The Fate of the Gray Wolf

Unfortunately, we humans have gotten used to “taking dominion” over the land. We’ve only recently realized that we’ve taken so much dominion that we’re about to run out of resources. We moved into the wolves’ territory (and the territories of a lot of other animals) and now, we consider them to be pests. The truth be known, we are the pests. We’ve interrupted and broken food chains and disrupted whole ecologies. We still don’t have a handle on the effect we’ve had on the “big picture.” The whole planetary ecological system is being disrupted because of our rapacious ways. I hope we can learn quickly enough to stave off disaster.

1,500 doesn’t sound like that many. This on the heels of the story that the governemnt had done the research and finished the report making ready the polar bear’s move to threatened/endangered status but our government held off until they could get some oil drilling legislation in place. They knew that if the polar bear became protected first, they couldn’t let their friends drill in the bears’ habitat. Republicans are unbelievable. Well, unfortunately, I CAN believe it.

this is outrageous. 1500 is not enough for a successful reproductive population. Next Bush will be organizing Florida Panther hunts and Manatee roasts.

I say let the rancher hunt them. Only on the wolf’s terms. No guns. Claws and fangs only. Fair’s fair.

hunt wolves at your own risk

I cant beleive this mess! how dare we shoot something that deserves to be here just as much as we do. hello they were here first. i know and understand that there is an issue because of farming and ranching, but you know what you knew that moving to the mountanous states where you live you would encounter problems like this. did you not? now everyone wants to hunt & shoot them. not to mention people are hunting and shooting with high powered rifles… oh thats real fair. how stupid! i agree fangs and claws all the way. things like this make me question my americanism…. how sad for this animal, to be protected and now to be klled off again. all we can do is pray.

pencil head bureaucrats have failed to educate ranchers and farmers of the threats wolves poses to livestocks. They have failed to prove that wolves don’t threaten the livelihoods of ranchers and farmers. People’s livelihoods are more important than wolves.

I think that this is very bad for our country, if our wolfs are going to be hunted then what will happen if they get hunted again? We just hurt our country so much and don’t care, like global warming.

Shina
Urban or suburban neighborhood?

For those of you who don’t live where the wolves do – think about this little nugget. They say 1500 wolves, however, they really don’t know how many there are. This is only an estimate and it is conservative at best. The last know originally released breeding pair of wolves died this last year at about 12 years old. If those wolves had just one litter of 8 pups a year for twelve years, and only half lived to breeding age, you would be talking about more than 100 breeding pairs in a very short amount of time and that is just one pair. How many canines (aka dogs)living in pampered homes live that long??? These are very resilient, dangerous, smart, adaptive, and prolific predators that have dramatically impacted several large game populations in a short amount of time. We no longer live in a “natural” wild land, and we have been managing wildlife populations for the last century. Letting the wolf population explode without parameters to protect other wildlife populations and human will not be a pretty sight. populations. On your next camping trip to areas with wolves, remember to keep your pets and children close to you at all times – wolves think of them as tasty little snacks! Really not kidding, there are already documented cases of pets being taken right in front of their owners.

Sorry about the spelling. I can’t see the text in the comments box so well.

henry
From what I just read it was the Elk that became a problem when the wolves were killed and the main reason for bringing them back. Here they want the Timber wolf population to grow because of an over population of white tail deer. If they would simply throw away the endangered list and just not allow hunting there would not be any of these problems. It comes on your property and is a danger you kill it, otherwise you let it be. The natives seem to have got a long just fine that way 500 years ago.

If wildlife is a problem for those selfish people then they first need to educate themself not to have too many kids. Second, they should not move or build homes in the wild. I wonder if they know they invate the animal land? Just put the situation in reverse…Do you feel the pain of these animals? What right does anyone have to go gun down any life? Why animal lives are so worthless compared to humans”???? This is a human’s world of selfishness and distruction.

