Debt Showdown: End Game Approaches Without Clear Solution

Orginial Post at 5:15 pm ET. Updated at 10:50 pm ET.
ABC News' Jonathan Karl (@jonkarl) reports:
It has come to this. Both Democrats and Republicans are about to play a game you might call “My Way or the Highway to Economic Collapse.”
House Republicans still plan to vote at some point on the Boehner bill (a $900B, six month, debt-ceiling increase). John “Get Your Ass In Line” Boehner may get his 217 votes to pass the bill, but he is not there yet. It will be a close vote. Republican leaders' plans were thrown a major setback Thursday night when it became clear they did not have the votes to pass Boehner's bill and delayed the vote rather than seeing it go down to defeat.
That vote was initially expected to occur at 6 p.m. ET, but was postponed late Thursday afternoon and eventually scuttled for the day. The delay suggested Republicans did not have the votes to pass their plan and they were scrambling to pressure wavering Republicans on board.
By nearly 10 p.m. Thursday evening, a whip notice had gone out to all Republican House members.
"Thank you for your patience," the notice read. "We hope to reach a decision soon on the schedule for the rest of night. Members are advised to stay nearby as we still expect to vote later tonight. Please stay tuned to future updates for more accurate timing. I will relay any new information I have as soon as possible. Again – Thank you for your patience."
Shortly before 10:30 p.m., however, the vote was off. House Republican Whip Kevin McCarthy, R-Calif., announced to gathered reporters on the Hill there will be "no vote tonight."
House Democratic leaders have said no Democrat will vote for the Boehner bill.
Even if the gavel comes down – then what?
Assuming the Boehner bill eventually passes, the Senate will move swiftly to reject it (or, in Senate-speak to “table” it). IMPORTANT: Tabling a bill is not the same as killing it. It can be brought up again at a later time.
At that point, the Senate will take up the Reid bill (supported by the President, it raises the debt ceiling by $2.7T, until 2013). He’ll offer Republicans one last chance – a window of just a matter of hours – to negotiate slight changes.
But Republicans say the Reid bill cannot get the 60 need to pass. They are counting on it failing, forcing the Democrats – under the threat of default and facing market turmoil – to once again take up the Boehner bill and pass it as the only way to avoid economic chaos.
As Republicans see it: The Boehner bill will be the last train leaving the station. The Senate must pass it or default.
But …
Democrats plan to put the Republicans right against the wall using the very same tactic. They will do this by holding the vote on the competing bill authored by Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid (which would raise the debt ceiling until 2013) on Sunday or Monday – at which point it will be too late to go back to the Boehner bill or do anything else.
“At that point,” says one key Democrat, “they will be forced to make a choice: vote for the Reid bill or vote for default.”
BOTTOM LINE: Both sides are now prepared to use the threat of economic turmoil – a possible global downturn – to force the other side to go along with their plan. And both sides say they are absolutely confident the other side will give in.
ABC's John R. Parkinson and Sunlen Miller contributed to this report.
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From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:
The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies. … Increasing America’s debt weakens us domestically and internationally. Leadership means that “the buck stops here.” Instead, Washington is shifting the burden of bad choices today onto the backs of our children and grandchildren. America has a debt problem and a failure of leadership. Americans deserve better.
Posted by: Jim Tayberry | Jul 28, 2011 4:09:57 PM
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
“From Sen. Obama’s Floor Speech, March 20, 2006:…” Well, to paraphrase Pelosi a while back, “He (President Obama) said a lot of things.” Things do look a lot different from the driver’s seat, don’t they?
Posted by: Publius | July 28, 2011, 6:01 pm 6:01 pm
If the Boehner bill fails, doesn’t that give the Reid bill the “inside track”? Reid could still delay the vote until Sunday or Monday and the Republicans whould have no alternative bill.
Posted by: Greggw | July 28, 2011, 6:05 pm 6:05 pm
reid does not have 60 votes.democrats will be forced to except the house bill or cause a default. then on to obama who can choose default or raise the debt ceiling.
Posted by: catman | July 28, 2011, 6:06 pm 6:06 pm
There is a clear solution and it is called Cut, Cap & Balance.
Posted by: kate | July 28, 2011, 6:10 pm 6:10 pm
I don’t have a legitimate reasoned argument so I will hi-jack this board by repeated posting my asinine commentary.
I will believe what Rupert and Faux news tell me to think and not realize my vote goes against my own interest and that this whole scenario has been generated by those I support to create a political crisis that need not have existed.
Posted by: TeaPartyIdiot | July 28, 2011, 6:12 pm 6:12 pm
Get the ear plugs, folks. There’s going to be a humongus crash which will reverberate throughout the world as Congress lets all the dominos go crashing. For the umpteenth time, it’s CONGRESS which is mandated to draft the legislation for ALL Americans. If they can’t get their s**t together at the expense of we, the people, THAT is a lack of leadership. Members of the House & Senate truly can’t see the forest for the trees because they are so blinded by the signposts saying, “My way or the highway.” They better get the blinkers off and FAST, because, like lemmings, they’re fixing to “lead” us all off a cliff.
Posted by: amn | July 28, 2011, 6:14 pm 6:14 pm
Meanwhile we spend millions on a foolish war in Libya and not a dime of that is being reported…you would think Congress would be up in arms over that but its lost in the news and to our illustrious leaders do Nothing to control the Presidents spending money on a group of “rebels” who shoot off rounds in celebration faster than we can buy them more. Our government IS dysfunctional!
Posted by: Robert | July 28, 2011, 6:14 pm 6:14 pm
Get the ear plugs, folks. There’s going to be a humongus crash which will reverberate throughout the world as Congress lets all the dominos go crashing. For the umpteenth time, it’s CONGRESS which is mandated to draft the legislation for ALL Americans. If they can’t get their s**t together at the expense of we, the people, THAT is a lack of leadership. Members of the House & Senate truly can’t see the forest for the trees because they are so blinded by the signposts saying, “My way or the highway.” They better get the blinkers off and FAST, because, like lemmings, they’re fixing to “lead” us all off a cliff.
Posted by: amn | July 28, 2011, 6:14 pm 6:14 pm
Cut, Cap and Balance is the ONLY way to go if America really wants to cut our bills. Reid’s plan is smoke and mirrors as are most of the Dems plans. They DO NOT WANT TO STOP SPENDING OUR MONEY AND, BY GOD, THEY WON’T AS LONG AS WE GO ALONG WITH THEIR PLANS! So very sad. They all need to be replaced, especially those who have been in there more than 4 years!!!!!!
Posted by: Really!! | July 28, 2011, 6:16 pm 6:16 pm
i think that our leaders in congress needs to stop playing with our future because yhe rich dont want to pay there fair share of taxes and that what every body should do in this country may god bless us ALL
Posted by: very worried person | July 28, 2011, 6:17 pm 6:17 pm
The thing of it is, the Reid plan is *NOT* the Democratic plan. It is meant specifically to be a middle-of-the-road plan.
Posted by: Nick B | July 28, 2011, 6:18 pm 6:18 pm
Obama should take Bill Clinton’s advice and after the babies finish whining he should simply raise the debt ceiling himself using powers granted under the 14th amendment of the Constitution. End Game! And if the babies don’t like it.. see the courts… it was a matter of national emergency.
Posted by: LenH | July 28, 2011, 6:19 pm 6:19 pm
I say the first checks to be stopped are those paychecks to congressional members followed retirement checks to congressional members.
Posted by: William | July 28, 2011, 6:19 pm 6:19 pm
With the GOP sooooo anti Union — why then have they all signed on to Grover most powerful influencial Union and what’s the difference.
Dues, their vote (soul), ability to think on their own or they are right out the door — discuss among yourselves will check back later
Posted by: Paulet | July 28, 2011, 6:25 pm 6:25 pm
@Andrew: CBO rough estimate, cost of war in Afghan and Iraq, about $1.5 Trillion, every penny borrowed back in the Bush Days…so if Millions spent in Libya have you upset, where were you back in the days of W ????
Posted by: Manny | July 28, 2011, 6:28 pm 6:28 pm
The Republicans are well aware that Obama can raise the debt ceiling under the 14th Amendment. They are gambling on playing a game of “chicken’ with the Dems so they can raise the ceiling for 6 months (which they know is necessary) and bring this problem closer to the 2012 elections and make it Obama’s fault to win the WH. Problem is Boehner doesn’t realize that most of the people in the US can see right through his smoke screen. He is not looking out for the “little people”. He is looking at keeping his job and putting a Republican in the WH. His phoney crocodile tears have gotten real old.
