— -- THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR "THIS WEEK" ON JULY 12, 2015.
ANNOUNCER: Starting right now on ABC's THIS WEEK, final countdown -- an historic deal with Iran in reach.
But as the clock ticks down, could the negotiations still fall apart?
Martha Raddatz is inside Iran this morning.
Then, 2016 drama -- Trump's rallying cry on immigration, Jeb's eye-popping fundraising and Hillary's first national close-up. The other woman in the race, Carly Fiorina, is here live.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You never really understand a person until you consider things from his point of view.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: What if Atticus Finch is a racist?
The shocking revelation in "To Kill A Mockingbird's" brand new sequel.
FROM ABC NEWS, THIS WEEK with George Stephanopoulos begins now.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: And as we come on the air this morning, those marathon talks to keep Iran from getting a nuclear weapon may finally reach their end.
After years of jockeying, 15 days straight of negotiations, the next day appears to be make or break. Hopes for a deal highest in Iran this morning.
And our Martha Raddatz is live on the scene in Teheran -- good morning, Martha.
MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, George.
This could be a country on the brink of change. A high-ranking Iranian official telling us just a short time ago she is quite optimistic that a deal will come in the next 24 hours.
In Vienna, where negotiators have been huddled for more than two weeks, Secretary of State John Kerry told reporters this morning he had a positive meeting with the Iranian negotiator.
But there are still a few tough things to figure out, although the Secretary says he remains hopeful.
Major sticking points have been Iran demanding an end to an arms embargo, including on ballistic missiles, and how fast sanctions would be lifted.
This, of course, is a nation that continues to back Syria's dictator, has called for the destruction of Israel and still has several Americans imprisoned here.
We have been here all week talking to the people of Iran, listening, watching. What we found is a nation of contradictions struggling to change.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Iran is vibrant, chaotic and divided. From the chic Teheran shopping malls where Westernized young women push the limits on the legal requirement to cover their hair...
(on camera): Many years ago, you probably would have been arrested.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes.
RADDATZ (voice-over): -- to the mass marches we saw this week, with the faithful shouting "Death to America!" and any nuclear deal along with it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Obama very bad. John Kerry all (INAUDIBLE) are very bad.
RADDATZ: It is a nation in a tug of war. It's emboldened youth population battling against those clinging to the past. It is that divide that has made a nuclear deal so difficult here.
For the hardliners in Iran, it is about religion and history -- the U.S. support of the corrupt former shah led to the seizure of the U.S. Embassy in 1979.
Since the holding of those 52 Americans hostage for 444 days, a deep and bitter mistrust has continued.
But in Iran, the vitriol against the West, and especially against Israel, goes well beyond just words. Over the years, despite efforts to stop them, officials say Iran's ability to build a nuclear bomb has become a very real threat.
Candidate Barack Obama thought there was a new way to convince the Islamic Republic, which denies it wants a bomb, to end its atomic quest...
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need to talk to Iran and Syria.
RADDATZ: The campaign promise became reality in 2013, the first direct communication between the U.S. and Iran since 1979. Years of punishing sanctions brought Iran to the negotiating table and the chances for a permanent agreement down to the wire.
JOHN KERRY, SECRETARY OF STATE: We are not going to sit at the negotiating table forever.
RADDATZ: The U.S. has staked much on these negotiations, but there is even greater pressure here in Iran. While the hardliners h a powerful voice in this country, look again at these young people, at this young family, welcoming American visitors. Seventy percent of Iranians are under the age of 35, born after the revolution.
(on camera): What those who support a deal are hoping for, especially here in Teheran, is not only an opening up of cultural relationships with the rest of the world, but also economic gain.
(voice-over): The sanctions prevent Iran not only from doing business with the U.S., but for most of the industrialized world. The Iranian stock market we visited expected to soar on announcement of the deal and eventual lifting of the sanctions.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I believe the sanctions are not fair to people, because it’s hurting the people, not the government.
RADDATZ (on camera): You would like to see an agreement --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Because the people, they don’t have any problem with (INAUDIBLE). The Iranians (INAUDIBLE) Americans (INAUDIBLE).
RADDATZ: And the sanctions have -- have been difficult for everyone?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Yes. Difficult for everybody.
RADDATZ (voice-over): But not as difficult now as it could be if there is no deal. People here are expecting change and counting on it. “New York Times” reporter Thomas Erdbrink has lived in Iran for 13 years.
THOMAS ERDBRINK, “NEW YORK TIMES” REPORTER: If there is a deal, we’ll see at first people dancing on the streets. It doesn’t mean that they want to, you know, change their country and have Starbucks and McDonalds on every corner, but it does mean that they can move toward a future without sanctions, do business, get education, be in touch with the world.
RADDATZ: But after all the talk and all the tension in Vienna, in the end, it will be up to this man, the supreme leader, Ayatollah Khamenei. If there is a deal, he will have approved it and he will be the man who has to bridge the gap so evident in Iran today.
RADDATZ (on camera): And yet addressing students yesterday, the Ayatollah said, be prepared for a struggle against arrogant power, a clear reference to the U.S. That may sound like he is against a deal, but he set no new red lines. And even if there is a nuclear deal, no one expects our countries to become the best of friends. And as we said, many here are optimistic about a deal, including one of Iran’s vice presidents, who we spoke to earlier this morning.
