The 14th Amendment: A Debt Ceiling Back-Up Plan?

What is the world coming to? I have finally found agreement with something Tribe says. Although it might be appropriate to apply the same Amendment that grants citizenship to anchor babies, for this administration to consider the proposal from another individual who would be king is to so bend the Constitution is to make it totally unreadable.

I don’t think the wording in the Constitution defers authority to raise the U.S. debt limit to the president. It doesn’t say that. It says “the validity of the public debt shall not be questioned”. It could be just as valid to argue that whatever the congress decides, it can’t be questioned by the president or anyone else….as determined by congress. Same with taxes. The president does not have the authority to summarily raise taxes without congressional approval. Since when does this republic defer such things to a single individual?

If it comes to August 3rd and these fatalyst GOPhers have not acted Obama should invoke the 14th and unilaterally borrow.
Clinton is right.
Let the Courts decide and le us see whether they will side with the lunatics.

Really, that line in tyhe 14th Amendment could be interpeted as making those who impede any discussions or votes on the public debt, OR those who, through their opposition to said discussions and votes crimimally liable. Not to the level of traitors, notch – but certainly liable in a big way if the US has to default…
Maybe it’s time to actually start prosecuting those who are impeding the process.

Or, it’s kind of like Health Care being a right. You know, like life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Those government-given rights. Puh leeeze

‘But many congressional Republicans do not agree.’ No DUH ….THAT’S ALL THEY DO & ALL THEY ARE GOOD FOR….NUTHIN GETS DONE EXCEPT CHAOS…..THANKS GOP ….unbelievable….GOPs #1 goal -> Obama as a 1 term prez……Thanks GOP for WASTING EVERYONE’S TIME & MONEY FOR YOUR MONEY HUNGRY GIVE ME TAX BREAKS CAUSE IMMA JOB PROVIDER (for overseas) excuse me while I PUKE!

The Congress authorized by law the commitment of funds for this FY, that’s appropriations. The increase in the debt limit is needed to pay for expenditures this Congress autorized. So the entire Congress should be arrested, impeached, and tried for violating the Constitution. Catch 22 – the House impeaches and the Sentate tries members of Congress.

Seems an attempted liberal usurpation of the Constitution springs up almost daily now that the Constitutional lawyer from Harvard is in power. Is he having Clinton run the flag up to see kind of uproar it brings? Meanwhile Hillary is signing on to a UN small arms treaty specifically intended to throttle our 2nd Amendment. Folks, under a central GLOBAL government such as desired by George Soros, it would be the US citizens, rich and poor alike, who would suffer most, sacrificing all and losing our sacred identity.

If Arianna Huffington and Obmama had their ways, they’d be no Constitution.

H – It should be everyone’s priorty to make sure Obama is a one-term president.

The debt limit will be increased, artificial deadlines or not, and the US will not default on its debt obligations, unless Obama can figure some way to gain political advantage by defaulting. Seniors will get their SS, Medicare and Medicaid, the troops will be paid and the political manipulation opf the American public will continue, I guess ad infinitum, thanks to the utter failure of the education system to develop critical thought.

But you know how those Obama worshippers are.

Obama’s Czars are already trying to eliminate congress… hey… why not give MORE power to the President!! NOT!!!

The debate boils down to 10 words in Section 4 of the 14th Amendment, which, after pulling out a pocket-sized Constitution paper-clipped to the 14th Amendment, Treasury Secretary Timothy Geithner insisted on quoting in a June interview with Politico.
Turbo timmy says? WTH……..the guy claims he isn’t even smart enuff to do Turbo Tax? Hey Turbo, apparently you can’t comprehend the 14th amendment either.

Re: “Sen. John Cornyn, R- Texas, said it was “crazy talk.”
No, default is crazy talk. And so is cutting trillions of dollars from the budget without ending the wars. That’s where the debt comes from–endless war. GOP wants us to be some third world country whwere all of our tax dollars are spent on wars.
Obama needs to grow a pair and use the 14th Amendment.

Amendment,smadendment. Barack will do what he wants to do, spend what he wants to spend. The law is what Barack says it is.

it’s a moot point anyways. obama will not make this his alone to own. he will not place himself in the position of potentially being completely to blame if such a maneuver backfires either substantively or in the court of public opinion, regardless of the high reward that may come with success. obama leads from the rear and he will act similarly on this. he wants others to make decisions in order for him to either deflect criticism or take responsibility…but he will not put himself in the position as the sole entity that pushes this through. he doesn’t have the stones to do that.

