Comments on: Russian White House Correspondent blames American freedoms for rampages of insane gunmen

By: Alyson

Alyson — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 22:33:22 +0000

“you are perfectly free to do all those uncivil things you listed, and it’s a good thing you are.” –Fascist H.
We don’t disagree on the importance of freedom, but being free to do something is an entirely different thing than that something being productive or right or fair-minded or honest or even good for one’s overall wellness, balance and happiness, let alone good for the community and country. Moreover the freedom to tell you I hope your wife feeds you unhealthy foods and you die doesn’t undercut the freedom for another to say, wow, that isn’t very productive and doesn’t really move the food debate along. If we stay there we won’t find that perhaps we agree government needs to get out of the food business, at least partially, though we may view it from different perspectives, mine being from the sustainable food movement angle (i.e. stop propping up the Big Fake Food industry with subsidies, and stop many of the price supports, loans and deficiency payments that benefit only about 3000 farmers of corn and soy and cost us tons of money, and aren’t all that good for the environment) and possibly yours from the “I want to eat s’mores and resent that the government wants to promote nutritious lunches because I think that has something or another to do with a nanny state” (you sound more sensible that but I’m using a Palinesque example). Then perhaps you’d acknowledge wanting smaller gov’t and being fine with getting gov’t out of the Big Food promotion and propping up business, and perhaps I’d acknowledge that I don’t see why the government should tell people what to eat (since the USDA nutrition guidelines are problematic, the truth is they’re not that good at it) but that people ought to be able to push for real food Even further, maybe we both agree we want accurate labels on food sold in stores and clean, unharmful water and basic regulations, but not ones that prevent me from getting raw milk and game from hunting and wild fish and you getting whatever it is you want. And maybe we could talk about that if we weren’t too busy dreaming up insults to sling at the other because we believe something or many things that the other does not or vice versa.
Just a thought.
Additionally, harping on civil discourse is more politically savvy than doing the opposite. (I remember seeing a video clip somewhere of Republican after Republican talking about their desire for “adult conversations” and the right ate that up and parroted it… what, praytell, were they referring to?”).
I don’t see telling people to cool down enough to check in with logic as a bad thing. Politics can get overemotional and mudslinging and failing to hear each other out can become unproductive.

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:25:45 +0000

Close paren should be after “threat”…

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 05:24:41 +0000

Sorry–the post immediately before my 11:53 got dropped, making the reference to Cronkite incomprehensible, but never mind.
The larger point was that (with the exception) of the death threat, you are perfectly free to do all those uncivil things you listed, and it’s a good thing you are. If things were more civil back in some more genteel pre-internet era, that didn’t prevent the shootings of JFK, MLK, RFK, Malcolm X, George Wallace or Ronald Reagan, nor the attempted shootings of Gerald Ford. Not one of those events spurred a call for greater civility in our political discourse. Any such call would, in the end, have made no more difference than will the exquisitely goofy one we are hearing today.
But in the near term we will be subject to constant carping and hand-wringing by the usual scolds.

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:53:41 +0000

Close quotes after “Cronkite.”
And i suppose you are indeed not free to make a death threat against me (if it is a credible one), but you’re certainly at liberty to express the hope that one of my grandkids will die of AIDS in the interest of cosmic justice (Nina Totenberg), or that my wife feeds me all sorts of unhealthy food so I,ll die of a heart attack,

By: Alyson

Alyson — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:28:48 +0000

Oh, and I would say that the latter doesn’t apply to everyone, of course. That goes without saying. It is a generalization not intended to offend, but to show how much we do agree on our political opponents, even if we are political opponents.

By: Alyson

Alyson — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:26:56 +0000

“And I do not hate the left; I just think they are manifestly dumb, and that they behave in a horribly craven fashion when bested at the ballot box.” –Fascist Hyena
I can’t say a word about that without making myself a raving hypocrite. We have something in common in regard to those we differ in opinion with politically. Although I wouldn’t say manifestly dumb. I’d say shamelessly ignorant and proud of it. No harm, no foul.

By: Alyson

Alyson — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 04:18:40 +0000

“Calling my remarks “a lot like radical right wing ramblings” seems decidedly uncivil,”
Actually I said in some regards they sound like, and I don’t see anything uncivil about it. I didn’t call you any names, call for you to be extinguished, say I hate you due to your beliefs, make a death threat, wave a fist at you, etc. Besides that, at the end of the day, one person’s “radical” is another’s beloved Hot Air or Just One Minute where hanging with “Captain Hate” is normal, right?
I take you at your word.

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 03:31:12 +0000

Wikipedia on Democratic congressman John E. Rankin, on the floor of the House of Representatives in 1949:
“Rankin replied angrily. ‘It was not surprising to hear the gentlemen from New York defend the Communist enclave.’ Rankin bellowed that he wanted it known that the American people are not in sympathy ‘with that N***** Communist and that bunch of Reds who went up there.” On a point of order, Representative Vito Marcantonio protested to House Speaker Sam Rayburn that ‘the gentlemen from Mississippi used the word ‘n*****.’ I ask that the word be taken down and stricken from the RECORD inasmuch as there are two members in this house of Negro race.’ Rayburn claimed that Rankin had not said ‘n*****’ but ‘Negro’ but Rankin yelled over him saying ‘I said Niggra! Just as I have said since I have been able to talk and shall continue to say.;”
Plus ca change…

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 03:23:52 +0000

Meant to say *Burr and Hamilton*…

By: Fascist Hyena

Fascist Hyena — Mon, 17 Jan 2011 03:16:56 +0000

“Did you think the t-shirt was out of bounds or did you think it was fair game and couldn’t wait for the opportunity for your side to take revenge by doing the same thing (same with the Hitler depictions)”
No. I set my bounds precisely where the US Supreme Court sets them, and I apply them universally.
“He didn’t suggest we ‘reload.’” No, he merely suggested that if our “enemies” bring a knife, we should bring a gun. (The notion that either suggestion is in any way out of bounds, or leads to violent behavior, is simply nutty.)
“I don’t know enough about your postings except that in some regards they sound a lot like radical right wing ramblings here and on other blogs. Perhaps, the better answer is that it is fully consistent with the hate you direct toward the left. That is a possibility.”
Calling my remarks “a lot like radical right wing ramblings” seems decidedly uncivil, but since I am not joining in any pleas for more civility than we have had throughout our history (remember Burr and Madison), I don’t much care. And I do not hate the left; I just think they are manifestly dumb, and that they behave in a horribly craven fashion when bested at the ballot box.
“I’ll stick with the polling is not what made some of the accusations against the right unfair or erroneous. Do you disagree?” Of course not, and I have never suggested that the polling is anything other than evidence of what a sample of the population believes.