And you are smiling this morning. Does that mean you are optimistic that there could be a deal any time?
MASOUMEH EBTEKAR (ph), IRANIAN VICE PRESIDENT: Yes, for sure. I’m quite optimistic.
RADDATZ: Earlier in the week there was a clear setback and things got quite fiery, it appeared. The American officials say it was because the Iranian negotiators said that they wanted all sanctions off the table, including those about an arms embargo.
EBTEKAR: Iran deserves a -- a role, just like any other country in the world in terms of trade, particularly being able to defend itself. The mentality of subjugation, superiority, one superior to the other, that has to change.
RADDATZ: If there is a deal, what will that mean for Iranian and American relations?
EBTEKAR: It’s not necessarily that we’re going to have cordial relationships, but it will signify an improvement in relationships, it will signify an opportunity for both sides to work together to resolve some of the issues that we have in this part of the world.
EBTEKAR: ISIS or drug trafficking or other issues.
RADDATZ: So, one week from today, when we look back on this week, what do you think we’ll say?
EBTEKAR: We look at this moment as, I think, as an important turning point in history. It is a game changer.
RADDATZ: And one note about the vice president. Back in 1979, she was the young spokeswoman for the students who held those American hostage at our embassy.
And back in Washington, Congress will have 60 days to review any deal that may be reached. And for that, we throw it back to George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you, Martha.
That’s going to bring us to a senior Democrat on the Senate Foreign Relations Committee, Bob Menendez.
Thank you for joining us.
You just saw that optimism in Iran. Does that make you hopeful or anxious?
SEN. BOB MENENDEZ (D-NJ), SENATE FOREIGN RELATIONS COMMITTEE: Well, it makes me anxious because what a deal looks like is incredibly important. And the problem here, George, is that we have gone from preventing Iran having a nuclear ability, to managing it. And what we are doing is basically rolling back sanctions for -- not rolling back Iran’s elicit nuclear infrastructure, but rolling back sanctions for verification.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But according to the administration, putting off for 10 to 15 years. Can any other policy do better than that?
MENENDEZ: Well, I think we started off with the wrong premise. We did not test the premise, can you get some of that infrastructure to actually be removed because, at the end of the day, that’s where we started. We started off with the premise that Iran could not keep its nuclear infrastructure, at least all of it. So we still have a plutonium reactor, reconfigured but still a plutonium reactor. We were originally told by Secretary Kerry that is either going to be dismantled by them or it will be destroyed by us. We have uranium enrichment deep inside of a mountain. That doesn’t happen for a peaceful civilian program. That’s going to stay, again, reconfigured to less uranium enrichment.
So the question is, even President Obama said that under this potential deal, in 12, 13 years, they will have a pathway towards a nuclear bomb should they choose to do so. And how this deal structures our ability to make sure that if that’s the best deal you’re going to get, what type of verification inspection regime, is it still going to be any time, any place for the International Atomic Energy Administration, what type of sanctions relief are we giving? And at the end of the day, I hope that notwithstanding a deal, that the president makes a very clear statement to Iran that as it relates to the future, we cannot accept Iran having a nuclear weapon period. That’s the premise we started on. That’s the premise we should finish on.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sounds like you’re not going to support it.
MENENDEZ: Well, I’m going to judge it when I have all of the elements of it, but, obviously, I think we should have started it a different way. I’ll judge the agreement based upon what it is. But we have to make very clear that there is a deterrence in the longer term because, if not, in 12, 13 years, we will be exactly back to where we are today, except that Iran will have $100 billion to $150 billion in its pocket and promoting its terrorism throughout the Middle East.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Menendez, thanks for your time this morning.
MENENDEZ: Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And that brings us to our next guest, GOP presidential candidate Carly Fiorina.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): She broke through the glass ceiling at computer giant Hewlett-Packard. The first female CEO of a top 20 U.S. company. After getting fired in a boardroom shake-up, Fiorina’s California Senate bid failed in 2010. But with trademore (ph) tenacity, she’s reaching higher than ever.
CARLY FIORINA (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I’m Carly Fiorina and I’m running for president.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The only woman in a sprawling GOP field, touting her corporate experience --
FIORINA: I understand how the economy actually works.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Her personal journey --
FIORINA: I’m a cancer survivor.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And taking on Hillary.
FIORINA: Unlike her, I’ve actually accomplished something.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That’s earning her good reviews at early campaign stops. The big question now, can all that energy boost her poll numbers and buy her a ticket to those first debates.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Carly Fiorina joins us live from Manchester, New Hampshire, right now.
Good morning, Ms. Fiorina. Thank you for joining us.
Want to start right there with the Iran nuclear talks. You just heard Senator Menendez, the Iranian side as well. You said that you would have walked away from the talks a long time ago. So if you were president today, what exactly would you be doing with Iran?
FIORINA: Well, I would have walked away because if you can’t walk away from the negotiating table, the other side just keeps negotiating. And that’s precisely what’s happened. We have caved on every major goal that President Obama set, as Senator Menendez pointed out, and so I would walk away and I would the Iranians that until and unless they are prepared to open every nuclear facility, every uranium enrichment facility to full and unfettered inspections, that we will make it as difficult as possible for them to move money around the global financial system. We can do that. We don’t need anyone’s permission or collaboration to do that.
