk to a leader to see if I had other options;
“Something else;
“Don’t know.”
The advocacy group Servicemembers United has obtained a copy of the Pentagon survey, which can be read HERE. And its members don’t like it.
Alexander Nicholson, executive director of Servicemembers United and a former Army interrogator discharged under DADT, says in a statement that it will be “safe for gay and lesbian troops to participate in this survey” but “it is simply impossible to imagine a survey with such derogatory and insulting wording, assumptions, and insinuations going out about any other minority group in the military.”
Nicholson says the survey “stokes the fires of homophobia by its very design and will only make the Pentagon’s responsibility to subdue homophobia as part of this inevitable policy change even harder.”
Interestingly, though the White House has repeatedly declared that DADT will be repealed — and the only question is when that will happen — the survey repeatedly phrases its questions in terms of “if” the repeal happens.
Another question asks troops “If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you had onbase housing and a gay or lesbian Service member was living with a same sex partner onbase, what would you most likely do?” Options range from “I would get to know them like any other neighbors” to “I would probably move offbase.”
Yet another asks, if DADT is repealed “and a gay or lesbian Service member attended a military social function with a same sex partner, which are you most likely to do?” With options ranging from “Continue to attend military social functions” to “Stop attending military social functions.”
I’ve asked the Pentagon to respond, and I’ve asked Nicholson to explain which questions he found most biased and derogatory, and I’ll be updating this blog post when they get back to me.
- Jake Tapper
UPDATE: Servicemembers United got back to me as to its issues with the survey:
• Despite the explanatory statement at the beginning of one section of the survey that “gay or lesbian” and homosexual” are used interchangeably, the group asserts that “it is a well established fact that the use of the term ‘homosexual’ induces bias in survey research. Use of this clinical term is also considered offensive to gays and lesbians.”
• In questions about how the belief that a coworker was gay or lesbian impacted the unit’s morale, the “question and its accompanying answer choices assume and suggest a negative impact on
morale. No options are given to express a belief in a positive impact on morale.”
• The survey says that “Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell” “generally requires that a Service member shall be separated if found to have engaged in, or attempted to engage in, homosexual acts.” The group says that summary of the law is wrong. “Opponents often try to characterize the policy as preventing the open and public performance of homosexual acts, and this summary is in that vein. The biggest problem with the DADT law is that a Service member can be fired for simply saying ‘I’m gay,’ without ever engaging in, or attempting to engage in, a ‘homosexual act.’”
The group believes that summary also “implies that the repeal of this law will result in the open performance of ‘homosexual acts’ on duty and throughout the military,” which it says is not only wrong, but “highly inflammatory.”
• The survey asks how belief that a coworker is gay or lesbian might impact a troop’s or a unit’s readiness? “Impact on readiness is more of an abstract concept that needs to be further operationalized in order to be accurately measured. Not only is this term not sufficiently operationalized, the survey makes no attempt to even define what readiness means.”
• The group says that the question about how repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell might “affect your willingness to recommend to a family member or close friend that he or she join the military?” is “highly offensive and unnecessary. Would such a question every be allowed to be asked about blacks, women, Muslims, Mormons, or any other minority group?”
• The question about how DADT repeal “might affect your military career plans” is one that “has well known bias,” the group says, “because, among other reasons, it offers an opportunity to make a values statement for which the respondent is never accountable. Before the equivalent policy was changed within the armed forces of the United Kingdom, nearly two-thirds of males said they would leave the military. After the policy change was made, however, only one person resigned across the entire force, and even this officer is said to have been ready to retire regardless.”
• The group says questions about sharing a room, berth, or field tent “with someone you believe to be a gay or lesbian Service member” are considered highly inflammatory. “The real atrocity in these questions, which are some of the worse in the entire survey, lies in the answer choices, especially ‘Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves while sharing a room, berth, or field tent.’ The fact that this is even an answer choice legitimizes the completely irrational assumption or fear that gays and lesbians need to be ‘talked to’ about their behavior and conduct, lest they misbehave by default. Also the suggestion that someone may need to ‘talk to a chaplain, mentor, or leader about how to handle the situation’ is highly offensive. No survey would ever be allowed to get away with suggesting or implying such things about any other minority.”