Posted by: Jacki | July 28, 2011, 6:29 pm 6:29 pm
This country can no longer afford the Republicans’ brand of fiscal responsibility. Time to give them a haircut to bald scalp come November 2012. Then the debt can be properly dealt with.
Posted by: sameagain | July 28, 2011, 6:31 pm 6:31 pm
Cheers JACKI !! Someone is making sense..
Posted by: LENH | July 28, 2011, 6:33 pm 6:33 pm
I’m mad at everyone of them, democrates and republicans alike. Life is full of comprises we all comprise, in our work, marriage, etc. Their pay checks should be the first ones not to be paid. Bet they’ll come to a settlement then. I urge all Americans to remember those in office now and do not send them back to Washington again!
Posted by: Linda | July 28, 2011, 6:47 pm 6:47 pm
““At that point,” says one key Democrat, “they will be forced to make a choice: vote for the Reid bill or vote for default.”…..The bill that saves one trillion dollars!….by winding down the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan…but wasn’t that going to happen anyway?.. Clever Democrats!
Posted by: free_2_choose | July 28, 2011, 6:48 pm 6:48 pm
Default? The sky is falling, the sky is falling. With tax revenue covering 60% of monthly expenditures (including all interest payments), the govt also has many assets they can sell to cover shortfalls.
Posted by: deanbob | July 28, 2011, 7:20 pm 7:20 pm
Hey, idiots, the debt ceiling limit just lets us pay back the money we borrowed. The GOP shouldn’t be holding the world hostage and turning down 4 trillion dollars in cuts from Obama. They’re reckless fools and they can’t even pass their own budget. And the first time their math was wrong!
Posted by: mjw149 | July 28, 2011, 7:22 pm 7:22 pm
Boehner’s bill will pass in the House and die in the Senate. Reid’s bill will pass in the Senate and die in the House. Then Obama will either let the country go into default or invoke the 14th Amendment. If Obama invokes the 14th Amendment, his IMPEACHMENT proceedings will begin. There are no winners in this debacle…the LOSERS are the American people. We need to think long and hard before pulling that lever next year in November.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 7:22 pm 7:22 pm
To reduce the debt, the annual budget must first be balanced. There is a bill that does just that sitting on Harry Reid’s desk. It also raises the debt ceiling.
Posted by: deanbob | July 28, 2011, 7:23 pm 7:23 pm
What do you want the government to sell DEANBOB? Some of the National Parks? The Washington Monument? I GUESS THAT WOULD BE A BETTER THAN ENDING TAX LOOPHOLES FOR THE RICH.
Posted by: Rockagain | July 28, 2011, 7:26 pm 7:26 pm
That bill (that raises the debt ceiling) sitting on Reid’s desk is the the Cut, Cap, and Balance bill.
Posted by: deanbob | July 28, 2011, 7:26 pm 7:26 pm
I cried tonight, helpless, as I watched America upon her death bed.
I railed against the politicians who ignored the symptoms of the cancerous corruption that ate at her while greedily imagining what else they could do to acquire a share of her inheritance.
I screamed silently at the citizens, so busy struggling beneath the burden of government, that they had no time to spare for visiting the old lady and considering all that made her great.
I read the charts, so visible, and struggled to sense the truth of her condition in the hurried scribbling of the press.
Her blood was corrupted by the lack of truth flowing from her heart in Washington and was eating inexorably at the citizenry that was her flesh.
Her muscles, weakened by politicians who failed in their duty to remain steadfast to her constitution, could not withstand the assault of a President blatantly twisting them.
Her bones and tendons cracked and tore as business leaders, anxious to fill their pockets, stretched them beyond endurance to encompass a world that was not hers.
Her mind, assailed by so much wrong and so much pain, could no longer distinguish reality from fantasy, truth from falsehood, right from wrong, and was ceasing to even try.
Her prognosis wasn’t good but I thought, and I hoped, that someone might, yet, come to her aid and end her inexorable fall.
As is the way of things; powers greater than I will decide her fate. I can only pray, and beg, those powers to do what is right while, in my heart, knowing that they are no longer listening.
I cried tonight, helpless, as I watched America upon her death bed and wept more for all of the generations to come who would not have a chance to truly know her.
AMERICA! She was a GREAT lady!
My fellow citizens: FIVE days remaining.
Will you allow the current dysfunctional “Government” to decide her fate? Will you join them in applauding her passing? Do you REALLY want to be just like all of the other “governed” people of this world? Or; will you stand for the principles established by America’s founding fathers and control your own destiny?
I fear, that with only 25% of the the population having any proficiency in U.S. History, America will pass.
I hope, given that only 13% worked tirelessly to give her birth, that some hope remains.
Posted by: AEstates | July 28, 2011, 7:28 pm 7:28 pm
How in the crap is this Republicans in the house problem? They have submitted 2 plans and both struck down by the Dems in the Senate. If anything the Dems are winning the media war as you can see from some the comments here.
This is a make-believe dead line made up by the WH.
My question is this:
What is going on while we are talking about the debt limit? Usually this drama is because they make the American people take the eye off of something else.
If you trust anybody in Washington then you are crazy.. R or D.
Posted by: Hotwire | July 28, 2011, 7:28 pm 7:28 pm
@Aestates EXCELLENT POST! Thank you for sharing…very moving!
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 7:31 pm 7:31 pm
If the Democrats plan to “plan on … holding the vote on the Reid bill on Sunday or Monday – at which point it will be too late to go back to the Boehner bill or do anything else.” Wouldn’t the Republicans wait to vote on the Boehner bill until Sunday or Monday to put the monkey back on the Democrats back?
Posted by: Voice_Reason | July 28, 2011, 7:32 pm 7:32 pm
Give it up you whinning liberals (socialists). You socialists and the socialists that you vote for are the ONLY ones to blame for this problem. Hussein obama is a flat out liar. All of the money is there to service the debt. All the bills can be paid with the money that we currently take in, including medicare and social security. obama is a socialist and a fraud and is without a doubt the least intelligent person in any room he happens to be in. he dares to get up in front of the American people and lie right to their faces telling them that he doesn’t know if their social security checks will go out when he full well knows that hte money is right their to fund social security. filthy liar. the only way the checks wouldn’t go out is if obama refused to send them out and he would refuse to send them out on purpose just to be spiteful. obama doesn’t care about Americans. you liberals need to wake up. you socialists contribute nothing to society, you refuse to work and carry your own weight. all you want is a handout. There is no reason in the world to raise the debt ceiling. NOTHING will happen if the debt ceiling is not raised. All the bills will get paid and the socialists will be forced to shut down their anti-American empire by eliminating the EPA, NEA, HUD, Dept. of AG, Fed. funding of abortion, funding for PBS and NPR, welfare, foreign aid and on and on down the list. Then maybe you dirty foot liberals will go away and stop stinkin’ up the place. why does obama have a connecticut social security number? why does obama’s birth certificate contain two different size fonts throughout the text? (FORGERY). you blind fools will believe anything.
Posted by: steve | July 28, 2011, 7:37 pm 7:37 pm
boehner should never have trusted the tea party. should have made a deal with democrats and he wouldnt be sitting his own pile of poo poo
Posted by: swing voter | July 28, 2011, 7:37 pm 7:37 pm
republican boehner’s inexperience and incompetence is on display. leader obama got the house votes for healthcare when crunch time came, bravo
Posted by: swing voter | July 28, 2011, 7:40 pm 7:40 pm
I am so sick and tried of hearing about these brats that I wish they wouldn’t say a word until it is completely over with.
Posted by: Carol | July 28, 2011, 7:43 pm 7:43 pm
Democrat President Obama’s inexperience and incompetence is on display. Leader Obama needs to eat humble pie!
Posted by: Voice_Reason | July 28, 2011, 7:44 pm 7:44 pm
Please read the Constitution. It is not the duty of the President to appropriate funds–it is the duty of Congress. Congress ran up all the debt with money for two unpaid wars (one totally unnecessary), an unpaid prescription drug plan, and unpaid tax cuts for the wealthy. Our debt can never be decreased until these wrongs are made right. The ramifications of these decisions by a Republican Congress will continue to be with us until they do the right thing–get us out of the wars, cancel the prescription drug plan, and bring taxes back to the Clinton era.
Posted by: MELINDA | July 28, 2011, 7:56 pm 7:56 pm
I have such pride in being an American citizen. So many lives have been lost establishing and protecting our freedom to assemble, freedom of speech, and freedom of a representative governemnt.