And beyond that, of course, we should have recognized from the outset that China and Russia have not been negotiating on our side of the table. It is in those two countries interests
And beyond that, of course, we should have recognized that China and Russia have not been negotiating on our side of the table. It is in those two countries' interests that Iran's economy is open. And so in many ways they have been negotiating on Iran's side of the table.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about the economy right now. Jeb Bush, one of your opponents in this primary race, has set out a goal of 4 percent economic growth. And he caused quite a stir this week with this statement.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Workforce participation has to rise from its all-time modern lows means that people need to work longer hours and through their productivity gain more income for their families.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That phrase "need to work longer hours" drew a lot of criticism from many fronts, including from the campaign of Ted Cruz who said it would seem to me that Governor Bush would want to avoid the kind of comments that led voters to believe that Governor Romney was out of touch with the economic struggles many Americans are facing.
What did you think of that comment from Governor Bush. And do you agree with his goal of 4 percent growth?
FIORINA: Well, I think 4 percent growth is a good goal. And I think the fact that we have become used to an economy that sort of putt putts along between 1 and 2 percent is sort of tragic. I think we need to understand what the true engine of economic growth and job creation is in this country. It has always been small businesses new businesses, family owned businesses, community-based businesses that create two-thirds of the jobs and employ half the people. And we are now crushing those businesses. In fact, we are destroying more businesses in the United States now that are being created for the first time in our history.
Meanwhile, crony capitalism is alive and well, the big are bigger, the wealthy are getting wealthier, because with a very large powerful complicated government, which is what we have and which Democrats want more of, only the big, the powerful, the wealthy and the well connected can survive.
Americans who have jobs are working longer and longer hours, those who are working part-time want to work full-time. We're tangling people's live up in webs of dependents who would like to move forward in their lives, only our programs and sent them to fall back into those webs. So, yes, we need to grow this economy, but that begins by understanding where growth and job creation come from, and that's the small, the new, the family-owned businesses, the community-based businesses, those are being crushed by the weight and the power of this federal government.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Big economic speech coming tomorrow from Hillary Clinton. She's going to address what she calls the defining challenge of our time, the wage gap, the fact that Americans are working harder than ever before, but their wages are not going up. Do you agree with the way that she's defined the problem? And if her ideas aren't the best way to address it, which ones are?
FIORINA: Well, I think income inequality is a huge problem. And let's look to the state of California where I lived for 12 years, liberal policies have been in place for decades, and yet 111 billionaires, good for them, the highest poverty rates in the nation, the exodus of the middle class, the destruction of industry after industry. Now they're destroying agriculture in California.
The truth is, Hillary Clinton's ideas create more income inequality. Why? Because bigger government creates crony capitalism. When you have a 70,000 page tax code, you've got to be very wealthy, very powerful, very well connected to dig your way through that tax code. So, she made to cry income inequality, what I will continue to point out is the fact that every policy she is pursuing will make income inequality worse, not better, crony capitalism even worse, not better. And meanwhile, we will continue to crush the businesses that create jobs and middle class families.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump drawing a huge crowd in Phoenix, Arizona last night. I know you've already critiqued his campaign so far saying he's trying to get a whole bunch of attention, but is the Republican Party now at the risk of the side show becoming the main event, and will you support Donald Trump if indeed and the long shot comes through he's the nominee.
FIORINA: Well, you know, it's interesting. I have been in New Hampshire now for six days. And I have not been asked a single question about Donald Trump.
On the other hand, I think Donald Trump taps into an anger that I hear every day. People are angry that a commonsense thing like securing the border or ending sanctuary cities is somehow considered extreme. It's not extreme, it's commonsense. We need to secure the border.
People are also angry at a professional political class of both parties that talks a good game, gives good speeches, but somehow nothing ever really changes. And people are angry as well at a double standard in the media.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Carly Fiorina, thanks very much for joining us this morning.
Coming up, a whole new look at Atticus Finch in this year's hottest book. Will To Kill A Mockingbird still feel the same?
And three major U.S. companies paralyzed by computer problems on the same day: coincidence or the latest strike in the cyber wars?
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to be right back with that shocking twist in this year's most anticipated new book. Harper Lee's “To Kill A Mockingbird's” sequel portrays an elderly Atticus Finch as racist. A close friend of the reclusive author joins us next.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GREGORY PECK, "ATTICUS FINCH": The defendant is not guilty.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The character of Atticus Finch was voted the greatest movie hero of all time, won Gregory Peck the Oscar. He was said to believe the role brought him closest to being the kind of man he aspired to be.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Atticus Finch, the Alabama lawyer whose brave stance for justice and against racism in "To Kill a Mockingbird" stirred the conscience of a nation.
"FINCH": Now gentlemen, in this country, our courts are the great levelers and in our courts all men are created equal.
STEPHANOPOULOS: An iconic American character, paragon of tolerance and justice, but Harper Lee's brand new book, "Go Set a Watchman" paints a darker portrait of Atticus Finch, a racist, angry about integration.
And with 2 million copies already in print, it will pack a cultural punch when it goes on sale Tuesday.
