Obama On Wisconsin Budget Protests: “An Assault On Unions”

ASSAULT, Assault, assault…?
Whoa, watch the tone, Mr. President.

Why on earth should the middle class pay for the $140 million that Walker has given to his corporate buddies? There was a surplus until he got into office.

Obama sides with greedy unions who are bankrupting the states. No surprise there.

One thing unionized public employees love to forget is that the money they demand is from their “neighbors and friends”, that in effect when they unionized it is not against the government they protest, but against everyone that pays for it and against their own country men. So it really does not matter what the value of the service is that they provide. A unionized public employee has chosen loyalty to a workers union and their own paycheck over loyalty to their own country men and the ultimate union to which they give lip service in the pledge of allegiance the UNITED States to which their state is a member. It inevitably is a “screw you I want mine” mentality and there is no escaping that.

How come teachers, Janitors, firefighters and police became the root of our problems? was it them who gambled with granys money? Since when the workers became the enemy? This is an assault on the American worker.
Posted by: Zazu
They aren’t the root, but by expecting your neighbor to keep emptying his/her pockets to pay benefits (and in many cases, salaries) that far exceed that of the private sector, they become part of the problem. This legislation goes a long way in at least eliminating this part of the problem. You don’t stop here, but it is a big part of it.
Remember – these employees are not being paid by the state, they are being paid by their neighbor’s taxes …. and their neighbors have voted people into office to make legislation like this!

Oh and the best part, for having to deal with this legislation, teachers for one are guaranteed that there will be no layoffs. Oh, I feel SOOOOOO bad for you.
Try finding THAT in the private sector. Grow up, realize how good you have it and stop complaining.

Although everyone regrets making tough decisions President Obama puts his finger up to determine the direction of the wind and takes the easy position! Maybe the President should take notes on what real leadership is!

Luckily, this is not happening in DC with the teachers calling in sick and all and not teaching class. The president’s kids wouldn’t be able to go to school and learn anything.

Auh….12.6 percent contribution to health care…5.6 percent contribution to pension plan….Breakin my heart…Recent 3rd party study…..by whom…….

Until teachers start contributing to the cost of their healthcare and their pensions, their protests are juvenile. Teachers get more time off than anyone in the private sector and can attain the protection of tenure. And if their job depended upon performance like it does in the private sector, many of them would not currently have a job. Let alone having the protection of not getting laid off at a moment’s notice. So many teachers say they are teachers for the sake of the children. How does protesting instead of doing your job affect the ‘sake of the children’? Bluntly put, grow up and join the reality of today the rest of us are contending with.

What has happened to majority rule in this country. I was the voters that elected their representatives and it is those representatives that created and are ready to pass this bill. The unions need to get out of democracy’s way.

ABC is obviously an arm of the Obama administration and the Democrats. The actual headline of this should be “Obama sides with the Public Employees Union!” Why is it that an organization like ABC can be so disingenuous? Rhetorical question!

Democrats in Wisconsin are paying the price for their low turnout in the last election. They may learn the error of their ways in time for 2012 however.

Wisunion acts like a socialist state. That is why Obama loves Wisconsin.

Of course Obama sides with the unions-they are the ones that put him in office! They gave his campaign millions.When Obama began the Healthcare rant and the Unions thought they would HAVE to take his insurance, I seen on TV the head of the AFL-CIO went to the WH and had a talk with him, and he said he told Obama if they had to take the insurance they would let him know what they thought at the polls and LO and Behold! They were EXEMPT from taking the Healthcare. Got to keep their Cadillac plans! Now, isn’t that special? It’s over 700 different union groups and some large corporations and congress that are exempt now! The tax payers pay the pensions for the Unions and they pay a small amount for their insurance. Talk about a “nanny” state of affairs-that is it! Glad Como, Christie, Jerry Brown and now the Gov. of Wisconsin is letting them know they need to pay their fair share like the rest of us!!!

Putting aside the fact that state governments are going broke… maybe there would be more sympathy for teachers if American students were getting an even mediocre education.

The claim that the $3.6 Billion deficit is 100% Walker’s fault is patent falsehood.
September 10, 2010:
“Madison — The state faces a looming $2.7 billion budget shortfall, but that hasn’t kept candidates for governor from piling on with what are likely to be hundreds of millions of dollars in new commitments to cut taxes or increase spending.”

Posted by: Mike | Feb 17, 2011 6:58:37 PM “The unions need to get out of democracy’s way.” Mike, the unions are part of a democracy. Unions already fought on YOUR behalf for a 40-hour work week, workplace safety regulations, child labor laws, and sick leave. Teachers are not “thugs” or unwilling to sit down for a discussion about what’s right for the state.
However, since Gov. Walker entered office, the state slashed tax revenue in favor of his campaign contributors, Big Business. He has simply refused to negotiate with state employees.
The extreme Right is at WAR with education and labor – this is the tea soaked mindset of those who want to eliminate the Department of Education – the mindset of those who forced removal of Thomas Jefferson from Texas textbooks.
The ultimate goal is destruction of ALL unions, re-distribution of public funds for religious school options, and compliant cheap labor for the free market.
So who AGAIN is expected to pay? Teachers, students, and middle class workers. This is Gov. Walker’s clear attempt to break a union’s right to collectively bargain for benefits and working conditions – one more step in the war against education and labor.

Teachers, please stop crying about your “low” salaries. In many communities across this nation (including my hometown), teachers are among the most well-to-do. You get paid very well overall compared to your neighbors AND you only work 180 days. I’m not saying you don’t earn your paycheck, or that you don’t do a great service for the communities you live in – what I am saying is, you have to share the bad times of your community as well. Governments are in the red, you can’t expect automatic raises and fully paid pensions (like in Wisconsin) when this is the case.
The Wisconsin teacher union head today was talking about a teacher earning $52,000 having to take a hit by paying into a pension if this law goes through. It took me 17 years in the private sector to make that much – and that’s above what most people make in this country.
Stop complaining! Look around you, realize your lot in life is pretty cool compared to many around you, and be happy for your situation! I mean, in Wisconsin, the governor is forgoing layoffs by doing this. Sounds like a good deal to me!

The DNC is paying these protestors.
Paying to bus them in.
That’s pretty embarrassing.

“These public workers are Wisconsin’s champions every single day and we urge the Governor and the State Legislature to not take away their rights.”
Posted by: Alyson | Feb 17, 2011 8:07:27 PM
Seems the voters in your state have urged the Governor and the State Legislature to make your state more fiscally responsible!

Posted by: MayBee | Feb 17, 2011 8:09:32 PM
Of course. Because unions,collective bargaining and basic workers’ rights are as American as baseball and American football. It’s about workers rights. Of course.

Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Feb 17, 2011 8:01:40 PM
Funny that you’re seeing all these tea party-esque signs. Who knew tea partiers would actually have the chutzpah to protest taking away workers’ rights. I thought they were a bit more confused and hypocritical than consistent. I don’t really believe you without a source, though, as all the signs I’ve seen have been along the lines of “Walk like an Egyptian,” “If you can read this sign, thank a teacher”, “Kill the bill”, “Hail Emperor Walker,” “Workers rights are human rights”… etc.

It’s not my state, french fries. And if they wanted fiscal responsibility they wouldn’t have voted in this yahoo. He’s a mess and he is the one responsible for ginning up the budget shortfall.
Posted by: Alyson | Feb 17, 2011 8:16:05 PM
Well milk shake, you seem to know an awful lot about Wisconsin for someone who doesn’t live there. Stop complaining union workers – you have it better than most, even when you’re asked to give something back.
And for the last time, public workers should not have the right to get a CBA! You are living off tax dollars, not private company profits. You’re expecting your neighbor to foot your bill, while your neighbor is in dire straits. It’s kinda like welfare in a way.

“Putting aside the fact that state governments are going broke… maybe there would be more sympathy for teachers if American students were getting an even mediocre education.”
You hit the nail on the head, Cindy. Since the Department of Education was created, test scores have been flat. We keep falling behind and they keep saying we need to spend more money on education. Maybe if we get rid of tenure, have more quality controls, and allow teachers to actually discipline children again, we would start seeing some improvement. Until then, don’t whine to me about how you want my taxes to pay for your free health care and pensions.

“Mike, the unions are part of a democracy. Unions already fought on YOUR behalf for a 40-hour work week, workplace safety regulations, child labor laws, and sick leave.” – GG
Okay, great. Job well done. Now we have laws for most of that. Unions are no longer needed.

