A Black Hole? In Switzerland?

There was a similar worry about the first atomic bomb. Some postulated that there would be an atmospheric chain reaction that would destroy us all. Of course, it never occurred. This, however is a different kettle of fish. Now, we’re mucking about with the very building blocks of EVERYTHING. I have nothing against science and experimentation, but I sure hope these guys know what they’re doing. If something does go wrong and the worst happens, how will we know it? I suppose someone over in the next galaxy will note that a new black hole formed and is causing some disturbance in the local area. Little would they know that it’s just kids playing with matches.

They are going to try and create the conditions after the big bang. Ok the one thing that didn’t occur from the big bang is a black hole. Think about it. If a black hole was created, we wouldn’t be here would we.
Wasn’t this creating a lab black hole a movie on the sci fi channel?

Interesting… but think, if… just if… they could control that back hole… Imagine how much more storage we could have in our closets or wallets!

Would’ve made a great April Fools joke if they had turned it on today and proclaimed that a black hole had been created…and we have only a few seconds to live!

One thing I haven’t seen in any of the news articles – what are the credentials of the guys bringing the suit? Are they scientists? Environmental activists? What?
Without this information, we have no way of judging whether there’s any scientific merit to their case. Please, news people – give us better information in these stories.

Just let me know b4 I pay my bills this month….plz

A generation is going, and a generation is coming; but the earth is standing even to time indefinite

yes, this is all very intresting, but can we weaponize it?

“Support the legal challenge. More work needs to be done to determine the possible effect of the LHC.”
Umm, what sort of ‘work’ would satisfy you and the unnamed “experts” such that the actual work of the LHC could be conducted?
i.e., Are you demanding ‘Prove it before you do it’???
How’s THAT work, exactly?
Of course it was feared that cars/trains/etc could NEVER go faster then 60 MPH. If so, people couldn’t breath and the gas tanks would spontaneously explode.
Likewise, as Andy pointed out the 1st Atom Bomb test was to cause a runaway fission/fusion event that would consume the earth like it did/will in ‘Escape from the Planet of the Apes’. (A pity Zera and Cornelius didn’t testify to THAT in their congressonal interrogation such that the guilty bomb wasn’t built in the 1st place!)
But then as I mentioned, MUCH more powerful collisions have, do and will occur from cosmic rays and you’re still here and alive to worry about what pi**-ants humans do in Geneva.
Likewise in all of the discovered and studied nuetron stars in the universe (Of which we might ‘know’ less then a %) only ONE seen MIGHT be composed of strangelets.
‘If’ nature in her laboratory can barely make a stable strangelet in the core of a nuetron star I hardly think we need to worry about Geneva doing ‘better’.
Maybe you should also insist that the ITER experiment be cancelled immediately too. Controlled Fusion is just too much of an unknown and cheap, clean and unlimited energy for millions of years just doesn’t justify the risk!

I think that the rewards are worth any risk. The quest for knowledge has always been a risky venture, and the reward potential here vs the odds of us getting ‘sucked up’ are stacked heavily in our favor. Go for it…if we die, I’m sure we won’t even notice.

I seriously doubt that a world engulfing black hole will appear…but if it does, who’s gonna be here to complain?
AT least we’ll get out of our credit card payments, mortgages, car payments, etc.. :)

“The fact that there is push for avoiding accountability and scrutiny should bother anyone with an I.Q. above that of a bassett hound.”
Yet you want to ‘put it to a vote’ of ALL humanity, most of whom don’t have that dog’s IQ when it comes to considering the consequences of experiments in QM. (So much for plastics, electronics, these computer and all the other modern feldercarbs that have come from basic research in quantum mechanics.)
But do tell Dave just how those cosmic rays that have been hitting earth HAVEN’T had the same results as these experiments you now fear.
And as an aside, the star Beetlegeuse is destined to go Supernova ‘any minute’.
Now when a star we can see with the naked eye explodes in a supernova I think we shouldn’t sweat what single atoms might be made to do near Bavaria. (Or even worse, if Sirius B/aka The Pup, becomes a Type 1A Supernova-since it’s barely 9 light years away our entire solar system is doomed, doomed, doomed!)