We're joined now by a friend of Harper Lee, who's just produced a PBS documentary on her life, Mary Murphy.
Welcome. Some people are already saying when they heard about this that they're not going to read the book. They don't want to ruin their view of Atticus Finch.
How big a jolt was it for you to read these pages and see the racist reveal?
MARY MURPHY, JOURNALIST: First of all, I just want to say I'm not a friend of Harper Lee's. I just -- I've done a lot of reporting on her. But reading the book, Atticus Finch in the book, "Go Set a Watchman," says a lot of racist things. That was the normal for Alabama in that time.
I mean, this was right after Brown v. Board; this state, after all, that would rather close public schools than allow them to be integrated and what Atticus Finch says is not unlike what a lot of white Southerners were saying. It was a rare thing to find a liberated Southern white man.
So he -- the character in this novel is in keeping and in tempo with the political history of Alabama.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And not unlike her description of her father at the time, A.C. Lee. And this book, written in 1957, I got to read most of it last night and it was a -- I couldn't put it down.
But it was kind of shocking. And you almost felt the shock that Harper Lee must have felt when she went home from New York and went back to her small hometown.
MURPHY: Well, I think that -- I mean that is -- Scout is really the hero of this novel and it -- and you hear this story from Southerners again -- and it's a painful story. It's a painful story of going home to where you came from and finding that you're completely at odds with the beliefs of your family, of the people that you love, of the place that you love.
And this is a story that Harper Lee tells. I mean, her father was a legislator and it would have been shocking for -- he would -- it would have been shocking if he could have gotten elected if he was a completely liberated Southern man.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You last saw Harper Lee on June 30th.
Do you think she's aware of what a shock this will be to people?
And are you confident -- there's been some dispute about this -- are you confident she wanted this book published?
MURPHY: I don't know how much she reads the -- you know, I don’t -- I don't know if she's following the coverage. I saw her last Thursday; I came with a crew and microphones and I was given permission to record an event in Monroeville, Alabama, when she received her first copy of "Go Set a Watchman."
She expressed happiness about having it published. She said thank you to her publishers. All her statements indicate happiness about it being published. And I think that I would just leave it there. Everything that's come from her and from her lawyer and from the friends that are close to her that I've interviewed, they all say she was delighted that this manuscript was found and that it's being published again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I have to say, I'm just one reader, but for me it enriched the experience of "To Kill a Mockingbird" and makes Atticus Finch an even more deeply human.
MURPHY: Did you get to the end? Scout gets a little drunk.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I have 50 pages to go.
Mary Murphy, thanks very much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: When we come back, the New York Stock Exchange, United Airlines, "The Wall Street Journal" computer glitches crippled them all this week. Coincidence or the last strike in the cyber wars? That's up next.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And coming up, the roundtable weighs in on Donald Trump and all the week's politics.
Plus, cyber war expert Richard Clarke on the massive attacks that just keep coming.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In THIS WEEK'S Closer Look, the growing threat of cyber war -- America's incoming military chief sounded the alarm this week after computer glitches at three major American companies on the same day.
And we also learned that the massive hack on the U.S. government compromised more than 20 million people.
ABC's Pierre Thomas reports on how the U.S. is fighting back.
PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): A cyber attack of epic proportions, with extraordinary national security implications -- 22 million federal workers, contractors and their associates exposed. The U.S. Office of Personnel Management hit by hackers targeting databases storing critical information from government background checks.
Among the victims, the FBI director himself.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: I'm sure the adversary has every place I've ever lived since I was 18, every foreign travel I've ever taken, all of my family, their addresses.
THOMAS: The primary suspect, according to U.S. officials, the Chinese government.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Only the imagination limits what a foreign adversary could do with detailed information about a federal employee's education, career, health, family, friends, neighbors and personal habits.
THOMAS: The OPM director resigned Friday amid the fallout, as the nation comes to grips with a new era where federal agencies are under siege.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They're all juicy targets for an adversary. So we worry night and day.
THOMAS: We were at Homeland Security's secret center for fighting the cyber war just days before the first OPM breach was detected.
(on camera): In a given day, how many attempts or attempted attacks are there on the U.S. government agencies?
PHYLLIS SCHNECK, DEPUTY UNDERSECRETARY OF SECURITY, NATIONAL PROTECTIONS AND PROGRAMS DIRECTORATE: My estimate would be in the tens of thousands.
THOMAS: Phyllis Schneck said the Cyber Center helped the OPM identify the hack then use a sophisticated new monitoring system that revealed it was wider and deeper than first thought.
SCHNECK: So the board you're looking at is a system that we call Einstein because we...
THOMAS (on camera): Einstein?
SCHNECK: Einstein. We have censors on -- in government agencies and we're able to show and understand how much traffic comes in and out, what looks wrong at a certain time.
THOMAS (voice-over): But while Einstein may be improving cyber security, critics say the U.S. government's defenses are woefully inadequate.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Eighty billion dollars on information technology and it stinks. It doesn't work.
THOMAS: The nominee to head the Joint Chiefs of Staff says the military will respond.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: My role will be to provide the president with a full range of options to deal with these cyber attacks.
THOMAS: A new era of cyber war now fully engaged.
For THIS WEEK, Pierre Thomas, ABC News, Washington.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks, Pierre, for that.