Re: “What kind of fool would ever want the POTUS to EVER assume such power?”
Nobody does, but GOP lunatics have put our country in this position. Obama has to do what he can to avoid a default.

freesouth, yeah…because it was the union that started the shooting…oh, yeah, it was that yahoo edmund ruffin who fired the first shot…and who also wrapped himself in the confederate flag and blew his own brains out once he knew the war he started was lost and had completely destroyed the south. and just so you know i’m not some yankee agitator, i was actually raised on land that was owned by ruffin here in southern virginia.

Wow freesouth you completely represent the backwards thinking that comes from the right. You want to take us back 200 yrs and impose slavery on our fellow human beins and ofcourse noone from the right steps in to put you in your place because they hate just as much as you. This is the reason I would never vote republican because they only are looking out for white, straight christian men and could care less about anyone else in our country. Lincoln was a great President and he tried to set this country on the right course it needed to be when it comes to blacks.

Why do we have a law contolling the debt ceiling anyway? if Congress doesn;t want to accrue more debt, then Congress should not pass laws that accrue more debt. It makes no sense to pass laws to allocate funds, and then have another law that says we aren’t actually going to pay those bills.

H, i’m not a GOP’er clown or a democrat goofball…i may be a clown and/or goofball, but i’m a GDI clown/goofball all the way my friend. the two party system is a cancer.

AND WHILE THE PRESIDENTS ARE NOTHING BUT FASCIST DICTATORS WHY NOT TELL THE PEOPLE THE TRUTH ABOUT THE 16TH AMENDMENT; NOT ONLY IS THE 16TH AMENDMENT UNCONSTITUTIONAL BUT ALSO IT IS NOT IN LINE WITH THE MANY SUPREME COURT DECISIONS AFTER IT. IN OTHER WORDS, FEDERAL INCOME TAX IS A COMPLETE FRAUD BEING ENFORCED CONTRARY TO THE MANY SUPREME COURT DECISIONS FOLLOWING IT. SO CLINTON IS A DOG JUST LIKE THE REST.
REPEAL THE FEDERAL RESERVE ACT AND THE ILLEGAL UNCONSTITUTIONAL 16TH AMENDMENT.
THE PRESIDENTS SERVE THE SECRET OWNERS OF THE PRIVATE BANK CALLED THE FEDERAL RESERVE THAT’S WHY IT HAS NEVER BEEN AUDITED AND THE OWNER NAMES ARE NOT EVEN PUBIC FACT! IF THE FED DICTATES FOREIGN AND DOMESTIC POLICY CONTRARY TO THE US CONSTITUTION HOW CAN IT BE A DEMOCRACY -
IT CAN’T!!!

What a crock. Let’s also ignore that silly 4-year rule and just make BO our king.
There is plenty of money to service the debt, regardless of whether the ceiling is raised. Those are two separate decisions being joined at the hip by liberal liars.

This in an absolute outrage! The president thinks he can do whatever he wants with our lives, our money and our country. He has to be voted out of office next year! Why are Americans not standing in protest of this and the wars over seas, and still occupying other countries and the false war on drugs?!?!? Enough is absolutely enough with all of these politicians like Obama. They serve only the industrial war complex, big business and big pharma! We need Dr. Ron Paul for president in 2012 to take back our country, bring home the troops and stop the federal government from running us into the ground!!!

BLIS4US: “Why are Americans not standing in protest of this and the wars over seas….”
We stood up to protest the Iraq invasion and occupation BEFORE it happened, and we were dismissed as un-American.

Im so glad he is a 1 term preisdent ……he is a lawyer ….has never run a buisness he does not know what he is doing this is not a color issue ..its sure his stupity……down with Obama…….people wake up the democrats are killing this country of Gimmy Gimmy Gimmy , why would anyone want to depend on Government ….I love my Independence and my money …Im sick and tired of My Taxes paying for welfare and healthcare and Illegals who steal jobs ……and Teachers who do not teach …..No to Public Unions and No to the Debt ceiling being Raised..and No to The Dream Act for any Illegals in this country fix our borders and ship illegals back to their Country…US Citizens should be standing by each other …not fighting each other..what Obama is doing is Just wrong…..This is not a Black and white thing…this is an American Thing!!!!!!!!