Obama sides with the unions? Big surprise. We’ll deal with you in Nov 2012, bud. We need a renaissance in this country, and the WI guv is going to set an earth-shaking precedent, I hope. Up with personal accountability, down with anachronistic, socialist constructs such as unions!!

We watched Egypt citizens take back their country, now the World gets to see US citizens get back their State. Obama is President of the United States and has only an opinion but the elected Republican Law Makers have voiced their support of the Wiscosin Govenor. Now some might think differently as this protest is moving to other States. Boehner is looking to shut down the Government an allow millions to lost work and let’s see how it feels when the Banks, post office, SSI and all federal agency are closed. It happen before when Republicans pulled the same thing on then President Clinton. Yes all those in favor started yelling at the GOP. Well if you don’t learn you often repeat the same mistakes and now with the GOP in the majority it could happen.

Union thug resorts to violence:
“MADISON, Wis. (AP) – Police have hand-cuffed a protester at the state Capitol after he apparently tried to charge into the state Assembly.”
Anyone who isn’t afraid to confront the actual facts can go to HotAir right now and see the charming signs.

Alyson, I beg to differ that you are informed. At least, not enough.
I called you a socialist, because that’s what you are. You are advocating for bigger government, at the expense of the private taxpayer. I’m sorry if that offends you, but it’s the truth.
What you and your unionite friends don’t want to face is that you have to sacrifice just like the rest of us now, and you don’t want to. You just want us to raise taxes on everyone just so people like you don’t have to pay into a pension, that is nonexistent for most private-sector workers anyways.
We already have laws in this country protecting basic labor rights (40-hour work week, etc.). Sure, unions brought a lot of that on, at a time when they were necessary. They no longer are! This isn’t “The Jungle” by Upton Sinclair anymore!

When I asked the other day if the left could do anything to make public education worse in this country I didn’t expect an answer.
When President Barack Obama spotlighted a successful school in his State of the Union speech, he picked Bruce Randolph School in Denver.
“Take a school like Bruce Randolph in Denver,” the president said. “Three years ago, it was rated one of the worst schools in Colorado. Last May, 97 percent of seniors received their diploma.”
Well someone actually did journalism and reports…
“Bruce Randolph was a middle school when it opened in 2002. In 2007, Denver Public Schools gave Bruce Randolph School permission to operate autonomously. It was the first school in the state to be granted autonomy from district and union rules.
Each teacher then had to reapply for his or her job. A published report said only six teachers remained.”

SENATE DEMOCRATS FOUND — AT A RESORT IN ILLINOIS!
Typical of the lowlife radical democrats..keep spending the states money and not showing up for work because they are cowards
Obama Policy: insert spoon. stir.. wait till it boils, and watch for the meltdown of America

Posted by: Yep I said that | Feb 17, 2011 9:11:56 PM
Since I grew up in Rockford, it amuses me immensely that the Clock Tower Inn Best Western there is being called a resort. You’ve been lied to by very shoddy reporters.

I called you a socialist, because that’s what you are. You are advocating for bigger government, at the expense of the private taxpayer. I’m sorry if that offends you, but it’s the truth
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You people don’t even know what socialism is. We’re arguing about marginal changes in the balance between social programs and free enterprise in a mixed economy like ours…not abolishing free markets. So what do you claim to be, a capitalist? Do you propose we privatize our completely government owned and operated armed forces?

SEIU will have to do a better job of community organizing to get more Democrats in Wisconsin elected in 2012. This is embarrassing for Pres Barry and the United States.
The Wisconsin Democrats that left the state hopefully are spending their own money hiding from the Wisconsin police at that resort in Illinois.

Since I grew up in Rockford, it amuses me immensely that the Clock Tower Inn Best Western there is being called a resort. You’ve been lied to by very shoddy reporters.
Posted by: Alyson
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the fact that they are even there, shows their radical left wing extremism and, there resolve to destroy their state. they should be removed from office for deriliction of duty
But what can we say, it just shows the credibility and anti americanism of left wing extremist…

I know this post will get a lot of personal attacks but the facts are that MY state voted on “right to work” 7 years ago. You no longer have to be a union member to work anywhere. No the sky didn’t fall. In fact we were voted by Forbes as the “most recession proof” state in the 50. Seems Oklahoma knew the way all along. You gotta laugh at the bankrupt east and west coast , not to mention dem controlled Illinois that raised tax 60% LOL. SUCKERS !!

Proud Teacher……no one is saying YOU are the enemy. My understanding is that this country as a whole is BROKE. Where do you suppose we should come up with the money to pay for all the benefits most private sector employees DON’T have? An average $55K salary PLUS benefits is not a bad deal. Maybe you don’t start out that high but when your raises are automatic (not performance based) it adds up. When teachers are BAD teachers, they don’t get fired, they get tenure. They also get a pension for life. Why shouldn’t you pay more into your own retirement since most all private sector employees pay for ALL of their own. Either way, we are all in this together and we have to find a way to pay for it. No one is trying to take away your rights, but maybe expecting union employees to live by the same rules the rest of America has to live by is not asking too much.
There are two sides to this story. No one really cares about the unions anymore, they are out dated power mongers. We have laws in place now to protect workers, we have lawyers and courts to protect your rights. Unions just want to be able to influence polititians and exempt themselves from rules everyone else has to follow. That is the real argument.

Obama-founded OFA spearheading effort to defeat bill…
OBAMA———VS——–AMERICA

Posted by: Yep I said that | Feb 17, 2011 9:31:53 PM
The resolve to destroy the state lies with Walker. He ginned up and exploited a budget crisis for ideological reasons, and Americans are standing up for their rights. The response which he has received was self-inflicted. He’s reaped what he’s sown. the blame lies solely with him. I’m glad the Dems have shown some chutzpah.
It is an assault on unions and spin aside, let’s be clear, unions represent hard working middle class Americans who make this country great. btw, those benefits for Wisconsin’s state workers weren’t stolen. Far from it. They were negotiated by elected officials and can be re-negotiated.

the union members give a portion of their salaries–which are 100% taxpayer dollars–to the union, which in turn rewards with campaign contributions legislators who grant lavish union benefits.
It’s a corrupt bargain
—————-
But lobbyists are not?

They told us they could see Russia from the sky lounge.
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn | Feb 17, 2011 9:40:14 PM
Tina Fey as Sarah Palin on SNL is doing the reporting (?)

Taxpayer dollars are the same as customer dollars when paying for government services.

“To the extent that there is an imbalance — Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.
…the fiscal bureaus report … holds that “more than half” of the new shortfall comes from three of Walker’s initiatives”

Alyson—Unions represent UNIONS. We are nothing but pawns in their game. They care about individuals as much as dems did when they forced healthscam thtough.

loyalopposition—the “blowback” is coming from a blowhard in the white house. Ordinary citizens support this , or will you need another lesson in 2012.

Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | Feb 17, 2011 10:13:35 PM
Yeah, it looks all cleaned up, doesn’t it? Not messy at all.
“To the extent that there is an imbalance — Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January.”
It is an assault on unions and spin aside, let’s be clear, unions represent hard working middle class Americans who make this country great. btw, those benefits for Wisconsin’s state workers weren’t stolen. Far from it. They were negotiated by elected officials and can be re-negotiated.

Five and a half million Wisconsin people people are supporting these parasites. Teachers need to get in the “REAL WORLD.” Taxpayers are fed-up with supporting these losers. A 25 year retired elementary teacher from Cleveland.

“In the public sector, outstanding employees are not celebrated, and bad ones are defended tooth and nail. What kind of backwards system is that??”
The mythical system as described in Righty World.
“WHY – on earth would an outstanding teacher not want to be recognized for it, rather than seeing the poor teacher down the hall make the same salary”
-And the right-wing solution: cut all their salaries to match the production of the poorest teachers….that’ll give all the outstanding teachers plenty of incentive to stick around.

“It is an assault on unions and spin aside, let’s be clear, unions represent hard working middle class Americans who make this country great. ”
Not so much. There are 14.7 million unionized workers in the US. Over half of them (7.6 million) are in public employee unions. There are over 100 million taxpayers.

