Herman Cain, Rick Perry at Michigan Debate: One Flies Above Controversy, the Other Flails Away
EmailROCHESTER, Mich. – With under two months before the first votes are cast in the Republican presidential primary, the GOP candidates gathered for a debate in a state that has suffered gravely during the nation’s economic recession – but what stole the show were the varying fortunes of the two candidates that pose the biggest threat to Mitt Romney’s chances of securing the nomination: Herman Cain and Rick Perry.
While the former has surged in the polls and continues to enjoy support despite new allegations of sexual harassment, the latter has plunged in recent months, even falling outside the top three in polls. Those trends were on full display here at Oakland University as the crowd voiced their strong support for Cain despite the allegations against and sat silently - stunned - as Perry flailed away, unable to name the third federal agency that he said he would eliminate as president.
“It’s three agencies of government when I get there that are gone - Commerce, Education and the um, what’s the third one there?” Perry said. “Let’s see. Oh five – Commerce, Education and the um, um.”
“EPA?” suggested his rival, Rep. Ron Paul, R-Texas.
“EPA, there you go,” replied Perry, before correcting himself.
“No sir,” he said, “we were talking about the agencies of government [that should be cut]. The EPA needs to be rebuilt.”
“But you can’t name the third one?” asked CNBC moderator John Harwood of Perry.
“The third agency of government I would do away with - the Education, the uh, the Commerce and let’s see, I can’t the third one,” Perry admitted. “I can’t.”
The cringe-worthy moment was so bad that the Texas governor then sighed and said simply, “Oops.”
Perry did not let it go there, noting later that the agency that had slipped his mind was the Department of Energy.
While Perry flopped, Cain’s fortunes could not have been more different. Earlier in the debate, when CNBC’s Maria Bartiromo started to ask Cain about the sexual harassment allegations, the crowd at Oakland University booed loudly.
“Mr. Cain, the American people want jobs, but they also want leadership. They want character in a president. In recent days, we have learned that four different women have accused you of inappropriate behavior. Here we’re focusing on character and on judgment,” Bartiromo said, prompting fierce boos from the audience, protesting the question they knew was coming.
“You’ve been a CEO,” she continued. “You know that shareholders are reluctant to hire a CEO where there are character issues. Why should the American people hire a president if they feel there are character issues?”
“The American people deserve better than someone being tried in the court of public opinion based on unfounded accusations,” Cain said to huge cheers from the crowd. “And I value my character and my integrity more than anything else. And for every one person that comes forward with a false accusation, there are probably — there are thousands who would say none of that sort of activity ever came from Herman Cain.”
“This country’s looking for leadership. And this is why a lot of people, despite what has happened over the last nine days, are still very enthusiastic behind my candidacy,” he said. “Over the last nine days, the voters have voted with their dollars, and they are saying they don’t care about the character assassination. They care about leadership and getting this economy growing and all of the other problems we face.”
Since the allegations were first leveled against him late last month, Cain has raised millions of dollars from supporters. While the former Godfather’s Pizza CEO still trails far behind Romney and Perry in the GOP money race, he continues to sit atop the polls less than two months before the first votes are cast in the primary process that starts in Iowa in early January.
According to a USA Today/Gallup survey released earlier this week, Cain and Romney are tied with 21 percent support among Republicans and Republican-leaning independents.
Romney, who was born in Detroit just down the road from the debate site, had to respond to questions about his opposition to the federal bailout for Detroit automakers General Motors and Chrysler. President Obama’s re-election campaign has emphasized Romney’s stance in recent months, saying more than a million jobs were saved by the White House intervention.
“I have seen this industry and I have seen this state go through tough times,” Romney said. “And my view some years ago was that the federal government, by putting in place CAFE requirements that helped foreign automobiles gain market share in the U.S., was hurting Detroit. And so I said, ‘Where is Washington? They are not doing the job they ought to be doing.’ My view with regards to the bailout was that whether it was by President Bush or by President Obama, it was the wrong way to go. I said from the very beginning they should go through a managed bankruptcy process, a private bankruptcy process.”