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This looks like a personality test – they are trying to find out if the average soldier has such an inflated view of themselves that they think a gay or lesbian would hit on them,
Posted by: Flash Override | July 9, 2010, 1:00 pm 1:00 pm
I served with members that I knew were homosexual ( that should cover the “gay and lesbian”tags), and at the end of the day or evening, Our planes were launched, the wounded and dead recovered, class “A” explosives delivered, and thats all that should matter…Complete the mission assigned…and get some rest and go about it again the next day
Jake your energy would be better used in reporting the Eric Holder, Black Panther party, federal investigation than on this nonsense…Its time to drop your radical left wing reporting and be a real journalist.. that is IF ABC and the whiney Sawyer will let you
Obama VS America
Posted by: Yep I said that | July 9, 2010, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
They probably did something similar, when they first integrated the military housing.
Basically, you have leaders who don’t know how to deal with conflict internally, only externally.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | July 9, 2010, 1:17 pm 1:17 pm
Well said, Mr. Yep-I-Said-that.
I won’t comment about the survey itself, but I can say that these kinds of questions need to be asked publicly and the healthiest answers agreed upon by the American people before we tumble into a military quagmire of our own impetuousness, and hurt a lot of people no matter what their leanings.
My answer would have been “Discuss how we expect each other to behave and conduct ourselves,” because indeed that is exactly the national conversation that must happen at this point.
We cannot overturn taboo that has been civilizationally plowed through our wiring without getting really clear about what is expected from every soldier in this New Contract.
My fantasy Commission that would write the Constitution for this New Contract would have to include at least one Cheney.
(Lord, guide this nation now, ignite us with compassion and good sense.)
Posted by: Carol | July 9, 2010, 1:24 pm 1:24 pm
Feeling uncomfortable when taking a shower near someone who may find you sexually attractive isn’t saying anything derogatory against that person. It isn’t a reason to keep gay people from being able to serve openly in the military, either.
The better the Pentagon understands what they’re dealing with when it comes to the reactions of service members, the better the transition will be.
Posted by: MayBee | July 9, 2010, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm
Yep, I think you are confusing the 5 or 10 people who call themselves “new BPP” with the ACTUAL Black Panther Party.
What is there to “investigate” about a charge so silly that even the Bush justice dept thought so weak they refused to file criminal charges? (instead a civil case was filed, so they could avoid charges of misconduct)
Posted by: Flash Override | July 9, 2010, 1:27 pm 1:27 pm
I think the questions need to be asked. This isn’t like intregrating races. Ask yourself this, if your open bay shower allowed the opposite sex, how would you react? Why? For a lot of people the reason why they would have a problem with it is because of sexual attraction. So what is the difference in saying how would you react to someone of the same sex who finds someone of your sex attractive? If men had to shower with women, it doesn’t mean that all the men will hit on the women. Or all the women will hit on the men. But the same uncomfort that men and women would feel sharing a shower might be felt with same sex if they knew that other person was gay. I’m not saying this is something that can’t be overcome, but there is a very real comfort problem that needs to be addressed and until the military surveys it’s people it has no idea how big of problem this could be.
Posted by: TLS | July 9, 2010, 1:28 pm 1:28 pm
It does seem pretty silly, when we’re spending 36% of our budget on current military and anouther 18% on past military adventures, to be wasting time and money on this. (45% and 25% if you don’t include social security on budget)
Posted by: Flash Override | July 9, 2010, 1:30 pm 1:30 pm
as a man i have no problem taking showers with lesbians….frankly i dont care what sexual preference anyone is.no special treatment needs to be afforded but neither should discrimination. i would, however, leave it for the generals to decide as we are taliking about life and death.
Posted by: catman | July 9, 2010, 1:34 pm 1:34 pm
If it does not matter about sexual orientation, let the men and women take their showers together also
Posted by: O Mullens | July 9, 2010, 1:36 pm 1:36 pm
If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are assigned to bathroom facilities with an open bay shower that someone you believe to be Rahm Emanuel also used, which are you most likely to do?
