Flat Tax Outpaces 9-9-9 in Poll, Notably Among Conservatives
EmailA flat tax like the one proposed today by Republican presidential candidate Gov. Rick Perry engenders a split decision in public opinion — if not the warmest reception, a better one than the public’s broader disapproval of his rival Herman Cain’s 9-9-9 plan.
While a flat tax divides the nation overall, moreover, it resonates most strongly in a group of particular interest to Perry – “very conservative” Americans, a key GOP voting group. They hold favorable views of a flat tax by a broad 68-28 percent in this ABC News/Washington Post poll, suggesting a strategic rationale for Perry’s initiative.
More broadly, there’s greater division: Americans overall split by 47-48 percent on the notion of a flat tax – that is, removing most income tax deductions and charging all taxpayers the same tax rate, instead of charging higher rates on higher incomes. That’s almost identical to the 48-48 percent split on a flat tax in a different ABC/Post question back in August 1996.
Views are more lopsided on Cain’s idea of setting the federal income tax, business tax and a national sales tax at 9 percent each. Americans by a 20-point margin, 56-36 percent, hold an unfavorable opinion of the 9-9-9 plan. And intensity runs against the idea: it’s seen “strongly” unfavorably rather than strongly favorably by a 3-1 margin, 35 percent vs. 12 percent.
SPLITS – While partisan and ideological divisions mark these views, so do other factors in this poll, produced for ABC News by Langer Research Associates. In both cases, for example, the new tax approaches are significantly more popular among better-off adults, those in $100,000-plus households, vs. those with annual incomes of $50,000 or less.
In the better-off category, 58 percent favor a flat tax system; that drops to 44 percent among people with incomes less than $50,000. And while fewer than half of wealthier adults, 49 percent, like 9-9-9, that falls to 33 percent in the lower-income group.
Politically, favorable views of a flat tax peak at 56 percent among Republicans, but subside to 46 percent among independents and four in 10 Democrats. The 9-9-9 plan, for its part, doesn’t win majority backing in any of these groups. It’s seen unfavorably by 50 percent of Republicans, rising to about six in 10 Democrats and independents alike.
IDEOLOGY – Some of the most striking divisions are ideological, with results shedding light on the positioning of Perry’s flat-tax proposal. He’s done best in support among very conservative Americans, an overwhelmingly Republican group that’s been less supportive of Mitt Romney. But Perry has been challenged lately among strong conservatives by Cain.
The flat tax looks to be Perry’s pushback. As noted, very conservative Americans express a favorable opinion of a flat tax plan by a vast 40-point margin. The same group, by contrast, only divides on 9-9-9, with 46 percent seeing it favorably, 49 percent unfavorably.
As a broader campaign theme, though, a challenge for Perry is in extending flat-tax support beyond very conservatives. Favorable views of the idea drop by 17 percentage points, to 51 percent, among people who call themselves “somewhat” conservative; and fall farther, to about four in 10 favorable, among moderates and liberals alike.
OTHERS – There are differences among other groups. Both plans are about 10 points more popular among men than among women, even after controlling for political and income differences. The 9-9-9 proposal does better with younger adults and less well with seniors; a flat tax skews in the other direction – more popular with older Americans.
And education is an independent factor in views of a flat tax: People who’ve done postgraduate work are much more likely to look askance at the idea, responding unfavorably by nearly 2-1, 62-34 percent. Since education predicts voter turnout, that, too, may be a longer-term challenge for Perry and other flat-tax proponents.
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Only idiots would agree to cut capital gains to ZIP and give the super billionaires more. We know they didn’t bring us jobs. This country is beyond hope anymore.
Posted by: secondlook | October 25, 2011, 3:41 pm 3:41 pm
Anybody think a flat tax has a chance of passage? Fighting the lobbying efforts for real estate, banking, accounting, to name a few will be impossible. Those groups don’t want a flat tax as it would potentially adversely affect their industries and earnings. Our Government has shown time and time again that it is the best money can buy and these industries have plenty of money.
Posted by: Give Me a Break | October 25, 2011, 3:50 pm 3:50 pm
Hopefully this damn world will end before the next election – no good candiates out there and obama needs to go!
Posted by: Jane Rice | October 25, 2011, 3:51 pm 3:51 pm
Aren’t the Bush tax cuts still in effect???, and look how much the rich have invested in creating jobs already.
