Exclusive: ATF Director’s ‘Eyes Nearly Popped Out of (His) Head’ When he Learned ATF Might Have Been Selling Guns to FBI in ‘Fast and Furious’

Interviewed by congressional investigators earlier this month, acting director of the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms Ken Melson agreed that the allegations that federal agencies weren’t sharing information regarding the Fast & Furious program were “eye-popping,” according to transcripts of the interview exclusively obtained by ABC News.
In the controversial Fast & Furious program, the ATF trafficked assault weapons across the Mexican border in order to try to locate criminals. But many of the guns have since shown up at crime scenes in the US, and one theory investigators are exploring is that the ATF agents were unknowingly selling weapons to straw purchasers created by the FBI using informants and maybe even taxpayer money.
Melson was asked about this – politely called an “interagency communication issue” — when he testified behind closed doors to congressional investigators over 4th of July weekend. In the below excerpt from that testimony, Melson describes a conversation with the deputy attorney general (DAG) Jim Cole on July 16, the day after the ATF hearing on the Hill. “IG” is a reference to the inspector general who is investigating the Fast & Furious case internally at the Justice Department.
Below is the relevant exchange:
Q: Do you have any concerns that because you raised the interagency communication issue with the DAG and also with the IG that you might be viewed as speaking out of turn.
MELSON: Well, I guess I have — I have got concerns about talking with you about it, as well as pushing it as I have in the Department, because it could be a very sensitive issue. I don't know. Better communication with them would have helped me understand how sensitive it is, if it is, or what the ramifications of its disclosure is. I mentioned it to the DAG's office in good faith to try and avoid further damage to the Department or the government if this thing is as you have laid it out and it unravels and the American public sees ATF investigating straw purchasers and another agency working the money angle and the ordering of the weapons. I mean, that would make us look pretty silly, I think. So my mention of it to the DAG's office was simply to let them know, to give them a head's up so if this was occurring, they could figure out what to do with it. And we weren't getting any responses. I'm still concerned about it. I'm still concerned about not just what was done, but what could be ongoing as well.
Q: When I first heard about the information sharing issues, my eyes nearly popped out of my head.
MELSON: Well, so did mine.
Q: I'm curious when you communicated that to the DAG, did his eyes pop out of his head, did he think this was a big problem.
MELSON: I can't tell you what he thought or how he thought. But he simply said, "We will have to look into it."
Justice Department spokeswoman Tracy Schmaler writes that, “Any notion that the Department has failed to cooperate with the investigation is simply not based in fact. These allegations serve only to distract from the concerns raised by ATF agents that the Committee and the Department’s Inspector General are investigating and ignore the substantial efforts by the Department regarding this investigation, including providing various staff briefings, testimony from officials, interviews with employees and thousands of pages of documents, to the Committee. The Department, like the Committee, is interested in determining whether Operation Fast and Furious was appropriately handled and that is why the Attorney General, several months ago, asked the IG to investigate the concerns raised by ATF agents.”
-Jake Tapper
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Another great reason to disband the ATF…
Posted by: Legalize | July 18, 2011, 3:03 pm 3:03 pm
You can’t tell me that Homeland Security and Eric Holder and the Dept. of Justice just found out about this…No one sends guns to the enemy across the border with out their ok and probably the Presidents. They should be fired immediately and charged.
Posted by: Freedom | July 18, 2011, 3:16 pm 3:16 pm
“They should be fired immediately and charged.”
Mistakes are made…
Posted by: F&F2 | July 18, 2011, 3:23 pm 3:23 pm
The media will let the Obama administration slide.
Posted by: LongT | July 18, 2011, 3:31 pm 3:31 pm
“We will have to look into it.”
Yes, please do…
Posted by: n2vip | July 18, 2011, 3:36 pm 3:36 pm
Obama will be impeached over this and Holder will be led off to jail…They have been stonewalling Congress hoping this will pass over, Issa should supeona all the emails between the white house and ABC, CBS and NBC
Posted by: Did I hear that right | July 18, 2011, 3:46 pm 3:46 pm
Posted by: Did I hear that right | Jul 18, 2011 3:46:34 PM
Someone who knows almost nothing about the situation fortune telling into the future.
Posted by: barb | July 18, 2011, 3:55 pm 3:55 pm
F&F2: “Mistakes are made . . .”
Like the creation of this program and the election of Barrack Obama. Mistakes indeed!
