Jun 30, 2011 6:00pm

White House Chief of Staff on Debt Ceiling: No Veto Threat But GOP Can’t Worry About ‘Feelings’

The White House Chief of Staff refused to issue a veto threat if the debt ceiling compromise doesn't include the president’s demand of tax increases. But Bill Daley did have a strong message for the Republicans: get tough.

Following President Obama’s feisty press conference yesterday Republicans on Capitol Hill didn’t seem any closer to reaching a deal. So I asked Daley if he’s concerned that Obama’s bluntness drove the two sides further apart?

“I find it ironic that at times people who continually attack the president, beat him up on not only on policy, personality, a whole bunch of things, the minute he takes a tone that is a little more direct, and it was not personal, it was direct in that the leaders of Congress in both parties and especially those who are saying that revenue are off the table period in trying to solve this problem, that somehow that’s going to hurt the feelings of people. This is not a time to worry about feelings, this is a time to get results,” Daley told me. 

But despite the tough talk Daley would not threaten a veto if Congress doesn’t meet the president’s demand for a balanced package. Instead the chief of staff said that informal talks continue and he’s “optimistic” that the leaders will do the “people’s business, not the Parties’ business.”

“The president will sign an extension to the debt ceiling that begins to make a serious impact on the deficit, that is balanced, that brings some balance and does not do it strictly on the backs of the American people by changing Medicare…George, I’m not going to say what the final solution will be, but believe me this president feels strongly that there must be sacrifice and both parties have to step forward, the leaders of the parties have to step forward and be willing,” he said. 

Suspicions are swirling that the August 2nd debt ceiling deadline set by the Treasury Department is not firm and that Sec. Geithner could find ways around it if he wanted. Daley said it is “crazy” to risk our financial reputation by squabbling over a day or two – but he did leave wiggle room.

“No one should take any solace in the fact that it may be an hour — a day earlier, or a day later or an hour earlier – this is, to even have that discussion is getting away from and trying to divert away from the fact that we’ve got to solve the budget deficit problem,” he told me. 

After all, Daley said, it was Congress that “passed all the legislation that created the deficit that we are in and they must solve this problem and the president is, has been and continues to be the force of trying to bring people together.”

George Stephanopoulos

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User Comments

Obama’s leaving town!

Posted by: LongT | June 30, 2011, 6:09 pm 6:09 pm

“…trying to bring people together.” Who? Obama? The race baiter? The one who sues states? The “We won.” guy? Obama, Daley, Ryan, Blago, Capone, Dillinger – all from the same state and all takers, liars, and thieves.

Posted by: n'erdowell | June 30, 2011, 6:44 pm 6:44 pm

A true fiscal conservative would never risk the entire US economic system to score an ideological victory.
The core of Republican political representation – from Governors to Congress – has shifted to Libertarian extremism.
These politicians believe our nation should be an Ayn Rand dystopia where corporations are “people” and the poor, unemployed, elderly or downtrodden are worthless sponges.

Posted by: green.goddess | June 30, 2011, 6:47 pm 6:47 pm

Could you quote what then Sen Obama said about the debt ceiling under Bush? A little hipocritical? No. A lot.

Posted by: deanbob | June 30, 2011, 7:07 pm 7:07 pm

After berating the Congress for not doing their job (despite out golfing Bush by many many rounds in only 2 years), he leaves for fund raising. Hipocritical – again!

Posted by: deanbob | June 30, 2011, 7:10 pm 7:10 pm

In addition to Holder, I wonder if the President knew about the gun running to Mexico as it was ongoing? Too much lying going on.

Posted by: deanbob | June 30, 2011, 7:13 pm 7:13 pm

Dowell gets more idiotic as the months roll on. Must be dementia.

Posted by: Secondlook | June 30, 2011, 8:55 pm 8:55 pm

What is it with conservatives and deficit? How come there is never any single Republican admin in the past 70 years that reduced or balanced a budget? Those that did are all Democrats! I think we need to drive out all republicans from power if we want fiscal sanity. That is the fact and not rhetoric. Give them a thriving economy and surplus, they give us wars that is counting 4.4 Trillion and counting, tax cuts that gave us 0 Net jobs and an economic armagedon, and Trillions of projected deficits. Reality vs rhteoric!