Let's get more on this from cyber terror expert, Richard Clarke, key adviser to four presidents.
Welcome back, Richard.
We heard how worried about this OPM hack the FBI director was. You served four presidents, so your background likely looked at, as well.
Try to give a sense of how serious this breach was and what can be done with this information.
RICHARD CLARKE, CHAIRMAN & CEO, GOOD HARBOR RISK MANAGEMENT: Well, it's very serious because the -- the form that I had to shell out went on for almost 100 pages -- everything about my background. And they have that for 21 million Americans, date of birth, Social Security number, foreign contacts, foreign trips, any problems you've ever had medically or psychologically, any addiction problems you ever had.
They can use this information to blackmail people. They can use it to steal identities.
But, George, I don't blame the Chinese. This is what intelligence agencies do. This is what we, the United States, do. We steal this sort of information.
I blame the Obama administration for taking this issue not seriously enough.
CLARKE: This is almost criminal negligence.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Criminal negligence, those are strong words, Richard. We just saw the incoming chair of the Joint Chiefs say that all options are on the table.
If there has been criminal negligence, what's the most important thing in the -- that needs to be done right now that's not being done?
CLARKE: We need to take the job of cyber security away from 50 or 60 small government agencies like OPM that clearly can't handle it and create one authority in the federal government that has the mandate and the money to secure cyber space.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Also, you said this week, you know, we saw these glitches hit the same day -- the New York Stock Exchange, United Airlines, "The Wall Street Journal" Web page. Computer software problems blamed. Every official who came out said no, no, no, there's not -- this is not an act of cyber war.
But you sounded a note of skepticism.
CLARKE: Well, they all said it wasn't cyber war within hours of it happening. And to find out, it actually takes weeks of forensic activity to go through the log files and do the -- the good, detailed forensics.
We know two things. Coincidences do happen in the world a lot. But we also know that in cyber war, people do trial runs. And they try to make those trial runs look like something other than what they are. They try to make them look like normal computer failure.
Either way, what it proves is that the networks that we rely on as a country are very fragile. And if this happens without anybody doing malicious activity, think of what could happen if someone did to malicious activity.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That is some point. Scary stuff.
OK, Richard Clarke, thanks very much.
We'll be back with more from Martha Raddatz in Tehran.
Plus, the roundtable analyzes the week in presidential politics -- Hillary's first interview, Bush's big haul and the ubiquitous Donald Trump.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Who would you rather have negotiating a deal, a trade deal with anybody? Trump or Hillary?
So who would you rather have negotiating a really good deal with Mexico, China, Japan? Trump or Jeb Bush?
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Several thousand people in Phoenix last night for Donald Trump. Let's talk about it now on our roundtable. I’m joined by Cokie Roberts, Greta Van Susteren from FOX News, Democratic strategist Van Jones and Republican strategist Kristen Soltis Anderson; she got a new book out, called "The Selfie Vote: Where Millennials Are Leading America."
KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST AND AUTHOR: Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- welcome to all of you.
Cokie, you got to start with Donald Trump. I know Carly Fiorina says she didn't get asked a single question on New Hampshire. I believe that. But it's true that he is sucking up a lot of oxygen here in the media space and it's got some Republicans…
COKIE ROBERTS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, it's got Republicans very, very antsy because he's not only taking the attention away from candidates they think are better candidates, but he's, once again, riling up Hispanic voters. And the Republicans have been trying desperately to woo those voters and everything he says just sends --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But isn't that an opportunity, Greta --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- he says all these things so they can push off him.
GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS HOST: Well, sure, except he's putting a stink bomb right at the Republican Party. I think they wanted to wait to discuss the Hispanic vote. They wanted to at least wait until next spring, when at least when the caucuses and the primary starts.
So, yes, he's forcing them to talk about it. It's getting it off other topics but I don't think -- I think they didn't expect it so soon.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The question is, Kristen Soltis Anderson, how -- what kind of staying power does Trump have. You see these polls; he's rising up in the polls but he's also the candidate that more voters anywhere else say they would never vote for under any circumstances.
So you imagine he's going to fall eventually. The question is when.
ANDERSON: Right. It's a little bit of a self-fulfilling prophecy at this point. He gets 10-15 percent in the polls but he gets 90 percent of the coverage of the Republican primary. So a lot of folks, they'll get these calls from pollsters, and they'll read their 17 names and say who are you going to vote for and Trump's the last name they heard on the news.
At this point, before the debate gets started, these polls are a lot about who's heard of whom and name ID. I think that once the debates begin, Trump will go back to being a sideshow rather than --
VAN SUSTEREN: I don't think he's going to give up, though.
VAN SUSTEREN: He may stick it out until the end.
VAN JONES, CNN POLITICAL COMMENTATOR: He's going to be in the debates and he's going to be saying this stuff with Republicans next -- have to say they agree or they disagree -- I want to be very clear. It is fine for Americans to disagree about immigration policy. What he's -- he's gone beyond that. He's now talking about the Mexican people themselves. He's saying that the Mexican people who are coming here are rapists and murderers -- 14 million people he's smearing and maligning. That's wrong. And we have to say very, very clearly, all of us, that kind of stereotyping of a -- of 14 million people is not --
JONES: -- in American politics.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- have gotten lathered (ph) -- also this week we saw the first major television interview in the campaign for Hillary Clinton, gave it to CNN's Brianna Keilar. Here's a little bit of it.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I've never had a subpoena. There is -- again, let's take a deep breath here. Everything I did was permitted by law and regulation. I had one device. When I mailed anybody in the government, it would go into the government system.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: So you had that. Didn't get the best reviews over the course of that interview.