Alyson, your posts here today remind me of that famous Reagan quote… etc.
Posted by: Obama, the second coming | Feb 17, 2011 10:11:44 PM
I’m not sure why as I wasn’t Reagan’s liberal friend and I’m not yours either so that makes the quote entirely irrelevant.
What I’m advocating for is rights. Workers rights. The rights of hardworking middle class Americans.
Walker ginned up and exploited a budget crisis for ideological reasons, and Americans are standing up for their rights. The response which he has received was self-inflicted. He’s reaped what he’s sown. the blame lies solely with him. I’m glad the Dems have shown some chutzpah.
Those benefits for Wisconsin’s state workers weren’t stolen, btw. Far from it. They were negotiated by elected officials and can be re-negotiated.
You are right that Walker wants to take away the right to negotiate and renegotiate. That is why he is being referred to as an imperialist and king in the signage of the protestors. What’s next after you pay off your cronies with money extorted from public workers after exploiting a self-made crisis?

Here’s a real-world example of how unions can promote poor output. My daughter is in kindergarten this year at a school w/ five kindergarten teachers. After talking w/ friends and other parents over the last two years, we got a good feel for which of them were good, and which were not. The general consensus was, one was great, three were average to good, and one was awful. And we had a personal experience w/ the awful one as her daughter was in a dance class w/ my daughter. Just a regular grouch of a person.
Anyhow, my daughter was lucky to get the great one. Our friend’s daughter had had her three years earlier and loved her. My daughter is thriving! Partly (mostly?) because my wife and I give a darn, and have been working w/ her since birth, but – clearly – also because she has a teacher that cares, and is willing to do what it takes to ensure her kids succeed. Just plain awesome.
Conversely, we have two friends who’s daughter is in the class w/ the poor teacher. I’ve asked them several times about her, and they are so upset. As one father told me, “she’s clearly just there for the paycheck.”
My point here is, both are treated the same in the eyes of New York State United Teachers. Why is that? In the real world, that poor teacher would be put on an improvement plan, then fired if she didn’t shape up. And the great teacher would be rewarded. But not in a unionized workforce, and that is a shame! But who really suffers? Us, the people paying the salaries! Luckily, my kid got the great teacher this year. We may not be so lucky in later years, and God forbid my younger daughter gets the poor kindergarten teacher in a couple years …

“In the public sector, outstanding employees are not celebrated, and bad ones are defended tooth and nail. What kind of backwards system is that??
The mythical system as described in Righty World.”
-Sorry Skip, that’s the way it works at my company. The best move up, the average stay put, and the poor move on or get booted. Try it sometime!
“WHY – on earth would an outstanding teacher not want to be recognized for it, rather than seeing the poor teacher down the hall make the same salary”
And the right-wing solution: cut all their salaries to match the production of the poorest teachers….that’ll give all the outstanding teachers plenty of incentive to stick around.”
-No Skip, that’s not what we’re saying but go ahead and stick words in our mouth. I have no problem paying a great teacher a better salary …. as long as, in return, it is easier to fire a poor teacher. What exactly about that do you find troubling?

And Skip, if you don’t think it’s hard to fire a bad teacher in New York State, look up the history of New York State United Teachers to see just how wrong you are!
You have to darn near assault a student to even get a sniff of being fired.

“when public union bargain with tax payers money, it’s not the same thing as that in private sector. ”
No, it isn’t precisely the same but taxpayers elect officials who negotiate on their behalf, just as shareholders have people in the private sector negotiating on their behalf. Of course, in the public sector, some of the taxpayers who are being represented at the negotiating table include those in the unions. They have every right to assemble, protest, boycott, have their voices heard and fight for fair pay and benefits. They are Americans, they work hard and in this instance, Walker ginned up a budget shortfall after having paid off his cronies.

Posted by: Obama, the second coming | Feb 17, 2011 10:39:26 PM
I see it simply as a fact. Therein lies the big difference in our comments and logic.

A few have wrecked it for the state.
Some teachers in Milwaukee school district make $98,871 salary and $29,436 fringe pay. Add it together and we get $128,307.
Yet, Milwaukee kicks out some of the dumbest kids in the nation.
Didn’t that Milwaukee union think that a day of reckoning would come after negotiating a wage like that with the low cost of living Milwaukee has? It’s just too bad the rest of the teacher’s in the state are targeted.

“My point here is, both are treated the same in the eyes of New York State United Teachers. ”
If that’s even true, it sounds like you think every school district has the same lousy set up. We have charter schools with merit pay. Be more proactive in your own school district rather than assuming you know the status of every school district in the country and using one lousy teacher (who isn’t even your daughter’s teacher) as an excuse for demonizing all teachers and other hard working Americans in public unions simply as a means of giving testimony to your ideology.

I can not believe the Wisconsin Democrats abdicated their responsibility as an elected official and ran out of town with their tail between their legs rather than place their vote. Now aren’t these the type of leaders you want “leading” Wisconsin?? I think they need to sit in the time out chair and think about what they have done. LOL

“I can not believe the Wisconsin Democrats abdicated their responsibility as an elected official and ran out of town with their tail between their legs rather than place their vote.”
I can believe it. They’re gutless cowards who only know how to deficit spend to buy votes. They’re only interested in power, not in making difficult choices to fix Wisconsin’s budget issues. They need to be thrown out of office for not doing the work that Wisconsin taxpayers are paying them to do.

“Worker rights are human rights.”
Really? When did public sector rights become human rights, and who said so?
Is there a human right to have taxpayers fund 100% of your retirement fund? Is there a human right to have taxpayers fund 100% of your health care benefits?
Do taxpayers have human rights? Do their elected representatives have the right to establish the conditions under which their money will be disbursed?
If any of these greedy workers feel a single one of their human rights has been violated, he can take his case to court. I do not like his chances.

This is the new reality: the American income taxpayer will not be taxed any further. Man up and deal with it.
The sight of thses pigs wailing at the public trough is grotesque. It will be a pleasure to watch them being taught their badly needed lesson.

Who is going to be the judge of what a poor teacher is. Teachers provide a valuable service which is hard to measure and allocate efficiently in free markets. I know plenty of hard working teachers who have had to weather petty criticism from shallow judgmental parents. The only real measure of ‘output’ is how much their students learn, it’s not a popularity contest.
Posted by: Skip |
Ask em why there aren’t better ways to measure teacher performance? I bet none of them say the union.
Los Angeles spends 3.5 million over a decade trying to fire 7 teachers and lost two of those cases.
And why do politicians always seem to opt out of the system they created?
Or gaming that system like they did under Arne Duncan in the tribal regions of Illinois. Whatever became of that genius after he threw the DC schoolchildren under the bus?

Mary, you didn’t ruin my day. I’m not a Republican (or self-proclaimed “independent conservative” who only votes Republican), and hence, not thin-skinned nor given to believing lies and untruths. I certainly don’t take the word of a someone who is unclear on how the private sector is doing but makes definitive statements anyway and then says, but, but, but you’re wrong cuz I just know it in my little heart and feel it in my gut.
The private sector isn’t “broke” nor is the United States. Some states are but Wisconsin wasn’t doing as badly as it is now prior to Walker taking over either. He ginned up the budget shortfall.
The heart of the story in Wisconsin is loony idealogues voted in as Republicans want to strip away 50 years of worker rights in under a week. The proposal removes the ability of public workers to negotiate in any meaningful way bargaining rights going forward in perpetuity.
And many taxpayers and voters and workers in Wisconsin aren’t happy about it.

“The private sector isn’t “broke” nor is the United States.”
Posted by: Alyson | Feb 17, 2011 11:26:56 PM
Google “debt clock real time” and support your argument.

I sit here and read some of these posts and I just can’t help but hope some go on to lose their own retirement or jobs.

Democrats turned a recession into a depression
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I’d love to see how Politifact would rate this claim. I’m betting either flat out false or even “pants on fire”. For one thing the economic indicators typically used to make these judgments don’t even place us in recession now…have you noticed the DOW for instance? Next if anyone is prolonging unemployment it’s been the Republicans by inhibiting government spending any way they possibly can so employment is going to have to crawl back under free market forces alone, which history has demonstrated repeatedly can be a protracted affair.

Posted by: Mary | Feb 17, 2011 11:32:17 PM
Google our assets, calculate our potential for revenue, look up our GDP and where we stand in terms of national economies and standard of living and defend yours.