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn | July 9, 2010, 1:49 pm 1:49 pm
Stupid question. With or without DADT, this situation would occur. But at least with the repeal, you’d know as opposed to believing, which isn’t based on the recognition of the factual or certainty. There’s a huge difference between believing someone is gay and knowing it for a fact. One is based on suspicion, while the other on an open identification system.
Posted by: jane | July 9, 2010, 1:56 pm 1:56 pm
What is there to “investigate” about a charge so silly that even the Bush justice dept thought so weak they refused to file criminal charges? (instead a civil case was filed, so they could avoid charges of misconduct)
Posted by: Flash Override
—————————————-
must be something there to investigate, a federal investigation has been launched.. and covered up by ABC CBS and NBC
Not only does Todd Gaziano (Congressional appointee on the United States Commission on Civil Rights) claim that the 2008 Election Day voter intimidation charge against the Philadelphia New Black Panther Party was ‘open and shut’, but that Deputy Assistant Attorney General Julie Fernandez ordered, ‘Never bring another lawsuit against a black or other national minority, apparently no matter what they do.’
Obama VS America
Posted by: Yep I said that | July 9, 2010, 2:14 pm 2:14 pm
Did Rahm Emanuel make up that question?
Posted by: kyle | July 9, 2010, 2:28 pm 2:28 pm
from Foxnews
rgrissom
Washington
I believe the goal of Obama and the Democratic party is to give amnesty to all illegal aliens, then give them citizenship which includes the right to vote. The Dems are NOT interested in what is good for the country but only power and re-election. If they are successful locking up blocks of voters (African Americans, Latino/Hispanic, union, liberals, etc.) then the rest of us, including the economy, Democracy, Capitalism are dead. We’ll be ruled by a few shepherds that control a majority of the sheep and the rest of us won’t matter one bit.
Friday, July 09, 2010 at 11:00 AM
Posted by: talk from sf | July 9, 2010, 2:42 pm 2:42 pm
Gay men and straight men ALREADY shower together in the military. Gay women and straight women ALREADY shower together in the military. This is a non-issue that has been turned into an issue just so that politicians can eventually vote down the repeal of DADT.
Posted by: Don | July 9, 2010, 2:53 pm 2:53 pm
Now thats real important, they already doing it in the military. How about some real news, oil spill, DOJ telling lawyers not to prosecude black on white crime, Berwick appointed to run the new government healthcare plus Medicare and Medicaid.
Posted by: Lizzie | July 9, 2010, 3:05 pm 3:05 pm
Because half of those stories aren’t real news, Lizzie. They are Fox news.
Posted by: Don | July 9, 2010, 3:13 pm 3:13 pm
Stunning journalism!
Posted by: Scott | July 9, 2010, 3:58 pm 3:58 pm
The survey seems to presume that people in our society don’t have a clue how to say no to sex if they don’t have their clothes on. That is a pretty stupid premise for someone that is supposed to be trained to live under battle conditions. Maybe they should make a week’s attendance at a nudist camp part of basic training.
Posted by: GeoOT | July 9, 2010, 4:28 pm 4:28 pm
Rahm just keeps on yelling .. when confronted with this situation.. the shower equivalent of driving home a point while your lunch associate is picking at a salad.
Posted by: Dontget818 | July 9, 2010, 4:36 pm 4:36 pm
“What Would You Do If a Gay or Lesbian Were In Your Shower?” – ABC News
Huuummmm . . . . .
Kinda depends on if I was Gay or a Lesbian now doesn’t it?
: o )
Posted by: Noz | July 9, 2010, 4:43 pm 4:43 pm
Respectfully…LEAVE….JUST AS IF THE OPPOSITE WAS TO JUMP IN THE SHOWER….
Posted by: Parallex View | July 9, 2010, 5:06 pm 5:06 pm
Soldiers are supposed to follow their Commander in Chief’s orders. Since when did we start asking them if they want to follow them or not? Since we wanted to ensure they gave negative answers?