Posted by: MiketheElectrician | October 25, 2011, 4:05 pm 4:05 pm
Flat Tax with lower tax rates for the wealthy if you want, or same old mess with breaks for the wealthy if not. Once again Perry has shown that his platform is: “Government of the wealthy, By the wealthy and For the wealthy.”
Posted by: Donald W. Hiorth | October 25, 2011, 4:16 pm 4:16 pm
A flat tax with an option to use the other system will guarantee lower revenues.
I think a modified flat tax might be passable, but how do you prevent future generations
of congress from messing with it?
Posted by: Richard | October 25, 2011, 4:35 pm 4:35 pm
I voted for Obama in 2008 because I thought, as a black man, it was time we haves a black president. That turned out to be a bad choice. Obama haves did nothing for African Americans at all other than make us haves less jobs and benefits. Funds promised never come our way. We never haves the free healthcare that he promise and now it looks like the publicans are getting rid of that all the way. We never got nothing for slavery and the Mexicans still come in as they please and takes our jobs away. The cops still profiles us and the prisons are full of African Americans because of racist judges. Obama did nothing.
Posted by: Leroy | October 25, 2011, 4:45 pm 4:45 pm
Posted by: Leroy—he didn’t do nothing, he did put your kids and grandkids another 4 trillion in debt.
Posted by: snewsom2997 | October 25, 2011, 4:56 pm 4:56 pm
Rick Perry’s plan is all for the rich and will not provide even the bare essentials to run a federal government. I have a better plan. No sales tax, no income tax and no property tax. Instead we should have an asset tax of 1/2 of 1% on all assets including real estate, personal property including intangibles taxed at fair market value with a deduction of $1,000,000 per person. States will get a per capita rebate. All assets listed at fair market value can be bid on by anyone at that value with the owner permitted to raise his/her listed fair market value. If you have no assets, you pay no tax.
Posted by: Ted | October 25, 2011, 4:57 pm 4:57 pm
Where are all the comments?
Posted by: Ted | October 25, 2011, 5:00 pm 5:00 pm
Unbelievable. Both plains put a larger proportion of the tax burden on the middle class, and still the Republicans get middle-class votes.
Posted by: jock59801 | October 25, 2011, 5:03 pm 5:03 pm
@Leroy, if that is your real time. Just how stupid do you think people really are? Do you actually think that people will read your asinine post and think that it was written by an illiterate black man? I’ll let you in on something, the average black person does not speak in the manner you’re trying to infer. If you want Obama out of office be a man and speak for yourself. Please don’t hide behind your ignorance and cowardice because most people black or white will pick up on it the very minute they read your stupid and childish post. I wouldn’t try and make people think through my post that I am some sort of back woods Bubba piece of white trash because believe it or not I wouldn’t want to insult you like that.
Posted by: Spencer | October 25, 2011, 5:04 pm 5:04 pm
Prick Perry will tell you whatever you want to hear while he is speaking to you or if it sounds good at the time. Ask the clown about the Gov Mansion renovations and his outrageous spending on his temporary living expenses he charged to the Texas taxpayers. Don’t let Prick fool you because he is just as sleazy as he looks!
Posted by: Mark | October 25, 2011, 5:05 pm 5:05 pm
Who are you polling? Morons?
Even Rick Perry stated that “I don’t care….” when he was asked about the disparity in the new illusionary scheme
Posted by: Lee Barnett | October 25, 2011, 5:06 pm 5:06 pm
One plan depends on Americans only buying used goods; the other plan depends on the middle class voluntarily paying a 20% flat tax instead of the 8 to 9% they pay now. Give me a break where the hell do they come up with these plans, Sesame Street?
Posted by: tmferretti | October 25, 2011, 5:07 pm 5:07 pm
@Leroy, (If that is your real name) do you really think that people will believe that you are an illiterate black man dissatisfied with President Obama? Why don’t you be a man and speak for yourself if you have something against our president. I wouldn’t dare try and portray myself as a beer guzzling piece of trash from the backwoods because that would probably be very insulting to you and your family.
Posted by: Spencer | October 25, 2011, 5:10 pm 5:10 pm
perry’s plan is just ludicrous. No way that passes. Cain’s plan is better, but here’s how to make it FAIR:
9% on personal income: with health care premiums, retirement savings, state taxes, and property taxes still exempt. Exempt families that make below $50k.