This has been going on all week, and suddenly ABC discovers this story? And still seems to be struggling to get all the facts.
Apparently, there really ISN’T a big budget issue – this is nothing more than a GOP union-busting scheme. Of course, the budget would have been helped if Walker and the Republican legislature hadn’t just doled out big tax breaks for – you guessed it – the corporations. Obviously, the GOP has no problem negotiating for zero taxes for corporations, but has an enormous problem negotiating contracts for the services of working Americans.
And why do conservatives hate unions so much? Shouldn’t working Americans be permitted to negotiate the worth of their goods and services just like the big corporate “citizens?”
Now I understand that conservatives welcomed working for private employers who can dictate and change the terms of their compensation and employment AT-WILL – but now they are whining because there are still some workers who managed to keep some benefits.

Obama, the second coming sez: “My point here is, both are treated the same in the eyes of New York State United Teachers. Why is that? In the real world, that poor teacher would be put on an improvement plan, then fired if she didn’t shape up. And the great teacher would be rewarded.”
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Apparently you are pretty disconnected from the real world. Almost anyone who has worked in the private sector knows that often the most incompetent buttkissers are the ones promoted and rewarded. After all, it was the conservatives who, during the 1990′s, invented the concept of “networking” as a means to often avoid equal opportunity provisions.
In the private sector, it isn’t unusual at all for an incompetent person to be rewarded and promoted. People get opportunities because they play a round of golf with the boss or because they attend the same church.
And conservatives gladly pay more at the grocery store, happily pay higher insurance premiums, gleefully accept dictated utility rates without a single protest. Yet go on and on about the government “picking their pocket” as if the corporations wouldn’t be sticking their hands in it with every convenience fee invented to boost “profits?
The core issue here is this: Are American individual working citizens allowed the right to negotiate their working contracts or not? Obviously, conservatives believe in corporate dictation – which is why you’ll never see the Tea Party standing in front of Blue Cross after a 20%+ “premium” increase protesting THAT pickpocketing.

Ask em why there aren’t better ways to measure teacher performance?
————————
How do you propose to do it?
Test scores?
Curriculum workload?
Ratings by their peers?
Ratings by their community?
There are obvious flaws in all of these.

Walker can face a recall election in 11 months. And I have a feeling that is exactly what is going to happen to this Tea Party clown.

BO, PWD sez: “President Obama needs to call off his union thugs from visiting the homes of Republican politicians in Wisconsin and DC. This attempt at intimidation needs to stop.”
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Sounds to me like they were borrowing a page from the Tea Party playbook. Except they didn’t throw bricks thru windows, cut gas lines, or carry their firearms around as an act of intimidation.

Obama, the second coming sez: “Stop complaining union workers – you have it better than most, even when you’re asked to give something back.”
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Now why is it that they seem to have it better than most? Could it be that conservatives, led by their patron saint Ronald Reagan, managed to sell off their own bargaining power, watch their wages and benefits erode, and surrender themselves to corporate master dictators without putting up as much as a whimper?
And now, rather than (per usual) asking the corporations and the wealthy to contribute to the state, they jealously demand to force other workers to give up their rights so that everyone will be on the waterslide to Third World economic status. Well, everyone except the wealthy, of course. They will continue to be the sole benefactors of government handouts with the blessings of their servants, the Republican Party.

Skip sez: “But Nancy Pelosi fixed the economy with a record $5.4 trillion in deficit spending in four years
—————–
That wasn’t me…I just didn’t want Mary to fail to get the well deserved credit for her diatribe, but do continue Kevin, I’m enjoying your comments.

Obama, the Second Coming sez: “Well, luckily for us Alyson, most of us are going against your way … you know, socialism!”
—————-
Really? Let’s see here – it looks pretty socialistic to me to demand that other workers give up their contract-negotiated rights because YOU did in the private sector years ago – and now are paying the price. I mean, why should they have these rights when you so willingly gave them up at the behest of your own employers over the years?
So of course you resent paying for these benefits – and you resent that others still can collectively bargain to secure a contract to sell their services to the people of the state. After all, bargaining to secure a working contract is a socialist thing, right?

Obama the Second coming sez: “What you and your unionite friends don’t want to face is that you have to sacrifice just like the rest of us now, and you don’t want to”
————————-
You mean, except Republican special interest groups and the wealthy – they are exempt from sacrifice.
And they didn’t even need a Union to negotiate their own special favors.

Patrick sez: “Obama sides with greedy unions who are bankrupting the states. No surprise there.
—————————-
And no surprise that a conservative would forget that perhaps all the corporations who were allowed TAX-EXEMPT status and given tax breaks might be bankrupting the states.

MAYBEE sez: “Obama does not see public employee unions as “faceless bureaucrats”. He sees them as big huge political donors.”
——————–
You mean, like the Republicans view tax-breaks and tax-exempt corporations as huge political donors?
Now what is Governor Walker doing to encourage them to increase their share of the burden of saving the state?
Nothing? Oh. . .well, what a surprise.
Corporations – the GOP’s welfare queens.

kevinbgoode sez: My guys are bad but your guys are worser.
Nanny nanny boo boo.

Ed sez: “The State workers already enjoy so many before benefits and protections than the normal person in the private sector”
—————————–
Now how did that happen, Ed? Could it be that conservatives, led by their patron saint Ronnie Reagan, actively sought to dissolve the bargaining power of employees in private companies? And, 30 years later, what we have is lots of private employees who no longer get fully paid health and pension benefits?
Maybe someone should have stood up 30 years ago and said something instead of waiting until they lose it all and then demand that everyone else lose theirs, too.
Now why is it that conservatives aren’t willing to extend Walker’s plan into the private sector? Why shouldn’t consumers be allowed to vote on whether to accept higher prices on goods and services produced by a private employer when that employer is providing wage increases that surpass the consumer price index? I mean, that’s money out of MY pocket, isn’t it? Especially if it is a utility and I have no alternatives?
If I have to pay the higher prices at the market, I should be able to veto the wage increases for employeesin the private sector. After all, they are picking the pockets of their friends and neighbors for personal profit.

Parallax View sez: “Auh….12.6 percent contribution to health care…5.6 percent contribution to pension plan….Breakin my heart…”
———————
Yeah. . it would break your heart if you hadn’t bargained that stuff away in your own employment years ago. But I’m real sure it would break your heart if your boss told you that ya can’t get another raise above 1% unless the public passes a referendum approving the price increases in the products to pay for it. . .

Now what is Governor Walker doing to encourage them to increase their share of the burden of saving the state?
Nothing? Oh. . .well, what a surprise.
—————-
Don’t you know Kevin? Encouraging corporations to increase their share of the burden would be a job killer…at least that’s the formulaic line.

Wisconsinite – Apparently, conservatives believe that the middle class should pay for those perks for special interests because government is supposed to provide welfare for the rich.

Ed sez: “The State workers already enjoy so many before benefits and protections than the normal person in the private sector”
MAYBEE sez: “Obama does not see public employee unions as “faceless bureaucrats”. He sees them as big huge political donors.”
Patrick sez: “Obama sides with greedy unions who are bankrupting the states. No surprise there.
Cheesehead sez: “One thing unionized public employees love to forget is that the money they demand is from their “neighbors and friends”, that in effect when they unionized it is not against the government they protest, but against everyone that pays for it and against their own country men.”
Obama the Second coming sez: “What you and your unionite friends don’t want to face is that you have to sacrifice just like the rest of us now, and you don’t want to”
YEP I SAID THAT sez: “Typical of the lowlife radical democrats..keep spending the states money and not showing up for work because they are cowards”
Obama, the Second Coming sez: “Let the free market determine salaries and benefits”
Obama, the Second Coming sez: “Well, luckily for us Alyson, most of us are going against your way … you know, socialism!”
Jose sez: “Until then, don’t whine to me about how you want my taxes to pay for your free health care and pensions.”
Parallax View sez: “Here’s a thought…How about, TAX PAYERS RIGHTS…..”
Obama, the second coming sez: “Stop complaining union workers – you have it better than most, even when you’re asked to give something back.”
BO, PWD sez: “President Obama needs to call off his union thugs from visiting the homes of Republican politicians in Wisconsin and DC. This attempt at intimidation needs to stop.”
Skip sez: “But Nancy Pelosi fixed the economy with a record $5.4 trillion in deficit spending in four years. Oh wait, no she didn’t. We’re now experiencing INCREASING poverty, increasing unemployment, increasing foreclosures, and increasing bankruptcies”
Isn’t it nice to see just how many Americans get it!
Thank You KevinBGoode for pointing that out.