First of all, 1,500 wolves is not that many for such a large area. Genetic diversity within a population needs to be maintain, and it is better maintained with larger population numbers. Wolves are beautiful creatures that deserve to live undisturbed in the wild with as little human interference as possible. Secondly, the wolves are apex predators. This means that they have NO NATURAL PREDATORS and never have. Humans are the wolves only predators. With an apex predator, the populations will work themselves out. If they become overpopulated, they starve for the lack of prey. This has happened in other apex predators like the orca, great white shark and African lions. As for the comment that the ranchers need to protect their stocks. The wolves would only eat the cows that were sick or weak, and the ranchers can get monetary compensation for the cows that die from the wolves. If anything, the ranchers only gain from the wolf predation because they only eat the animals that were sick or dieing anyway. Also, under normals situations, the wolves would only prey on livestock if they could not find natural prey to eat. Wolves only kill what they need to survive and will never kill more than one animal just for “sport”. As for the human attacks. There has NEVER been a documented wolf attack on a human. The wolves would rather run than attack a human. The only exceptions are if the wolf is cornered, their young are threatened, or they are extremely sick. The fear of wolves is just a stereotype that has been passed down from generation to generation, like the fear of snakes and sharks. Please do us all a favor and do some research before you post unsupported information.

JOCK59801: The ranches are in wolf country, not the other way around. This so-called “management” program allows for more than half the existing wolf population to be killed, often employing ARIAL HUNTS – a disgusting practice still extensively employed in the lower 48 and Alaska, and which ought to be outlawed. I called the US Fish & Wildlife Service last night to make my opposition known, and will be
donating to wildlife defense efforts in the weeks ahead. Bush/Cheney will not be happy until they’ve eliminated every wild and beautiful thing and paved the entire country.

I always find it interesting how people who live in cities can love a creature that decimates entire elk herds. For the “they were here first” crowd. The gray wolf was never a primary predator in the inland northwest until they were ‘re-introduced’ at a cost of millions of dollars. These are dogs, they breed quickly. As soon as one pack reaches around 12-15, they break off and start a new pack. One pack needs nearly 50 sq. miles to remain healthy. Packs can double and split within ten years. As canines, they WILL kill for sport and are doing so now within Yellowstone Park. While their re-introduction to the park was beneficial to cull out the Elk herd and expand the Bison, their numbers have grown to proportions that the park itself cannot sustain. They will travel literally miles to find prey. And for the ‘they won’t attack livestock unless they are starving’ crowd. You may want to visit Wyoming, Montana and Idaho before you make such wholly incorrect statements. Cattle make for nice prey because they are slow when compared to a healthy elk.

Bill – The truth is usually in between somewhere. Wolves do not decimate entire elk herds. The elk populations in and around Yellowstone are doing just fine. Some wolves attack livestock and others don’t. It seems to vary by pack. That is one reason wolves need to managed on a case by case basis.
And of course wolves were once a primary predator in the inland northwest; but then they were a primary predator where the city-dwellers live too, so nobody should be talking about kicking anyone else off their land.

Holly
Never been to L.A. huh?

jock59801
And those farmers should be allowed to protect and defend their property – not the same as going out on a hunt. Like I siad before, keep dogs and predators tend to keep their distance – why else would we have domesticated the dog in the first place? Of course a handy 30-06 helps too.

Quietman: I have traveled extensively, but no, I have never been to LA but would like to visit some day. Native Americans didn’t need an endangered species list, perhaps, but certain newcomers drove the wolf population (as well as the bison and other animals) to the brink of extinction with over-zealous hunting, trapping, etc. It happened once, so it is fair to assume that, without the protection an endangered species list affords threatened animals, it could happen again. I simply like a world with wild creatures in it- what is so wrong with that?

I go to Hawaii and scuba diving there every year just to see the sea turtles and other lives. I really love and appreciate wild life. Human are selfish, destructive, and idiot for almost everything.
What right did the we have to decide on animal population control? I say human population control is long over due for a limit. Stop invation into the wild and leave some land for other lives. The earth is a place to share and it doesn’t matter if it were not a human!

Quietman & jock59801
Your comments are interesting to me. Please allow me to provide information that most Americans don’t know or forget soon after they pass that test in high school.
You’re right in that the Spaniards brought horses to North America. Until that time we had no equine animals at all. The term “Indian pony” refers to an unshod horse, usually a stocky mustang, descendants of the animals brought by the Spaniards. There were domesticated dogs used as beasts of burden, guards and when necessary, food. (It’s kind of stringy.)
We still respect the wolf we call “Waya”. I am Uni-Waya, Wolf clan or one of the wolf family. One of seven clans of the Cherokee. Most Indians today have taken the ways of the Whites and know little of the old ways. Those of us who still hold the old ways (as much as is practical) respect all nature. We will kill the wolf when necessary to defend ourselves or our stock. We will kill deer, squirrel and anything else we need.
We will not kill that which we do not need to kill. We will not kill a wolf just because he is a wolf. We won’t kill a deer just for the trophy. Killing is sometimes necessary but it is wrong to kill just to kill. I fear that some people kill wolves like they kill coyote. Just because it’s there.