Collectively we must all find a way to recognize and reward those few leaders that have the capability to administer justice with equality; To govern by service to the good of our shared communities.
Throughout history we label those people we wish to stereotype. This allows us to de-personalize the people we disagree with.
We should stop calling all of our leaders “Republications or Democrats”, but rather those that are fighting for the common interests of the people and those that are serving interests incongruent with our American values! It seems almost all of our previous election choices are falling into the later category.
Posted by: Dave | July 28, 2011, 8:07 pm 8:07 pm
@Steve Things have gone well beyond the “politics as sport” that you play in. Wake up. Try understanding that this is NOT about liberals vs conservatives. It is about America; its promise and its decline. Ultimately about whether she survives; or not. The mess is America was not caused by its citizens but by its political parties. BOTH of them. The current “crisis” by all FACTUAL accounts can be laid squarely at the feet of the “Republicans”.
But; no matter. In the final analysis the “crisis” and ALL of the problems facing America can be laid at the feet of citizens who haven’t any clue about history, social justice, or the responsibilities of individuals to control their own destiny.
Our founding fathers gave us an opportunity. We, through ignorance, as exemplified by your post, have squandered it. So which shall it be: Dems, GOP, or America. YOUE choice.
Posted by: AEstates | July 28, 2011, 8:11 pm 8:11 pm
And voila! Before you is the perfect argument for a smaller federal government. Not only can they not support themselves and their programs financially, but they cannot agree on a solution to the problems.
Posted by: KATHY | July 28, 2011, 8:12 pm 8:12 pm
Democrats give 4T in cuts and ask 1T in taxes on the rich. Republicans say No new taxes. Who does not understand compromise?
Posted by: Ray | July 28, 2011, 8:14 pm 8:14 pm
Amazing Boehner has yet to cry in this whole thing. He is the one who decided to play politics
Posted by: what667 | July 28, 2011, 8:16 pm 8:16 pm
Fire all the congress. No damn game playing as it affects the whole world! Withdraw all troops out of the USA and cut all the related spending. Then we are done.
Posted by: Jack | July 28, 2011, 8:22 pm 8:22 pm
Fire all the congress. No damn game playing as it affects the whole world! Withdraw all troops out of the USA and cut all the related spending. Then we are done.
Posted by: Jack | July 28, 2011, 8:22 pm 8:22 pm
The time to stand up is now. The Republicans need to hold the line now.
Posted by: Steve | July 28, 2011, 8:22 pm 8:22 pm
Just why Boehner decides to do this a piece meal deal is beyond me. I guess it is politics as usual
Posted by: what667 | July 28, 2011, 8:26 pm 8:26 pm
@David from Texas.
You are welcome. And; thank you.
Unfortunately; few will read. Fewer still will understand. And; based upon most of the posts here and elsewhere even fewer will will move beyond the blind rhetoric of “politics as sport” and understand that while they were “playing” America, and ALL that she stood for, died.
Posted by: AEstates | July 28, 2011, 8:30 pm 8:30 pm
Just saw Chuckie Schumer on MSNBC. They are going to put “Reid’s” bill through late this weekend! I know it’s early, but my prediction is evolving! Harry Reid and the Dems are going to put through “spending cuts” with no tax increases. They will claim victory because it came from Harry “WonderBoy” Reid even though there will be no tax increases, and Dems all over will take a victory lap! Of course, BO and company will continue to spend $1.5T over the budget (they’ve overspent by $1.6T and $1.8T over the last 2 years) because these cuts supposedly will be $2.7T OVER 10 YEARS from what I’ve heard. We are hurdling toward default, and the only thing people can do is to play the game. Pick sides, and sink the ship/country you fools! Default is coming, but it will not be August 2.
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 8:32 pm 8:32 pm
Every President and Congress since 1957 has run a deficit. Look for yourselves on The “Treasury’s” website. Even Clinton ran deficits every year contrary to popular belief. I cannot believe the world I live in.
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 8:38 pm 8:38 pm
As the Speaker of the House, Boehner’s first duty is to the American people, not the Republican Party. Since his own party is not behind his plan (that probably won’t make it pass the Senate anyways) he needs to come up with a plan that will pass the House without the Tea Party. Something like just raising the Debt ceiling, with no strings attached. Get it passed in the House, get it passed in the Senate and get it signed by the President. Then he can go back to his party and decide how to fight about the budget and taxes.
Posted by: Tami | July 28, 2011, 8:39 pm 8:39 pm
So far there is no plan to cut 4 trillion over ten years from the budget. I guess this is why the Tea Party is not supporting the republican leadership … not participating in a farce. Do not look directly into the flash.
Posted by: Jablabla | July 28, 2011, 8:41 pm 8:41 pm
@Tami: Speaker Boehner has been doing this….he’s been negoiating back and forth. Obama has promised to VETO anything that comes from the Republicans. So, I would say, Obama is at fault here. Obama is holding America hostage.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 8:42 pm 8:42 pm
How can you fight about a budget when the Dems haven’t put one out there for 2 years?
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 8:45 pm 8:45 pm
Both Democrats AND Republicans are to blame for the mess we are in. While the increase in spending has been greatly increased over the last 2-3 years, both parties have wasted time and opportunities to stop this mess. All I see from Democrats is more spending (if you think there is a middle of the road approach to Reid’s bill, I suggest you do the math… there are essentially increased taxes and more spending while at the same time preventing the subject from coming back up until AFTER they can get reelected and do whatever they want.)
Anyone that believes that $14,000,000,000,000 is not enough money to run this country needs to bring their head back out of the clouds (or wherever else it may be).
I can show you where EVERY single government program has cost more than they stated. I can show you waste in virtually EVERY department of the government. I can show you waste and fraud everywhere.
If anyone REALLY wants to do this right, pass a balanced budget, limit spending, and get rid of the waste. Stop spending money on useless things. Simply getting rid of most of this waste would save money in and of itself.
The FAA recently stopped collecting $200,000,000 a WEEK that it says it needs to pay it’s bills. GET REAL!!!!
The government spent BILLIONS trying to get the economy going… by giving it to the people that caused this mess and by enacting policies that fail to provide incentives or confidence. Had they given that money to taxpayers, they would have been better off. That means that half of the country would have been spending additional money and that would have resulted in the growth that it needs.
Of course, those that do not pay taxes do not care how much you take from anyone else. As far as I am concerned, if you do not pay taxes, you really have no right to say anything one way or the other about the debt limit, taxes, or spending by the government!
Posted by: kbrum1066 | July 28, 2011, 8:47 pm 8:47 pm
David from Texas wrote, “@Tami: Speaker Boehner has been doing this….he’s been negoiating back and forth. Obama has promised to VETO anything that comes from the Republicans.”
No he hasn’t. He said he would veto THIS bill, if it even gets through the House let alone the Senate. Boehner doesn’t understand the word “compromise”. Or rather, the Hobbits in his T-Bag contingent don’t. The Republican Party, led by the children now in charge (a.k.a. the T-Bagger Hobbits), has totally turned this into a partisan political farce. They are trying to make good on their “number one priority” which is to make Obama a 1-term president. They TOLD US this is the most important thing to them. They will damage this country’s full faith and credit to achieve this. And they believe the American people are stupid enough to buy their crapola…….
Posted by: Searambler | July 28, 2011, 8:47 pm 8:47 pm
Ronald Reagan – $926B National debt when he started, $2.7T National debt when he ended. Raised debt ceiling 18 times, no spending cuts, no tax increases attached.
HW Bush – $2.7T National debt when he started, $4.3 Natinoal debt when he ended. Raised debt ceiling 9 times, no spending cuts, no tax increases attached.
Clinton – $4.3T National debt when he started, $5.7T National debt when he ended (with a $236B budget surplus). Raised debt ceiling 4 times, no spending cuts, no tax increases attached.
W Bush – $5.7T National debt when he started ($236B surplus in hand), $10.7T National debt ($1.4T budget deficit) when he ended. Raised debt ceiling 7 times, no spending cuts, no tax increases attached.
Obama – $10.7T National debt ($1.4T budget deficit) when he started, $14.3T National debt today. All kinds of ransom and demands being made to increase the deb.t.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 8:48 pm 8:48 pm
BK70 wrote, “How can you fight about a budget when the Dems haven’t put one out there for 2 years?”