Why is it in all of academia no one can figure out a way to measure teacher performance?
———————
If it was easy free markets could efficiently allocate these services, but like policemen and firefighters their services are difficult to quantify, though few would dispute their importance and value.

you union people are right, by god. let the state keep paying the incompentent their free pensions and above average pay at the tax payers expense. amen. then the state can get along with those layoffs. who do they think they are? asking the incompentent to contribute to their own pensions and medical care like the rest of the public!

Backing Unions is not backing the workers, as the title of this article read on the main page. There are plenty of workers out there who do a great job and help build this country, but are not any part of a union. Not only that, we don’t want to work for unions. Forcing dues on people who are already taxed enough, and then taking those dues and using them to pay off rich politicians, is not backing workers. Unions were an idea that ran their course, and now exist only to further their own existence.

It seems that many commenting here have not read the news articles on what is going on in Wisconsin.
The teachers, firemen, etc. are not protesting the wage freeze, paying more towards their pension and insurance. They are willing to help balance the budget. What they are protesting is ending collective bargaining.
There are many comments here that federal employees are overpaid, but the facts, as stated in another abc news article, show that isn’t true. The right is very into making up their own ‘facts’ to justify their position. We need the media to be alert and not let them repeat lies without challenging them with the truth. Good job, abc.

Does anyone understand the reason so many states are suddenly broke is not because of wages paid out but because the state’s income is much lower, due to high unemployment?
People out of work are not paying in as much tax to the state as income tax or buying as much and thus contributing sales tax. Plus the states are paying out millions in unemployment.
The solution doesn’t lie in cutting jobs but by increasing jobs.
We can all help by buying American-made products whenever posssible. Check your labels, even at the supermarket. There are now Chinese frozen veggies and cookies, besides many other items. (How crazy is it that veggies we grow here in abundance, are now being shipped from China?)
Buying American = Jobs = Higher Revenue = Balanced Budgets

Dean, workers that don’t belong to a union have benefits because of unions. Read your history. Working 5 days a week, being paid overtime, sick days, vacation days, workers compensation, safety at work, all are facts because of unions. To think companies would still provide those workers rights if unions no longer exist is to deny history.
For example, every time the Republicans have a majority they try to weaken the Clean Air Act. Did we stop needing clean air to breathe? No, but that won’t stop the greediest from taking away what we all need for a decent life, if it can make them more money. It would be the same way with worker’s rights if unions didn’t exist. Greed will stop at nothing. All American workers should support those protesting in Wisconsin.

I lost a good job 2 years ago. I make $8000 less now but I have a job, I didnt go on unemployment. I cant afford health insurance for my family now. I am concidered low income. So I am supposed to feel sorry for these poor middle class State Employees? These are desperate times we are in and some just dont get it! They want the rich to pay for their generous pension plan Everyone has to pay their share.

Clearly the Wisconsin governor slipped this little provision in as a nod to his corporate supporters. It really has nothing to do with balancing the state budget.
Fortunatly, the people are calling him on it and doing their best to get him to back down. I think I see a black eye growing on his face.

Barry, Barry, Barry, your union colors are comming out. Why is this no suprise and he says he wants to help businesses. Too funny barry.

Whats funny is that the unions say they will accept the modest reductions in their pensions and health care but not the bargining agreement. That is like putting a bandaid on a cut off arm. All the unions would do is wait until their contract expires and then use their strong arm tatics to get it all back and then some. Smart move governor.

The largest cost for most businesses is payroll. Everyone needs to tighten their belt, including the governor. I think we need to have unions to keep big business honest. However, there needs to be a happy medium. Most union employees are extremely over paid and under worked. MHO.

hdrake, the issue isn’t the give-backs, the issue is ending collective bargaining. That is what most of the protestors are against.
I’m sorry that the economy left you with a lower paying job. I hope in 2014 when the health care reform bill becomes more active that you will get affordable insurance. Being without insurance cost lives, as 40,000 Americans die each year because they couldn’t afford insurance.
The people of Wisconsin are right to protest and even strike to get the governor to hear them and not abolish the workers right to collective bargaining.
Do you honestly think the governor and those Republican legislators would have been elected if they had advertised ending collective bargaining?

“Google our assets, calculate our potential for revenue, look up our GDP and where we stand in terms of national economies and standard of living and defend yours.”
Posted by: Alyson | Feb 17, 2011 11:45:32 PM
You want my assets, Alyson? Come get them!

“I think what Gov. Walker is trying to do amounts to political thuggery,” Mr. Obey told Talking Points Memo. “It is one thing to say that these are tough times — everybody’s got to cut back and public employees are going to have to take cuts like the rest of us … but he’s using it as an excuse to gut the ability of workers to organize and bargain collectively. In my view that’s outrageous.”

P.S. You want to cut a couple hundred million from the budget, Walker? Follow the lead of the newly minted GOP Gov in Pennsylvania and pull the plug on a jail.

What about the children? Wisconsin teachers are putting their union above what is best for the common good.

Federal employee unions such as SEIU are running this country broke.
Federal salaries and benefit packages are far above comparable private sector positions.
The only way to get a handle on the federal budget is to initiate a series of cuts in the number of federal personnell and to reduce their outlandish compensation.
The unions won’t like this, but they are putting their interests above that of the nation.
USA Today has published several expose stories about federal salaries. Is it any wonder that 7 of the top 10 richest counties in the nation are surrounding Washington DC?

Joe White, it isn’t true that federal employees make more than those with the same job in the private sector, the study cited by usa today and fox news is skewed as it lumps together all workers of all occupations. Federal employees have more white collar than blue collar jobs, unlike the public, so of course, the average salary is higher, just as it is for Microsoft over Wal-mart.
When you compare the wages by similar jobs and locales the salaries are the same. The feds actually set the salaries by averaging what the private sector is paying in that city for a comparable job.
And about complaining about the federal jobs Obama has added, know that 4 out of 5 are in the Defense, Department of Homeland Security and the Department of Veterans Affairs. Seems like we needed to beef up all three of them.

Obama said in his comments about the protests in Wisconsin that Scott Walker’s supposed budget argument that he wanted to close a budget shortage by shutting down union bargaining, was an “apparent” attack on unions in general.
What planet has Obama been on for the past 2 years??? What does he think UNION BUSTING looks like????
Maybe he put on a brand new pair of BLOOD-RED REPUBLICAN boxer shorts that John Boehmer and Mitch McConnell gave him before he made that comment!!!!

Posted by: wheresmymoney | Feb 18, 2011 11:04:46 AM
No source? That’s because it’s Wisconsin, Indiana and Ohio where the governors are taking away rights and the DNC and OFA are helping with turnout for protests.

Politico: “OFA, now an arm of the DNC, has been providing help to man phone banks and working to find transportation for thousands of protesters in Madison.
Boehner called on Obama “to order the DNC to suspend these tactics” — which the president has no intention of doing.
The White House is walking a fine line here: Wisconsin and Ohio are virtually must-win states for Obama. Both went for him in 2008 and both have big, well-organized union populations. But both states have massive budget deficits and feisty independent voting bases that booted out dozens of Democrats in last year’s midterms.”
Now we see the true reason Obama is sticking his nose in State business.
Alyson, I misspoke. Michigan has only had a “sick out” by about 40% of the teachers so far…. We will see what happens in the coming days.

“Source? When I google it nothing comes up to verify.”
Maybe that’s because two Google execs were behind the Egypt riots, and Google itself is in Obama’s back pocket. And Obama LOVES the unions. OfA is sponsoring them.

“Doesn’t sound like political thuggery”
It is because it is about taking away rights moving forward and in perpetuity. That first little line you quoted is a doozy.

Political thuggery: “”Public employees are willing to contribute their pound of flesh. He wasn’t even willing to talk to the teacher unions despite 17 separate requests from them for meetings with him.”

Wisconsin Law…‎946.12 Misconduct in public office. Any public officer or public employee who does any of the following is guilty of a Class I felony: 946.12(1) (1) Intentionally fails or refuses to perform a known mandatory, non discretionary, ministerial duty of the officer’s or employee’s office or employment within the time or in the manner required by law..
Posted by: Reality2014 | Feb 18, 2011 7:44:20 AM
The Dems that skipped town should be arrested and charged with a felony as soon as they return.