Black holes and strangelets – not to worry, the odds on either of those results happening can’t be mathematically expressed without using symbols and methods that most folks can’t understand anyway. Now, if you really WANT soemthing to worry about with CERN, worry about something that is implicit in the work of Paul Dirac – the possibility that anti-matter could be created. If that should happen it wouldn’t destroy the Earth – at least, I don’t think so – but it is quite likely that such an event would leave an impressive crater in the area that used to be Switzerland. This question has come up before, and I have never seen an answer that was in any way reassuring. I like the Alps, the cheese, and the people – I’d hate to see all that go away and betting against Dirac is a fool’s game; his work predicted that gravity would be found to be a decreasing variable rather than a constant, and we now know that he was, once again, right. Now, you have something to really worry about.

april fools…i hope

Rush, Mike? Lack of scrutiny? The LHC has been in the news and planning for almost a decade, the latest, greatest ‘hope’ in particle physics since the SSC in the U.S. was cancelled. It’s also hardly been ‘hidden’ so much as hailed and anticipated by those awaiting its discoveries. The ‘input’ and ‘scrutiny’ of the entire Physics community has been informed and available all this time with no signs of censorship or assassinations hindering them.
Indeed, it will ‘only’ be 7 times more powerfull then what’s already extant, not that great considering the power advances achieved through each generation of machines since the original Van De Graff accelerators. The Tevatron in Chicago has also already been pushing itself to its limits in the hope of discovering the Holy Grail of particle science before the LHC comes on line.
For theoretical physics can only go so far and at some point must have experimental confirmation, refutation or revelations of those things so far unsuspected. (The Higgs boson, multi-dimensions, the wrinkles of relativity-who knows? Who WANTS to know?)
Which raises the question your question asks. HOW do you determine before-hand what might happen after the fact? Don’t try? Rev it up ‘slowly’? Which wouldn’t ‘work’ anyway since the strangelet/black hole scenario is either ‘real’ or not and with such objections and standards why try ANYTHING?

“Any chance is not worth the risk. More review is needed.”….
“Which raises the question your question asks. HOW do you determine before-hand what might happen after the fact? Don’t try? Rev it up ‘slowly’? Which wouldn’t ‘work’ anyway since the strangelet/black hole scenario is either ‘real’ or not and with such objections and standards why try ANYTHING?”
Really! Why try ANYTHING? Life is risk, only death is easy and certain and even then the ultimate unknown.
But then as Andy pointed out ‘we’ can’t do anything about this-we aren’t Europe, it’s not our machine and it’s not ‘as if’ the French give much sway to anything Americans say, even if they’re French scientists. (Nor do I foresee ANY American scientists giving up their spots in line to receive the 1st data.)
Then again,the theories that proffer quantum black holes (That are STABLE and don’t evaporate in an actual atto second) or strangelets are ALSO unproven and speculative-and ironically ALSO waiting real data from the LHC for their confirmation.

Too true, Andy. Indeed it’s odd and ironic to recall that Al Gore invented the Internet solely so scientists from Keokuk to Kiev could share data and theories in real time! (From Proto-matter to Porn in less time then it took to get color TV!)
Just as in this country people can go to court for ANYTHING, and all too often do over NOTHING!
But then again, once the genies’ out of the bottle you’d be a fool NOT to use Him while you could. (From the original tale of the Arabian Nights the jin was in the bottle for a reason-Oh, well!)
But I don’t wish to overly denigrate the (hopefully sur-)real concerns of Mike, who is at least well mannered for these types of forum.
Still with our kinds of ‘power’ and influence in these matters (i.e., Null, Nill, Nada!) I can only offer the comfort that at the Event Horizon to come we’ll all be quite literally together in which he can say “I told you so” for a relativistic eternity. The CERN and Batavia guy’s will be there, too-a little ‘closer’ to the singularity but we can shout down! (And the ‘eternity’ will only be so for those guys in the Space Station, those of us here will be spaghetti-fied and crunched in all too short a relativistic time!;-)
Still again, I’ve often wondered regarding the non-evidence of all the White Holes that should be festooned across the firmanent-although I haven’t wondered so much as to want to be part of one!