Keep capital gains tax, make it 10% (or even 9%, making it the 9-9-9-9 plan) – at least the rich will still pay something.
It’s still simple, but it’s also fair!
Posted by: moderate_guy | October 25, 2011, 5:13 pm 5:13 pm
A tiered flat tax might be ok If it is based on ability to pay like all income over 20,000 dollars for an individual and 35,000 for a couple taxed at a flat rate of 15 to 25 % that would be a bit more fair and any individual that makes over 200,000 taxed at a 30% flat rate if you make over 1 million then 45% rate regardless if you an individual or a corporate entity. as an investor20% capitol gains over 100,000. that way those that live on other peoples work also are supporting the government that supplies goods and services to all people regardless of income level.
Posted by: Kent | October 25, 2011, 5:16 pm 5:16 pm
As watched Rick Perry’s news conference as he presented his tax plan I could tell that he really didn’t understand what he was saying. He was repeating what his handlers told him to say and if someone would have asked for more details of his plan it would have been a total disaster for him.
Posted by: Spencer | October 25, 2011, 5:22 pm 5:22 pm
I would like to take a moment to remind all americans who actually get a live check…… THESE FLAT RATE PLANS ARE NOT FOR YOU……….. The reason is simple…… because of the way wealth is distributed in this country, the wealthy make up 1 % and the poor make up 99% of the population…… that being said….. THE MONEY STILL HAS TO COME IN…… With a flat tax that means the rich will pay a smaller percentage of the overal and the poor (that is me and you) will pay MORE to make up for it……… A couple more things, these flat tax palns do not address SSI AND MEDICARE, which boh of these candidates plan to eleiminate……. which means to me and you, WE WILL NEVER BE ABLE TO RETIRE……. is what they are actually saying, not to mention Rick perry wants to eleiminate HALF of our childrens education to pay for the tax cuts for the wealthy.
And one last thing….all of them are starting to develope loopholes that were not there last week……. sounds to me like someone has been lieing again……… Rucy, you have some expraining to do.
Posted by: Venusofomaha | October 25, 2011, 5:37 pm 5:37 pm
The lunacy from the Republican presidential primary candidates is boundless. I don’t care how conservative people are, they can’t take any of these wing-nuts seriously. It seems to be a bid for who can do the most to help the rich. Perry,Cain, Bachmann, Gingrich, Romney, none of them have any serious proposals to help grow jobs. All they propose is gutting middle class jobs so that their wealthy benefactors can receive bigger and bigger tax breaks.
Posted by: findlayway | October 25, 2011, 7:05 pm 7:05 pm
A graduated (or progressive) flat tax with absolutely no deductions is a great idea, but too bad it (flat tax) has become associated with these idiots. Perfect level of 1% tax on anyone earning up to $19,999; 2% from $20,000 up to $49,999; 3% from $50,000 to $99,999; 4% from $100,000 to $249,999; 5% from $250,000 to $999,000; 10% from $1,000,000 to $4,999,999; 20% from $5,000,000 to $49,999,999; 25% from $50,000,000 to $99,999,999; 30% over $100,000,000 and 35% over $250,000,000 and 42% over $350,000,000. NO Exceptions or deductions or excuses. And a sales tax of 2% for any purchase under $5,000; 5% for a purchase over $5,000 and under $10,000; and 10% for any purchase over $10,000 with no exemptions or exceptions.
Posted by: Edward Maloney | October 26, 2011, 5:55 pm 5:55 pm
I like 9-9-9 plan. Growth through investment empowers citizens and makes them less dependent on the government. Growth through consumption bankrupts the citizens and creates a welfare state. We need to get off this consumption-driven madness.
Here’s an example of my family’s 2010 breakdown (we are savers)
- We paid 34% to the government — 24% fed, 6% state, 3% soc sec, 1% medicare
- We spent 16% on ourselves — mortgage, food, clothes, utilities, etc.
- So we saved (only) 50% of our income.
With the 9-9-9 plan,
- We would have paid 15% directly to the government — 9% fed income, 6% sales tax
- We would have spent 18% on ourselves — 16% + a generous 2% hike for the 9% national sales tax
- So we would have saved 67% of our income
So savers can save more. Spenders can reconsider their lifestyle. And may be we won’t need the government to babysit us when we retire.
Posted by: SR | October 26, 2011, 9:22 pm 9:22 pm