Average annual pay and benefits for union-thug Wisconsin teachers: $89,500.
Average for American private-sector workers: $65,000. And they’re the ones who are paying the thugs, 100 cents out of every dollar.

I am a car parts delivery driver in Cleveland. Guess what would happen if the five of us drivers were to leave work for three days to protest a bill not to our liking? NO JOB WHEN WE GOT BACK – AND RIGHTLY SO!!! “Atlas Shrugged” is no longer fiction. The inmates have taken over. The public sector is going to do this country in – IN THE NAME OF FAIRNESS? Oh yeah, I almost forgot, I am also a retired Cleveland Catholic teacher (intermediate).

Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Feb 18, 2011 1:15:03 PM
Here’s a news flash for you. Public sector employees including teachers are citizens and pay taxes. In other words, it is inaccurate to claim or insinuate that only private sector employees, let alone only those making less than teachers pay teacher salaries. In addition, your comparison is marred and useless. To make it useful, and less marred, try comparing the salaries of people holding private sector jobs that require a college degree and certification. Then calculate how many years they have to work, how much experience they have to have to reach the average.
Can’t wait to see an apples to apples comparison.

Correction: it’s $89,500 for the WI unoun teachers. And that’s for nine months work.
It’s not defensible, and it is going to stop. Meanwhile, as they did in Greece, the pigs are squealing at the public trough.

An auto mechanic in general has a heck of a lot more common sense than the “average” teacher does today. Most of them have to go to school and also get certified. AND…… they are not taking a bunch of mickey mouse courses!!! I should know – MA in Ed. Twenty-five years of teaching!!

Again, Fascist Hyena, try comparing the salaries of people holding private sector jobs that require a college degree and certification. Then calculate how many years they have to work, how much experience they have to have to reach the average.
Can’t wait to see an apples to apples comparison.
Teachers, firefighters, cops and other public sector middle class workers are not pigs at the trough. They are human beings, middle class Americans and taxpayers, citizens who contribute to this great nation– deserving of the right to protest and express themselves. Deserving of the opportunity to stand up for themselves and bargain. Demonizing and calling them less than human makes you less human, not them.

It is like my Grandpa told me, the Republicans are all for the wealthy and the corporations but they will pretend like crazy that they care about ordinary people.
Wisconsin is a wonderful example. The governor gives tax breaks to the tune of $140 million to corporations then a few weeks later is taking $300 million from state workers. And he wants to take away their collective bargaining for wages and work rules!
Wouldn’t you love to know how he will fully balance the budget if these are his first two moves? The total shortfall is $3.6 billion. The middle-class in Wisconsin is about to get robbed but I bet the wealthy will get by without any loss.

I am awaiting the first union denunciation of the Hitler and crosshairs posters.

What happens when you have more people riding in the cart than are pulling it? Enter Obama and the mushrooming public sector. Public sector earned dollars do little for the economy compared to private sector earned dollars. You got – the cart stops. Sooner or later it will stop. In all probability with our children and grandchildren getting “STUCK” with the bill.

I do not want this president to be successful in his “economic” agenda. Socialism did not work in Europe and will not work here. Give me a rich fatcat who will employ people any day over a pathetic lib complaining about his rights – ESPECIALLY WHEN THE TAXPAYER IS PICKING UP THE TAB!!

“Wisconsin teachers pay as much as $1100 each year in compulsory union dues. If the legislation passes, they will no longer be required to pay those dues – returning that money to their own pockets.”
draconian

Political thuggery: “”Public employees are willing to contribute their pound of flesh. He wasn’t even willing to talk to the teacher unions despite 17 separate requests from them for meetings with him.”
You mean like when Obama refused to meet with Republicans until Scott Brown was elected and he saw the tide turning?
ELECTIONS HAVE CONSEQUENCES. Unless you’re a Democrat, then you try to ignore the will of the people, don’t perform your legal duties, waive crude political signs, and use violence and intimidation to get what you want because the voters are too stupid to agree that you should keep giving them more and more of your money.

No one here has yet shown the courage to respond to FDR’s wise counsel.
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Feb 18, 2011 1:48:19 PM
Try Salon: “Why FDR would support the Wisconsin protests;A labor historian explains: Roosevelt opposed government unions, but by the ’50s he would have changed his mind.”
What I find more interesting is the discussion about why those employed in the private sector and lean right are so bitter: “the private sector has done so poorly at creating a really broad growing thriving middle class in the past 20 years. And without a broad growing, thriving middle class, government workers are increasingly isolated and increasingly under threat and it is easy to play the dynamic this way, unfortunately for them.”

draconian
Posted by: Foghorn Leghorn | Feb 18, 2011 2:09:40 PM
Obviously, they’d rather pay their dues than be stripped of rights.
Worker rights are human rights.

Lydia wrote:
“nope they didn’t compare like occupations and locations. Obviously an accountant in N.Y….”
Again, it’s apparent that you haven’t even read it, because you’re still trying to deny that they compared like occupations, which they did.
And without a shred of evidence to support it, you now desperately lunge to grab onto ‘they didn’t compare them in the same locations’.

“Give me a rich fatcat who will employ people”
I think we all agree that we would like to find such a man. Especially one who is willing to create jobs in the US.
That’s the problem. The “Job Creators” that the Republicans want us to bow and worship…. we can never bow as low as Third World Sweatshop workers. Why pay an American minimum wage when there is a child in Pakistan who can be chained to a sewing machine and forced to work at gunpoint?
The Republicans need to just say it plain…. we need to roll back our labor laws about 100 years, we need to roll back our standard of living, we need to roll back our aspirations…. so we can compete with child labor in China.
No wonder they find unions so offensive.

Perhaps the greedy pigs will next be oinking and squealing at New York City’s trough:
“Mayor Bloomberg vowed yesterday to keep up the pressure on state lawmakers to abolish the ‘last in, first out’ rules for laying off city teachers as he unveiled a $65.6 billion spending plan that calls for the largest reduction in the teaching force since the 1970s.
“’In terms of doing with fewer teachers, that’s the budget reality, and that’s one of the reasons why you need [to change] LIFO. The fact of the matter is not everybody is a great teacher. What we’ve got to constantly do is improve the pool and making sure better people are working,’ Bloomberg said.”

Blip -did you actually objectively analyze an issue without trashing the person involved? The message sent in “Atlas Shrugged” is exactly what is happening today in the US. Any Rand knew a “little more” about the USSR – as she came from there.

“The message sent in “Atlas Shrugged” is exactly what is happening today in the US.”
To an extent, you are right. Except that our individual hopes and dreams are not being crushed by the government.
They are being crushed by big businesses which can cut our workers off at the knees by sending their jobs overseas, sucking all the equity out of our greatest asset (our homes), and withdrawing from the social contract….
America is not dying because our workers are paid too well.
America is dying because we have no belief in our own society.
We are a nation run by selfish, Randian brats… who, much like their idol, have benefitted immensely from the common sacrifice of the American people, but are willing to “shrug” off their obligation to this great nation when the time comes for them to pay it forward.
I only point out Rand’s hypocrisy because it ironically supports my claim that Objectivism is an unworkable theory for self-absorbed juveniles.

The laws of economics cannot and will not be repealed
——————-
But they will be misrepresented. This oft repeated claim that companies aren’t hiring because of uncertainty is convenient hyperbole…there is always uncertainty in business. The lack of hiring can be accounted for by lack of demand alone.

A new poll from the Washington-based Clarus Group asked:
Do you think government employees should be represented by labor unions that bargain for higher pay, benefits and pensions … or do you think government employees should not be represented by labor unions?
A full 64% of the respondents said “no.”
That includes 42% of Democrats, and an overwhelming majority of Republicans. Only 49% of Democrats think public workers should be in unions at all.
That’s on the fundamental right to organize, before you get to wages and benefits. And that puts Scott Walker in a pretty good political place.
We’re winning in the court of public opinion.

“A full 64% of the respondents said “no.”"
The Clarus Group also did a poll on public support for corporations…. and got similar numbers.
So, following your logic… the government should try to take down business, too.
Sign me up, comrade!

The real news from Wisconsin:
In its Jan. 31 memo to legislators on the condition of the state’s budget, the Fiscal Bureau determined that the state will end the year with a balance of $121.4 million.
Walker claims there is a $137 million deficit — it is not because of a drop in revenues or increases in the cost of state employee contracts, benefits or pensions. It is because Walker and his allies pushed through $140 million in new spending for special-interest groups in January. If the Legislature were simply to rescind Walker’s new spending schemes — or delay their implementation until they are offset by fresh revenues — the “crisis” would not exist.

