Comments on: How the World Listens to the World on Climate

By: B-K KnightRider

B-K KnightRider — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:48:46 +0000

FACT – Greenhouse gasses cause warming on a global scale and that effects climate as one of several major influences. FACT – CO2 is a greenhouse gas, therefore CO2 contributes to warming and thus influences climate. FACT – Human activity is adding massive amounts of CO2 to the atmosphere (currently about 28% HIGHER than the highest level ever seen NATURALLY in the last 650K years), and that means human activity is adding MORE CO2 than what would normally/naturally present in the atmosphere. Therefore, human activity MUST have some impact on climate greater than zero. The only intellectually honest debates to have are over how and how much human activity is effecting climate and what we should do about it – NOT over IF. Debating over IF we have an impact is irrational.

By: B-K KnightRider

B-K KnightRider — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:34:20 +0000

THELOYALOPPOSITION: “If you only looked at the stock market during the 90′s, you would project we would all be billionaires by retirement…. but we don’t only live in the 90′s!!!” – - – Too bad GW/CC theories don’t only consider a narrow data set (i.e. using the stock market as the only measure of economic activity) from a relatively short time frame (as in 10 years of the roughly 230 year existence of the stock market) as you falsely imply. That mischaracterization is another grossly wrong mischaracterization that demonstrates either a profound ignorance of the facts, or a profound inability to understand the facts, or profound dishonesty. That gross mischaracterization is another pathetic attempt to fabricate another straw man. The data we actually have to work with includes: changes to the polar ice caps going back decades; glaciers melting going back decades; weather observations going back up to 400 years; coral growth studies going back a few hundred years; tree ring growth studies going back about 12K years; lake sediment core studies go back up to 200K years; ice core studies go back 400K-650K years; and ocean sediment studies go back about a million years I believe. The current ice age pattern began about 3M years ago. Because of continental drift comparing today’s climate to the climate more than 3M years ago is rather pointless. In other words, the only climate that is worth comparing to current climate is the climate during the last 1M-3M years. So, using your stock market analogy, we are actually looking at 80-200 years of the stock market depending upon how much similarity we want to have with current continental positions.

By: johnC

johnC — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 16:27:02 +0000

Temps have varied a lot over history. The problem isn’t so much warming as much as warming faster than people and animals can adapt. For example wet areas become dry but no reservoirs are built or dry places become wet but don’t have adequate drainage or people need to move away from coastlines. Poor countries are even less prepared to make the quick changes. It may be too late to avoid much of the damage but it’s worth a try and the solutions can have other benefits too. There are economic costs but if done right we can built a new economy around doing things better.

By: B-K KnightRider

B-K KnightRider — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 15:54:54 +0000

THELOYALOPPOSITION: “No “environmentalist” will answer thr simple question….. If the earth’s temperatures have been riising and falling for millions of years… why is “any” change a surprise??” – - – That question is a false question which mischaracterizes the issue. That mischaracterization of “‘any’ change” as supposedly causing surprise is grossly dishonest and nothing more than a pathetic attempt to fabricate a straw man. GW theory DOES NOT claim or depend upon a proposition that temperatures did not vary in the past according to NATURAL cycles and NATURAL variations and NATURAL influences. GW theory DOES NOT claim natural variations will not continue in the future. The issue in question is over how human activity might effect/change the NATURAL variations by at the vary least makiing the NATURAL variations WARMER than they would normally/naturally be and change their duration. In other words, the issue is about human activity making natural warm cycles WARMER than they would normally get and last longer and start earlier than what would happen naturally. AND possibly make natural warm cycles start earlier than they would normally start. AND make natural cold cycles WARMER than they would normally get and not last as long as they would normally last. The “surprise” is unprecedented changes, NOT “‘any’ change.” For example, The highest CO2 levels ever got NATURALLY in the last 650K years (only once BTW) was about 300-305 ppm. We exceeded that level around 1880 and are now about 390 ppm. That NEVER happened NATURALLY in the last LAST 650K years. Your claim that “‘any’ change” is necessariliy some kind of a surprise illustrates either profound ignorance of the facts, a profound inability to understand the issue, or a profound level of dishonesty. CO2 levels began a steady rise, as in nonstop, as in NEVER declining, around 1760. Then around 1800 CO2 levels surpassed the average of the last 650K years. Then around 1820-1840 CO2 levels surpassed four of the five peak levels of the last 650K years. Then, and again, around 1880 CO2 levels surpassed the highest level they ever got naturallly in the last 650K years. The current long-term warming trend (which includes natural variations and about 11 brief cooling trends) began around 1880. And all of that happening since the beginning of the Industrial Revolution is supposedly just an unlucky coincidence? Yeah, right. Keep on dreaming in that fantasy land.

By: MET

MET — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 02:17:37 +0000

Because this is the first time that so much carbon dioxide has been released into the Earth’s atmosphere so quickly as revealed by ice core analysis dating back many years…

By: TheLoyalOpposition

TheLoyalOpposition — Fri, 09 Dec 2011 00:06:49 +0000

No “environmentalist” will answer thr simple question….. If the earth’s temperatures have been riising and falling for millions of years… why is “any” change a surprise?? —- If you only looked at the stock market during the 90′s, you would project we would all be billionaires by retirement…. but we don’t only live in the 90′s!!!