Where/what is the ‘bad astronomy’ link, Mike?
If ‘none’ of us are wrong in our musings who and how do we determine any that might be ‘right’?
And that’s accepting the axiom that no theory is EVER “proved”-but many CAN be dis-proved and refuted. (Ptolemy, certain aspects of Alchemy, Anything said by any politician, etc, et al.)
I’ve already heard/mentioned the ‘tired photon’ sophistry, although that’s actually not DIS-proved.
Same with Variable Gravity, which would have ASTOUNDING implications! (And dang, general relativity was doing so well until now!;-)
What other ‘unknowns and unknowables’ are ruled on as solved and simple?
F’rinstance, I personally wonder/speculate if ‘white holes’ ALL open to the same SpaceTime-i.e., The Big Bang is actually everything everywhere that falls into ANY black hole anywhere at any time-Talk about a cyclical universe and causality violation and paradox.
Or less speculative and spectacular-that as Feynmann observed anti-matter as merely ‘normal’ matter moving backwards in time that when matter/anti-matter meet positive and negative time cancel out producing pure energy-which is ‘time’-LESS since it moves at the speed of light-QED, indeed!

On a more practical note, it’s too bad these scientists aren’t trying ways to find ways to save anywhere near the amount of energy that they’ll be expending for even a single experiment, let alone the amount expended to build the LHC.

Pleas-don’t let Al Gore near this thing.

FMB,
In the complexity of what we DON’T know, this is like putting chimps in charge of directing traffic.
The arrogance of the smart apes in charge of CERN would be laughable if it weren’t so potentially tragic. That arrogance is echoed by armchair physicists across the web in discussion forums like this one.
The arrogance is compounded by a indifference toward the rest of humanity that is truly amazing. Flippant dismissals replace caution and serious consideration of all the facts (or the lack thereof).
Perhaps the LHC will generate a whole new zoo of subatomic particles, as many have theorized. If some of these previously-unknown critters don’t implode us, explode us, dissolve us, evaporate us, or give us a worldwide case of chronic quantum hemmorhoids, then perhaps, if we’re lucky, anti-arrogance meson will eradicate the self-assured tunnel-visioned who place their own egos above the good of all.
I’m betting on big trouble instead, or else nothing spectacular. Nothing in between.

Continue with the expirements. We will never know unless we try.
It strikes me as funny when I hear people always yelling for “alternative energy”, something to replace oil. Then in a story of scientific expirementing and the possible discoveries they shout the idea down. So many “things” have been discovered by accident than by purpose. Who knows where our next very inexpensive energy will come from. I certainly don’t.
I don’t think they can create a black hole so don’t worry too much people. Think about how a black hole is made, the mass of a star collapse. Pretty sure that smashing a couple of atoms into one another will not end the world let alone the universe.

Someone please call Al Gore to stop this!!!

If a black hole were created via particle collisions, it would zig-zag back and forth through the Earth for a while, gradually growing larger… It would not grow quickly at first, since initially it would be much smaller than an atom, and so it would not interact with the much-larger atoms very often, passing through them like a bullet through clouds… Once it gets comparable to and larger than atomic size, it can grow more rapidly… As it grows, eventually it could be detected through the patterns of seismic disturbances as it continues to orbit inside the earth… The final exponential-growth phase would probably be pretty quick, but before that happened, we’ve have several months of advanced notice, in which we’d see the end coming and could discuss the situation with each other. It would be an interesting time, to say the least.