Posted by: zazu | June 30, 2011, 9:10 pm 9:10 pm

Dean Bob,
How is that a hypocrisy exactly? Did Bush and all the Republicans that are crying out “holy” now cut anything in response to raising the debt limit repeatedly since 2000? No! This president said, he is going to cut spending in connection, with the debt limit. If you are serious, hypocrisy is those who have voted again and agian (your current repub leaders) who are now pretending to get the religion of fiscal sanity! You too sir by extension!

Posted by: zazu | June 30, 2011, 9:13 pm 9:13 pm

Don’t give in Mr. President! Don’t do it!

Posted by: justayreal74 | June 30, 2011, 11:14 pm 11:14 pm

This is money Congress already spent over the past 10 plus years and now they don’t want to pay their debt. The GOP is holding out because they don’t want taxes raised on the top 2% of rich Americans, that means taxes raised on 2 out of every 100 people for all of you stupid GOP lovers who will never be in the top 2% of wealth. The GOP only support the wealthy and no body posting on this site are wealthy.

Posted by: Jason | June 30, 2011, 11:22 pm 11:22 pm

Why has Obama not offered his plan?
Why does he tell congress to consider skipping 4th of July to work, and he whisks off to another fundraiser?
Obama will wait until about 2 days before the arbitrary “doomsday deadline”, and then present a plan, which he hasn’t read, and say, “pass it now, or you hate 8-year-olds with autism.
pathetic, race-baiting, class-warfare propagandist. Where’s the substance? No stance.

Posted by: dbright | July 1, 2011, 3:43 am 3:43 am

Once again the Obama administration is trying to cover its tracks by scapegoating someone. At no point has this administration offered anything like a solution on any issue. Instead it offers attacks on the people who create the jobs. If budget talks fail it will be the results of Obama refusing to admit his mistakes and act responsibly.

Posted by: Rick | July 1, 2011, 6:45 am 6:45 am

Some suggestions for the anti American GOP economic terrorists on how to get the budget balanced and create surpluses as President Clinton was able to do.
1)Defund the tax cuts for the rich and the taxpayer subsidies to global corporations making record profits so Federal revenues get back to 1950 levels.
2) Tax ALL income for Medicare and Social Security, not just wages.
3) Criminalize moving money to offshore accounts to avoid taxes.
4) Criminalize speculation in oil like we do kiddie porn. Let supply and demand determine the price.
5) Encourage children to eat properly, exercise and get an education so they can outsmart the inbred morons who seem to breed very rapidly.
6) Stop cutting funds for education, including teachers, so our schools can produce scholars capable of competing in the global marketplace.

Posted by: MarineVet | July 1, 2011, 7:02 am 7:02 am

Where is Obama??? I sure hope he is working on the debt problem and not off on some vacation. Oh wait, he is on vacation. Oh well, lied to again.

Posted by: billy bob | July 1, 2011, 10:53 am 10:53 am

Some suggestions for the anti American GOP economic terrorists on how to get the budget balanced and create surpluses as President Clinton was able to do.
1)Defund the tax cuts for the rich and the taxpayer subsidies to global corporations making record profits so Federal revenues get back to 1950 levels.
2) Tax ALL income for Medicare and Social Security, not just wages.
3) Criminalize moving money to offshore accounts to avoid taxes.
4) Criminalize speculation in oil like we do kiddie porn. Let supply and demand determine the price.
5) Encourage children to eat properly, exercise and get an education so they can outsmart the inbred morons who seem to breed very rapidly.
6) Stop cutting funds for education, including teachers, so our schools can produce scholars capable of competing in the global marketplace.
Posted by: MarineVet | Jul 1, 2011 7:02:20 AM
Response to the above.
1. Tax corporations more even though we have one of the highest tax rates in the world and are competing globably.? DUH.
2. Tax all income more??? Raise taxes on everyone??? That would help the economy??? DUH.
3. Criminalise speculation??? Impossible, most is done in overseas markets. DUH.
4. I actually agree but the government cannot do this, parents have to do this. DUH.
5. Stop cutting funds for education??? Slower economy means reduced funding. Taking back our schools from the unions that are lining their pockets is not cutting funds.DUH.
Do you have any more great suggestions???