That is what he should do, but hopefully won’t have to — the President does have the right to just raise it — (and, as an aside)they are also back bills and most payments and obligations no incurred by his administration. Something already done that has incurred debt, not some spending in the future.

LOL!……… Wait a minute?…. Wasn’t Republican Mitch McConnell just coming up with a plan ANYWAY to “give the president the authority” to raise the debt limit, and then the congress was going to cast a “disapproval” vote?
Oh, I see…LOL!…this would do basically the same thing, but, it’s a Democrat’s idea (Clinton) so the Republicans now have to oppose it!…… LMAO!…. what “looney tunes” those Republicans are.

T=party LOVES the Constitution, until it gets in the way of their way of their party.

Why do liberals keep comparing Obama to Bush? Both are big-spending liberals. The country cannot take 12 more years of the failed Bush/Obama policies. It’s time for a conservative as POTUS.

I see nothing in this Amendment to our Constitution that gives the President any power or authority to raise, lower or pay our debts. The 5th paragraph clearly gives that power to our Congress only.
Amendment 14
1. All persons born or naturalized in the United States, and subject to the
jurisdiction thereof, are citizens of the United States and of the State
wherein they reside. No State shall make or enforce any law which shall abridge
the privileges or immunities of citizens of the United States; nor shall any
State deprive any person of life, liberty, or property, without due process of
law; nor deny to any person within its jurisdiction the equal protection of the
laws.
2. Representatives shall be apportioned among the several States according to
their respective numbers, counting the whole number of persons in each State,
excluding Indians not taxed. But when the right to vote at any election for the
choice of electors for President and Vice-President of the United States,
Representatives in Congress, the Executive and Judicial officers of a State, or
the members of the Legislature thereof, is denied to any of the male
inhabitants of such State, being twenty-one years of age, and citizens of the
United States, or in any way abridged, except for participation in rebellion,
or other crime, the basis of representation therein shall be reduced in the
proportion which the number of such male citizens shall bear to the whole
number of male citizens twenty-one years of age in such State.
3. No person shall be a Senator or Representative in Congress, or elector of
President and Vice-President, or hold any office, civil or military, under the
United States, or under any State, who, having previously taken an oath, as a
member of Congress, or as an officer of the United States, or as a member of
any State legislature, or as an executive or judicial officer of any State, to
support the Constitution of the United States, shall have engaged in
insurrection or rebellion against the same, or given aid or comfort to the
enemies thereof. But Congress may by a vote of two-thirds of each House, remove
such disability.
4. The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law,
including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in
suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the
United States nor any State shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred
in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for
the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and
claims shall be held illegal and void.
5. The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the
provisions of this article.

That’s right! I don’t think Hillary gave him permission to make such a stupid statement. Of course maybe she did so he can get Barry impeached and she can run again in 2012 without Obama throwing her under the bus like in the last election.
LOL

Obama wants this taken to the supreme court but RIGHT NOW there are to many supremes that should (money buys SC love though) be against it unless Obama plans on there being a couple less Supremes ALL OF THE SUDDEN….I don’t see why he and Bubba on falling back on this.

Section 4 of the 14th Amendment starts out by stating, “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned.” Note that the debt needs to be authorized by law which would require an Act of Congress. It also indicates that entitlements such as pensions need to be paid and that the US is obligated to meet the obligations of the military payroll. These payments should be given priority.

Get back to God, people. Time is running out!

LINDA BRAZIER posted “..Im sick and tired of My Taxes paying for welfare and healthcare and Illegals who steal jobs ….”
And I’m sick and tired of our government starting war after war after war after war after war……

Cool! Nothing like getting all Constitutional in the fight against politicans!

I have heard that there is an emergency plan ready to go if all this happens. It’s called martial law and the Constitution is suspended and you malcontents are rounded up and put in re-education camps. You do know that FEMA has them right?

@Grumpopolis sez “authorized by law” refers to the incurred debt. The debt was authorized by congress in appropriations and budgets that have already been passed. It does not mean they get to vote on appropriations and obligations twice.” You are spot on, but don’t hold your breath until the Teapublicans process that. They’re hell bent on overturning the 2008 election. Obama won with the largest majority in quite some time and the Dems didn’t even have to attempt to rig the turnout like the Rs are doing in many states at this very minute. What a bunch of losers! Wah Wah Wah

President Clinton said it best. Obama should raise the debt limit and then let the Republicans take him to court.