Umm…yes, there are only approximately 1500 gray wolves in the northern Rockies; however, there are over 350,00 gray wolves in a range extending roughly from Canada, through Alaska, into Siberia and Eastern Europe. Same species,(Canis lupus)hardly “endangered”.

jijalagi
Thank you, I always wondered where the ponies came from. You are right about the young ones. My daughter-in-law is part Cherokee and knows some of the history but almost nothing of the customs. Her family lives not far from the end of the trail of tears.

Yes, they pair for life, and the other members of the pack are usually related to the alpha pair, but not always. The genealogies and pack status of all the wolves in Yellowstone have been closely followed since the introduction.

Shaking my head in disbelief at how people can get so wrapped up in petty self indulgence. Honestly like Holly wouldn’t be screaming murder if we started doing human population control!
Back to the wolf topic – You are correct that there is no documented case of wolves attacking humans in the lower 48, but there are documented cases of them attacking and killing dogs walking with humans in my own backyard (refering to Idaho). And personally having stood face to face with a wolf that has shown no fear of humans – the comment of “they run from humans” holds no validity in my mind. It is a scary situation to have 125lb wild animal with -as previously stated- no natural enemies stare at you in the middle of a hiking trail before it decides “I’m not that hungry, it probably tastes gross anyway”. They do not have a healthy fear of humans currently because WE don’t hunt them! Once they do run out of natural prey, who is to say they won’t eat someones unattended child? Or is that Holly’s idea of population control???

I don’t know how long the Alpha pair is mated. I assume until one dies but I really don’t know
If your daughter-in-law is interested in learning about her heritage it can be done. We still hold our dances every third weekend, other ceremonial grounds have different weekends. We dance all winter, others only in the summer. There is a dance every weekend somewhere in Oklahoma in the summer. Cherokee, Creek, Seminole, Choctaw, Euchie… All the eastern tribes dance together now.

Informed Citizen: I never said anything about population control in human beings, and I am neither petty nor self-indulgent; my life does not allow me that luxury. Your assumptions are way off, so why all the vitriol? Are you seriously suggesting that because I oppose delisting, I hope a wolf “eats someone’s unattended child?” That’s a pretty big jump. I advocate for creative, not merely expedient, solutions, and I think I have expressed my opinion here tonight in a civil fashion, don’t you?

Holly
As jijalagi said “kill the wolf when necessary to defend ourselves or our stock.” This is my sentiment exactly.
This is a logical and unavoidable conclusion. In Northern NJ, NY and PA we sometimes have this problem with the black bear. Many are not afraid of people and will kill a child. It does not happen often but it does happen. But bears fear wolves and dogs so I always have a pair of big ones (between 80 and 100 pounds) in my house to watch my grandchildren. But what do wolves fear?

Quietman -
Not much. Big dogs can keep a wolf away I think. I have seen a pack of wolves slowly trot away at the sound of a WW2 Mauser rifle. I do mean slowly and those things are loud. They were close to my sister who was about 10 at the time. My dad was afraid to shoot at the wolves because my sister was so close and it was hard to see with only the porch light. The wolves never made a move to her. They just trotted by. I don’t know if they would have attacked without Dad’s interference but they were already trotting by when my Dad went out on the porch. My sister said they just looked at her and walked on by. Dad’s gun didn’t scare them much.
Personally I carry a .45 in the woods. Wild dogs scare me a lot more than wolves. They don’t have the hunting abilities of a wolf and they aren’t afraid of people. People dump unwanted pets in the country and they eventually end up in hungry packs. A pair attacked me once, or tried. One was a white shepherd and the other looked like a mastiff. I knew I carried that .45 for a reason.

I’m 52 and I’ve never seen a cat catch a mouse yet. Heard of it, never saw it. I hate cats. We had a shepherd / coyote that caught field mice! I got to go now. You folks have excessive quantities of fun. ….

DK
Maybe you can afford Japanese beef but most of us can’t.

thats graet!

DK
Besides, the farmers and ranchers have the right to defend their property, their lives and the lives of their family.