JeffsterCO,
I haven’t been ignoring your questions; I’ve been busy the last few hours and haven’t checked back in a while. The Dirac gravity equations were established as proven over 20 years ago, and it was news at the time. However, it was pushed somewhat to the “back page” of most reporting as it conflicted with other world events that seemed of more import top the average person. Berlin Wall coming down, eminent dissolution of the USSR – that sort of thing. Plus, it was primarily of interest to physicists and mathematicians; it seemed to have little relevance to the “real world”.
I’ll have to dig back in my archives to get exact data for you (this is NOT the sort of thing I’m able to hold in long-term memory). However, the proof came from some of the studies revolving around the space program.
In the meantime, don’t start checking your bathroom scales daily looking for the weight loss to show up; while gravity is decreasing, it is doing so on a cosmic time-line that will not be noticeable to us mere mortals anytime soon. (Unless, of course, we have the kind of minds that Dirac and Einstein possessed. Not me, I’m afraid.)

By definition only God can play God. If we can do something, then it isn’t playing God.
Even if the worst does happen, then so what? Those of us who believe in God will either be ready to go, or not. For those of us who are ready, then great! For those of us who are not ready, oh well, too bad for them.
For those who don’t believe in God, then they will finally know the truth. If they are right then it won’t matter to anyone. If they are wrong, oh well, too bad for them.
Personally, I am ready to go if it comes to that.

Lawrence,
I appreciate your response and the discussion this is starting, I am not going to attack you, but your last response definitely opened up some points I’d like to counter:
1) I want you to think deeply about HOW stellar, supermassive, and quantum/micro black holes form. The stellar and supermassive have been known to form by large star masses collapsing, some of which supernova. Is that the only way these large black holes form? Do you KNOW for sure? What about the possibility of a quantum/micro black hole forming and acquiring matter exponentially, eating planets, stars,and everything else in it’s gravitational field. Can you say with 100% certainty that a Micro Black Hole (MBH) created this way would not happen? This takes me to the next point:
2) You said “MBH’s are different, as they’ve never been observed” How do you KNOW they are different from other black holes? You also say that “it is THEORIZED that micro-black holes form quite often, and even in our own atmosphere, from collisions of atmospheric atoms and cosmic radiation striking the planet.” This is all theory. The speed of the cosmic rays hitting the earth and causing this possible reaction with earth matter, is negated by the fact that the speed of exit of the created particle is still near lightspeed and escapes the earth’s gravitational field simultanelously. The problem with the Massive Hadron Collider at CERN is that it is TWO OPPOSING beams of protons at near light speed colliding, the resultant velocity of the MBH created will be nearly stationary, and would be captured by the earth’s gravitational field, pulling it to the core. CERN has said that the accelerator will be producing MBH’s at a rate of 1 per second. Some of these produced will be at low or zero velocity, they will go to the earth’s core and interact with each other. Now add the cumulative effect of the intense pressure and temperature and concentration of matter at the earth’s core, and can you tell me with 100% certainty that these MBH’s will not interact with each other or gain mass?
3) You said “With this information, you can DEDUCE that black holes forming” You can only deduce from other proven facts, atmospheric MBH’s caused by cosmic ray/earth interaction have NOT been observed or proven, so you can NOT deduce that.
4) You also said “Such black holes are extremely small and ustable, and WOULD evaporate as fast as they form.” You forgot to mention this is also THEORY, postulated by Stephen Hawking in 1975. In 2004 he RETRACTED this theory as it does not fit the laws of thermodynamics. The CERN Hadron Collider project which started construction 14 years ago, was built on the premise that Hawking’s Radiation Theory for MBH’s is fact.
5) Strangelets also are theorized particles that have yet to be observed, but the theory is that they have the ability to transform all matter it interacts with into other strangelets. There is a chance the CERN accelerator will produce strangelet particles. You actually said “I think we’re OK there too.” It’s NOT OK to create particles on earth that could transform it into alternative matter.
6) You said “Now, scientists have more than likely taken all this into account and found that the scenarios aren’t worth worrying about, and have decided to go forward with the project. So it is worthless for people like us, who do not even have the capacity to know what we’re talking about with these scientists.” I am NOT worthless, you should not say that you are either. I am an intelligent man who constantly educates myself everyday through research on the internet and other sources. I took university level physics, chemistry, and biology courses because I want to learn as much as I can about our universe. I have enough detailed knowledge of the basics of the universe to ask these questions. Sometimes scientists get out of control with a collective pursuit that may run off the rails when it comes to morals, they start to have hunches rather than base experiments on facts, or dismiss small probabilities as impossible. It is very dangerous to think that the scientists have thought about every aspect of this and that “they got our back.” That same attitude has allowed dictators to rise to power.
I suggest you do some more research, I have an open mind, and welcome the discussion of others, we are all in this together.