“My plan - we would have had a private sector bailout with the private sector restructuring and bankruptcy with the private sector guiding the direction as opposed to what we had with government playing its heavy hand,” said the former Massachusetts governor.
Economic issues remain crucial to this state, where the unemployment rate sits above 11 percent, more than 2 percent higher than the national average. The nation’s financial situation remains tenuous as problems in Europe continue to cause concern on Wall Street and Main Street. The Dow Jones Industrial Average today dropped more than 400 points, a plunge that comes amid growing concerns over Italy’s financial crisis.
According to a new Univision/Latino Decisions poll released Tuesday, among all voters nationwide, 74 percent said the most important issue in how they will pick a candidate to support will be jobs and the economy. At the Michigan debate, the ninth thus far, the candidates outlined their proposals to generate economic growth.
“My proposal is the only one that solves the problem by throwing out the current tax code, which has been a mess for decades, and we need to put in something different that I proposed, 9-9-9,” Cain said. “It satisfies five simple criteria. It is simple. The complexity costs us $430 billion a year. It is transparent. People know what it is. There are thousands of hidden sneak-a-taxes in the current tax code. That’s why I want to throw it out. It is fair. The reason it’s fair is because of the definition in Webster, which says everybody gets treated the same. All businesses get treated the same, not having Washington, D.C., pick winners and losers. This is why I have proposed a bold plan of 9-9-9 - 9 percent business flat tax, 9 percent tax on personal income, and a 9 percent national sales tax. It treats everybody the same. And it will boost this economy.”
As the candidates head out of Michigan before their next debate in South Carolina on Saturday night, Cain will do so feeling optimistic that he can overcome the harassment allegations and continue to challenge Romney for the nomination. Perry, meanwhile, may wish that he had followed through on his campaign’s threat to skip some of the debates in the primary’s crowded calendar.
After Perry’s gaffe tonight, Romney’s spokesperson Ryan Williams tweeted simply, “Um, wow.”
Romney senior advisor Eric Ferhnstrom told reporters that there’s “nothing I could say that could darken the night Rick Perry has had.”
Matthew Jaffe is covering the 2012 campaign for ABC News and Univision.
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I agree with Williams, “Um, wow!”. These morons are really the best the GOP has to offer against Obama?!! What a disgrace and embarrassment!
Posted by: DebthePlumber | November 9, 2011, 10:34 pm 10:34 pm
Personally, I think substance is more important than style. Perry has a proven record. He knows what it takes to create JOBS!!
And why the double standard? When Cain had absolutely NO ANSWER in his “debate” with Gingrich (he actually requested that Newt answer the question!!), that apparently was no big deal.
Posted by: Angela Toft | November 9, 2011, 10:35 pm 10:35 pm
Substance is what is lacking in all the Candidates. Cain and Gingrich have the same yuck factor with women in addition to their platitude answers. Cains, three reasons to repeal Dodd Frank being 2 and 3 Dodd and Frank is just an embarrassment yet the crowd cheered.
Here is the housing answer. Devalue all loans for single family homes to the 1965 Market Value. Then we may be at some reasonable valuation.
Then the jobs Perry can make mostly government bailout funded minimum wage jobs can run the economy. People will be able to afford to work for Perry Economic Jobs.
As far as Bachman’s everyone should pay taxes… well it would be nice to have an income in order to pay taxes. Just ask the folks who cant find jobs.
How about a National Economic Refugee program where there is relocation effort to help put people where the jobs are. This program would require that there is housing where there are jobs.
Regulations after 2008 or Obama Regulations did not cause the problem, nor are they holding back recovery. How about the Bush Tax Cuts, and Bush Unfunded Wars, and Bush unfunded Drug Plan… Let’s reverse these, as being the root of the problem. In addition re instate the Financial Regulations of the Glass Segal Act in addition to the Barney Frank bill. Cut up the banks, and lower the value of houses. YES old people and speculators will have to take a bite on their income. It is either that or their grand children will not be able to eat even at a homeless shelter.