This isn’t about a budget, it’s about raising the debt ceiling, or defaulting on our obligations for the first time in our history. Yes, a budget battle needs to be fought. But for gods sake, this is NOT the time to do it!!!!!!
Posted by: Searambler | July 28, 2011, 8:49 pm 8:49 pm
I hear people placing blame on the Republicans, yet I have not seen a plan put forth by Obama and the Democrats. Liberals say the Republicans are holding the country hostage, when I see Reid & Company waiting until Sunday nite to try to ram thier bill thru. Remember how the Dems did with ObamaCare….waited til the last minute then ran it through, not even knowing what was in it, and now Obama has granted over 1400 waivers to union companies to opt out of ObamaCare. Granted, both parties are at fault…not one is better than the other in this debacle, including Obama. The losers will be the American people, however, 2012 is coming!
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 8:49 pm 8:49 pm
CUT…CAP…AND BALANCE…sounds reasonable and prudent unless you are a thieving, corrupt DEMOCRAT. What logic is there in enslaving our country to more borrowing from the Chinese?
Posted by: roma | July 28, 2011, 8:51 pm 8:51 pm
David From Texas,
When was the last time you even heard a mention when the national debt has been raised? That’s right, never. It’s historically just been…raised. One sentence in a bill, late before midnight, on the night it’s due. Now, you wanna see plans, charts, graphs, pictures, statements, promises, etc.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 8:53 pm 8:53 pm
@SEARAMBLER Obama stated in his “presser” ANY bill put forth by the Republicans. Obama moved the goalposts on Boehner and had no plan of his own. As far as Obama being re-elected, that will never happen. Obama’s poll numbers continue to decline, and whether you want to believe it or not, he is the POTUS, this debt debacle will land on him squarely, along with the 9.2% unemployment that is already projected to rise. Reid & the Democrats are playing chicken…waiting until late Sunday to try to push thier bill through. It will die in the House. Boehners bill will pass the House and die in the Senate. Obama will either veto Boehners bill or throw the country into chaos. Or, he can invoke the 14th Amendment, then he will be Impeached. Regardless, Dems, Repubs (Including TP) and Obama are ALL to blame. The losers in this mess is the American citizens.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 8:54 pm 8:54 pm
So, when does the spending stop? Why has BO added $1T in new spending since Bush? I agree Bush overspent, and the Republicans paid the price in 2006 and 2008, but does that mean we have to continue overspending? Why can’t the Dems do the right thing and rein? Why should we give them more money when they have proven they can’t be trusted? When someone has bad credit, should they get more???
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 8:58 pm 8:58 pm
Time is rapidly running out on this 3-Ring Circus, The Congress is “blowing smoke rings up its own collective butt”.
Therefore , the “Executive Branch” must “take the reins”:
President Obama should make an Executive Order to raise the Debt Ceiling, high enough to carry the US through the 2012 elections.
He can do this, citing the 14th Amendment, and to lessen the World Economic Disaster that would result after Aug 2, 2011 (Next Tuesday!).
God Bless the USA!
Posted by: Bob Hobbs | July 28, 2011, 8:59 pm 8:59 pm
BRUHMAN…what’s your point? Are you saying its a good thing or bad that the national debt has been raised without fanefare? If you are saying its good…are you crazy? Seriously, ARE you CRAZY?
You must really be on the government dole to advocate further debt because no sane person would think it is good for our country!
Posted by: roma | July 28, 2011, 9:00 pm 9:00 pm
@Bruhman Not sure the point you’re trying to make with your post.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:01 pm 9:01 pm
David, David, David…
Tsk, tsk, tsk!! For Obama not to have a plan, you sure seem to know what he wants from Boehner. If they agreed to “something”, and Obama wanted “something” more…that’s negotiating. NOTHING’S AGREED TO UNTIL EVERYTHING IS AGREED TO. Now an inexperienced Congressman, known for nothing, is Speaker of the House and he’s being twisted in knots by TP lunatics. He’s negotiating with Republicans at this point. Not Obama. Worse thing is, he knows the debt ceiling will be raised, just before midnight Aug 1, no spending cuts, no tax increases…just like history repeating itself.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:01 pm 9:01 pm
WHAT A CROC!! You blame Obama for this man-made crisis? When the majority of the debt was vreated by GW!! Until this time – the debt limit was raised on its on merits, w/ no attachments. But the tea party idiots demand a “Cut Cap Balance” as only way to avoid default?? You want to force the weight of this completely onto seniors, sick, poor and children while giving more money to the rich!! Keep spouting your bllsht – as the majority of Americans can and will remember this come 2012!! The debt needs addressed and lowered!! But not on the back of middle and lower class. And not at the risk of default that will cost EVERY American a LOT of money. Will kill jobs and destroy any recovery from the great GW and republican crash of 2009.
Posted by: Waruka | July 28, 2011, 9:02 pm 9:02 pm
David,
Yes you do. Pretend if you must, but you know the point I’m making.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:03 pm 9:03 pm
Bruhman, you may want to check your Clinton figures. The last year he was President, we ran a $17B deficit. Treasury reports a $17B deficit….
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 9:04 pm 9:04 pm
@Bob Hobbs: If Obama invokes the 14th Amendment, the Republicans will start impeachment proceedings. Even Obama’s attorney has advised him not to do so, along with Pelosi, and Reid. It would be fine with me…I’d love to see Obama impeached…Actually, if you think about it, Reid & Boehner BOTH have cornered Obama. Now the rumblings are out there, i.e. Bernie Sanders & Ralph Nader, who both feel 100% sure they will have a Democrat challenger to run against Obama in 2012. Obama will not be re-elected. His legacy will be that he is the FIRST U.S. President to have the credit rating lowered…thats the writing on the wall.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:05 pm 9:05 pm
@Bruhman Go back and revisit the last few days…the plan was already decided on between Obama and Boehner…..Obama moved the goalposts at the last minute. The plan had already been negoiated….
Bruhman….Bruhman….Bruhman…..
tsk…tsk…tsk….please get your facts straight before posting. BTW, did you notice Gallup today, Obama poll numbers continue to plummett…he’s at 43% appvl, 48% disappvl….Rasmussen, he’s at a (-18), and Real Clear, he’s at a 49% disapproval…..and….the jobs report for July is expected to be even worse…higher unemployment percentage…hate to break it to you, Obama OWNS this economy…he’s toast.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:10 pm 9:10 pm
It is blatantly obvious that the only goal of Boehner’s decaying party is to manipulate the American economy to turn voters against our current president. They will stop at nothing to regain the presidency and again enjoy their free unchecked reign in maximizing profit.
Since the House, where they have a majority, must originate such bills they have created a bill which cites the current deficit as an opportunity for major cuts in programs that help those less fortunate. To ensure that the President will veto the bill they have signed a pledge “not a single penny of higher taxes for the upper 2% along with permanent Bush era tax breaks and no closing any loopholes”. So now, when the President vetoes such a blatantly one sided bill, that if enacted into law would push many into poverty and destroy our nation, they can blame him for not passing a bill that would increase the debt limit. But of course, only on their terms, and without compromise to share the burden. A brilliant strategy to return us to the Son of a Bush era that absolutely got us into this current economic nose-dive. What kind of idiot cannot comprehend that our downward Bush spiral that allowed a deficit to occur from a surplus may take years to recover from. Absolutely key to the recovery is to provide health care, both emergency and preventive to those suddenly unemployed and without company health plan coverage. And yes to ensure that profit taking insurers don’t refuse them coverage or put a cap on what their lives are worth.
Posted by: kemarman | July 28, 2011, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm
@Bruhman…I didn’t even mention Clinton in my posts…you have the wrong guy, Bud.
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:11 pm 9:11 pm
JOE ALLARD…you are one seriously misinformed individual. The TP has nothing to gain, especially for the “Rich” by advocating for reduced government spending and waste. The TP is made up of people from all walks of life and social status. They are tired of the GREEDY DEMOCRATS stealing money for their corrupt causes.
Posted by: roma | July 28, 2011, 9:16 pm 9:16 pm
I know how it works. The fact is Clinton still ran a deficit in 2000. He simply borrowed from other levels of the government. Just because he didn’t have to borrow from the public doesn’t mean he didn’t run a deficit.
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 9:16 pm 9:16 pm
David,
Please, Boehner got his but on the teevee machine everyday the past two weeks and said “there is no deal”. So, who am I to believe, his mouth or your lying intertube posts? Who’s gonna beat Obama? Bachmann? Romney? Pawlenty? Cain? Newt? Oh, no…you’re all waiting for Sister Sarah…that’s right. Even with the economy in bad shape, Obama will still beat any Republican right now!!! Obama beat McCain 365-187…that’s not a one state Supreme Court decision like 2000!!! That’s not a one state victory in Ohio like 2004. What states can any of these losers flip to win a majority of electoral college votes?