Posted by: billy bob | July 1, 2011, 11:04 am 11:04 am

Billy Bob, your repeated use of DUH says it all. Exceptional education is a critical investment for our nation’s future competitive place in a global market. Where did you get the notion that education is simply lining unions’ pockets?
MarineVet’s suggestions are valid. If we are to pay off Trillions in debt accumulated from a decade of two wars and tax cuts for the wealthiest, then we need more income. For example, corporate tax rates could be LOWER if we simply close tax loopholes allowing huge corporations to pay nothing.
The bi-partisan Debt Commission report recommended expanding over 40 years the amount of workers’ income subject to the payroll tax, which funds Social Security. The report also proposes either significantly reducing or eliminating the hundreds of tax breaks in the federal code that reduce federal revenue intake by more than $1 trillion a year. Why is that stupid?

Posted by: green.goddess | July 1, 2011, 11:48 am 11:48 am

Feisty? I thought he looked hilarious trying to be “tough”, when we all know he’s nothing but a wuss. Again, hilariously.

Posted by: maniteu | July 1, 2011, 1:32 pm 1:32 pm

Im sick of Liberals repeating the LIE that Clinton somehow created a surplus through his policies. Mind telling me which one of his policies created that Miracle? He fought the Conservatives tooth and nail when they (The Conservatives) insisted on a balanced budget. Clinton offered up 5 budgets all of them creating a deficit. Clinton finally caved into their demands and poof we had a balanced budget. Clintons own internal Office of Management and Budget said in 1995 that 200 billion dollar deficits would occur as far as the eye can see. (Before Obama that is what a deficit looked like!!) IF Clinton had created a surplus or even a balanced budget why didn’t his own Budget office know about it???
Just goes to show you Liberals rewriting history…..

Posted by: Rick Allen | July 1, 2011, 9:59 pm 9:59 pm

A true fiscal conservative would never risk the entire US economic system to score an ideological victory.
Posted by: green.goddess | Jun 30, 2011 6:47:17 PM
Unfortunately the right is only interested in tactics that will get them re-elected. They are of such a mind set they are praying for poor economic news for the country – because they think it benefits them.

Posted by: Steve | July 2, 2011, 12:33 am 12:33 am

A true fiscal conservative would never risk the entire US economic system to score an ideological victory.
Posted by: green.goddess | Jun 30, 2011 6:47:17 PM
Unfortunately the right seems first and foremost interested in getting re-elected. Their philosophy is oppose everything the Democrats do, and escape responsibility.

Posted by: Steve | July 2, 2011, 12:38 am 12:38 am

I believe it was in March of this year that a Republican report came out saying that the deficit talks should be about 85% cuts and 15% tax increases. NOW the Dems have proposed 83% cuts and 17% taxes hikes. What have the Republicans done AGAIN -= NONONONONONO. Just like all of the other times the Republicans must say no to ANYTHING by a Democratic President. During 2012 I hope the Dems show all of this to the people so that they can see the Republican agenda has only 1 item – Obama as a 1 term president. Well, sorry but their hypocrisy is going to hurt them.

Posted by: kay | July 2, 2011, 7:56 am 7:56 am

Rick Allen…Clinton raised taxes, creating revenue, and balancing the budget. He raised taxes during his first term, to cries from the GOP, the GOP then won during mid-terms. The GOP then tried to claim they had something to do with balancing the budget and creating a surplus. When, in fact, it was the Clinton tax hikes during his first term, and under democratic control. Nice try on the spin.But your history is fuzzy.