Posted by: NotImpressed Here | November 9, 2011, 10:57 pm 10:57 pm
I watched “Mission Impossible” tonight; kind of ironic, the Impossible team accomplishes the impossible while these idiots can’t get through a debate without injuring themselves. Cain can collect campaign contributions and try to rise above the fray, but the bottom line is there are lingering questions that have soiled his integrity and a lot of Americans are not convinced about his innocence. Like many abusers; he’s eager to blame the victims.
Posted by: Karmamaster1 | November 9, 2011, 11:21 pm 11:21 pm
Angela Toft ? “He knows what it takes to create jobs”?? Oh, that’s right, all those private sector minimum wage jobs. When was the last time you were able to make your house payment on $7.25 per hour. The only reason Perry is being pushed is because he’s dumber than Bush, (I really never would have thought that would be possible), which would give big oil and wall street another puppet in the white house. Perry has soundly proven to America he has a real problem keeping his composure under stress. I for one would be scared to death to have this man anywhere near the red button.
Posted by: dan | November 10, 2011, 12:04 am 12:04 am
who cares?
Posted by: asfqw | November 10, 2011, 1:20 am 1:20 am
Here is the housing answer. Devalue all loans for single family homes to the 1965 Market Value. Then we may be at some reasonable valuation.
Posted by: asfgw | November 10, 2011, 1:21 am 1:21 am
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Posted by: sacvs | November 10, 2011, 1:36 am 1:36 am
I would really like to see each candidate get equal time. If only Ron Paul looked more presidential, this race would be over. If any Republican votes for Perry after this debate they deserve to loose to Obama. The answer to the housing crisis is to leave it alone. Throw in another buyer rebate in 2012 and you all will be amazed how fast the market will recover! Housing is down because people are losing jobs, so create jobs and grow the economy.
Unless we drastically reduce spending our country will be in big trouble. I hope that RP can stay in the race long enough for America to get his message. I think Romney will make a good VP, but doubt he cares enough about the country to take the job. Paul/Romney would be a winning ticket in my book. Good luck and God Bless.
Posted by: DParis | November 10, 2011, 2:01 am 2:01 am
Cain did answer that question on defined benefit plans in the debate with Gingrich. He asked that Newt go first. And yes, Obama regulations are holding back the recovery. Business is still not certain how the health care plan will affect them, many are still asking for waivers. They are not going to invest in new equipment, expand or hire new employees when their future expenses are an unknown. Sales are down because so many aren’t working. The Frank/Dodd bill is especially hard on smaller banks. This administration & EPA has been closing coal mines, refineries, off shore oil drilling, concrete plants, choking the trucking industry and continue to spend at unprecedented rates. Bush’s deficit was only 160 Billion as recently as year 2006, even with the wars, tax breaks and prescription program. Obama is on track to spend 5 TRILLION in 3 years. Unemployment is not declining, housing is not recovering, the middle east is having a meltdown and this administration is busy fronting loans to green companies without good financial prospects and providing guns to Mexican cartels. Any of the Republican candidates would be an improvement!
Posted by: Gary | November 10, 2011, 3:44 am 3:44 am
It still boils down to ELECT ABILITY. You can win a primary and still lose a national election. All these candidates are weak.
Posted by: Indymind | November 10, 2011, 6:55 am 6:55 am
Too bad Stephonopolus wasn’t there to help correct him and hold his hand when Obama said his muslim faith.
Posted by: angie | November 10, 2011, 7:34 am 7:34 am
Hollywood could not have come up with a bigger bunch of idiots seeking to be President than this bum. The crew at SNL looks more presidential than this circus act. And the audacity for this bunch to claim they have answers to today’s problems. One a groper, one a nutjob, one a revolving door wife guy, one a cult guy, and one guy who should have retired a long time ago. The only guy that seems, and I say seems plausible is this guy Huntsmen, but who knows.
