Obama and Boehner Not Far Apart on Fiscal Cliff? Not Really
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Carolyn Kaster/AP Photo; Pablo Martinez Monsivais/AP Photo
There are some in Washington and around Capitol Hill who keep saying that House Speaker John Boehner and President Obama really aren’t that far apart on the “fiscal cliff” and there will be a deal despite Boehner’s proposal to hold a vote on his “Plan B.”
Let’s deconstruct the two parts of that thinking.
Boehner and Obama really aren’t that far apart?
Not really.
The differences are more significant than just tax rates. Republicans say the Democratic offer is really $800 billion in spending cuts and $1.3 trillion in tax increases. That is because the inflation adjustment applies to tax rates* as well as Social Security — resulting in less than $100 billion in added tax revenues.
Democrats count that as a spending cut. Republicans say that is a tax hike. So the real difference, from their perspective, is $450 billion. The $400,000 vs. $1 million threshold for tax rates hikes is just one part of this. Republicans want more spending cuts and fewer tax increases.
Related: Read More About the Fiscal Cliff
Obama and Senate Democrats are fond of saying they are this close (fingers close together). They say Boehner should just accept the president’s offer.
But, as I asked Senate Majority Leader Harry Reid, D-Nev., earlier today: If you are this close why not just accept Boehner’s offer? He dodged, saying that Boehner’s offer wasn’t really an offer and likened him to Lucy and the football — you’ll recall the routine in which the “Peanuts” character would pull away the ball at the last second and leave Charlie Brown kicking at nothing but air.
Both sides like to talk about Lucy and the football, but that is another story. Will there be a deal?
They should be able to do a deal. I know where the deal should be. So do you. But, really, they aren’t quite as close as the nifty charts like this one from the Washington Post suggest. And this is about much more than the $400,000 tax-rate threshold.
*By lowering the government’s calculation for inflation, the income level for the top rates would rise at a slower rate, putting more and more people into the top rates.
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$800 billion in spending cuts and $1.3 trillion in tax increases”…over ten years. Yet over the next four years we will add $4 trillion in new debt taking us to over $20 trillion. $200,000 for each and every household.–We get the governement we vote for.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 5:38 pm 5:38 pm
We get the governement we vote for.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 5:38 pm 5:38 pm
Thank God the Bush debacle is over – the Republicans sure loved debt then.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 5:43 pm 5:43 pm
And now you love debt John?
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm
Dec. 19, 2012 Whitehouse Press Conference – President Obama “This is not some Washington commission. This is not something where folks are going to be studying the issue for six months and publishing a report that gets read and then pushed aside.”
This is from the man who wants MORE of our money to go to Washington. He is admitting that Washington is wasteful and inefficient.
Make them get their act together before they commit us to another $20 trillion in debt.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 6:03 pm 6:03 pm
Thank God the Bush debacle is over – the Republicans sure loved debt then.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 5:43 pm 5:43 pm
And now you love debt John?
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 5:57 pm 5:57 pm
No, now I think all the posturing by the Republicans is hypocritical and I wish they hadn’t had the Cheney philosophy that ‘deficits don’t matter’ that started the plunge into huge debt.
Then, after their economy collapsed, we were in a real mess – with greatly reduced revenues from taxes and many more people suffering loss of employment, their homes, their businesses, their savings, etc.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm
I totally agree with the theme of this article! We really need everyone in the public on both sides to resist the urge to dig-in and realize that we are close to a solid old-fashioned compromise! Kudos to ABC for great reporting of the truth. All Americans get hurt when the media continuously highlights differences and pushes a wedge in the way of a good deal. What we have here is a win for BOTH sides. Moderates (the vast majority of Americans), we need to speak up and push this deal to completion!
Posted by: fredrick83920 | December 20, 2012, 6:15 pm 6:15 pm
What is hypocritical is the fact that Democrats were along for the ride the whole time (sometimes driving) and never voted against any spending yet you put the blame all at the feet of the Republicans.
I know.. “Clinton had a budget surplus”… when the Republican controlled House limited government spending.
I wouldn’t mind repeating those years, but it is Obama that won’t work with the opposition like President Clinton did.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 6:20 pm 6:20 pm
First of all it is about time the media tells the American people the truth that Obama is full of it when it comes to his rhetoric about trying to save the tax rate for the middle class. The president has the authority to instruct the U.S. Treasury to freeze withholding rates while the sides continue to negotiate. The Congressional Budget Office confirms it. So, don’t be a scrooge, Mr. President.
Posted by: Jake | December 20, 2012, 6:33 pm 6:33 pm
“And now you love debt John?”———Obama takes debt to a whole nother level!