Posted by: Anonymous | July 18, 2011, 3:57 pm 3:57 pm
Like the creation of this program and the election of Barrack Obama. Mistakes indeed!
Posted by: Anonymous | Jul 18, 2011 3:57:45 PM
Like the mistake on the weapons of mass destruction that killed at least a hundred thousand Iraqis?
Like the ‘rough patch’ in the economy Bush saw?
Posted by: barb | July 18, 2011, 4:03 pm 4:03 pm
–Like the mistake on the weapons of mass destruction that killed at least a hundred thousand Iraqis?–
If only Bush hadn’t listened to Hillary, Bill and Gore!
Posted by: Scudfest | July 18, 2011, 4:22 pm 4:22 pm
Hello America, I think it was 60 minutes, that covered the Murder of the mayor of Sandiago, Mexico. or the town near the Texas, Mexican border were police carried owned by the Mexican Cartel carried out the assination, they claimed they could kill anyone anytime, because of their influence, who can but doubt that the ATF is owned and operated by the said Mexican Drug Cartel, to supply Arms to these thugs? as I have always said many of the Mexican Drug Cartel Kingpins hold high office in the United States law enforcement community, and this is only proof of the said allogation. I think we need to do away with the ATF Agency. write your congressman. sincerely Fezzy Bear
Posted by: Fezzy Bear | July 18, 2011, 4:29 pm 4:29 pm
“Like the creation of this program and the election of Barrack Obama. Mistakes indeed!”
I blame guns.
Posted by: Pistole | July 18, 2011, 4:32 pm 4:32 pm
poor Holder, this pesky little story is like the flu..just when you think its over…
Posted by: cindy | July 18, 2011, 4:50 pm 4:50 pm
Obama could be caught naked in bed with a 10 year old boy and a pet goat, and the LSM would report naught, if Obama goes down, so goes the LSM.
Obama may not be a natural born citizen, but there is no denying that he is a natural born liar.
Posted by: Old Duffer | July 18, 2011, 4:54 pm 4:54 pm
Fast & Furious was probably designed to “prove” the administration’s claim that 90% of the firearms in the drug cartel’s arsenals came from the U.S. Heck, they couldn’t have come from all of the arms smugglers from Central America…all those grenade launchers had to come from the U.S., right?
Posted by: 1911A1Bob | July 18, 2011, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm
Fast & Furious was probably designed to “prove” the administration’s claim that 90% of the firearms in the drug cartel’s arsenals came from the U.S. Heck, they couldn’t have come from all of the arms smugglers from Central America…all those grenade launchers had to come from the U.S., right?
Posted by: 1911A1Bob | July 18, 2011, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm
Fast & Furious was probably designed to “prove” the administration’s claim that 90% of the firearms in the drug cartel’s arsenals came from the U.S. Heck, they couldn’t have come from all of the arms smugglers from Central America…all those grenade launchers had to come from the U.S., right-
RPGs are good weapon, da? Good for vehicles and people, structure, even helicopter!
Posted by: Ivan | July 18, 2011, 5:15 pm 5:15 pm
Investigative journalism is dead in this country as this is the biggest scandal and cover-up in the history of the United States government and the media all but ignores it. All logic and common sense would tell you that President Obama who told his gun control friends, that he was working on it “under the radar” had full knowledge of the whole operation. The Mexican Government was not informed about any of this and heard about it on Fox News when the rest of us heard about it. Over 2500 assault weapons (the exact ones that Obama wants to ban) were ALLOWED to “Walk” over the border with the Border Patrol instructed to let them pass. (Whistleblower” testimony. The gun dealers called and protested and were ORDERED to sell to the questionable purchasers. The Border Patrol protested and were told to shut up and obey orders. A Border Patrol Agent was murdered with one of the guns and a State Department Employee was killed with one in Mexico. Many Mexican officials, Mayors, and law officers have been killed with these weapons. This whole operation is so bad and so ILLEGAL that I cannot believe that Obama and Holder are not in jail, as well as the mainstream media who has been complicit in the cover-up. Fox News reported this three months ago and CBS reported on it 6 weeks ago and the Obama Justice Department has been stonewalling Congressman Darrell Issa who has been investigating it since it first broke.
Posted by: ROYSTOLL2 | July 18, 2011, 5:20 pm 5:20 pm
This story needs to be kept alive by us because the media is shirking its duty once again.