Posted by: jake | November 10, 2011, 8:09 am 8:09 am
You staunch Democrats are a riot when you say how incompetent these guys are while the inexperienced President watches our economy slip into a double dip because of his policies. BTW, if not for Newts background, Newt would win the nomination and absolutely blow Obama out of the water in any and all debates. Romney will win it and he will attack Obama’s policies as compared to the state of the economy and unemployment to which Obama will have no answers. Obama is a rookie and they will exploit his inexperience.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | November 10, 2011, 8:10 am 8:10 am
jake | November 10, 2011, 8:09 am —- Spoken like a true partisan hack! “”"”"And the audacity for this bunch to claim they have answers to today’s problems.”"”"”" It’s quite obvious the inexperienced idiot you elected to office doesn’t have answers. Admit your mistake already.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | November 10, 2011, 8:16 am 8:16 am
It is truly astounding that Cain remains high in the polls. Republican voters have their heads in the sand. There is no way that Cain can become president. No women will vote for him. Perry is truly a joke and Romney can’t even keep on one message without flip-flopping. I know people don’t particularly want Obama after 3 years of misery. So – where is America’s next true presidential leader? Who knows?
Posted by: Bob | November 10, 2011, 8:18 am 8:18 am
Wow!
All hat no cowboy! Eliminating 3 government agencies that he cannot even name? Who do we have left now? Shady, insulting, no experience Cain and flip-flopping nay-sayer Romney. Oh boy!
Barrack Obama just got one step closer to 2012 victory.
Posted by: alkast69 | November 10, 2011, 8:21 am 8:21 am
Bob and alkast69 —- Obama proves you don’t need a leader in the WH, but Obama was voted in with practically zero experience in government and politics! 75% of the GOP candidates have more experience than Obama has even if you add in his Presidency time. What did Obama say we should do if he hasn’t turned this around within 3 years? Do I need to remind you? BTW, I am a realist and wish Newt could get the nomination, but 60% of Americans are completely stupid and can’t see through his private life to understand Newt needs to beour next President. I find it comical how Clinton can cheat in the actual Oval office and keep his job, but Newt had to step down due to his private life. 60% of Americans are stupid and 75% of them are politically stupid.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | November 10, 2011, 8:33 am 8:33 am
There are lots of people out there who do not care about the quality of the repug candidates, their only goal is to defeat Obama. They could care less about the country.
Posted by: raggmopp | November 10, 2011, 8:36 am 8:36 am
raggmopp | November 10, 2011, 8:36 am —— Uh, what do you think the Democrats goal was when Bush was President? It is always the goal of the party in the minority to oust the party of the majority, or did you not know this? Common political knowledge.
Posted by: commonsenseparty | November 10, 2011, 8:43 am 8:43 am
The media are truly amusing.
Perry’s “gaffe” was simply a temporary loss of memory, for a word…….something everyone over 50 has happen to them, on a regular basis.
Get real, people.
Posted by: Rick McDaniel | November 10, 2011, 9:11 am 9:11 am
You staunch Democrats are a riot when you say how incompetent these guys are while the inexperienced President watches our economy slip into a double dip because of his policies. Posted by: commonsenseparty | November 10, 2011, 8:10 am.
Be specific. What exactly has Obama signed into law that is causing a double dip recession? Give us the laws and their actual impact on this country, please.
Posted by: Searambler | November 10, 2011, 9:13 am 9:13 am
Please….Rick “Sarah Palin” Perry sounds dumn and dummer!!
Posted by: angeline tetteris | November 10, 2011, 9:31 am 9:31 am
commonsense – not to the extent that the repugs are doing it now. The repugs will not even pass a jobs bill to put people to work, rebuild the infrastructure and increase tax revenues. Only because it was submitted by the dems/Obama. If this had been submitted by the GOP, you would see it passed very quickly.
The repugs are all about power. They do not care for the little guys like us. Worse yet, the country suffers because the repugs are too narrow minded. The repugs are too h3ll bent on reducing taxes on the wealthy and increasing taxes on the middle and lower classes.