Posted by: catsrboss | July 2, 2011, 10:08 am 10:08 am

IT SEEMS THE ULTRCONSERVATIVES ARE TRYING TO RE-IMPOSE THE PAST TIMES OF SEGREGATION AND SLAVERY. THEY FORGET THAT ONCE LIBERATION TRIUMPHS, THE PUBLIC GETS USED TO FREEDOM. WE DO NOT WANT TO SEE A LYBIA AND SYRIA-LIKE REPRESSION AND VIOLENCE IN THE UNITED STATES.
IF THE REPUBLICANS KEEP PUSHING NEGATIVELY, THEIRS WILL BE THE MAIN RESPONSIBILITY FOR IT. INDEPENDENTS SEE BOTH PARTIES AS EQUALLY RESPONSIBLE. I DO NOT THINK SO. THE DEMOCRATS ARE DEFENDING BASIC CIVIL FREEDOMS AND RIGHTS. THEIR COURAGE TO RESIST THE REPUBLICANS DOES NOT MAKE THEM EQUALLY IMMORAL. PROOF: IF THE CHRISTIAN GOD BATTLED THE DEVIL, DO CHRISTIANS NOW SEE HIM AS EQUALLY PERVERSE AS SATAN?
OF COURSE THEY DON’T! WAS AMERICA CORRUPT AS THE HITLER NAZI REGIME WAS?
OF COURSE NOT! SO WHY BLAME OUR PRESIDENT OBAMA? ARE DOCTORS EVIL BECAUSE OF FIGHTING OFF DESEASE? NO.
OUR PRESIDENT’S POLICIES HAVE BEEN PAINFUL, LIKE MEDICAL OPERATIONS FREQUENTLY ARE. SOME PAIN IS NEEDED TO RECOVER ONCE AND FOR ALL. THE PAST REPUBLICAN BROMIDES DID NOT LAST. SO DID THE REGAN REFORMS. THEY WERE JUST TEMPORARY SPRING BREAKS, NOT REAL STRONG SOLUTIONS. NOW WE GOT THE REAL GOOD MEDICINE, OF COURSE IT HURTS DEEPLY AS MOST DEEP WOUNDS DO.

Posted by: Moderate American | July 2, 2011, 2:28 pm 2:28 pm

THE PROBLEM WITH TRUE FISCAL CONSERVATISM IS THAT IT GETS RIGID AND FROZEN-UP, TOTALLY INACTIVE, OR WASTED ON BUILDING PARKS AND OTHER RELATIVELY SPEARABLE THINGS. PEOPLE CAN ALWAYS GO OUT WALK. ALTHOUGH IT IS TRUE PARKS ARE MAINLY USED BY WORKERS WHO GO EAT THEIR LUNCHES THERE, OR COUPLES, E.G., ORDINARY AMERICANS. SO NO WONDER THE FIRST AIM IN MINNESOTTA WAS A PUBLIC AMUSEMENT PARK.
AFTER ALL THE RICH LIVE IN PARK-LIKE NEIGHBORHOODS AND DO NOT USE PUBLIC PARKS. RATHER THE WORKING MIDDLE CLASS MOTHERS WHO TOOK THEIR CHILDREN TO PARKS WILL NOT BE ABLE TO RELAX WHILE THEIR KIDS SAFELY PLAY IN THE GRASS.
DON’T YOU SEE IT WOMEN/MOTHERS WHAT IT WOULD MEAN IF THE WASHINGTON MONUMENT IS SHUT DOWN? NO MORE TOURISTS COULD GO UP TO SEE ALL OF WASHINGTON. SO IF THE MINNESOTTA CRAZINESS EXPANDS, IT MAY GET TO WASHINGTON,D.C.
WHAT ABOUT THE FOUR PRESIDENTIAL FACES IN MOUNT RUSHMORE? HOW ABOUT NIAGARA FALLS? MANY US STATES HAVE SUCH HUGE MONUMENTS IN NATIONAL PARKS AND THE FEDERAL PAYS FOR THEIR REMAINING OPEN.
PLUS THEY PROVIDE JOBS AND ATTRACT TOURISM. THE MINESOTTA POLICY IS JUST CRAZY!

Posted by: Moderate American | July 2, 2011, 2:45 pm 2:45 pm

READ THE WIKIPEDIA ENCYLOPYDIA: CHRISTIANITY STARTED AS A COMMUNIST/SOCIALIST MOVEMENT. THE PHARISEES LED AT THE TOP OF JUDAISM, BUT THEIR SUPPOSED SUBDITS HATED THEIR OWN SUPPOSED BOSSES. SO WHAT IS THIS REPUBLICAN OBSESSION WITH SOCIALISM? WHY HATE THEIR ORIGINS? MOST OF ALL, WHY ACCUSE INNOCENT SUPERACHIEVERS LIKE PRESIDENT OBAMA OF BEING WHAT HE IS NOT?
MIRROR REFLECTION THEY BLAME ON AN INNOCENT BYSTANDER? MOST LIKELY.