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:18 pm 9:18 pm
They’ll pass it alright. I think Boehner and the repubs have this scripted so the Senate doesn’t get it tonight.
Posted by: prohb | July 28, 2011, 9:18 pm 9:18 pm
Bob Hobbs | Jul 28, 2011 8:59:45 PM—I find it comical Clinton mentions the 14th amendment knowing full well it is illegal to do what he says and now you all crawl on his illegal bandwagon. I guess I should expect no less from an administration illegally conducting a Libyan war.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | July 28, 2011, 9:18 pm 9:18 pm
Why does the Tea Party get attacked as a bunch of redneck bigot racists and at the same time people say they are protecting their rich constuents?
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 9:19 pm 9:19 pm
David,
Sorry, that was for SB1070…I mean BK.70
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:20 pm 9:20 pm
BruhMan | Jul 28, 2011 9:09:38 PM—Because a “budget surplus” means nothing when the national debt still rose. Clinton added to the national debt every year he was in office, just like all other Presidents.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | July 28, 2011, 9:21 pm 9:21 pm
For Roma:
Ya know, it’s OK to NOT say anything when you clearly don’t have a clue what you are talking about. Seriously. The sound-byte party LOVES garbage like the ‘cut, cap and balance’ one. Unfortunately, it is unrelated to reality. First off, do you really think, in Washington DC and the rest of the country today, that an AGREEMENT could be reached to amend the Constitution? Because a balanced budget amendment is just that. And if you think an agreement could be reached on it in today’s political climate, you are certifiable. Second, why on earth would you even WANT to handcuff the government with a balanced budget amendment? Yeah, OK, in boom times it wouldn’t be a problem. Boom times like the 90′s for example. Remember the 90′s under Clinton? But today? It would be like slitting our own throats to treat cough. In other words – stupid and shortsighted. Honestly, you people need to look to more than Fox for your information…………
Posted by: Searambler | July 28, 2011, 9:21 pm 9:21 pm
@BK.70 Democrats will attack ANYONE that does not agree with the failed policies of Obama. Have you noticed how many times the Democrats are playing the “race” card here lately? They do this when they know they are defeated…and the Democrats ARE the losers in the debate. Obama has painted himself in a corner. I watched MSNBC (very liberal) this morning..ALL of the pundits were saying Obama is weak, should’ve been a leader, will be hurt by this, etc. I LOVE watching Democrats IMPLODE!
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:23 pm 9:23 pm
commonsenseparty wrote, “Because a “budget surplus” means nothing when the national debt still rose. Clinton added to the national debt every year he was in office, just like all other Presidents.”
And when he left Bush with a budget surplus, did Bush apply that surplus towards lowering the debt? HELL NO! He gave it away to the wealthy in the form of ‘temporary’ tax cuts. Had Bush NOT enacted those tax cuts, and everything else being equal, we would not be nearly as bad off as we are now. That is a FACT. When you CUT revenue while GROWING government (as Bush did, more than any president in modern history) and starting 2 wars, what the hell do you think will happen?!?!? The debt goes up! This isn’t rocket science, people…..
Posted by: Searambler | July 28, 2011, 9:27 pm 9:27 pm
I agree. They are all acting like a bunch of idiots operating on idealogical pride. What about American pride? We need to cut and reform the tax loopholes for the top 2% wealthiest in this country. Everyone is going to have to give. It can’t be one sided. Congress created this debt. They were all happy to vote for the spending and now they can’t figure out how to pay the bill.
Posted by: Patricia Carter | July 28, 2011, 9:28 pm 9:28 pm
After watching tonight’s World News and hearing the status of the debt ceiling debacle, something occurred to me. There’s been lots of talk about who will be paid and who won’t be should the limit not be raised. Since Congress has the choice to let the Federal Government pay its bills or not, shouldn’t Congress be at the top of the list for non-payment? Let’s suspend all pay to Members of Congress. Let’s close their famous gym and their cafeteria. I’m sure I’m missing some other Congressional benefits that would be appropriate. I’d like to propose we stop paying for their health benefits, but that’s probably more out of vengeance than reasonableness.
I’m late to the party with this thought, and am trying to figure out how to get the it out and get action on it. I’m confident a large portion of my fellow Americans would support this idea. I’ve not heard it proposed. Can you help me by sharing this idea in any way you can (assuming you agree)?
Thanks for your help.
Posted by: Bob | July 28, 2011, 9:28 pm 9:28 pm
So the GOP is now trying to pass 915 billion in savings over 10 years? Wow, don’t hurt yourselves! lol. To those who don’t know, we are charging 1.5 trillion on our credit cards EACH YEAR! that is 15 trillion minus the .915 trillion savings by our great leaders. Not even 10 percent! lol. Yes, our country is in gridlock.
Posted by: OhYeahDude | July 28, 2011, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
“The fact that we are here today to debate raising America’s debt limit is a sign of leadership failure. It is a sign that the U.S. Government can’t pay its own bills. It is a sign that we now depend on ongoing financial assistance from foreign countries to finance our Government’s reckless fiscal policies.
Over the past 5 years, our federal debt has increased by $3.5 trillion to $8.6 trillion.That is “trillion” with a “T.” That is money that we have borrowed from the Social Security trust fund, borrowed from China and Japan, borrowed from American taxpayers. And over the next 5 years, between now and 2011, the President’s budget will increase the debt by almost another $3.5 trillion.”
Senator Barack Obama
Senate Floor Speech on Public Debt
March 16, 2006
Posted by: kate | Jul 28, 2011 9:27:21 PM
YUP, that just about says it all there….can you say, “Obama is a HYPOCRITE!”
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
The fact remains that Obananas only concern is for his bottom line. He doesn’t and has not ever given a damn for the people and their interests. Get back to God. FAST!!
Posted by: dashdot | July 28, 2011, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
Common,
You know yearly budgets and total federal debt are not one in the same? At least I hope. Clinton yes indeed, added debt, but the government operating budget was less by $236B over its eight year existence, than its cost. Hence why there was a surplus. I know restate, hannitysworld, drudge won’t explain that to you…but I just have.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:29 pm 9:29 pm
Hey Mr. Boehner its not to late to simply not offer any bill at all. Pretend youre a democrat. Say you arent ready. Wait for the democrats to come up with some kind of bill. They need to pass it through the House if they have time.
Posted by: Paulie | July 28, 2011, 9:30 pm 9:30 pm
Hey Mr. Boehner its not to late to simply not offer any bill at all. Pretend youre a democrat. Say you arent ready. Wait for the democrats to come up with some kind of bill. They need to pass it through the House if they have time.
Posted by: Paulie | Jul 28, 2011 9:30:59 PM
That actually sounds like a plan if you ask me. Especially “pretending to be a Democrat with no bill”. 2012 = NOBAMA!
Posted by: David From Texas | July 28, 2011, 9:33 pm 9:33 pm
What about the Tea Party? It seems they share a huge amount of responsibility in this debacle. They don’t want to cooperate or give at all. Is that realistic? The rookies are putting this country and our economy at risk. Someone needs to get them in check.
Posted by: PC | July 28, 2011, 9:34 pm 9:34 pm
Hello everyone:
Actually, I am a Canadian, and, not an American, and, of course, you would be allowed to simply tell me to mind my very own “Canadian business” and, not, to interfere with yours, and, you would be right at 150%, however, here it goes either way…
As a Canadian observer only, I have followed your President since his election, and, I have noticed since day one that the Republicans and Fox news in USA have done everything in their power to always come against any decisions of President Obama. Your President wanted to protect Americans with health care, and, the Republicans have done everything to force him to let go important coverages that were essential for you all when it comes to your health and protection and etc. Rather than to let them win totally, he did not have no choice to compromise which has left your health care surely not as originally proposed by this good man. They have been so so so terrible towards your President that we do not have the words to even describe it somehow. Anything that this good man tries to accomplish for all American and especially for the people who do need help the most, these Republicans and of course, Fox news are there to destroy all that he wants to accomplish. Now, at such a crucial time for all Americans, John Boehner has also done everything to stop President Obama who wants to proceed with cuts, and, who wishes to let the rich pay taxes rather than to penalize the Americans that are earning less than 250,000$ a year and less. How on earth is this good and wonderful man that wants only to protect the Americans, can achieve all that could be good for you guys with ennemies like that. May I add also that not in a million years will the United States get againnnnnnnnn, such a good, decent and peaceful man same as President Obama, and, I do hope that all of you Americans have your eyes wide open and see all the harm that these Republicans and Fox news have been doing to your President. Oh yes, the entire world is watching right now!!!