Posted by: ryan | July 9, 2010, 5:11 pm 5:11 pm
And every time ABC covers Malia’s braces and not the DOJ Black Panther connection, they burrow deeper into Obama’s pocket and lie to us a little more.
Posted by: CLN | July 9, 2010, 5:19 pm 5:19 pm
Wow, as a social science researcher who often uses surveys, the quality of these questions astonishes me. Anyone who chooses to make decisions with information that results from questions like this should be ashamed.
Posted by: Eval | July 9, 2010, 5:29 pm 5:29 pm
There is this thing called “Sexual Assualt” – If they want equal rights, they get them all the way around. If a gay man came on to me or touched me in any way I felt was unapproptiate – off to jail and a hearing. Oh, and yes it would make me feel uncomfortable because I would have no way of knowing which role the man likes or is playing in his gay relationship.
Posted by: Keepitclean | July 9, 2010, 5:37 pm 5:37 pm
Why does everyone always ask straight men if they would feel uncomfortable, there are alot of “Normal-phobic” males & females out there who are doing a heck of alot to hide the ways they feel about straight people, but failing badly because of how loud they scream about people different than them exercising their right to “Free Speech”. Just because someone doesn’t agree with a certain way of living does not make them “discriminitory” simply truthful, free and their own person – kind of like the ones yelling about them. “The more you must scream, the weaker your dream”
Posted by: Keepitclean | July 9, 2010, 5:47 pm 5:47 pm
When I was in the Army in the late 60′s and early 70′s everybody knew who was gay and didn’t care. Nobody acted any different. It was a non issue. These are well trained macho fighters, yet they can’t tell someone no, they are not interested without freaking out, please. This is blown way out of proportion.
Posted by: Chet | July 9, 2010, 6:35 pm 6:35 pm
Homosexual is an insult and derogatory?? Like gay and lesbian is not? LOL
Posted by: Heaterman | July 9, 2010, 6:40 pm 6:40 pm
Imagine the response that such a survey would have garnered in 1948 from white soldiers about serving with black soldiers; particularly asking questions about showering together! Of course, the response would have been overwhelmingly negative. President Truman had the good sense to simply order that the armed services be desegregated. In effect, he ordered them to get over it. This was done at a time when black and whites had separate water fountains and restrooms in much of the country. This is the kind of courage and direction that’s needed now and is long overdue.
Posted by: Ostrc | July 9, 2010, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm
i have a quick solution to the problem. formulate a new rule that all members of the military must be at least 70 years of age and that they had to serve in the nude. there would be no problems in the showers, the taliban and al queda would laugh themselves to death, the war would be over and everyone could come home. there would be no problem with budgeting health care under the new bill the soldiers would all die of heart attacks. the savings on salaries and medicare could be used to pay off the deficit. further the commander-in-chief and pentagon would be to embarrassed to claim any connection to the military and those branches of government could be abandoned. think of that savings.
just a thought
Posted by: Archie Dicksion | July 9, 2010, 9:19 pm 9:19 pm
I’m sitting here with tears in my eyes reading this article. I’m so tired of the hate just for wanting to be “ME”. I’m not in the military, but to subject lesbians and gays to this kind of behavior is absolutely ridiculous. Where are people’s hearts anymore? I’m a lesbian and it kills me inside for people to hate me for just being me. I’m not a pervert. I’m not on drugs. I don’t go around having orgies or one night stands with females. I’m just a college graduate living a simple life, engaged to a beautiful woman, that happens to be attracted to females.
WE don’t want nor have interest in every male or female that we see. Why is this so hard to understand? All we want, just like everyone else, is LOVE and ACCEPTANCE. That’s it. And it hurts because people want to make you feel like you’re nothing or you’re the evil scum on the Earth. It really hurts and breaks my heart.
Posted by: KD | July 9, 2010, 10:23 pm 10:23 pm
What if President Truman asked these stupid questions before he integrated the military in 1948 with whites and blacks? Obama needs to lead and the military needs to take orders. I will never vote Republican, but Democrats are too afraid to do the right thing. All of NATO allows gay soldiers, except the United States and Islamic Turkey. Do you stand with the Muslims or with Western ideals of democracy? Military is afraid of gays, so how can they not cower at Islam extremists?