Posted by: Moderate American | July 2, 2011, 2:54 pm 2:54 pm

The night after Osama bin Laden was killed, while US citizens were celebrating this milestone…Republicans quietly voted to kill a Democratic bill which would end subsidies to the oil industry…For crying out loud folks–Wake up! Republicans are in Congress to represent the very wealthy–Not you. And as for the “trickle down theory”, can anyone out there tell me how it has benefited them????

Posted by: greg | July 2, 2011, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm

“…trying to bring people together.” Who? Obama? The race baiter? The one who sues states? The “We won.” guy? Obama, Daley, Ryan, Blago, Capone, Dillinger – all from the same state and all takers, liars, and thieves.
Posted by: n’erdowell | Jun 30, 2011 6:44:05 PM
????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????
Oh for goodness sakes! The President is trying to work with a bunch of insecure punks who made no bones about not being willing to work with him, wanting him to fail as President and having as their main goal to make sure President Obama is a one term President. Now they are all over the Sunday morning talk shows whining because the President has told them to do their jobs.
Our country would not be in this mess today if Republicans actually did their jobs rather than trying to destroy the President. Republicans expect to do this on the backs of the middle class and poor. As long as Republicans won’t compromise all of their rhetoric is bull. They are playing to you gullible people who are more than willing to vote against your own best interest. You don’t seem to have a problem with Republicans constantly attacking our President but you want to whine because the President does his job and puts Republicans in their place? Republicans just can’t stand the idea that President Obama has embarrassed them once again and had the nerve to tell them to do their jobs. They have been whining, bi!ching and moaning ever since. Republicans need to grow up and stop holding our country hostage so they can destroy the President. Their game is old and out of place. Republicans are the problem, not the President. And people like you need to wake up and demand that your legislators do the job they were sent to Washington to do. CONGRESS makes the laws, not the President.
Oh, and your rant about Chicago and race baiting shows your ignorance, makes you look pathetic. The President a race baiter, ha, ha ha ha!!!! easy to say as you do that yourself

Posted by: catmom | July 3, 2011, 10:54 am 10:54 am

Democrats want to raise taxes and won’t sign on to a deficit reduction plan without them? Fine…I propose the following:
1) A new, 50% tax on all abortions (dems say they want to reduce them – here is their chance)
2) A 65% tax increase on union dues (probably the most valuable of all tax increases)
3) Elimination of all “green” energy tax breaks (green energy does not exist it only borrows from other real energy sources and therefore should not be subsidized)
4) A new, 15% tax increase for all liberals (simply put a check box on the 1040 form and wait for all the liberals to send their checks – I predict 3 people in the entire US will check the box in a clear sign of hypocrisy)
5) Increase income taxes on government employees (including house, senate, WH, and all of the czars)by 30%
6)Increase taxes by 10% on any college that produces graduates who cannot explain basic economic theory
7) Institute a minimum income tax of 18% (liberals complain some business owners pay no tax and conservatives point out that 45% pay no tax – a clear area for consensus)
8) Institute a future tax on all convicted criminals of 45% (they should begin to pay for the free room and board they received, not to mention the free medical care).
9) Institute a $10,000 “tax” on any illegal alien caught on US lands, in clear violation of our laws. If they cannot pay, send them to jail and see item 8.
10) Institute a 95% tax on arugula – only phoney, pretentious, arrogant, and incompetent people eat it anyway. Taxing away those traits would be a huge benefit to our nation.
There you go! Ten tax increases that Democrats and Republicans can agree on.

Posted by: Jenny | July 3, 2011, 11:37 am 11:37 am

Why would President Obama meet with the House Republican when they already walked out of talks regarding the deficit ceiling compromise, oh I guess it was because they already said they would not allow the tax breaks to the top 2% and business be on the table, they just wanted him to crawl over to them so that they would tell him again what they wanted and what he must do for them to raise the debt ceiling he was right to stay away until they agree that everything must be on the table

Posted by: realnard | July 3, 2011, 4:57 pm 4:57 pm

Social Security and Medicare are not entitlements. Quit lying GOP; but that is what you do best. Working class Americans have paid into these programs since FDR and JFK. Insurance is just that; insurance that is paid for by the buyer and entitlement by definition is a giveaway. The lying rhetoric on the part of the GOP needs to stop. Both Medicare and Social Security are sustainable and workable. Republicans want more tax cuts for millionaires and billionaires. Those still lucky enough to have jobs after republicans shipped them overseas are expected to balance the budget while big corporations continue to pay little or no taxes at all. Wake up America; you’re getting screwed and you’re not even enjoying it!