ROBERTS: That's where she really has a problem, I think. It's not so much the emails and all that, because that's hard for voters to care about.
But she's not on her game in these interviews. She's just not there yet. I did think she said one thing that I think we're going to be hearing a lot about. She said what voters care about is who will be there when they need them. And I think that's going to be her theme.
And that somewhat plays into the grandmother theme, because your grandmother is there when you need her. And I think that that's a way of dealing with this age issue, because that's going to be a real issue.
VAN SUSTEREN: See, I don't think it made a bit of difference, that interview, because people -- she's unique in politics. People who love her will still love her; people who hate her will still hate her. Most Americans who might be in the middle aren't paying any attention at all to the interviews until (INAUDIBLE) this elections at this time.
I think all this data's sort of a call off the dogs because the national media was insisting on an interview. And I think that was the only purpose of it so she could say I did my national interview and then go back to politicking. But I don't think it made a bit of difference.
JONES: Well, I think she was kind of pushed into it. She had that horrible moment where they got pictures of rope -- having ropes, pulling reporters away from her. That looked terrible. So you had to do something --
JONES: -- moving rope, not that cattle herd. So I think she had to do something so she did something. So she checks the box. Let's not forget, had she been doing a budget interview, we'd be sitting here saying she's over exposed; she's --
JONES: -- no matter what she does, she's Hillary Clinton and she's going to be controversial.
ANDERSON: But a big headline that comes out of your interview is "everything I did was legal," that's probably not the headline that you really want out there. I mean, Hillary Clinton --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- disputed --
ANDERSON: -- I think for some Democrats, there's a little bit of nervousness. You've seen these big crowds showing up for Bernie Sanders and, by the way, Bernie Sanders is winning about a quarter of the Democratic Party and there's not nearly as much as hindering about, well is he messing up the Democratic brand? Is he undercutting this idea that --
VAN SUSTEREN: -- takes him seriously, though. I mean, look at some of the things -- he's a Socialist -- but I don't think he's being taken seriously; whereas Trump is tapping into something that bothers a large portion of the population. So there's a difference --
ROBERTS: -- tapping into something, too. He's tapping into the -- since the big guys get everything and the little guy --
VAN SUSTEREN: But they're all saying that --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- they're both tapping into different strains of populism -- right now, which is where the crowds come from. What it'll mean when the votes come around is a very different matter.
VAN SUSTEREN: I guess I can't get off the things that he's written and I've admittedly back nearly 70s but sort of he wrote about some study for the cure of cancer which --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- the staying power, I agree with that. But right now, he's clearly getting --
VAN SUSTEREN: But he may not -- he's less likely to stay in than Trump is.
STEPHANOPOULOS: One thing that's going to keep --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- I'm actually not sure about that, either. But I want to move on.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now. One of the things that's going to keep Jeb Bush in is money. We still learned this week he raised $114 million. But Van Jones, you also saw Democrats take off on this need to work longer hours comment, even though Bush later clarified. He said this is for part-time workers. You can be sure we're going to hear more from that from Hillary Clinton in her big economic speech tomorrow.
JONES: Absolutely. And this is very dangerous territory for Jeb Bush. Look, I trust that he's being taken out of context to a certain extent. But the reality is that when you have someone like him say people should be working harder that sounds horrible because the -- that's not what he meant. And I think --
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He said longer hours. That's a different thing.
JONES: Let me get me back to that.
I think the most important thing that we have to take seriously here is that the American people are working long hours. They are working hard. What's happened is the wages haven't kept up with those longer hours. And so Democrats are going to be hitting hard on this point around wage stagnation. And I think the Republicans are vulnerable because they're against the minimum wage hike. They want us to work towards 70-75 on Social Security. Those things do not sound good at this moment.
ROBERTS: But what he says and what the reporters who were there say was clear was that he was talking about one of the reasons that wages are low is because people aren't working long enough hours to be able to get him. They're working part-time when...
STEPHANOPOULOS: And being forced to work part-time.
ROBERTS: And when they want to be working fulltime.
ANDERSON: The economy is not running on all cylinders right now is the problem. And I think that what he's trying to say is, look, if we're running on seven our of eight cylinders that's not the kind of economic growth that we need. And it makes it harder for employees to go to their bosses and argue for higher wages.
VAN SUSTEREN: And the dangers of the media. You dare to speak to them and they'll sound bite you to death and they will sounds bite you to death and they'll cut it, will hair split and everything else.
You know, this is interesting for us.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't you think he's doing a good thing by pretty much going out there every day.
ROBERTS: And talking and talking and talking...
ANDERSON: Oh yeah, but do you know what I think the better idea...
JONES: Get the facts right, though, on the economy -- you want to get the facts right before we go too far here, because actually involuntary part-time work has actually gone down because of Obamacare. Because of Obamacare, you have fewer people who are involuntarily working parttime.