Posted by: Georgia Democrat | July 9, 2010, 10:33 pm 10:33 pm
“”What Would You Do If a Gay or Lesbian Were In Your Shower?” – ABC News”
.
I’d be more worried about a “progressive” in my shower, cause I know they would be too busy reading Ezra Klein so they could post something into this blog rather than protecting my back.
Posted by: gk | July 9, 2010, 10:55 pm 10:55 pm
I would enter the shower and take a shower like normal. Just because I am in the shower with a woman who is a lesbian does not mean anything sexual in this situation. Being a homosexual DOES NOT mean the person is a sexual deviant, that they are sexually immoral, or that they want to have sex with every person of the same sex they meet. Does every straight person want to have sex with every person of the opposite sex they meet? No… I would enter the shower without a second thought, the other persons sexual preference is none of my business, I am just there to take a shower.
Posted by: SamanthaB | July 9, 2010, 11:50 pm 11:50 pm
I did shower with blacks and gays in the 40′s and 50′s and would’ve welcomed the opportunity to have showered with lesbians….but alas, no luck. Backward thinking I guess. In any case, we went blissfully on with our lives and grew up with our black, gay and lesbian friends. There was more stigma back then to be sure, and some of our gay friends didn’t come out til much later, but no matter….life went on. One of my friends did not really understand that he was gay until we all visited a house of ill-repute together and out of the 5 of us, he was the only one who couldn’t perform. It was his awakening and all of our friendships held. We had a lot of respect for one another in those days. I’m 74 now and could write a book about the good ole days but I fear that they’ll never return…another alas.
Posted by: Richard Sargent | July 10, 2010, 12:52 am 12:52 am
“If Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell is repealed and you are assigned to bathroom facilities with an open bay shower that someone you believe to be Robert Gibbs or Helen Thomas also used, which are you most likely to do? Mark 1
Posted by: MM | July 10, 2010, 1:21 am 1:21 am
No one has a right to serve… openly homosexual individuals are only one of many groups excluded from service…
The only appropriate question is will adding openly homosexuals to the mix add or detract from mission capability/accomplishment…
Social engineering has been very burdensome to military leadership, distracting their attention from mission accomplishment… Adding open homosexuals to the mix will further add to that burden… detracting from mission capability/accomplishment.
The net result from homosexuals serving openly will be negative… so why do it?
Posted by: Quo Warranto? | July 10, 2010, 2:36 am 2:36 am
If you like the same sex person in the shower.. a lot.. you will have to check state and local laws.. to see if you can legally marry them.
Posted by: Dontget818 | July 10, 2010, 7:31 am 7:31 am
Been there, done that. We had three, “sexually different” soldiers in our unit, and to answer the question, “I would continue taking my shower and enjoy the chance to get the grime off.”. These three were the top of the brave, excellent marksmen, and I would not think twice about any of them covering my back in a tense situation. No one I knew voiced any opposition or had any qualms about their distinctions; race was a much more complex issue.
Posted by: clever bob | July 10, 2010, 8:35 am 8:35 am
When you get beyond the Social Experiment in Progress™ this repeal of DADT issue is a real problem for the military, thus the Pentagon Survey.
Listen folks, homosexuals are here to stay and they should not be persecuted. We should all learn to live with it. That said, homosexuality is a deviant behavior. Regardless, heterosexuals should treat them with the dignity any human deserves but they don’t have to like them. The media doesn’t help by trying to “normalize” homosexuality. Everyone knows it isn’t normal. So it’s just fine if your son or daughter doesn’t want to join the military because they don’t want to shower with homosexuals. I think the military is looking at what the real outcome would be if DADT was repealed. They don’t really care about the Social Experiment in Progress™ and that’s as it should be.
Posted by: Noz | July 10, 2010, 9:22 am 9:22 am
This shower nonesense is being blown out of proportion. Many shower already and many already know who is or is not a homosexual. The members of the forces are already handling it. When someone has your back in war, you do not care if he is heterosexual or homosexual or anything else black white, latino, etc. Our soldiers know how to handle any unusual circumstances and do not need someone to make up some rules. They are already fighting side by side and when a lesbian gets killed, is she any less than a soldier or is a homosexual any less than a soldier? No. They love their country as strongly as anyone else or they would not be in the service.