To you all our American friends and neighbours, I do hope that President Obama’s plan will be the one adopted as it is the only way to help the people of the United States in need right now. Amicably yours, Hélène, your Canadian observer friend and neighbour.
Posted by: Helene Couture | July 28, 2011, 9:37 pm 9:37 pm
Searambler | Jul 28, 2011 9:27:23 PM —- We weren’t talking about Bush, but at least you got your daily partisan slam on him.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | July 28, 2011, 9:38 pm 9:38 pm
Obama has ordered the boodeyman bin Laden dead, yet we’ll (and I say we because I’ve fought there, active duty) stay in Afg. Saddam been dead, no WMD, 4000 troops dead…and we (and I say we because I fought there) are still there. Tax cuts extended…bad idea. Healthcare bill didn’t go far enough. My problem is Obama compromises far too much, and rightwardly thinnking people will never give him credit no matter how hard he tries to please them.
Posted by: BruhMan | July 28, 2011, 9:39 pm 9:39 pm
BruhMan | Jul 28, 2011 9:29:28 PM —- I will say it again, it doesn’t matter about the budget when the debt goes up every year. Why do I say this, because that simply means you are spending more than you take in. At least our idiots in government worked in more of a bipartisan manner. BTW, I am far more intelligent than you seem to try and give me credit for and I hate both parties which means I see much more of the problem than you do. Anyone supporting this disgusting 2 party monopoly must be insane. Obama has already admitted we will be raising the debt ceiling again in 2013 (if not sooner). You all are buying into this nonsense and supporting 50% of the problem….Democrats and Republicans.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | July 28, 2011, 9:43 pm 9:43 pm
BruhMan | Jul 28, 2011 9:39:34 PM — Again with the partisan BS. Obama compromised on Obamacare? Obama is hunting for votes because there is no way he can run on his record. He’s trying to stay out of this fight and Harry Reid is throwing himself under the bus for Obama. Harry might as well, he’s retiring after this term, so they have nothing to lose but to try and save Obama for a 2nd term. Obama is toast in teh debates unless unemployment and the economy come around soon.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | July 28, 2011, 9:47 pm 9:47 pm
Trying to talk sense into some of the people on this board doesn’t make any sense. BO has overspent by $1.6T and $1.8T the last 2 years. We are still in Iraq and Afghanistan. We are bombing Libya, Yemen, Somalia and Pakistan. Can a Bush-hater please tell me how he is different than Bush? Fine, he passed BO care. Good luck funding that! LOL!
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 9:58 pm 9:58 pm
Searambler,
“The sound-byte party LOVES garbage like the ‘cut, cap and balance”
As opposed to sound-byte garbage like HOPE & CHANGE?
By the way, I’m an Independent…but thanks for showing your ignorance.
Posted by: roma | July 28, 2011, 10:00 pm 10:00 pm
Helene, just because someone might be nice doesn’t mean they are good at their job. Did you know BO is at least bombing 6 countries?
Posted by: BK.70 | July 28, 2011, 10:05 pm 10:05 pm
I am absolutely amazed (and probably shouldn’t be). You right wimngers (David from TX, Kate, Voice_Reason., Deanbob etc) none of you get what is happening do you? This whole ‘manufactured crisis’ created solely by the tea party is jettisoning John Boehner’s leadership. Right now as we sit here and post. LOl…LOl…How many times have I posted this fact: “the tea party, this right wing extremist faction…will blow up the GOP. And for all the moderates, independents etc. who weren’t paying attention before when I said that…? they now have a concrete, bona fide reason to NEVER vote GOP again…at least while the tea party is such an ignorant, disruptive and destructive force as they are right now. This will only get worse on and for the GOP.
Posted by: CND FOX | July 28, 2011, 10:09 pm 10:09 pm
And OF COURSE… the Democrats… who controlled everything for 2 years, and congress for 4 years… want to paint the GOP as the problem because they now control just one part of congress!!! —– But, hey… where were those “spending cuts” and “deficit reductions” when the Dems had TOTAL CONTROL???? —- OH, that’s right… they increased spending 24%!!!
Posted by: TheLoyalOpposition | July 28, 2011, 10:12 pm 10:12 pm
REPUBCLIAN INCOMPETENCE AND INEXPERIENCE ON DISPLAY.
Posted by: swing voter | July 28, 2011, 10:21 pm 10:21 pm
Correct me if I am wrong, but wasn’t this country in the green when Clinton left office? Yes, Congress looks like a bunch of school kids on the playground, arguing over what game to play. I have seen kids make better sense and decisions then these grown, well educated people. I agree with lenh, we need to stop their paychecks after all we are their employers. They are not doing a satisfactory job, so lets let them go. They did not have a problem letting millions of jobs leave the US. Did they have or instituted a plan to put all of those misplaced back to work?
I did some research and a freshman representative starts out at $174,000. How many reps are in the house now? And not all of them are freshman.
Posted by: Bonny | July 28, 2011, 10:34 pm 10:34 pm
I have never posted to a blog but after seeing Linda’s post, I had to…@Linda: you could not have said it better. I am sick of one side trying to be right. I wish they would stop the power struggle and compromise for the better of the American people. WE voted them in and they aren’t doing what is in OUR best interests. I know it’s not easy trying to fix a problem that has been growing for years. But I do know this is not the way to do it.
Posted by: Dana | July 28, 2011, 10:36 pm 10:36 pm
Leading Isnt So Easy Is It GOP? Keep Learning
Posted by: swing voter | July 28, 2011, 10:39 pm 10:39 pm
The end of this game is watching these airplanes come and go while you look for the smallest infraction.
Posted by: Jim | July 28, 2011, 10:44 pm 10:44 pm
This is neither a republican problem nor a democrat problem. This is a congressional problem. Our representatives, each and every one of them, are responsible for this failure to pass legislation. At this point, it does not matter for which party we voted. We have clearly elected a group of individuals incapable of putting the greater good of the nation over their own ideological interests. What ever happened to compromise? Moreover, why are so many of our fellow citizens buying into the rhetoric of one party or the other? It seems fairly obvious that both are behaving childishly and risking our nation in the process.
Posted by: Moderation4me | July 28, 2011, 10:45 pm 10:45 pm
Gandalf the Gray Harry Reid shouted “YOU SHALL NOT PASS” at Boehner the Balrog. And then they both fell into the dark abyss. Anyone know the rest of the story? Do the Tea Party Hobbits return to Middle Earth? Does Harry Reid return as Gandalf the White? Will Rohan ever be the same?
Posted by: george | July 28, 2011, 10:45 pm 10:45 pm
The senate bill can’t pass on its own. Both houses of Congress have to vote on it.
never mind the constitution envisioned appropriation bills originate in the house
so if the democrats wait until the last second – they’ve waited too long – it has to go back to the house for passage.
Posted by: JoeD | July 28, 2011, 10:46 pm 10:46 pm
I have to agree with MODERATION4ME, it is not a party problem, it a congressional problem. The sad part is, that it is an American problem. I guess the question we need to be asking next is, how do we get them, Congress, to really understand they need to quit playing around and actually do their jobs? This is not just about them, it is about US and the country as a WHOLE.
Posted by: Bonny | July 28, 2011, 10:56 pm 10:56 pm
The problem there is that if you don’t pay a congressman their paycheck it doesn’t matter. They have enough money and lobby connections that they will still get their money.
Posted by: Win | July 28, 2011, 10:57 pm 10:57 pm
What is happening, in effect, is a three party government. When GOP can’t pass a house bill based on GOP votes alone they need to put up a bill that will satisfy some Democrats.
The truth of the matter is the GOP does not hold a majority in the house because the Tea Party is not really the GOP.
If Boehner would simply extend the 6 month limit on his current bill to 18 months the Democrats would vote yes taking the Tea Party out of the equation.
In the end it’s the new third party, the Tea Party, that is going to destroy our economy and nation.
Posted by: robertmiii | July 28, 2011, 11:03 pm 11:03 pm
You are so right, WIN. So it is back to the rich verus the rest of the country. There has to be a solution that would do justice for everyone, not just a select few.