Okay i have a question. If this works then what?. What do we do with it?. I love Star Trek. And i am all for science. I pray we can deal with the out come,of all of this. I pray it will better our world..greg

Greg,
What will come out of these experiments is basic scientific knowledge. Understanding that knowledge so that it can be of use to us is a much larger question. It is at this point that technological advance comes and as we know technology can be used for good or bad things.
Science just chases the facts and the truth of something. Until those facts are perceived to have practical value they just lie there waiting to be used.

FMB,
1. I gave that explaination to show you how black holes work, as well as we know them today. Yes, I agree it is just a theory, but a theory is always backed up by observational evidence, which is what we have of black holes. What I meant by it being ludacris for you and I to discuss things like this and just say it’s bad don’t do it, is because you and I, no matter how much we think we know, are not subject matter experts. The scientists running the facility are. If they say it’s safe, then there is more than likely a 99% chance that it is safe.
2. Not according to the research I did on Hawking Radiation yesturday.
3. Ok, you got me there. I chose the wrong wording.
4. There is a certain energy, that is known to be associated with Hawking Radiation. I can’t remember exactly what it was, I think Uhm or Uohm. I’ll have to go back and check it. But this energy has been observed in laboratory tests.
5. But is just as risky as getting into a car accident everyday on your drive to and from work. You have a 50/50 chance there. 50% you won’t get hit, 50% you will.
6. If CERN wasn’t an ethical entity, I’m sure there would be many lawsuits and articles displaying this. And the line is crossed when science finds data has been altered to come to conclusions, and said scientist’s credibility is shot.
7. Scientists aren’t held accountable and don’t have to answer to the 6.5 billion inhabitants of the planet. They never have. I doubt they ever will. The facility has been built, it will go online, if not this year, then eventually. No matter what you or I say. The projects benifits have outweighed the risks in the minds of the funders, builders, operators, and scientists who thought up, designed, and have now built the facility. A report a few years back was given on the safety of this project, they’re working on another report. I’m sure this new report will be much the same as the original.

I’m all about the advancement of knowledge, and the discoveries that will be observed… as yet undiscovered particles, states of matter, forces, and filling in the blanks of special relativity, and the amazing technology that could come from those discoveries.
What I am trying to say is that when it comes to Black Holes, we really only have telescopic observations and theories to teach us as to how they will operate. From what we have observed, black holes continue to feed on other matter and light ad infinitum. CERN is actually going to be making Microscopic Black Holes, with the theory that they are unstable and evaporate according to Hawking’s Theory. This theory has not been observed or proven when it comes to MBH’s. I understand the theory that these tiny black holes are only as strong as the source matter, but massive and supermassive black holes can accrete a literal astronomical amount after their birth. So that is all I’m saying, as a concerned citizen of Earth who shares the joy of pursuit of science and knowledge and the technological advance it brings; Are you SURE that a stationary MBH created in the world’s biggest collider will evaporate and be harmless? I think this is a risk on the order of magnitude far beyond the people worried about a nuclear bomb causing a chain reaction in the atmosphere, at the very worst case scenario they would be lots of survivors and the planet would be intact. I’m not a freak, I GET IT, they are TINY black holes, created by TINY amounts of energy (except that they are accelerated with ridiculous amounts of it), the risk is ‘infinitesimally’ small but it is still a RISK. Does CERN have the right to risk everything?
I did mis-state something on my first post about the UNI-verse too, yes the universe has survived eons of the most fantastic reactions, explosions, forces, energy and matter creations on orders of magnitude we can’t even begin to fathom and it is still here. So let me re-state what I meant, will EARTH still be here after the CERN experiments? Maybe the Orion Arm of the Milky Way will become a real strong black hole to be observed by other advancing alien civilizations in years to come, scratching their heads as to how it formed, just before they flip the switch on their megacyclotron…