From One Wisconsin Now:
Walker has approved $140 million in new special-interest spending that includes:
“• $25 million for an economic development fund for job creation that still has $73 million due to a lack of job creation. Walker is creating a $25 million hole which will not create or retain jobs.
“• $48 million for private health savings accounts, which primarily benefit the wealthy. A study from the federal Governmental Accountability Office showed the average adjusted gross income of HSA participants was $139,000 and nearly half of HSA participants reported withdrawing nothing from their HSA, evidence that it is serving as a tax shelter for wealthy participants.
“• $67 million for a tax shift plan, so ill-conceived that at best the benefit provided to ‘job creators’ would be less than a dollar a day per new job, and may be as little as 30 cents a day.”

Way to go Governor Walker. You told the voters what you would do had the guts to follow through. You are a “Statesman” not a political hack the protesters are used to deal with. Good show!!

Fascist Hyena, the average pay for a Wisconsin teacher is $48,000 not the ridiculous $89,000 you quoted. Make a point but don’t spread lies.

Fascist Hyena, the average pay for a Wisconsin teacher is $48,000 not the ridiculous $89,000 you quoted. Make a point but don’t spread lies.
Posted by: Lydia |
I don’t see any mention of the ~30K in benefits they receive in your response. Countering a “lie” with a half-truth is typically a poor strategy.

Re “Atlas Shrugged.” Most widely read published book next to the Christian Bible. Not bad for a “Horrible, poorly written book. Talk about being in denial!!
Posted by: temagami | Feb 18, 2011 3:39:18 PM
If you’re talking about yourself being in denial, then yeah, let’s talk about it, because a lot of horribly written books from an art and literature standpoint sell well given the tendency of the average person not to be put off by redundancy. In fact, the unwashed masses tend to need it so as not to miss a point.The beating over the head, the long passages of exposition in the form of boring and stilted lectures and the over the top telling versus showing appeals to them.
It doesn’t change my point or make me wrong. It’s horribly, horribly written, and the ideas are not all that profound. Rand herself was a mess
(great post @ 3:09:40 PM, BLIP)

“A new statewide poll shows that 65 percent of Wisconsin residents think that Walker has gone too far in his attack on public employees. ”
He can be recalled next January.

Recalling the Governor does not “recall” the deficit…..”We’re broke.” Gotta love “maybe if we ignore the bills they will go away” Dems….

Pelosi told reporters Friday that the protests are “an extraordinary show of democracy in action.”
. . . and then she says what about Tea Party rallies?
It’s more like “an extraordinary show of hypocrisy in action” on the part of Pelosi, Obama, and other double standard liberals in politics. What part of
‘cut back on government spending” do these people not understand?

Most people think that “Democracy in action” means elections–like we had in November–and legislators convening to legislate. The bubble-headed Pelosi thunks something else.
Hard-working people who make their way in the private sector are nauseated at the spectacle of greedy, tenured parasitic vermin shrieking and bawling at the public trough.

“We all remember how liberal news coverage of tea party rallies rarely failed to note that they were “predominantly white.” Somehow, that is no longer a salient fact when the same outlets cover illegal sick-outs by Wisconsin teachers. Why would that be?”

Hard-working people who make their way in the private sector are nauseated at the spectacle of greedy, tenured parasitic vermin shrieking and bawling at the public trough
———————–
People who provide government services whether it is debated whether they are overcompensated or not are only considered parasites by nauseating corporate peons who willing grab their ankles for their taskmasters to assuage their petty fears and elect true parasites to elected office, who make no meaningful contribution to government, but rather sell it out to the highest bidders instead.

“What about certainty for workers!” – Blip
You work.
You make money.
Later on you die.
Oh and I almost forgot
You Pay Taxes, sometimes even after you die.

Lydia wrote:
” It is a fact that federal employees are not paid more than private employees for the same job. I get my info from factcheck rather than a partisan group like the Cato Institute where usa today got their info.
We all need to be careful where the original source comes from, as skewed results from the truth are easy enough to create with a little tweak. ”
You continue to prove that you’ve not even read the information you are claiming to refute.
No, USA Today didn’t get their data from Cato.
There’s this thing called google. Why don’t you use it to read the USA Today article and maybe you’ll stop making yourself look……..nah, never mind you won’t read it.

what makes unions think they are better and privileged then the regular working middle class that has to cut back?
Even Obama in his speeches said it tough time and we all have to tighten our belts.
Dose that mean only the middle class and not his union buddies?
His We are Arizona speech about being civil was just a bunch of baloney
I am glad I am not paying union dues for this …
Nice lesson for the children if you want something be a bully even to your parents

Lydia,
Apparently you don’t watch ABC World News Tonight. They did their own fact check last night and showed that public employees generally get paid more, although occasionally there are exceptions (like for accountants).
And they are far more likely to get health benefits and pensions, and when they do they pay much less for them than in the private sector.
You need to get your facts straight.

ABC, why aren’t you showing the crosshairs posters with the governor in the crosshairs?

I’m not a union member. I’m not even a big fan of unions, but I don’t have a pathological disdain for government and government workers, and have little respect for those who seek to vilify people who really work for a living but are accused of being overpaid. Especially with the huge disparity in incomes which exists today. You want to see real pigs squealing at real troughs? -Real BIG troughs…make industry clean up their emissions without squealing about it. The cost passed to the consumer would only be marginal at best.
Posted by: Skip |
I’m not sure where the pathological line is but we both express buckets of disdain on a daily basis. My view would be that lack of disdain of government is pathological.
Consider that the S&L crisis of the late 80′s saw hundreds of bankers go to prison. Fast forward to the sub-prime mortgage cdo financial meltdown. Not one banker has seen jail time.
Don’t miss Matt Taibbi’s current “Why isn’t Wall Street in Jail?”.

There they go, its the ‘Activists’ from Tea Party, better known as the Opportunist Party, and they brought a message from their party leader Little General Sarah Palin, they wanted a piece of Wisconsin action too.

“We all remember how liberal news coverage of tea party rallies rarely failed to note that they were “predominantly white.” Somehow, that is no longer a salient fact when the same outlets cover illegal sick-outs by Wisconsin teachers. Why would that be?”
Posted by: Fascist Hyena | Feb 18, 2011 11:31:14 PM
90% of Wisconsin is caucasian and the crowds of protestors are roughly 90% caucasian in keeping with the composition of the state. In addition, there isn’t an overdose of signage that is blatantly racist. Hate groups had booths at several tea party rallies and there was racist signage. Moreover, many were probably looking for any clues as to whether the tea party would pull the Republican party toward becoming more inclusive. It wasn’t to be.

This is in reply to Verne.
Who told you that we all wanted the Tea Party to get our country back.
Are you nuts, how can we liberals even think such a thing.

The tea party leader is not Palin, it is Koch Industries.
Posted by: Flash Override | Feb 19, 2011 3:15:40 PM
Yep, and the new House spending bill is a wet dream for them as it goes after the EPA, barring them from regulating greenhouse gas emissions and stopping them from enforcing clean-water rules. Unbelievable.

Yes Alyson, you are right.
They want to believe that the climate
change is just a phase and the
environment has undergone such
changes for thousands of years.
Little do they have feeling for our
children and the next generation.

Isn’t it funny that the survey done by the Clarus Group only asked one question and got a negative response towards unions but the Pew Research Survey showed 45 to 41 in favor of unions in general, 48 to 40 for unions representing public workers and 48 to 37 in favor of unions representing workers in private companies?
This tells me that the wording of the Clarus Group, specifically that it mentioned unions representing public workers bargaining for higher pay and pensions made taxpayers nervous. It does not mean the majority doesn’t support unions as a very good thing.
Every working person should support the protesters efforts in Wisconsin. Unions are the only thing between us and a constantly lowered standard of living if the wealthy had their way.
Jose, I do have my facts straight. Read the article in the news section of abc.

shouldnt it be against the law..for a org..to donate money to a political party ..with tax payers dollars….

Smartethenyou, I wouldn’t believe the news service you quoted as it is written by a ultra-right wing source. Especially since every major news source I just checked has the average salary for Wisconsin teachers at $48,000, ranked 26th amongst all the states.
It would be more honest to google or just fact check with major news sources than to quote one little group with a strong bias, and apparently the will to bend the truth.
What do you think about the Wisconsin governor claiming a $137 million dollar deficit at the same point in time as he pushed through $140 million in tax breaks for corporations? I smell a rat.