Posted by: dem_without_a_clue | December 20, 2012, 6:43 pm 6:43 pm
I know.. “Clinton had a budget surplus”… when the Republican controlled House limited government spending.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 6:20 pm 6:20 pm
Please, Republican majority House and Senate and Republican Bush as president as the budget headed from the ‘”Clinton surpluses” to the doubled national debt. Cheney chiming in that ‘deficits don’t matter’. Take some responsibility.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 6:45 pm 6:45 pm
TO THE PEOPLE IN BOTH PARTIES WHOSE VISION IS CLOUDED BY PARTY LINES-
ELEPHANTS- The speakers “plan b” has been quietly reported by multiple media outlets to actually raise taxes on the middle class by eliminating deductions. Coming down from no tax increase to increases on over a million is conceding a little, but not much. Also, if you want to cut government spending, cut from defense and your own benefit pool. Leave the programs in place that actually help people. Stop giving out corporate welfare.
Donkeys- Spending HAS TO BE CUT. Even if we raise taxes on everyone, we still need to cut the budget. Raising the SS tax income level will help, but we need to make SS separate again and not your own personal piggy bank. You want a balanced budget? Make all entitlement money taxable with the exception of seniors over 65. Put a 2 year eligibility cap in a 15 year span for unemployment AND welfare. No more generations milking the system.
There are fixes for anything, but its going to take some common sense and some balls. Question is who has them?
Posted by: spitfire18213 | December 20, 2012, 6:49 pm 6:49 pm
There is only one way to get this resolved and that is suspend all Washington paychecks until this issue is put to bed. I am tired of hearing Pres. Obama blaming the Republicans and House speaker Boehner blaming the President. What we have here is clueless versus wit-less. In the end, in 20 years, when the new history books are released, they will not record who did what, regardless of who is at fault, they will only record “President Obama……fiscal cliff…..epic fail.” Geez, get on with it!
Posted by: Deborah | December 20, 2012, 6:53 pm 6:53 pm
John- We did have a little thing called the September 11th attacks that reminded us all that spending on defense does matter. I don’t remember any Democrats (who authorized Iraq) calling for cuts to HeadStart to help up-armor the un-armored Humvees that were bought during Clinton’s term.
By the way, after the rearming of the our military, Bush’s deficit were going down on a glide path towards balance. Obama’s budgets forsee deficits in the trillions after he is long gone. Also Obama’s deficits have been lower thanks to the repayment, with interest, of the TARP funds.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 7:06 pm 7:06 pm
I do not think they are’close’ at all for one reason. There is no way the far tea party right is going to vote for ‘anything’ if a raise in taxes is involved. And the moderates in the GOP are too chicken**** to vote for it either…because of Norquist. And worst of all, for the nation, I don’t think any of them have a clue what this obstibnacy and fear…will do to the nation. And ultimately what will happen to their own Party. That is what extremism does to the brain…it incapacitates it from reality. And that is true in politics…as it is with religion.
Posted by: CND FOX | December 20, 2012, 7:09 pm 7:09 pm
Why can’t we just shut down the federal government?! That would solve everything.
Posted by: You know who you are... | December 20, 2012, 7:30 pm 7:30 pm
Obama’s budgets forsee deficits in the trillions after he is long gone.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 7:06 pm 7:06 pm
No they don’t. In fact Obama’s submitted budget for 2013 was under a trillion dollars.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 7:35 pm 7:35 pm
Whether my tax rate is raised or not will have NO influence on my investments. I will continue to invest in American businesses. When all of the chicken little’s start selling off their stock causing their share values to fall, I’ll buy their stock on the low end, just like last year. And when they ALL come back to the market I’ll sell them the stock back for a tidy profit, just like last year. Please… keep panicking, it only helps me. I hope I have to pay a lot in taxes because it means I had a GOOD year. It’s ridiculous that I pay so little in taxes on the income that my money earns while I sit on my A$$ET$ while those that WORK to earn their keep pay substantially more. It just isn’t right and I hope the government does something to reverse the last 20 years of upward wealth distribution (via tax code that HEAVILY favors the wealthy).
Posted by: ScroogeYou | December 20, 2012, 7:40 pm 7:40 pm
No they don’t. In fact the deficit in Obama’s submitted budget for 2013 was under a trillion dollars.
Gee-You think it will clear the Senate, like his last four?
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 7:48 pm 7:48 pm
No they don’t. In fact the deficit in Obama’s submitted budget for 2013 was under a trillion dollars.
Gee-You think it will clear the Senate, like his last four?
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 7:48 pm 7:48 pm
Not with the Republicans playing the divisive, obstructionist games they’ve been playing in both the Senate and the House. The good thing is their tactic failed. They failed in their stated goal to ensure Obama was only a one-term president. The Republicans are failures.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 7:53 pm 7:53 pm
As AMERICAN, WE, the PEOPLE OF UNITED STATES OF AMERICA need new constitution to LIMITING CONGRESS TERMS Similar to PRESIDENTIAL TERM. (Max 8 years). OUR CONGRESS have been in office WAY TOO LONG. What do American citizen thoughts on it?
Posted by: screenworld | December 20, 2012, 7:55 pm 7:55 pm
Screenworld…You are sooo right. Everyone else should be out of Congress and only the Tea Party members elected in 2010 should still be there.
BTW John – Just keep blaming Bush and the Republicans. It seems to be working. Obama will never have to take responsibilty as long as he has kool-aid.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 8:01 pm 8:01 pm
John-”Not with the Republicans playing the divisive, obstructionist games” – Yeah it was the Senate Republicans that voted 99-0 against Obama’s budget.