So to encapsulate and respect the concerns of Mike, FMB and the other luddites worried over matters so esoteric that even the greatest minds apes could evolve are confused the ‘answer’ is…STOP!
‘Human knowledge ENDS at 1 TEV and that’s THAT!’
For there is NO way of knowing but by doing, there is no ‘slow approach’ since either a black hole exists and eats forever (or NOT!) or it doesn’t.
You don’t get a ‘little bit pregnant’ and you don’t have a half-way point between a nuetron and a MBH.
Likewise all the theories DON’T say the same thing or make the same predictions-hence the multi-billion dollar hyper-microscope which is what an accelerator actually is. (Although ‘if’ MBH’s are created and DO evaporate then what they evaporate into will be a coup beyond hope since they can/will decay into any and every particle that’s possible by the random quantum nature of the phenomenon.)
So the facts of nature we do know: MBH’s don’t cascade down from cosmic ray collisions MILLIONS of times more powerful then anything CERN could EVER achieve.
Likewise, quantum fluctuations demand that virtual MBH’s are just as prevalent as every other particle that sparkles through existence according to the Uncertainty Principle and verified through the Casimir effect. (A picosecond is as good as eternity to nature.)
But by the fears of billions of cocoyocs that’s ALL we’ll ever know, and as for the Higgs boson and other mysteries needed to advance the incomplete Standard Model-TS, it’s too frightening!

First and as said before, the precise, highly-energized collisions in the collider do not naturally occur even in space around our planet. As you know (don’t you?), most matter actually consists of empty space on the subatomic level, so most particles, including those which make it through to the surface of our planet, pass right on through and keep on going because they have an adequate escape velocity.
There’s no guarantee that unusual particles created in the LHC will have a continual escape velocity, unaffected by the planet’s gravity/mass. That alone should be cause for concern.
Thanks for mentioning neutron stars, some of which are probably composed of strangelets or strange matter (in fact, one such star has been more or less confirmed as being of this type). What do we know about the interaction of strange matter with gravity and mass? Not much. What do we know about strange matter, or dark matter, or any number of other exotic quantum beasties? Not much. But some neutron stars were once other types of stars, and now they’re composed of strangelets. Not a good argument for letting the things loose down here on our own little ball of fluff, is it?
And no, you did not answer my questions, which I even repeated for you. So here, I’ll repeat them again:
When it comes to firing the big world-smasher up, WHAT’S THE HURRY? Why the strong push from CERN to AVOID SCRUTINY? Why not convene a larger panel, ask from input from many more scientists and mathematicians?
Why is CERN AFRAID to do this?
Oh, and by the way (and as others have already told you, yet you ignore), Hawking recanted his theory of Hawking Radiation and the evaporation of tiny black holes. He said it was WRONG. Yet the CERN facility is operating, still, on the assumption that it is correct!
Ah, nothing like selectively cherry-picking your data…

Don’t let your paranoa about nuclear processes spread to the living world, for my detailed reposte was purged as well!
Oh well, another example of Huxley’s admonition regarding beautiful theories and ugly facts.
Whereas I think the gist of these posts are purportedly about Beautiful Facts rendering an Ugly Reality. (Discovering the next tiers of reality Vs the destruction of the earth!)
So for however many minutes this is allowed to remain I’ll venture something not attempted here heretofore.
i.e., I’ll ask a question for interrogatory information as opposed to pure rhetoric and intellectual traps.
So you guys have mentioned that Professor Hawkins has repudiated his theory regarding the evaporation of black holes.
Now I like to keep abreast of these things from sheer fascination, which is why your ‘rush’ is my delay. (“Why so long to find out what’s next…”)
So what’s your source? (It HAS to be Mr. Hawkins himself, actually.)
I’ve seen no mention or articles about what would be big ‘news’ in Physics, especially since his original theory was so deeply vetted by all those pompous arrogant physicists who’d relish the fame of repudiating Hawkins.
I mean I didn’t read any of this repudiation in his latest books and articles and he’s made no mention on any of his appearances on the Simpson’s, either.
So help me out here guys and let me know what’s the latest suspected from the Physicts community you otherwise eschew so deeply.