Posted by: talmag | July 10, 2010, 9:46 am 9:46 am
They love their country as strongly as anyone else or they would not be in the service.
Posted by: talmag | Jul 10, 2010 9:46:54 AM
Not completely accurate. Ft. Hood ring a bell?
Plus some join as an agreement for paid education. They may not necessarily have the patriotic feelings you describe.
Posted by: MM | July 10, 2010, 11:55 am 11:55 am
I fail to see the point of the survey. I thought in the military you were required to follow orders without challenge and adapt to rigorous and dangerous environments. Suddenly there’s now concern about the uncomfortable feelings service people could experience in working or showering with gays or lesbians. No doubt hetero and homosexuals have been participating together in the military since the days of General Washington. . .
Posted by: jane | July 10, 2010, 12:17 pm 12:17 pm
Agree that gays will serve one way or another, and they deserve equal protection and dignified treatment as do all other people. That said, this “advocacy group” (advocating what, exactly?) has made a gross strategic error in protesting this survey. Their error has made implementing open gay service far more difficult and problematic. They have created a problem which will now turn into another obstacle. “Servicemen United”, or whoever they are, have done a great disservice to gays who are simply interested in continuing to serve.
Their “protest” here is not motivated by an honest desire to improve conditions for gay servicemen. It is ideologically motivated agitation.
“Readiness is an abstract concept?” Are they nuts? A real soldier, gay or straight, would never make such a statement. This kind of statement would never come out of the mouth of a military person. Military readiness has concrete, material and consequential ramifications in the real, actual world, with implications for limbs, flesh, and life itself. Specific criteria determine how readiness is measured within each military specialty. Each soldier knows his own. He knows what it means, even if the gay lobby is confused by it. It is only “abstract” in the minds of political Washington advocates who have an agenda unrelated to military capabilities.
This little group here has played into all the problems people foresaw when they first denied repealing DADT. Little “direct action” or “advocacy” groups would take issue with every little stupid point, and make a federal case out of everything the Pentagon did if it didn’t conform in lockstep to their desires, people said. And look, it’s coming true. Thanks!
Their reaction to the Pentagon survey only convinces the entire military bureaucracy that there will indeed be untold obstacles and legalities to surmount that, in the long run, could very well obstruct and weaken the military’s pursuit of it’s primary — and most important — mission: defending the country. Every single action the Pentagon has to take to implement this will be subject to the scrutiny and tantrums of these special interest groups. Do these people want DADT repealed, or do they just want to agitate? Are they serious about helping gay soldiers, or are they just harassing the military, which some people love to do?
Shut up, and let the survey proceed, boys. Men at work here. They are having to do this at the same time as bringing bodies home, fighting two wars and taking care of the wounded. Some things are more important than your little agenda. Let the grown ups do their jobs, please.
“Homosexual” shows bias? Are they daffy? We will get DADT repealed faster, and with less trouble, if these action groups will pick their battles a little more intelligently. Idiots.
Posted by: phalanx | July 10, 2010, 12:22 pm 12:22 pm
• The group says that the question about how repealing Don’t Ask, Don’t Tell might “affect your willingness to recommend to a family member or close friend that he or she join the military?” is “highly offensive and unnecessary. Would such a question every be allowed to be asked about blacks, women, Muslims, Mormons, or any other minority group?”
========
I could see this argument more if DADT weren’t already offensive to gay people, and if the policy didn’t already codify the military’s ability to treat gay people differently than blacks, women, Muslims, Mormons, or any other minority group.
It isn’t the questionnaire that’s the problem- it’s the policy. But the policy isn’t going to go away just because people chain themselves to the WH fence in protest. The policy will only go away if the military feels like they understand what effect removing the policy will have on the military.
So maybe let the Pentagon ask the questions, get the information, and then the advocacy groups and the rest of us can use that information to convince the Pentagon it’s time to get rid of the discriminatory policy.