Posted by: ConservativeWoman | July 18, 2011, 5:28 pm 5:28 pm
By the way, there were an untold number of these AK-47′s that were sold to criminal elements in the U.S. with absolutely no tracking or follow-up on where they went. This is the most illegal thing that I have seen our government do and they are going to get away with it clean. Nobody has been dismissed or arrested over this. Whistleblowers have been punished or re-assigned. All of the evidence is there and in the possession of Congressman Darrell Issa but the Obama Whitehouse is ignoring him. Please write your Congressman and stop this before more people get killed.
Posted by: ROYSTOLL2 | July 18, 2011, 5:34 pm 5:34 pm
Yep this was that “New Effort” they began back in 2009 since Gunrunner began under Bush in 2006. You know that Video the Liberals are claiming does not prove anything.Since Gunrunner began in 2005 what was the “New Effort” that the “President was directing”?
Posted by: Cindy | July 18, 2011, 5:38 pm 5:38 pm
Obama may not be a natural born citizen
Posted by: Old Duffer | Jul 18, 2011 4:54:41 PM
Yeah, we’ve heard from your type before . . .
Posted by: barb | July 18, 2011, 5:51 pm 5:51 pm
CRIMINAL!!!! Criminal to BLAME American citizens for the guns going to Mexico…when ALL along it was our OWN government WREAKING HAVOC on Mexicans and AMERICANS….allowing them the weaponry to kill their own police, and innocent citizenry not to mention our police and citizenry…just so they could build a case to TAKE AWAY OUR GUNS IN AMERICA!!!! We call this a FALSE FLAG operation…and it is DESPICABLE!!! What the ‘hale’ is happening to this country????
Posted by: Zellie | July 18, 2011, 5:51 pm 5:51 pm
Gunrunner began under Bush in 2006.
Posted by: Cindy | Jul 18, 2011 5:38:26 PM
Really! It began under Bush . . . that’s somehow not that surprising.
Posted by: Art | July 18, 2011, 5:53 pm 5:53 pm
Really! It began under Bush . . . that’s somehow not that surprising.
——————
And the nasty stuff continues under Bush the 3rd…Not surprising either.
Posted by: Guantanamo | July 18, 2011, 5:55 pm 5:55 pm
Why aren’t heads rolling on this criminal act….let’s see how it went down…some niconpoop decided to sell ILLEGAL assault rifles to drug lords so they could track where they ended up in Mexico? I can’t believe it, is this the best our great country can do???? I mean, they can find FROM SPACE a dot on the head of a person…but they can’t track DRUG movements (loot, people, and drugs)???? This idea is so STUPID (STOOOOPID)….and so destructive and so evil – it should be creativing HAVOC with our government!!! WHO and WHAT is going to take responsibility for this outrage???
Posted by: Zellie | July 18, 2011, 5:55 pm 5:55 pm
Even the most critical media report is prefaced with the claim that the operation was intended to track guns to the cartel bosses. That is ludacris. That could not possibly have been the intent since they obviously KNEW they had no possible way to track the guns. Why does the media keep parroting the ridiculous claim?
The fact is the only intent from the get go was criminal. The Obama Administration has sponsored international terrorism.
Posted by: Coyotejoe | July 18, 2011, 6:03 pm 6:03 pm
POSTED BY: GUANTANAMO | JUL 18, 2011 5:55:42 PM Really! It began under Bush . . . that’s somehow not that surprising.
Project Gunrunner was not gunwalking … know the difference! Black OP Fast and Furious and Castaway were gunwalking OP’s Under the Obama administration!! It now spans 4 states.
Posted by: Cindy | July 18, 2011, 6:17 pm 6:17 pm
Why isn’t this on the ABC News front page on the TV News? Why isn’t the whole F&F mess covered by ABC?
Posted by: MikeJ | July 18, 2011, 6:23 pm 6:23 pm
Holder lied about just finding out…he gave a speech in mexico citing the Program long ago. Holder and Obama lie while people die.
Posted by: Footie Hill | July 18, 2011, 6:36 pm 6:36 pm
Simple fact, Obama is an idiot !
Posted by: BillClinton | July 18, 2011, 6:42 pm 6:42 pm
Holder lied about just finding out…he gave a speech in mexico citing the Program long ago. Holder and Obama lie while people die.
Posted by: Footie Hill | Jul 18, 2011 6:36:21 PM
Very true. There’s more. There was !0 million dollars allotted in Obama’s stimulus for thie operation. Time for the media to INVESTIGATE!