Posted by: Bonny | July 28, 2011, 11:03 pm 11:03 pm
Hey idiots stop acting like children and come to an agreement
Posted by: Nick | July 28, 2011, 11:06 pm 11:06 pm
Dr. Sowell is for the Speaker’s plan, so I am in as well. I highly respect Dr. Sowell.
Posted by: D Roamer | July 28, 2011, 11:09 pm 11:09 pm
It’s important that readers understand my previous point; the Tea Party (a very polarized non compromising group with a narrow yet admirable agenda) is splitting the more centrist Republican Party.
Our government is moving toward a British and Canadian type system that has three parties and knows the intricacies of compromise to achieve a majority. Our two party system is dyeing before our eyes and we must learn the art of compromise to survive.
Boehner must ally some democrats for any chance of passing his bill.
Oh, as for Obama, he has no authority to initiate spending bills. He can suggest and request but only the House can put forth a plan, therefore the GOP will be blamed for our imploding economy.
Posted by: robertmiii | July 28, 2011, 11:26 pm 11:26 pm
Ironic that the default will be averted ‘by default’ where the last party to shove it’s bill into the mail slot gets to have it’s content hold sway over America.
Or stated another way, let’s flip a coin.
Congress is not competent to resolve matters when a complex decision must be hashed out on its merits, in broad daylight, without benefit of payoffs and back room deals.
If Congress were cleansed of all money, then they might get enough practice to start doing things right. But it would take a constitutional amendment saying money is banned and therefore money is not free speech. Free speech is free speech. What a concept. Let’s do it.
Posted by: sameagain | July 28, 2011, 11:29 pm 11:29 pm
If they made EVERY one of the proposed spending cuts and tax increases, they’d save about $6 trillion over 10 years, but $7 trillion (of projected $13 trillion 10-year deficit) would still be unfunded.
The only fix is to DOUBLE everything… double the cuts, double the policy changes to entitlement programs, and double the tax increase.
Posted by: DAVID | July 28, 2011, 11:32 pm 11:32 pm
ROBERTMIII…The TP is the wild card rogue element, that’s true.
It’s worthy to note that the TP is a party born of the Supreme Court’s over reaching Citizens United ruling that said corporation money is free speech and they may finance political campaigns.
Corporations financed astroturf political movements electing these selected ideologues knowing them for the useful idiots they would turn out to be; ready to sacrifice themselves in the name of preventing compromise.
Gotta admit it when a plan comes together. I pity the fools who elected them for what they are seeing played out now.
Posted by: sameagain | July 28, 2011, 11:41 pm 11:41 pm
The average American is not rich. Americans rely upon their elected representatives to represent the American interests. The poor, average middleclass and upper middle class are being recast. America is transisting to the poor and rich categories, the haves and have not. The so called helping hand until you can help yourself is being slowly removed. Thank you Tea Party, extreme left Republicans, extremely conservative Democrats. Obama is not to blame. You are. Anyone with ears and eyes can see past the Crap we are being fed. The budget has never been balanced. Obama is your excuse and cover to do the dirt you’ve been waiting to do for a very long time. Put fear in the majority and you have a clear field. Right on, but watch you stumble in your game after Obama leaves office
Posted by: Bobbie Hill | July 28, 2011, 11:53 pm 11:53 pm
DSR2…and thank you.
Posted by: sameagain | July 29, 2011, 12:51 am 12:51 am
No one could respect President Obama anymore, even my computer doesn’t recognize him in spell check. Just a lot of hot air, bull, big ego and no leadership.
Posted by: Freedom | July 29, 2011, 8:40 am 8:40 am
The 14th Amendment and/or the National Emergency Powers Act of 1933, either way the President has the power to raise the debt ceiling, make agreed on cuts, and if he is willing increase revenues. Let the Republican Party cry foul and take the issue into Federal Court. Defaulting on the National Debt does qualify as a National Security issue. If he is not willing to take that extra step, then he clearly does not belong in the White House.
Posted by: Arthur Bundy | July 29, 2011, 8:58 am 8:58 am
I’m all for the other nuclear option…a low-yield centered on the capital and start from scratch.
Posted by: gunner_1959 | July 29, 2011, 9:04 am 9:04 am
I am retireed, with SS benefits, and I have tried to find the bullseye on my back that Rep. Boehner and the rest of the republicans seem to think that I have. WHY is it that I have not heard that they will cut foreign aid and their saleries? Do they think that the feelings of the foreign aid recepents are more important than the American People?
Posted by: Maggers | July 29, 2011, 10:27 am 10:27 am
We need a national referendum on term limits for congressmen and senators. Perhaps this way they can serve the people instead of their next campaign. They’ll never vote for it themselves so we need to force limits on the time that we allow them to serve OUR interests as a nation… which evidently they are incapable of doing.
Posted by: Dan | July 29, 2011, 11:10 am 11:10 am
Yes, we need a national referendum. We need to research the Constitution, there is a way to control the power they, Congress, is abusing. I think it should be mandatory that any person running for public office needs to live like the rest of us average citizens for a year or two without help from family money or lobbyists. I do not think the ones in office now could survive on a fixed income of only 12,000 to 18,000 yet they expect us too.
They tell us how much they spend in foreign aid but how much of that is actually going into one of their pockets? Congress and the White House are so used to doing as they please with no regard to the American people, it is second nature to them. Not just this term, but it has been going on for decades.
We the average Americans do have different opinions and views from what we like to eat to religion however we have been able to live side by side with each other. We have learned to compromise and appreciate the differences amongst us. Congress can not even stay in the same room together without squabbling. I guess us Americans need to band together and treat Congress like our children. Tell them they need to learn to get along or go into time out..PERMANTENTLY.
Posted by: Bonny | July 29, 2011, 12:19 pm 12:19 pm
I have been registered republican my entire life and have voted in every election for the past 35 years.I can not remember a time when I have been so angry with my party.The so called Tea Party and the Democrate Progressives are holding all of us who beleive in compromise and what is good for our country hostage.Elected officals get yor act together and help all Americans
Posted by: Russell Gaun | July 29, 2011, 12:54 pm 12:54 pm
Why are so many elected officials on both sides opposed to a balanced budget amendment to the US Constitution as part of increasing the debt? We would raise the ceiling to provide enough time for a safe glide path to downsizing government and achieving a safe landing. That way, our credit rating will go up. The alternative is that our rating goes down and interest rates go up.
Posted by: Bill | July 29, 2011, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm
It’s time for the Republicans to stop hiding behind the Bible and the Swatstika and the Confederate flag — and COMPROMISE! What’s the matter? Afraid President Obama may be RIGHT? Grow up! Are you Republicans — or WUSSES?!
Posted by: baronightwolf | July 29, 2011, 2:26 pm 2:26 pm
I’ve sent the following text to my Senators, Schumer and Gillibrand, and my Representative, Tom Reed.
“I am extremely tired of the games being played by the Senate and House over the debt limit, this childish exercise may destroy the Full Faith and Credit of the United States and is unbecoming of you as my elected Senator/Representative. Please resolve this issue! Thank you.
Posted by: Ken Hall | July 29, 2011, 2:44 pm 2:44 pm
Why can’t they raise the basis for the wealthiest Americans from 250k to 500K? This would remove the argument about small business being hurt by a tax raise.
More taxes are necessary like it or not.
This childish non-compromise attitude among the newer members of our government is hurting the entire Country.
At this point I am so very very angry with the entire bunch of our elected officials.
Posted by: jorjab | July 29, 2011, 2:50 pm 2:50 pm
Raise the darn debt ceiling and tax the the wealthy! Get on with it!!
Come on keep, it real!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Sherice | July 29, 2011, 3:32 pm 3:32 pm
What an embarrassment to our country! The Democrats, and Republicans have to realize, this is not a contest to see who can spit the water melon seed the furthest. Our countries integrity, and financial future is at stake Why are they not doing the job they were hired for?
They need to review the proposals of both parties, and choose the ideas that will get us out of this dilemma. What is wrong with asking the rich to pay more taxes? How many more ‘THINGS’ do they need in their lives? Why don’t the politicians give up some of their perks, to help our country, and restore our faith in the government?
Our grandparents, and parents stepped up to aid our country during WW11. It’s our turn to step up to the plate, to preserve our country, because it is the right thing to do! St this point, one could only pray that ‘GOD WILL BLESS AMERICA’1
PS:
I am curious, why are there not term limits for the Senate, and Congress? There term limits for other political offices.