did they turn it on yet

“The Euclidean path integral over all topologically trivial metrics can be done by time slicing and so is unitary when analytically continued to the Lorentzian. On the other hand, the path integral over all topologically non-trivial metrics is asymptotically independent of the initial state. Thus the total path integral is unitary and information is not lost in the formation and evaporation of black holes. The way the information gets out seems to be that a true event horizon never forms, just an apparent horizon.”
Stephen Hawking, General Relativity Conference, Dublin, Ireland, July 2004

Sigh-it’s always made worse when imagined by those who not only don’t know what they’re talking about but don’t even know what’s being discussed. Mike mentions questions already answered but mentions them again as a trump since the answers weren’t what he wants. (“Don’t do it until you already know what will happen-in which case you don’t need to do it at all: QED”)
Clearly a non-scientific approach. Now ‘if only’ the CERN researchers were as muddled in their ‘thinking’ they wouldn’t even NEED to experiment: QED.
Then FMB cuts and pastes a paragraph he also clearly doesn’t understand since the ‘true’ and ‘apparent’ event horizon merely refers to the Relativistic viewpoint that from outside the black hole Time ‘appears’ to freeze at the event horizon while anything actually falling into it actually DOES fall into it. (It’s actually subtler then that but I’ve already learned here that actually addressing an argument just angers the Luddites.)

The fear-panic even!-is that those 2 will consume 4 which will consume 8 until all the earth gets eaten. (That any MBH so created would be far smaller then a proton and evaporate before it could move a fraction of an atom’s diameter from it creation site is irrelevent.)
The fact that the forces involved to ‘create’ this MBH are orders of magnitude smaller then what hits the earth routinely without a single black hole being created is an insufficient ‘test’ for those whose ignorance is their only credentials.
Whereas those conducting the experiment are equally ignorant but actually want to dispell that ignorance and who have far more credentials then JUST that! (That a MBH isn’t even their ‘goal’ and is incredibly unlikely as well is irrelevent to modern luddites-Higgs Boson be damned the fearfull read an article in the MSM and that’s sufficient.)

Maybe this will help.
The determining factor making a black hole a black hole is gravity.
Mass creates gravity.
2 protons would create gravity, yes.
But the mass of 2 protons would not create enough gravity to hold even 1 additional proton from floating away from the fused protons.
Thus the black hole you are afraid of, would be nothing more than 2 fused protons floating around.

No fool in thier right mind, or out of their right mind, can destroy Earth in a labratory, or with a bomb. If God wants it to happen he’ll be the deciding factor on the consequences of our actions!

JeffsterCO, I do understand enough about Stephen Hawking’s comments in 2004 to observe that he made a major retraction in his theory on the behavior of black hole event horizons. You choose to trivialize this BLATANT ERROR IN HAWKING RADIATION THEORY by using the term ‘merely’. I quote the actual man in question, Mr. Hawking to support my position in this debate and you attack my ability to comprehend.
The point, once again, is that the error and subsequent partial retraction regarding Hawking Radiation has put the whole theory in question.
Alex, your comments stating that nobody could destroy the earth in a laboratory or with a bomb are incredibly naive…Have you heard of STRANGELETS?

Why is it someone told me that the end of the world i.e. the black hole thingy, it this Wednesday? Actually, Sam told me. That’s a bit specific!
Also, and I quote, ‘but if the Earth were to be swallowed up in the course of the experiments, there would be an environmental impact on Hawaii.’ Talk about stating the obvious!
See you monday Sam. Bye!

This is a stupid idea, i mean there is something like a 1 in 50 million change that it will kill us all. So they have decided to go ahead with it! Am i the only person thinking that if there was even the slightest change that it would destroy the universe and it was up to me- you wouldn’t do it! it’s just ridiculous because lets face it no-one cares about black holes.