ROBERTS: But it's still much higher...
JONES: So -- hey, look, it needs to be a lot better, but I just want to say this, this idea that the Republicans have been beating up on saying that, you know, everybody is being -- you know, Obamacare disaster, everybody is being forced -- that's actually the numbers are different than what the Republicans are saying.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Before we go, I want to get to something else this week, a milestone in race relations this week: that Confederate flag in South Carolina came down from the Statehouse. And at the same time, you just heard my statement on this new Harper Lee novel, Go Set A Watchman.
Cokie Roberts, I know you've had a chance -- you've lived through this.
ROBERTS: That's right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you think people are going to take away from it all?
ROBERTS: I think that the book, seeing that flag come down is quite a moment. I mean, that -- and I'm such a geek, I watched the whole debate in the South Carolina house...
STEPHANOPOULOS: It was some debate.
ROBERTS: It was really something, the emotions on both sides were really quite high.
I had ancestors who fought in the Confederate armies. I mean, you know, I know this life very well. But it was -- it was a moment that the country really needed to have happen to have that flag come down.
But the book is another story, because the book is truth. I mean, I think this is her real book. An editor whomever said, you know, America doesn't want to read this book right now...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Too raw.
ROBERTS: Too raw.
But I lived that, too. I would go home to Louisiana in high school, which is when she was writing that book. And see members of my family, not my parents, who were great civil rights activists, but the others, you know, saying things that were just shocking to me. And it's very, very hard.
JONES: I just want to say something about the flag coming down. I'm a southern, my whole family is from the south, I remember my father, very strong guy. We would drive around. We see that Confederate flag on the back of a truck, he would get tense.
I know the power of that symbol to intimidate people. I was -- when that flag came down, a lot of tears came down, I was very, very proud of Governor Haley for taking the stand that she did and for those legislators.
VAN SUSTEREN: Good for the flag coming down, now for the book is that I hate to see heroes destroyed. And this is a fictional hero in To Kill a Mockingbird, but nonetheless it's a hero destroyed.
However, I think the new book, you know, puts a topic no the table that we forever need to be discussing and working on, but we need to be discussing it in, you know, good faith and with good heart and good mind.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I have to say, having read it I don't think it destroys Atticus Finch, I think it deepens him and makes you see a full man.
ROBERTS: Heroes are complicated.
VAN SUSTEREN: Well, this is a fictional one.
ANDERSON: So as somebody who is currently in the process of reading To Kill a Mockingbird for the very first time, I was surprised...
STEPHANOPOULOS: How did you miss that in school?
ANDERSON: We had a choice of different books, and I picked one called Fahrenheit 451 instead and has been living different ever since.
No, so I'm in the middle of reading it. And I was surprised to see the sort of reaction on social media that this character was going to be portrayed in such a different. And my reaction was this would be like if Harry Potter -- there was a different where all of a sudden Hermione was hanging out with the death eaters.
But hearing your perspective I think is really interesting that this is -- this is more representative of the times...
ROBERTS: Absolutely. I think part of what is the movie -- the movie was even more part of our culture than the book.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's right.
ROBERTS: And in the movie, Gregory Peck is fabulous, first of all, but secondly he is Atticus Finch as a complete no complicated hero.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The last word today. Thank you all very much.
Up next, Jimmy Carter reflects on a full life after this from our ABC stations.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we're back now with Jimmy Carter. It is hard to keep up with the former president as he travels the word for the Carter center. And at the age of 90, he's just published his 29th book.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I love the title of your book A Full Life.
JIMMY CARTER, 39TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: It has been a full life.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's about all you can ask for at 90, isn't it?
CARTER: That's true, yes.
STEPHANOPOULOS: With Confederate flags falling in South Carolina across the south, Carter reflects on America's vexed history with race, and how growing up with black (inaudible) in the segregated south, help shape his career.
CARTER: The race issue has been a major factor in my life all the way through.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You had that declaration right after you were elected governor.
CARTER: That's right.
I say to you quite frankly that the time for racial discrimination is over.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And you look back to 1971 and think on the one hand we've come so far, elected an African-American president, but these problems still so persistent.
CARTER: We kind of took it for granted that we eliminated the concept in America that whites were superior in some way to black people and I think we led our guard down.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you surprised that the election of President Obama didn't lead to even more progress on this issue?
CARTER: I think in a strange and I'd say unpleasant way this kind of resurrected some animosity among people who thought that whites should be superior.
STEPHANOPOULOS: No president has lived and served out of office longer than Carter. His work with the Carter Center has redefined what is now an institution: the post-presidency. And while Carter may be retired from politics, he keeps a close watch.
How do you feel about Hillary's chances now?
CARTER: I think she's inevitably going to get the Democratic nomination and of course...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Despite this Bernie Sanders surge?
CARTER: Well, he seems to be doing really well in Iowa and New Hampshire. There won't be any problem with Hillary getting the nomination, because money dominates and she has an inside track to massive amounts that are going to pour into the Democratic Party side.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The presidency just four years out of 90, still the most intense. Seared by the Iranian hostage crisis that dominated Carter's last year and doomed his bid for reelection.
CARTER: It was the worst year of my life, we're having the hostages held by Iran.