Tom Barnow, I need to add to the list of reasons why Wisconsin is out of money. Since 2003 they have made a series of tax cuts that have cut their states income by $3.7 billion.
While the Governor of Wisconsin is calling a $137 million shortfall this year, others estimate they will break even.
So has the Governor set up this situation to be a budget crisis when there wasn’t any before his new tax breaks? Is his agenda really union busting as well as taking money from the teachers, etc. to give more tax breaks to the wealthy?
Those 70,000 protesters seem to be right to object to this new governor’s manipulative actions.

Lydia wants Wisconsin to raise taxes. The people of Wisconsin don’t want to pay more taxes. Instead they want to break the corrupt circle of Democrat politicians bargaining with public employee unions with the taxpayers’ money.
It is democracy in action. The rate of taxation in Wisconsin will be determined by its elected officials, not by grotesquely pampered unions.

Congratulations to the UW doctors and the overpaid public-employee teachers for conspiring to issue false medical certifications of illness.
FDR understood that it was improper and unwise for public employees to unionize. Now we see why, and the error is going to be corrected.

“Walker isn’t at fault for the current year’s shortfall, but he is at fault for making the shortfall worse over the next two-year cycle.Wisconsin’s public sector workers have already taken a 3% cut in wages over the past two years. Maybe that’s enough, maybe it isn’t. But Walker has taken an already pressing problem, made it incrementally worse, and then used it not just as an excuse to bargain hard on wages and benefits, but as an excuse to gut Wisconsin’s public unions entirely. (The Democratic-leaning ones, anyway.) It’s just not a good faith exercise.”

“Right to work” states are “killing” states like Wisconsin and Ohio where I am from. People are leaving northern states in droves for the south and southwest where there the jobs are going to “AND WHERE THERE ARE NO LOCAL AND STATE TAXES TO PAY FOR AN INFLATED PUBLIC SECTOR!!

fascist hyena, stop misrepresenting what I said.
The governor pushed through tax breaks weeks before he declared a shortfall of the same amount. That is simply abhorrent. He is clearly trying to bust the unions. Working people everywhere should understand the principle that no unions would mean working for minimum wage eventually, little benefits, etc.

Foghorn Leghorn, which party pushed through the financial de-regulation that caused the banking crisis? Which party always screams that regulation has to go? The Republican party lacks the logic to see that the degree to which they allow corporations to act unfettered, the economy, small business and the middle class is hurt.
Did you know that small businesses must now wait as long as 60, 90 or 120 days to be paid for their goods or services sold to big corporations, instead of the customary 30 days? Yeah, tell me how that won’t hurt small businesses big time. If government won’t regulate, the greed of corporations will kill our economy.

People are leaving northern states in droves for the south and southwest where there the jobs are going to “AND WHERE THERE ARE NO LOCAL AND STATE TAXES TO PAY FOR AN INFLATED PUBLIC SECTOR!!
Posted by: Tom Barnow |
These refugees present a big problem for their destinations as vox day points out…
“Needless to say, no matter where they go, this couple will cling to their liberal Obama-voting ideology and continue to demand the very big government that they fled in Illinois. They are ideological disease carriers. The only viable solution I can imagine is permitting such refugees to move into a limited government state if they are willing to sign a consent form giving up their right to vote for as long as they were resident in their former state. Although perhaps even that is taking too big a risk since they’ll probably settle in an enclave of like-minded carriers. This should be a legally defensible approach since if one doesn’t wish to give up one’s right to vote, one doesn’t have to reside there.”

Alyson,
The average Wisconsin teacher gets $25,000 each year in benefits on top of their $50,000 salary.
You can just focus on salary to try to make your point, but that would be intellectually dishonest.

This is class warfare, plain and simple.
Posted by: Lydia | Feb 20, 2011 11:08:45 AM
Yes. The GOP of the last decade defined itself by its warmongering and government and surveillance state building in the name of “the war terror.” It engaged in other wars covertly. This decade’s GOP is dropping the pretense and engaging in a flat-out war on the middle class, science, common sense and women.

You can just focus on salary to try to make your point…
Posted by: Jose | Feb 20, 2011 1:19:53 PM
Oh, I won’t just focus on salary. I’ll include this as well:
“Only 5 states do not have collective bargaining for educators and have deemed it illegal. Those states and their ranking on ACT/SAT scores are as follows:
South Carolina – 50th
North Carolina – 49th
Georgia – 48th
Texas – 47th
Virginia – 44th”
Busting up those unions sure solved a lot of problems… not.
Wisconsin ranked 2nd in the country.

Alyson – you are assuming that there is some sort of correlation between ACT scores and collective bargaining? Just what is it? When I was a child the local teachers in our public schools had no union.I would NOT trade the education that I received then for what is passing as education today. Retired Catholic (and public) middle school teacher from Cleveland.

@Lydia
Which party controlled all of Washington the last two years and couldn’t find one crook on all of Wall Street?
See bankers are smart enough to “influence” politicians in both parties. Did you know that?

I just saw the news that Columbia University sudents heckled a wounded Iraqi war vet who was to speak on campus. Do you want these lowlifes teaching your kids? Actually, I’m a little surprised that these students weren’t in Madison.

make that second BEST city in which to educate a child… impressive, right?
And on another note, “Before the emergence of public unions, public employees were compensated significantly less than people in the private sector. The reason? Much of the private sector work force was unionized. What changed is not the public employees got a better deal, but that the private sector became deunionized, lost the right to bargain collectively, and saw their compensation and benefits stagnate or fall. …What’s really happened is that people who can’t bargain collectively have been screwed for so long that all of a sudden they looked around and realized someone else was getting a better deal. Now it’s time to make sure the teachers are screwed as bad…”

I think the low ACT scores for the states without teacher unions is a direct effect of low wages for teachers. Who would want to spend 4 or more years in college to earn a low wage? So the quality of teachers will be lower in those state. I’ve seen the same thing happen in my area in religious schools. They don’t have unions, pay very low wages and attract unqualified people who can’t find jobs in public schools. My son attended one year in 7th grade, the parent-teacher conferences were an eye-opener. For example his English teacher met me in her classroom which was strewn with assignments & papers, at least fifty. When I asked what was going on, she said the students threw them on the floor and she couldn’t get them to pick them up!
This same teacher is now principal of that school!
You get what you pay for.

Tom Barnow, how you can equate protesting injustice in a way that won’t get you fired, with being a low-life is beyond me.

If it’s so “reckless” to shut down the government, why have Wisconsin legislators, the President and the DNC all supported the government shutdown in Wisconsin?

Anyone should be able to see that this governor of Wisconsin created the budget shortfall there when he signed a $140 million tax break for corporations a few weeks ago. Now the state is short $137 million. How is that okay? Those teachers he wants that money from are simple middle-class, a 5% paycut is a lot to take.
But the real evil is the governor wanting to end collective bargaining rights. That will lead to a very weak education system in that state, now ranked one of the best. The 4 states without collective bargaining have very low salaries & have the lowest test scores for their students. Why would anyone go to college for over 4 years to have a low paying job as a career?
May the protestors have strength to continue the fight on behalf of teachers, firemen, police and other state workers everywhere. This is class warfare against the middle class.

Why do these politicians keep pulling for MERIT based pay? Is that so they can reward their friends and the brown nosers? Isn’t that what this is all about. People wake up, you are losing RIGHTS! If you can’t see that, you need your teachers, desperately.

Unlike union workers, who all pay taxes, two-thirds of corporations in Wisconsin pay no taxes.

Flash Override wrote:
“Unlike union workers, who all pay taxes”
The lower 45% of American wage earners pay ZERO income taxes.
Since these union members must be in the upper brackets, how come they cant pay 6% of their health care insurance premiums like the Governor asks them to?
Most Americans with employer provided insurance still end up paying anywhere between 15-30% of their health care insurance premium each month.
Why should these union members who you admit have good incomes then pay ZERO for their health care?
Obama said of America’s future:
“Everyone must sacrifice for the greater good… Everyone must have some skin in the game.”
Why aren’t these unionites listening to the President?

I cant believe in these times , there are still people so misinformed that they would still be taking the side of big business over theyre fellow Americans. unreal.Its crazy.