Interesting… so if the world supposedly ends in Dec 2012, and if the main culprit is the activation of a black hole, would it actually take about 4 years for the earth to be completely destroyed? Just a theory.

its pathetic. why risk everyones lives for a science experiment?!

A couple of points…
WHY!?! Why would anyone willingly turn on something the *could* create a black hole and destroy the Earth?! I think they are stupid to…
Why couldn’t they spen their money on something better? For example, the United Kingdom just spent X million on two aircraft carriers. Infact, why not loads of movies or food, perhaps a house! Invest in a company!
Anything that wouldn’t destroy the earth!!
Also, how would knowing what happened after the ‘big bang theory’ help any average everyday people? The asnswer is it wont. I truely believe someone should stop them turning the thing on, for everybody’s sake.
James

This could happen, even if it is a 1 and 50 million chance of it happening you still have that one.

i can’t believe they are actually allowed to do this????? i mean it could end the world and noones getting a say in wether or not it should happen! its twisted to even play god with all this GM crop crap but this is just destructive! even if this does work the first time it wont make the statistics of it happening lower! they could do it again and that time not be so lucky…
KABOOM GOES THE WORLD!!
switzerland scientists do NOT rule the world!

I mean are we serious? We are spending that much money on something that #1 costs so much it could actually feed quite a few hungry ppl, and #2 it could potentially kill us all?
It seems someone has toooooo much time on their hands and little bit toooooo much money to spend. I need some! With all the global problems we have going on you would think one could better spend their time and evidentally knowledge to better the earth and not destroy it!
Good luck, just put me out of my misery!

i think it stupid idea… cuz people at my school are freaking out because of u people and saying things like the world is going to end… i dont think u should continue in this project but hey u dont have to listen to a 13 year old girl who actually cares about her life as well as others…having the idea that the world could possibly end by a black hole sucking in the earth is a poor and scary way to die i would like to die of old age not being sucked in by a black hole cuz the not right…. :(

this would be interesting but i would rather see it be done on mars
if i could talk these idiot scientist people- i would ask them
is it worth $8 billion to lose your life as well as the entire world
what would be the point
think about it
and who cares about our origin
we are here while we are so live your life to its fullest and love it

Well I think that this whole experament is a big waste of time, like Duran said. I think it is stupid what some of these people are saying about god not being apart of this one, BUT GOD IS THE ONE WHO MADE THE EARTH,he has his own plans for when the earth will end and this is’nt one of them. God says that at the end of days the sun will go out and the gates to heaven will open and all the people that believe that jesus christ is the son of god will go to heaven, and all others will suffer on earth. Get a bible and start at JOHN 3:16 and read through the whole new testiment and you will get youre anwsere’s to how the eath will end. Because this certantly is not what god had in mind. Thank You For Reading and Have A wonderfull day here on earth which God created :)
Senceraly
Crazy Christian

I’m sure they know exactally what they’re doing. They just won’t tell you and if they did, would you question it’s meaning or pourpus? Welcome to the era of mental slavery… If you’re not aware and not angry then you must not be paying any attention. I think a lot of people still Dwell on how much better the past was instead of giving the futer any credit on how well we have it today. Use your brain they haven’t taken it away from you yet there’s a lot more to life than Fear. It’s just sad that we keep it here…. Quit teaching BS to each other(that includes War and killing others) Find understanding

do you go to church unknown person? if so what kind? christian, cathlic, buda?IDK

I can’t say I have a vast knowledge of quantum theory, but still after reading this article I am not reassured that the Switzerland Practical Accelerator could not cause catastrophic damage.
Can’t something be done to stop them?
It seems beyond logic to even risk the destruction of this planet! I don’t understand why the world is not more upset about the prospect these mad scientists are running- the risk of total destruction the world.
Though the particle acceleration is going to create a “mini” black hole there is still the possibility it will keep growing, and who is going to be able to turn it off once it gets started?
There are some areas of science I think should be left alone. The scientist should at least know more about what they are dealing with before they risk the safety of our planet Earth.
~Mahlea Rasmussen

human has been lost wiht knowledge