Posted by: MayBee | July 10, 2010, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm
“Many shower already and many already know who is or is not a homosexual. The members of the forces are already handling it.” – talmag
So, what you’re saying is DADT is working, don’t repeal it.
Excellent Point.
Posted by: Noz | July 10, 2010, 4:48 pm 4:48 pm
It’s easy to “tell” who’s gay or lesbian: unless they’re practiced liars (which some gays feel constrained to be just to survive in society), the gay men are the ones who don’t talk about their girlfriends and the gay women are the ones who don’t talk about their boyfriends. That’s why most straights already know who in their units are gay.
That’s why DADT is a bad joke. It doesn’t prevent a gay service member’s straight associates from knowing his or her sexual orientation; It only makes the gay person vulnerable to harassment and intimidation because of sexual orientation. A gay person cannot complain to his or her superiors about it because the reason for the harassment cannot be explained. That would be “telling”, and the gay person would likely be expelled from the service under the current ridiculous policy.
Posted by: Lon | July 10, 2010, 5:51 pm 5:51 pm
It is disturbing to me that Gay Organization feel that all people should be excepting of their life style or comfortable around them. Just because they have chosen a gay life style doesn’t make it right or acceptable by everyone.
Does this mean men will be walking around switching engendering a feeling that the American Military is weak?
Here a question for Americans in favor of Don’t Ask Don’t Tell, where in the constitution does it reads gay marriage is constitutional?
They would have never fathom that we are having this conflict and definitely gay marriage or a gay life style would have never been tolerated back then.
What one does in the privacy of their home is their business, SO, STOP PUSHING YOUR DISTORTED LIFE GAY STYLE DOWN OUR THROATS.
It doesn’t mean someone is homophobic because they speak out against homosexuality, IT JUST MEAN THEY DON’T AGREE WITH THE LIFE STYLE OR ARE JUST UNCOMFORTABLE BECAUSE IT GOES AGAINST THE GRAIN OF THE NORMAL SOCIAL ORDER.
THIS COUNRTY HAS AWAYS BEEN STEEPED IN SPRITUAL FAITH NOT PERVERTION. I can’t be openly heterosexual at my work place.
We have gotten to the point where you can’t tell men from women
What if your child, say a girl goes out on a date with what she think is the opposite sex and it turns out to be a girl dressed like a boy…………
Posted by: darkshaft | July 11, 2010, 1:57 am 1:57 am
Imagine if back in the day they put out a survey regarding integrating Blacks? Are you comfortable sleeping in the same room with Blacks? Would you leave your wallet lying around? Or when women were being considered for combat roles? How would you handle PMS?
This survey is just as prejudicial.
Posted by: JT | July 11, 2010, 6:53 am 6:53 am
Why should gays or lesbians be treated differently than others, whether in the military or in civilian life? And why do gays and lesbians feel the need to broadcast their sexuality?
Posted by: Sigmonde | July 11, 2010, 10:23 am 10:23 am
I have bee in the military for the last 25 yrs and have never been assigned a shower. You go to what ever showers are available and take your shower. Second I am gay and most of my unit knew it and had on problem showering with me in there or hanging out together on a Friday nights having a few beers.
Posted by: Gregg | July 12, 2010, 12:46 pm 12:46 pm
I have to tell you reading these slur’s and misrepusentations of gay people is both insulting and a disgrace by the so called normal society. Because we are gay or lesbian doesn’t mean that we are deviate’s, we choose this lifestyle LOL, we no more choose our lifestyle than any heterosexual person chooses to be straight. If you are straight and think we choose the lifestyle, try it yourself and see if you can make yourself gay. We want to be part of our country just like anyone other American and that is our right as a US Citizen. As Mr. Darkshaft shows the venomous language and mentality that “the normal social order” has to offer. Blank minded individuals who feel that they are the only normal in our society. Normal isn’t judging or putting others down due to a lifestyle that can’t be understood by the “Normal Society”. I feel sorry for him. Thank goodness I am not normal if his thoughts are of the norm. We are American’s and we have the right to fight, and die for our country, and to protect all Americans including the norm.