Yep! The Republicans are all out here AGAIN(!) trying to kill the message on the basis of the messenger and accusing their “opponents” of the very things they themselves do! It is amazing that all Republicans do not cut off their LEFT hands and LEFT feet and put out their LEFT eyes just for bloody spite!
It has not been the Democrats trying to change the Constitution at every little turn, jrks! Republicans actually passed a law during the Bush term which “allowed” the president to SUSPEND the Constitution! Now when they find it maybe says they are full of beans, the Republicans are all fit to be tied.
Criminals all.

Only BO Octavian would try to use 14th Amendment to raise the Debt Limit without the Congress!

Contrary to Clinton’s assertions, the 14th Ammendment does not authorize the Prseident to unilaterally authorize an increase in the debt limit. The ability to regulate the obligations of the united States rests solely with Congress.
If the deadline is reached without agreement for raising the debt limit, the 14th would play a role. While the US would be prohibited by the debt limit from taking on new debts, the 14th would require that the Treasury pay all existing debts and (contractual) obligations before any other expenditure. As such, the US would still make payments on the interest for our accrued ebt, would still have to pay redemption of mature bonds, would be required to pay Social Security benefits, and could not delay or avoide paying contractors for work they have already done. The government could not, however, pay for the purchase of any new supplies, allow or authorize work by hourly-waged federal employees, enter into new contracts for goods or services, provide funds to any state (except where prexisting contracts require it), or spend money in any other way until all prexisting obligations and debts are paid first.
Effectively, this would shut down the federal government in much the same way as a failure to pass a budget would. It would not however, force uss to default on our debts as the fearmongering administration in the white house repeatedly keeps claiming.
If any debt or obligation is not paid, both President Obama and Secretary Geithner would be liable and they both could be impeached for their failure to obey the law and Constituion.

There will be no default. None. The debt obligations will be paid. The seniors will be paid. The troops will be paid. Medicare and Medicaid will continue to function. ANY politician who claims anything else is simply lying and he/she knows it. Everything the liberals love, however, could not be paid unless the debt limit is raised. This would force those in power to “put their cards on the table” and set priorities. OMG! But then the people would know as well!

Of course Bill Clinton would violate the constitution and force what liberals would call a “constitutional crisis” if the courts even considered a subsequent case. That’s not the point. A more important notation is that the liberals would consider using the amendment that “legalized” the citizenship of former slaves and prohibited southerns who had fought against the north from holding office to “claim” the right of spending what they want. Political hacks on both sides of the fence have no problem redefining words but most of us in the fields know that “validity” means nothing more than attributing legitimacy to something. Of course previous debt is legitimate since, as the 14th Amendment says in the 5th clause, the congress approved it either with appropriations or an increase in the allowable debt. Tribe is correct and Clinton is wrong. But being wrong never stopped any political hack and it certainly would not stop Obama. How appropriate for our “black” president to misuse the 14th Amendment.

Prof Buchanan argues that the 14th Amendment applies a test on any action, policy etc that would or could raise doubts as to the creditworthiness of US debt. Applying that logic, running budget deficits that incur high debt levels might be seen as also failing the test of the 14th amendment. In fact, rating agencies have already said that just avoiding default, without corresponding spending cuts, may not secure the US’s creditworthy status.
The Congress and the President have no choice but to quickly pass a temporary debt ceiling increase with matching real hard dollar spending cuts. Revenue generation is speculative. Only hard cuts can be identified and accounted for. No, the 14th amendment was not meant to be an escape excuse.

kdurham68 | Jul 21, 2011 7:03:51 AM
——A perfect explanation! Great post, ut the Dems use the fear mongering just as well as the GOP.

Pretty clear that courts will interpret this to mean those who hold US debt will get paid first i.e. interest and principle on tresuries. Not a good thing for creditors, military, and those waiting for SS checks. Congress has passed “Cut, Cap, and Balance” which includes a $2.4 trillion increase to the debt limit so they will not be at fault. Time for the Senate and Obama do do their jobs. “Tax and Spend” will no longer fly.

Oh, come on! Can we really expect today’s crop of post-Watergate Republicans to respect the Constitution?!