Most of my advisers, I would say, wanted me to take military action against Iran. I felt then, and still feel, that if we had attacked Iran they would have responded by killing our hostages.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Although you did tell them that if they harmed a single hostage...
CARTER: I sent word to the Ayatollah Khomenei that if he injured a hostage we would close all access by Iran to the outside world, and if he killed a hostage we would attack militarily. And I meant what I said, and I think he believed it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you don't know for sure why the Ayatollah held the hostages until after..
CARTER: No, I don't.
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...you were out of office. But what does your gut tell you?
CARTER: I don't want to comment on that, you know...
STEPHANOPOULOS: That makes me think you do know.
CARTER: No, I don't really know.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Five minutes after Carter left office, the hostages finally released.
CARTER: I'd say that was probably the most happy moment of my life.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Of your life?
CARTER: Yes, I think it was.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How much do you think about what might have been, what a second term would have looked like?
CARTER: Looking back on it, I wouldn’t change it. The life we’ve had since then, 35 or more years at the Carter Center has opened up a new opportunity for us to serve around 80 countries in the world.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you’ve recently said that you and Rosalynn are prepared in a religious and psychological way for what comes next.
CARTER: Yes, sir.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you get there?
CARTER: Well, it’s hard. I’m not eager to get there. I’ll be 91 in October. My travel capability and my vigor, physical vigor, is going to die down. So the Carter Center is going to be turned over to other people to do and then I’ll have more time with Rosalynn at home and in my woodshop making furniture and painting pictures and looking at birds and -- so we’ll have a nice time in our little hometown of Plains.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Make a full life even more full?
CARTER: Well, I think so. It’s been the best part of my life since I left the White House, but I really have been both gratified and honored and pleased and excited to be the president of a great country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Such a pleasure to talk to President Carter. And we’ll be right back with more from Martha Raddatz in Tehran.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And -- and for our Sunday spotlight, back to Martha Raddatz, who’s reporting this week from what appears to be a new Iran.
RADDATZ: Thanks, George.
The change in Iran in a few short years is striking. When I first started coming here years ago, taping any scene on the street or talking to people about their views was nearly impossible. Not anymore. Yes, we needed a permit. But once we got one, the city opened up to all kinds of surprises.
RADDATZ (voice-over): We have been free to roam the markets, the restaurants, the streets.
RADDATZ (on camera): What kind of music do you listen to?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Pop music. I love it.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I love music. Pop music.
RADDATZ (voice-over): to talk to just about anyone about anything.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: And my telephone is an iPhone. Apple.
RADDATZ (on camera): Let me see your phone.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: OK.
RADDATZ: What do you have?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Jango (ph) (INAUDIBLE) and Facebook (ph).
RADDATZ: What is the one thing you wish would change here?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They (INAUDIBLE). Do whatever (ph) we want. I have problem with the scarf and I have problem with going out. I cannot go out easily.
RADDATZ (voice-over): But if progress is measured by the amount of hair revealed or the color it has become, we noticed a lot of progress on the streets of Tehran.
And there is something else we saw again and again, bandages across the noses of many young women. An observation which led us here.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: My nose is down but now, perfect. I like this.
RADDATZ (on camera): Did it hurt?
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: No.
RADDATZ (voice-over): It’s hard to believe, but conservative Iran is the nose-job capital of the world. Here, having a newly sculpted nose is a status symbol. Dr. Salmon Haj Mohamedi (ph) performs seven surgeries a day.
RADDATZ (on camera): It looks -- the noses that some of them choose look very western.
DR. SALMON HAJ MOHAMEDI (ph): Iranian nose, a little -- a little is a big nose. Not -- not like the European (ph) nose. And, therefore, the Iranian girl likes have a surgery on her nose to get it to beauty.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Across town in a much smaller office, it is not nose-jobs these young Iranians are seeking, but Steve Jobs.
RADDATZ (on camera): Describe where you think Iran is in the tech world?
HAMED ASIDI (ph): The biggest untouched (ph) market in the world.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Hamed Asidi (ph) has big dreams, co-founding a start-up that sells audio books online.
RADDATZ (on camera): (INAUDIBLE), sweaterhouse5 (ph) and --
ASIDI: Steve Jobs.
RADDATZ: Steve Jobs?
RADDATZ: What do -- what do people think of Steve Jobs?
ASIDI: Come on, you know -- you know -- you put a poster of Steve Jobs anywhere, it is the best market ever (ph), you know, that you can imagine.
RADDATZ (voice-over): Especially when you aren’t paying for the book licenses.
RADDATZ (on camera): So you’re making money?
RADDATZ: A lot of money?
RADDATZ (voice-over): And Hamed and his partners are hoping to make more if the sanctions are lifted. But no one expects this country to change dramatically overnight or expects these cultural protests to change the serious issues that have left many people here frustrated and afraid. But for the young people we met, it’s a start.
RADDATZ: Yes, it is a start.
And that is it from Tehran this Sunday while we wait for those historic negotiations, George, to end.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Travel safe, Martha. Martha, thanks for all that.
We want to end with a big welcome to our newest viewer, Anna Brooke Heath (ph), born Friday to our producer Kendall Heath and her husband, Mike. Congratulations to them and big brother Shawn (ph).
Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out “World News Tonight” and I’ll see you tomorrow on “GMA.”