Posted by: Doris | July 29, 2011, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
What an embarrassment to our country! The Democrats, and Republicans have to realize, this is not a contest to see who can spit the water melon seed the furthest. Our countries integrity, and financial future is at stake Why are they not doing the job they were hired for?
They need to review the proposals of both parties, and choose the ideas that will get us out of this dilemma. What is wrong with asking the rich to pay more taxes? How many more ‘THINGS’ do they need in their lives? Why don’t the politicians give up some of their perks, to help our country, and restore our faith in the government?
Our grandparents, and parents stepped up to aid our country during WW11. It’s our turn to step up to the plate, to preserve our country, because it is the right thing to do! St this point, one could only pray that ‘GOD WILL BLESS AMERICA’1
PS:
I am curious, why are there not term limits for the Senate, and Congress? There term limits for other political offices.
Posted by: Doris | July 29, 2011, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
What an embarrassment to our country! The Democrats, and Republicans have to realize, this is not a contest to see who can spit the water melon seed the furthest. Our countries integrity, and financial future is at stake Why are they not doing the job they were hired for?
They need to review the proposals of both parties, and choose the ideas that will get us out of this dilemma. What is wrong with asking the rich to pay more taxes? How many more ‘THINGS’ do they need in their lives? Why don’t the politicians give up some of their perks, to help our country, and restore our faith in the government?
Our grandparents, and parents stepped up to aid our country during WW11. It’s our turn to step up to the plate, to preserve our country, because it is the right thing to do! St this point, one could only pray that ‘GOD WILL BLESS AMERICA’1
PS:
I am curious, why are there not term limits for the Senate, and Congress? There term limits for other political offices.
Posted by: Doris | July 29, 2011, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
What an embarrassment to our country! The Democrats, and Republicans have to realize, this is not a contest to see who can spit the water melon seed the furthest. Our countries integrity, and financial future is at stake Why are they not doing the job they were hired for?
They need to review the proposals of both parties, and choose the ideas that will get us out of this dilemma. What is wrong with asking the rich to pay more taxes? How many more ‘THINGS’ do they need in their lives? Why don’t the politicians give up some of their perks, to help our country, and restore our faith in the government?
Our grandparents, and parents stepped up to aid our country during WW11. It’s our turn to step up to the plate, to preserve our country, because it is the right thing to do! St this point, one could only pray that ‘GOD WILL BLESS AMERICA’1
PS:
I am curious, why are there not term limits for the Senate, and Congress? There term limits for other political offices.
Posted by: Doris | July 29, 2011, 5:36 pm 5:36 pm
I just have to ask, desperately: please, please, please stop focusing on the optics of the debt debate and tell me the ideas that are actually being debated! Instead of just saying that TEA Party Rs won’t vote for the bill, why not explain their reasoning? Instead of saying that the Senate won’t pass Boehner’s bill, why don’t you say why they think it’s a bad idea? And what about Reid’s plan?
I am so tired of hearing about the horse-race. Don’t get me wrong, it’s fascinating. But this is about cuts that will affect all Americans. This is about families, roads, food, electricity, internet, FAA, taxes, houses…I could go on and on. Instead of just saying what everyone’s bargaining position is, could you please tell me what kind of ideas they’re exchanging?
I want news, not circuses. I hope that one day, ABC News will be the kind of outlet that delivers real coverage. Until then, I’m focusing on Al-Jazeera.
Posted by: K. Byrd | July 29, 2011, 6:45 pm 6:45 pm
I truly feel President Obama has tried to deal constructively with issues that mean the most to Americans, such as health care. What I see and hear from Republicans is the same type of histrionics, distractions, and stonewalling they used to attack and stymie President Clinton. Now the Tea Heads have joined the party. As with Clinton, their main goal is to ensure that President Obama does not succeed. What has happened to the GOP? Is it the party above country now? The party at any cost? How much will you punish this country and its people to satisfy your ambition and megalomania?
Posted by: Zack | July 29, 2011, 6:59 pm 6:59 pm
Why should the seniors of this country be penalized for the actions of a congress and white house which has taken the money deposited in good faith for years and years and spent it? I don’t know how anyone could call Social Security an entitlement program. We have all paid through the nose for decades into Social Security. If we ever get back what we paid in it will be a miracle!! This includes Medicare, which I have personally paid into for over 40 years and then when I’m 65 still have to pay for it, and it is more than my health insurance now! What a ripoff!
Posted by: Patsy88 | July 29, 2011, 7:01 pm 7:01 pm
Obama keeps telling congress to come up with a solution. The Republicans have been working day and night to cut the spending. Every time they come up with a plan the Democrats nix it. Seems to me that the left is planning on sinking the economy and have no desire to stop spending.
Posted by: alex | July 29, 2011, 8:56 pm 8:56 pm
I expect our senators and representatives to work with the White House for the greater good of the country. I am fed up with the interests of the Tea Party, the liberals, the conservative, etc.. At what point do we stop trying to beat each other on every issue, and work together for the common good? I conceptually approve of President Obama’s notion of a balanced approach that seems to include some financial pain for ALL OF US (including the wealthy) in the interest of a solution. I expect our leaders to preserve Social Security and Medicare, which many of us have paid into our entire working lives. I understand the issues involved, and am willing to accept a modest reduction in benefits if that moves us in a useful direction. I am not willing to give these programs up simply to gratify the wishes of the Tea Party or any other conservative group. Liberals must be willing to give ground as well. I am prepared to vote against any legislator who stubbornly pursues her/his party’s platform in this critical hour, regardless of party.
Posted by: Bill H | July 29, 2011, 10:04 pm 10:04 pm
Just watched J.Karl slanted rundown on nightline. Where where you in 2006 debt debate? Check your debt numbers for Obama you left out a few trillion……. And dont forget the current 1.2 trillion budget deficit for 2012…and the fact that the stimulus dollars are in this years budget as well.
You just refuse to tell the truth.
Posted by: Lea | July 30, 2011, 12:16 am 12:16 am
Yeah, let’s give the debt to our children and grandchildren, so the rich can get richer and the poor can get poorer. Of course, this is what the Republicans want. Why would it be logical for the people who have money to
pay their fair share in taxes, when the poor and middle class people can afford it? And for God,s sake, we wouldn’t want the corporations to pay their fair share, because they might have to lay some more people off, and that would make the economy worse. Come on, Republicans, pull your heads out of your asses. We do not need to go deeper in debt. We need for you Republicans and your friends in high places to finally pay their fair share of taxes, like we democrats do.
Posted by: AMY | July 30, 2011, 1:54 am 1:54 am
REPUBLICAN PROPAGANDA NO MORE. You’re getting booted out just like we did the last time.
Posted by: JOE | July 30, 2011, 1:47 pm 1:47 pm
Quit worrying who’s to blame on the economic crisis.. We must Hurry up with a solution to the crisis. We must push aside the politicians and take our University Economic professors and get them on the job to solve this problem. NOW!
Posted by: Theresa | July 30, 2011, 5:18 pm 5:18 pm
what is going on with the republican ?
Posted by: NINA | July 30, 2011, 10:26 pm 10:26 pm
5 good people sit down for 1 hour and get the job done! what the hell is going on on the hill? If I had the power, I would lock every one in the same room and tell them no one go’s home till they DO THERE JOBS, AND MAKE’S A FAIR BILL! BUT THIS WOULD HAVE HAPPENED 30 DAY’S AGO NOT THE LAST MIN! WHAT A BUNCH OF BABY’S! I HOPE WE VOTE EACH AND EVERY ONE OUT OF OFFICE! IF YOU CAN NOT DO YOUR JOBS THEN GET THE HE11 OUT OF THE WAY, AND WE WILL SEND THE 5 GOOD PEOPLE TO DO IT FOR YOU! BY THE WAY WE WANT YOU ALL NEED TO PAY BACK YOUR CHECKS FOR NOT DOING YOUR JOBS! I WOULD NOT GET PAID IF I DID NOT DO THE WORK I WAS PAID TO DO, AND THEN I WOULD LOSE MY JOB! WE FEEL THE SAME SHOULD HAPPEN TO EACH OF YOU!!!!!!!!!
Posted by: Soldier.53 | July 31, 2011, 1:59 pm 1:59 pm
I think they want a pay raise, for messing up our credit ratting! and making the USA look like fools! R U ALL NUTS????? What happen to men and woman we put our offices to run this land???? we R looking at a bunch of BABY’S!
Posted by: Soldier.53 | July 31, 2011, 2:04 pm 2:04 pm