Posted by: wheresmymoney | July 18, 2011, 7:17 pm 7:17 pm
Cindy you are right that it did begin under bush, however, the people also were arrested and charged.
The DOJ Report issued in November 2010 on this operation shows the timeline as it beginning in 2005 in Laredo, Texas, and officially began in June 2006. This report says the first time the operation got money was from the Recovery Act, where it got some 10 Million dollars. This is reported somewhere around page 110-112 of the 152 page report.
Posted by: james | July 18, 2011, 7:28 pm 7:28 pm
Who cares which President started it. Now we know about it; it is still occurring; nothing is being done about it. How is it that anyone could be so juvenile as to use the “Bush did it” clause? Are we 5 years old? I didn’t care for Bush…I also don’t care for what is happening right now. Get a clue people they are all politicians the party line smoke and mirrors does nothing but keep us busy enough not to notice what is happening until it is too late…the red and blue egg cracking Lilliputians are the perfect base for their criminal culture. Congratulations America.
Posted by: Danelle | July 18, 2011, 7:29 pm 7:29 pm
The resolution needed is Obama and Holder on treason charges and this needs to be done before they do something equally stupid to get more illegals hispanic voters.
Posted by: Dave Templeton | July 18, 2011, 7:45 pm 7:45 pm
Actually, It is already on record that Gun dealers were ordered AFTER PROTESTING to sale the guns to suspicious people who they thought/knew were criminals. I don’t buy it was just poor communications either……apparently they knew low lifes were buying the weapons but still forced the sales thru.
Posted by: Footie Hill | July 18, 2011, 7:53 pm 7:53 pm
The resolution needed is Obama and Holder on treason charges and this needs to be done before they do something equally stupid to get more illegals hispanic voters. Posted by: Dave Templeton | Jul 18, 2011 7:45:55 PM…………..and just how in the world does this make sense. Why would you even write something this ridiculous – it just makes you sound foolish.
Posted by: naturalcuriosity | July 18, 2011, 8:06 pm 8:06 pm
“Obama will be impeached over this and Holder will be led off to jail…”
Please they are Democrats and none of their MSM groupies will ever allow that to happen. They will find a way soon to hoist a ton of stories about the evil Republicans who shared emails about this little triviality. You see the crime will not be that once again a Democrat screws the pooch and get a bunch of Americans killed, no it will be that the Republicans asked questions about it.
Only the most stupid don’t realize that this entire fiasco occurred at the EXACT SAME TIME that Obama, Holder and all their MSM concubine were running around running stories that it was the evil “gun-toting” Americans who were supplying the guns to the innocent killers in Mexico. CBS, ABC, CNN, & NBC all ran propaganda articles for Obama at this time about the evil Americans supplying guns to the Mexicans like the little toadies they are.
And of course, the Marxist messiah had a plan to deal with those “evil” Americans, ending the 2nd Amendment and gun-control. And so like all Leftists who cares about a few dead Americans, you have to break a few eggs to have a marxist paradise, just ask the NY Times or some of other leftists other beloved idols…..Lenin, Castro, Mao, or Che.
Anyway a good leftist will tell you…the “pig” border security officer probably deserved it for trying to stop the future Obama voters from invading the country.
Posted by: LogicalUS | July 18, 2011, 8:17 pm 8:17 pm
mikej wrote:”Why isn’t this on the ABC News front page on the TV News? Why isn’t the whole F&F mess covered by ABC?”
.
Real simple… DEMOCRAT pResident. Professional courtesy amongst the progressives.
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | July 18, 2011, 9:21 pm 9:21 pm
Impeachment, trial, and a prison cell right next to Bernie Madoff.
Posted by: Footie Hill | July 18, 2011, 9:41 pm 9:41 pm
This is an impeachable offense that should be made into a campaign issue. Watergate was a simple recon break-in, while this illegal attempt to affect the 2nd Ammendment debate leaves blood on O’bama and AG Holder’s hands. Unlike Watergate, we can’t count on the lamestream media to investigate this corruption. Note how the reporter’s leading “popping eyeballs” question was used in the headline to frame a story which skirts the central issue of “what did the President and radical AG Holder know and when did they know it”. Sadly, ee now need illegal aliens to do the jobs that journalists just won’t do anymore.
Posted by: Pinky | July 19, 2011, 7:42 am 7:42 am
MELSON: I can’t tell you what he thought or how he thought. But he simply said, “We will have to look into it.”