Posted by: ionagoal | December 20, 2012, 8:10 pm 8:10 pm
Then, after their economy collapsed, we were in a real mess – with greatly reduced revenues from taxes and many more people suffering loss of employment, their homes, their businesses, their savings, etc.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 6:07 pm 6:07 pm
Hey John! You still blaming BUSH? The collapse had nothing to do with BUSH, but had everything to do with the Housing Market crashing because people overborrowed beyond their means! Things were pretty good economically before the Dem’s took Congress in 2006! You can’t sell that false narrative anymore!
Posted by: theeightiesruled1 | December 20, 2012, 8:29 pm 8:29 pm
No they don’t. In fact Obama’s submitted budget for 2013 was under a trillion dollars.
Posted by: John | December 20, 2012, 7:35 pm 7:35 pm
AND IT WAS VOTED DOWN BY EVERY VOTE! EVEN DEM’S! IT TOOK HIM 3 YEARS TO FIND THE TIME TO PUT TOGETHER A BUDGET! IF THIS MAN WAS RUNNING ANYTHING ELSE HE WOULD HAVE BEEN FIRED YEARS AGO! So BLIND! And now our young WILL PAY for this guy’s ineptness for many year’s to come!
Posted by: theeightiesruled1 | December 20, 2012, 8:33 pm 8:33 pm
NO VOTE: Bye Bye Boehner… The Tea Party rules the GOP. What a horror for the United States. The multi- millionaires rule with a golden but bloody scepter. The republicans will take the blame for going over the cliff. It’s time they understand Obama won the election!!!!!!!! The GOP says to the hard working middle class “drop dead”.
Posted by: L.Sanfod | December 20, 2012, 8:43 pm 8:43 pm
If these politicians don’t get over there ego’s and find a way to try and get this economy back on track, we can all hang it up. I could take the money the spend on looking into (a commission) each other and save millions a month. I wish we could oust this government from the president on down, and have common everyday people, that know what it is to live on a budget, run the US. I would use common sense and not take vacations, and instead of threatening to take military pay when the budget is bad, how about they do without pay until they come to an agreement. It will not hurt them like it does the military and other federal workers. Life is pretty simple, you have to work for what you get, nothing is free, someone is paying for your ride. What is wrong with the men, and women, of today.
Posted by: t | December 20, 2012, 8:54 pm 8:54 pm
*their*
Posted by: t | December 20, 2012, 8:55 pm 8:55 pm
The fact of the matter is Obama has all the power after winning the election and the GOP does not.
Posted by: Joe Petitjean | December 21, 2012, 12:02 am 12:02 am
Well the article is a tat off on the characters now. It’s no longer the Speaker and Obama who are just this far apart. Obama and Harry Reid are now negotiating with the GOP House majority. The ball is in their court. Let Sen. Reid pass a bill that in his wordscan “pass the congress and be signed by the President.” They may miss Speaker Boehner. Because I have a feeling that going over the cliff holds no particular terrors for their new negotiating partners.
Posted by: George | December 21, 2012, 4:15 am 4:15 am
I’ve said at least 20 times that the President negotiating with John Boehner is a total waste of time.
Boehner is the most useless, weakest Speaker of the House in history. We’ve lost the Legislative Branch of our government. It no longer exists, pretending it does is delusional.
The republicans wanted smaller government, now they have it; they’ve made it smaller by 1/3. We all (republicans and democrats will suffer)
Posted by: tmferretti | December 21, 2012, 8:50 am 8:50 am
tmferretti wrote:”We’ve lost the Legislative Branch of our government. It no longer exists, pretending it does is delusional. ”
.
Looks like the legislative branch is the only one listening to their constituents who sent them to office to stop the out of control spending of oBama. You would just prefer that oBama was a dictator.
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | December 21, 2012, 9:24 am 9:24 am
MICHELLE
The American people already know Congress is useless, that’s why they have an 8% approval rating.
You are delusional if you think these Congressmen are listening to the American people who are going to have to pay more taxes on Jan 1 because the republicans think the millionares are doing so poorly they need one also.
Congress doesn’t reside in Washington anymore, it resides in corporate board rooms, offices on K-Street and in the hands of idiots like Grover Norquist.
The republicans need to use a cigarette butt to burn off these tea party republicans from the body of their party. If they won’t, the American people will do it for them in November 2014.
Posted by: tmferretti | December 21, 2012, 9:52 am 9:52 am
tmferretti wrote:”The American people already know Congress is useless, that’s why they have an 8% approval rating.”
.
Well, the Senate side is for sure. Harry Reid says “he’s not going to do anything”. All the legislation sent by the House to the Senate has been bottled up. Harry is doing exactly what oBama wants him to do. Boehner offer up a plan to raise taxes on only millionaires but Pelosi and the DEM’s got exposed for the frauds they are and would not vote for it. In the end their goal is to raise taxes on EVERYBODY!
Posted by: Michelle Shu Jas | December 21, 2012, 11:02 am 11:02 am