Yes it is common political knowledge that the parties are antagonistic. But the antagonism being displayed by the repugs is above and beyond anything that has happened in the past.
Who was it, McConnell? That stated the main goal is to make Obama a 1 term POTUS. It’s not about the country, it’s about selfishness.
Posted by: raggmopp | November 10, 2011, 9:39 am 9:39 am
The whole circus ring of GOP candidates are pathetic, but Perry evokes pity. Herman Cain makes me cringe. Most voters in this country are moderates; slightly left or right of center – we’re not voting for dim bulbs who do nothing but spout ideas to drag the country back 200 years.
Posted by: green.goddess | November 10, 2011, 9:42 am 9:42 am
Good lord………..every debate is worse than the previous. How is this possible? The GOP is making a mockery of our electoral system. First out of pure blind anger/hatred they go and elect to congress people like Joe Walsh in the 2010 elections and now they parade before America a bunch that cant even stick to the GOP talking points when asked the easiest of questions. Gingrich response on the economy was classic meaningless mis-direction designed to incite the brainless mass sitting before him when he equated the economy – liberal media – wallstreet protests – to chase morgan paying for the parks they occupy. This is beyond embrassing.
Posted by: ckagmd | November 10, 2011, 10:40 am 10:40 am
I haven’t decided on the candidate I will support, but I do know that when Rick Perry paused and could not think of the third program he would cut I immediately knew EVERYONE would jump on his mistake and run him in the ground for it. Every time he spoke the media was HOPING he would make a mistake. After all, if he does well in debates he could be on top again if everyone started looking at what he can DO instead of how smooth he is with words. He did pretty well in this debate up until he forgot a word under stress – FORGOT A WORD – what a trivial thing to rake the guy over the coals for and declare his campaign is over!! But the things he said that held value were immediately forgotten and he is branded “stupid, dumb, etc”. These debates are not what he would be doing as President, everyone seems to be forgetting that. I would much prefer a president that was real and makes mistakes like you and I do (I have forgot a word, drew a blank when I had too much on my mind……HAVE YOU??) Seems Americans would relate and see themselves up there and know it could happen to them or anyone else……. Rather than what we’ve got, a president that talks smooth with the help of his teleprompter and we can’t belive a word he says. Funny how the media never jumps all over Obama’s gaffes……the “breathalizer” gaffe and all the “ummm…ahhhh’s”……and other problems he’s had in speeches where there was no competition and he wasn’t being grilled and judged. How shallow we are as a nation to through someone under the bus over something this simple that has happened to us all at one time or another. Very amazing what people will trash others for, when forgetting a word doesn’t mean you are dumb, especially when he does have a good plan for what really MATTERS.
Newt is very impressive and knows so much about all the issues and definately has the experience. I for one am a woman, and I could care LESS about his personal life with women in years past. I care about my country NOW. I also cared about my country when America did not find Obama “unelectable” because of his shady ties with people that do not love this country. Associating with those types of people apparently is ACCEPTABLE by the American people, but forget a word????? Oh my, that is unforgivable. Get real.
Posted by: JAMH | November 10, 2011, 11:11 am 11:11 am
Here’s the bottom line. I, and most of the real world, don’t care if Perry says something wrong, or Cain is accused by a couple of lunatics, or whatever the final GOP Presidential Candidate does or says, THEY WILL BEAT OBAMA, without question. Live with it, we’ve had to live with a moron for president for the last three years.
Posted by: Dandydon | November 10, 2011, 12:53 pm 12:53 pm
I’m not a fan of Perry, but the media bias grows tiresome. Was it splashed all over the media to this degree when our current president made reference to “all 57 states” during his campaign? I watch CNBC every day and Harwood’s liberal bias always shows thru in his reporting. He knew Perry had lost his train of thought, and rather than give him a moment to regain composure, he went in for the kill…”you really can’t name 3?”. Does anyone remember candidate Obama being put on the spot with “do you really not know how many states are in this country?” I don’t.
Posted by: jim | November 10, 2011, 11:00 pm 11:00 pm