Posted by: T Trump | July 3, 2011, 6:20 pm 6:20 pm

THIS is a ‘game of CHICKEN’ that will bring about ‘disasterous results’ for the GOP. LOL…I am sitting here enjoying watching it. And it is their own fault. They are the ones that have pandered to the ‘emotionally shallow and religiously fanatical’ people of this country who (LOL) want to “Take their Country Back”…to a time and place it can never return to. LOL…This is what makes countries and civilizations decline, people. Whenever you fail to see the need to ‘progress’…you start trusting in ‘faith’ versus your own intellectual capacity, when you blindly want to ‘overpopulate’ your country – and ignore the bad social effects of that , and you want to ‘tear down’ needed safety nets you are headed in the wrong direction. The main problems with our nation today? One side is willing to compromise…the other isn’t. And the side that is unwilling wants to ‘drag us back to apast’ that NO LONGER EXISTS.

Posted by: CND FOX | July 4, 2011, 10:46 am 10:46 am

liberalism and socialism is what cause societies to decline…ask the romans and now the greeks about their empires.

Posted by: catman | July 5, 2011, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm

Green…I can help you out. I find it hillarious that you who is for spending more money on education knows so very little about education. There have been multiple studies done that clearly show throwing money at Education does not create educated people. This is probably why charter schools that spend less money educating have a tendency to produce better educated kids over the public school sector that spends more money but produces less educated kids. Wonder why teacher unions hate Charter schools so much.

Posted by: nameGamer24 | July 6, 2011, 8:52 am 8:52 am

Do you really think cuts to medicare and medicaid are acceptable even if they accompany tax increases? Obama might as well shut down his campaign for re-election now as far as I’m concerned. I don’t vote for republicans and I don’t vote for fake democrats.

Posted by: whatever | July 7, 2011, 5:25 am 5:25 am

The Republicans should make clear to Obama that tax increases are off the table and the debt ceiling has been reached, so if he wants to talk about anything they should only be receptive to the creation of a balanced budget and nothing else.

Posted by: Dr John Galt | July 7, 2011, 3:27 pm 3:27 pm

It’s time someone up there has the guts to stand up for us and keep this country from being another Greece. Who knows what this President stands for, he changes daily. What does Washington not understand about stop spending and start cutting? The media just helps them with their spin, no honor in journalism anymore. Sad.

Posted by: Freedom | July 9, 2011, 11:34 am 11:34 am

What in hell does Daley suggest that we do?…simply genuflect in front of our supposed leader? Daley knows better….he has some background in business…..he ought to stand on his own two feet and stop trying to make Obama something he ain’t! If the POTUS “organized communities” in his past, I would hate to know the results of his efforts. Bluntly, he is way over his head….neither the experience or ability to continue in the job to which he was elected………once.

Posted by: justj joey | July 14, 2011, 1:30 pm 1:30 pm

How can Republicans refuse to compromise on this? They would rather the US borrow money than raise taxes? Pay interest on it forever? We will wind up just like Greece.

Posted by: joec | July 15, 2011, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm

Does this place the Bush Tax Break that was extended for two years to expire in those two years and to never be granted again? If I say, “Way to go!”

Posted by: Elizabeth Brown | July 25, 2011, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm

How can Republicans refuse to compromise on this? They would rather the US borrow money than raise taxes? Pay interest on it forever? We will wind up just like Greece.
Posted by: joec | Jul 15, 2011 3:46:22 PM
Psst… Obama wants to do both, borrow money AND raise taxes.

Posted by: wheresmymoney | July 26, 2011, 3:04 pm 3:04 pm

After listening to our supposed repersetatives and our ellected leader it is clear that “Government of the Party, By the Party, and for the Party” has turned us into a third world country. I can see no evidence that any elected official is interested in doing anything other than advancing their party. Once again we have “Taxation without represtation”.

Posted by: Bob Esp | July 29, 2011, 11:10 am 11:10 am

i hope they can come to some kind of an agreement because my ssi check pays my bills and im disabled what to do if this does’nt happen

Posted by: angela heckathorn | July 29, 2011, 1:44 pm 1:44 pm

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