Posted by: Another Gay Man | July 14, 2010, 1:05 pm 1:05 pm
“It is disturbing to me that Gay Organization feel that all people should be excepting of their life style or comfortable around them.”
People, just say “No” to homeschooling.
Posted by: EMT420 | July 20, 2010, 9:36 am 9:36 am
I’d do what I do now in our health club locker room.
We stand around half or completely naked, discussing the latest sports results etc, and couldn’t care less who is gay or str8. and we have plenty of members in the club who admit they are gay. Rainbow rings, bumper stickers, discussions about their boyfriend etc
So much of the animosity against gay people ocmes from people who are secretly gay.
And fear that if they end up showering with gay people around, their organ will become the flag of truth.
Never fails. Its almsot always those who are secretly gay, or have issues, who are desperate to hide the truth about themselves. Lest THEY be outed.
While us str8 guys and our gay friends don’t have any issues.
BTW, out of all the 26 or so Nato countries, only the USA and ISLAMIC turkey force gays into a closet of shame and fear.
An evil against the people who are willing to die to save their comrades if necessary, and defend a country which in many ways makes them a pariah in our society.
But that is changing.
Posted by: steve in MD | August 2, 2010, 2:40 am 2:40 am
Posted by darkshaft: “It is disturbing to me that Gay Organization feel that all people should be excepting of their life style or comfortable around them. Just because they have chosen a gay life style doesn’t make it right or acceptable by everyone. ”
Did you mean accepting? People do not choose to be gay or lesbians anymore than people choose to be tall or short or have blue or brown eyes, red or black hair ~ they are born that way.
It is human nature to want to fit in with the norm; common logic tells me, only a masochist would choose to become gay or lesbian.
There are exceptions; such as children who were sexually abused, who might choose a gay/lesbian lifestyle and some teens and adults may experiment; but the majority of gays/lesbians are indeed born such.
You do not need to accept this anymore than you need to accept when a baby is born with a physical or mental handicap.
When you bring your religious beliefs into the discussion, remember the command to Love your neighbor, which Jesus said was “like the first” (love God).
Posted by: Mary | August 6, 2010, 5:58 pm 5:58 pm
I am not paranoid of gay folks. They already shower with many straight people in civilian gyms. So what would I do? I would just shower, mind my own business as they mind theirs, what is the big deal? Stop acting like we are in kindergarten. These questions the way they are worded make it sound scary. I have showered with gays before and survived! You will too, trust me.
Posted by: Brian | August 14, 2010, 11:08 pm 11:08 pm
GeoOT-right on! This is the same military that is supposed to defend us and they are so afraid of the naked gay guy or gal next to them in the shower!
Posted by: James | August 14, 2010, 11:17 pm 11:17 pm
What would you do if you are gay and a straight man or woman were in your shower? And other Pentagon Survey Questions. How ridiculous is that? What would you do if a red haired person was in your shower? How about an Asian red hair person? How about a left handed person? 100 years from now we will look back at this like we look back at women in sports, blacks in the military, etc. and think to ourselves – how stupid we were then!!!
Posted by: Arthur J. | August 14, 2010, 11:43 pm 11:43 pm
I spent 20 years in the Air Force. I knew and worked with a lot of gay and lesbians. I never had a problem with them and I don’t recall anyone else having a problem with the. As far as we were concerned, they were just like the rest of us. We were all friends and very close knit like any military unit should be. I can’t honestly see what the big deal is and why someone would be compelled to turn anyone in. As long as everyone did their jobs, no one cared anything about your orientation, race, religion and so forth. Let’s get these homophobic old folks out of the higher echelons and press on with duty.
Posted by: Doogie | August 16, 2010, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
in the 70′s i roomed with a gay soilder on base over seas. never had a better,cleaner,more courtious bunkmate all the time i was in the service… no problem with gays in uniform.not woried about sexuality when the bullets are flying!
Posted by: frank | November 13, 2010, 12:14 am 12:14 am
They need seperate housing for gay males and lesbian females.
Posted by: JC | December 12, 2010, 6:02 am 6:02 am