Interesting that Liberals read the 1st, 4th, 5th and 14th Amendments so loosely, but can’t seem to understand the relatively plain language of the 2nd A – which has a significance and meaning that is a lot clearer and a lot more important than abortion rights, pornography, commercial advertising, flag burning and the 7 Dirty Words. The Republicans that agree with this clear usurpation of Congressional authority on the budget are just as despicable. Go ahead Comrade Obama – let’s have this issue go to the Supreme Court.

Have we gone crazy? Who ever elected or even heard of some guy called Grover Norquist who by scheming political maneuvering exerts such power over sixty odd new representatives in the House beholden to him for their own self serving ambitions to get re-elected. His leadership of this tiny group of ultra right wing zealots gives him the power to vitally affect the lives of 330 million citizens. Has anyone elected him to wield such power over all of our lives?? The President should do whatever it takes to preserve the welfare of this country by invoking the 14th Amendment. Even the current Supreme Court will invoke common sense in making the correct decision

I don’t see how it would be up to the courts to decide. This is the constitution. What would the courts do? deem the 14th Amendment unconstitutional. Second, An impeachment would never happen. Having said that, both parties should find a way to cut the deficit and control the debt on a bipartisan basis. The best way to get it done, is the get rid of the extreme right (the tea party) and the extreme left (Nancy Pelosi and her crowd)

The government is obligated to pay its debt by the 14th amendment and if it is prevented from doing so by the debt ceiling then it would seem the debt ceiling is unconstitutional. Anyway debt ceiling legislation seems like another trip to fantasy land. Probably sounded like a good idea at the time though. The correct approach is to limit spending or increase revenue before any debt is incurred.

It would appear that the Congress are the ones violating the Constitution if they allow us to default on our debt obligations. I find it ironic because many of these elected officials are the same ones who voted to raise the debt ceiling numerous times while President Bush was in office and all of a sudden it is agains their party platform. I am sure that the founders did not anticipate the House of Representatives holding the country hostage for political gain. I disagree that this situation does not warrant Presidential intervention if necessary, this is very much a crisis situation that will have devastating long term affects on our country.

It must happen!

I agree with John; maybe it’s time to prosecute those members of Congress who are impeding progress, especially if the US debt goes into default.
Personally, I think there are a number of members of the Republican Party who don’t deserve to be members of Congress simply because they are not interested in the needs of the nation; their only interest is in the Republican Party and how they can undo the Democratic Party. Bush ruined the Republican Party, not the Democrats. He’s gone, so let’s get on with reality and take care of the national needs, not the party needs.

Balanced Fair Rights for All vs. Weber’s Bureaucracy “Cage” of DIVI$ION to Control and EXPLOIT, e.g., FEAR, GREED, Tax & Wage Flips, and pro-Technical / Org’l Systems Change, drive Human $ystem$ change –NOT, PEOPLE Drive and REJECT Change via ETHICS of CARE for fairness.

I don’t see how the 14th amendment could be used to raise the dept ceiling.
Section 4.
The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, including debts incurred for payment of pensions and bounties for services in suppressing insurrection or rebellion, shall not be questioned. But neither the United States nor any state shall assume or pay any debt or obligation incurred in aid of insurrection or rebellion against the United States, or any claim for the loss or emancipation of any slave; but all such debts, obligations and claims shall be held illegal and void.

so… from what i read, the debt shall not be questioned, and the congress must authorize the payment of debt.
if the debt ceiling doesn’t pass and we default, then congress is committing the unconstitutional act. It is not the president’s fault, he did not authorize the payments, other than signing bills that were presented to him.
authorization for the wars came from congress (under false information), entitlements, subsidies, tax cuts, all came from congress.

If Congress does not raise the debt ceiling, then Congress will be in violation of the 14th Amendment: “The validity of the public debt of the United States, authorized by law, … shall not be questioned. … The Congress shall have power to enforce, by appropriate legislation, the provisions of this article.”
CONGRESS HAS ALREADY AUTHORIZED THESE DEBTS. Raising the debt ceiling only allows the US to pay off the debts already authorized, hence raising the Debt Ceiling allows the debts already incurred by the US to not be questioned.
Rep. Tim Scott’s assessment is totally backwards. If Congress fails to uphold this provision, then we should impeach Congress, as they are the ones who are not upholding the Constitution.
In fact, it seems the whole arrangement of a “debt ceiling” actually violates this provision of the Constitution.

Hey there! Do you use Twitter? I’d like to follow you if that would be ok. I’m undoubtedly enjoying your blog and look forward to new posts.