Also for Bill. Consider that humans also have no natural predators and our population is also exploding. What now?

jijalagi,
I spent a lot of time in the wild when I was younger, and got to know and respect wolves in their own country. A lot of things were learned, on both sides, and I never had any trouble with them at all. Yes, I watched them hunt and it is not a sight for squeemish city-folk who do not live close to death. It is brutal and bloody, but it is also well planned, well executed, and necessary for the pack’s survival.
The trouble started when I was back in “civilized” areas. One day I had to kill a pair of wild dogs who had no man-fear and must be been really hungry as they attacked me in an open area in broad daylight. Through what I can only consider the grace of God I sustained no major injuries at all, even though I was defending myself with nothing more than a Randall knife. It was one of the most frightening experiences of my life. Nothing like this had happened when living literally nest door to a wolf pack in BC. Since that time I have always carried a .357 magnum when out hiking – never had to use it (yet) but I never again want to be faced with one or more wild dogs with nothing more than a knife for defense.
My take on all this should be obvious: kill wolves only when they directly threaten people or livestock, but go ahead and kill pack dogs wherever they are found. The dogs are the real danger – the wolves aren’t.

That’s fine if you assume these ranchers issues are regarding their cattle on “their” land but you indirectly admitted yourself they are grazing their cattle on federal land. As far as I’m concerned the wolves have as much right to that land as does the rancher or his cattle. Actually they should have more right.
I said it before, for profit trophy hunters have no problem fencing off thousands of acres to keep animals in so they can be “hunted” and these whining ranchers can do the same. The real issue is they want free reign to federal lands because it costs them less that way.

I live in NE Minnesota and have a cabin in NW Ontario. There are many wolves here and always have been, so far as I know. I hunt for food (I’m a predator) and have seen wolves while hunting, hiking, fishing, etc. but have found no reason to shoot one. This area has no ranchers, not much for livestock and a low population of humans. The packs here have huge areas to hunt whitetails, moose, mice and other prey without coming across humans. Still they have attacked dogs (yes with the owners present), cows, horses and have crossed humans in other ways (but bad encounters rare). I’ve personally never had a bad encounter despite having them enter my yard (I have huskies and they weren’t attacked). Wolves are shy, smart scavengers and opportunists and being near humans is something they clearly avoid.
Wolves are hard to find here with all of the forrest they have (easier to hear). If we could hunt them, most hunters would pass I think due to the difficulty of the hunt and low value retuned from a kill. You would have to hunt in the winter when its uncomfortable and dangerous (-40 F happens), during daylight hours (wolves are mostly nocturnal) and in remote locations. A hunt would happen after deer season when most hunters have used all of their vacation, money and appetite on deer. Our DNR has gained much respect lately and has proven very capable at managing hunts. In MN at least, its very impractical to hunt wolves and there seems no likelihood that a hunt would attract the numbers required to severely impact the population. I won’t opine on western populations but I think I can make the case that our wolf population can be sustain even with a controlled hunt (I wouldn’t partake in the killing of our wolves nor would I protest it).
On a side note… I feel pretty safe with wolves around but not with mountain lions. Wolves hunt and kill cougars and in doing so help keep us safe from a predator that occasionally attacks humans.

Wolves are beautiful creatures, until you see them in action… Unfortunatly our youngsters are being misinformed about wolves. Rememer “Little Red Ridding Hood” or the “three little pigs” there is a reason my grandparents told those stories. I know the wolves need to be controlled, I am not saying kill them all, but controll… Wolves are cruel and do thrill kill… I live Know where near the mountains, (Flat Land) wolves kill livestock, just this year one cattle producer lost 38 head, each animal lost is worth $500.00 to $1000.00. You want to talk about cruel. Sometimes Wolves eat the milk bag off the cow, while the cow is fighting to protect her calf, leaving the cow live, and the calf with no milk to drink. Wolves kill one cow a night, but leave many wounded, complete loss. I know a turkey farmer that lost all of his 300 turkeys in two nights. Thrill killing…. I know kids that have been stalked while waiting for the school bus in the morning, the next morning the wolves were eating thier pony 20 feet away from where the bus picks them up. I scene the pictures and wolves are crueler than anything I have ever seen, yet so beautiful. “Evil hids itself in beautiful faces” I seen a film where wolves attack and eat a black bear and her two cubs. This took the wolves awhile, they took turns, they eat before the animals even die. For the person that says that people should be allowed to hunt wolves with no weapon, hand to tooth, please… A pack of wolves is more than capable of eating to armed grown men. To those of you that live in the cities, and do not believe, there is good news for you… Once the wolves are done eating our cattle, pets,livestock, and wildlife, the wolves will move on to find food, they will head to the cities and move in and claim territory where there is plenty to eat. Please wake up and change things, or the wolf will be at your door too.