Well it’s darn hard to look into anything when your head is stuck where the sun doesn’t shine.
Posted by: Noz | July 19, 2011, 7:45 am 7:45 am
Many are still asking what and when did the Attorney General of the D.O.J. or other members of our government know?
Note the date on this brief:
Posted by: Dark Knight | July 19, 2011, 8:39 am 8:39 am
It Seems worth Repeating that Taking Holders word “That this was a that he had not heard of “Fast and Furious” is a lot like taking John Mitchell’s word that Watergate was an isolated incident. Oh accept there were fatalities at Watergate.
Posted by: rick | July 19, 2011, 8:53 am 8:53 am
If this administration gave $10 millions dollars from the so called “Recovery Act” to fund giving guns to the Cartel it is treasonable. The justice department is not going to do anything, an Independent council needs to be appointed now and the news media needs to do it job and really investigate. Not just be a PR outlet for this administration.
Posted by: Freedom | July 19, 2011, 9:28 am 9:28 am
The ATF and DOJ are either negligent or incompetent. Negligent for not knowing about this when they should have or incompetent because they approved it.
The ATF needs to be dissolved and Holder needs to be impeached. These are despicable acts against the American people.
Posted by: MJAlton | July 19, 2011, 9:30 am 9:30 am
I’ve even heard cops describe the ATF as the government’s S.S. squad.
Posted by: LongT | July 19, 2011, 9:42 am 9:42 am
I’ll take your lack of defense of Obama, in this, as admission of his guilt. Some things are indefensible.
BARB: “Like the mistake on the weapons of mass destruction that killed at least a hundred thousand Iraqis?”
While it’s hard to say what Saddam did with the WMD the UN couldn’t account for, we did find WMD, post-war, just in smaller amounts. We found that Saddam continued to develop several WMD programs, while putting others on hold, maintaining seed stocks and such, until sanctions were eventually lifted. Saddam played the sanctions game like a fiddle. We also found that Saddam was working with and supporting international Islamic terrorist groups, including al Qaeda. The combination of WMD and terrorism with an enemy like Iraq in a post-9/11 world would have been irresponsible to ignore. Kind of like how Clinton ignored al Qaeda in the 90s, resulting in 9/11.
BARB: “Like the ‘rough patch’ in the economy Bush saw?”
The recession inherited from Clinton was problematic. Maybe you’re speaking of the government-induced sub-prime market meltdown.
Posted by: Anonymous | July 19, 2011, 9:53 am 9:53 am
So now they plant guns to give themselves work, this is a prime example of the cutting the government that must be done.
Posted by: snewsom2997 | July 19, 2011, 10:32 am 10:32 am
Eric Holder lied to the House investigative subcommittee and everybody else involved is showing up at the subcommittee questioning with their personal lawyers in attendence. There aren’t going to be too many people falling on their own swords over this felony fiasco. This is big and getting bigger by the day. Even Watergate didn’t hit this hard from the start. Whole media entities will now live or die according to how they treat this story. Right now some of Obama’s staunchest media allies are jumping ship and trying to stay with events as the story unfolds. Others are not and they will probably be reduced to ad filled local tabloids before Regime Change hits in 2012.
Posted by: Nanjing03 | July 19, 2011, 10:49 am 10:49 am
Disbanding the ATF and giving the FBI the firearm laws to enforce. WOW, what a great plan, to eventually have this nation operating with a national police force. Wonder which administration would like to see that plan put into action? SO, start thinking you so called Patriots: DOJ used ATF. Now the WH has ordered a massive cut of the ATF budget because of the Agent Whistleblowers. Its also known as insider retaliation. Cut the agency to the bone, leave them with nothing and limited numbers of employees, then disband them to “cut budgets”. Then move the laws to the FBI. Do you really think the FBI enforceing firearm laws is what the NRA members want? ATF is very small, underfunded, understaffed, so the perfect pawn for the DOJ and WH to use to push for more firearm laws and more control over pro-gun rights groups. DOJ and WH are so very close to getting all they want, because most people don’t get it.
Posted by: 1800 Silver | July 19, 2011, 3:19 pm 3:19 pm
This is going to lead to someone being charges with accomplice to murder…Holder? Obamao?
Posted by: TruckerMatt | July 23, 2011, 10:53 am 10:53 am
impeach Obama
Posted by: alex court | July 26, 2011, 11:28 am 11:28 am