Charles Gibson Interviews David Axelrod, Senior Adviser to the President

Feb. 24, 2009 -- Transcript of Feb. 24, 2009 interview between ABC News World News anchor Charles Gibson and President Obama's Senior Adviser David Axelrod.

CHARLES GIBSON, ABC ANCHOR: David, this is not a State of the Union, but is there going to be some sort of characterization or impression in the president's mind what the state of the union may be?

DAVID AXELROD, SENIOR ADVISER TO THE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think people need a lot of elucidation on what the state of the union is. They know what the state of the union is. They know we've got some difficulties right now.

What they're looking for from the president is a sense of where we go from here, how we change our circumstances, how we reclaim the momentum in our economy and put people back to work and deal with the issues we're facing.

And that's what he's going to use the speech to do.

GIBSON: So is the primary audience -- these are always interesting speeches, is the primary audience in the room, i.e., the Congress? Or is it the country?

AXELROD: Well, obviously it's important to speak to members of Congress. They have to be our partners in this endeavor of lifting the country out of the morass that we're in. But fundamentally this is a chance to speak to the American people, to be direct and open and blunt about where we are and where we need to go.

And I think he wants to take advantage of that opportunity.

GIBSON: So this will be an economic speech?

AXELROD: It largely will, Charlie. These are extraordinary times. The economic challenges we face are as great as any we've seen since World War II and the Depression. And people are concerned and they need to hear from the president about how we address these issues and how we move the country forward.

GIBSON: A president has to worry about macroeconomic issues and about how the country as a whole is doing. People in cities across the country are worried about microeconomic situations, their own job, their own company, their own mortgage, et cetera.

Does he have to link the two?

AXELROD: That's a really great question, because I do think sometimes in all of the banter about where we are in the economy, about banks and Wall Street and car companies and so on, we lose the fundamental impact this has on the American people.

So when you're talking about a credit crisis, you're not talking about -- just about Wall Street, you're talking about the ability of a person to get a loan to buy a house, a car, to send their kid to college, to finance their payroll if they're a small business.

And all of this affects people where they live. And that's what's important here, what's important is to give the American people the best opportunity they can -- they can have.GIBSON: But why do I -- why do I care about -- as an individual in Cleveland or in Cincinnati or wherever, Cheyenne, about the state of Citigroup as opposed to what I may be feeling, or why do I worry about bailing out bankers overall as opposed to where I am?

AXELROD: Well, I think one of the president's tasks tonight is to explain how all of this fits together and how what happens in one part of our economy impacts on what happens to individuals and businesses at -- all throughout the country.

We now have a situation, for example, where our credit markets are locked up. And as a result of that, people -- even people with perfect credit records and businesses with good credit records can't get the capital they need to do the things that they want to do and need to do.

That's where a Citigroup situation or some of the others that we're facing impact directly on the economy and the American people.

GIBSON: But there's anger out there. People are miffed. Why should I have to bail out a guy who is earning a million -- a couple of million dollars a year as a banker in New York when I'm making $50,000 and I'm hurting? Why should I worry about the Titans of Wall Street when my 401(k) may be in trouble?

AXELROD: There is no doubt that there is great anger in the country. People -- most people in this country behave responsibly. They meet their obligations. They pay their loans. They do everything that they're asked. And they can't understand why Wall Street should get treated differently than they get treated.

So there is that anger. But this isn't about helping Wall Street. It's not about helping bankers. It's about restoring our economy. We've taken a big step with the recovery act. We need to free up the credit markets. We need to address the problems with housing. We need to get our budget under control. There are a lot of things we need to do to unleash this economy and get it moving forward again.

And that does affect people all over this country.

GIBSON: Does the president get a sense of that kind of anger? When I watched him travel across the country a couple of weeks ago, people basically are polite to him about what they say.

But we talked last night on the air about the fact that he's reading 10 letters a day from people. Is he getting a sense of that anger? And how do you address it?

AXELROD: I think the single greatest concern the president has in this office is not to become isolated from the American people. And that's why he has asked to read a sampling of letters every day from people.

And they're not edited for happy talk. He gets some pretty tough, hard letters about what's going on in the country. And you address that anger by asking more responsibility and accountability from everyone involved, including the government.

And that's what he is trying to do. He's trying to get a -- move forward with the credit crunch, to solve the credit problems with the banks, asking them act responsibly, imposing accountability, and setting up rules of the road moving forward that will hold everyone accountable.

I think that's all that people want.

GIBSON: Is tone important? How do you impress upon people the severity of the problem and still give them some optimism or hope?

AXELROD: Well, it is -- it's an important balance. I think the president is hopeful about the future. He understands and believes deeply in the underlying strength of this country, the most productive workers, the greatest technology.

We have so many assets here. And yet we have big problems right now. So the key is to convey the sense that there will be a better day, but to tell people the truth about what we're going to need to do to reach it. And that's what he's going to try and do tonight.

GIBSON: Is there a feeling among some of you who advise him that perhaps he has been too grim?

AXELROD: No. I don't think so. I think it was important when we were going through the debate on the economic recovery package to make clear what the consequences of inaction were.

We're faced with a crisis. We need to act. And he made that point. I think once it passed he also talked about the great benefits to our economy that this will produce. So I don't feel that he has been too grim.

But I think you have to strike that balance between being upbeat and optimistic and also realistic about the steps we need to take.

GIBSON: You've had the giant stimulus package. You've had financial stability money, hundreds of billions of dollars that we've talked about. But at the same time, you're talking about taking care of the deficit down the road, you're talking about entitlement reform, education, energy, is there a concern that you're taking on too much too fast?

AXELROD: The question is, can we afford not to take some of these things on, Charlie? We talk about getting the budget under control. You can't get the budget under control unless you do health care reform that reduces the cost of health care.

And the president is going to be talking a little bit about that tonight. And we're going to be talking more about it later this week when he introduces his budget outline. Energy is an enormous drain on this economy and our dependence on foreign oil.

That's something that we have to address. And I don't think anybody doubts that the countries that out-teach us today are going to out-compete us tomorrow. These are major economic challenges.

And his point is, these are things we have to do. There are many things that we'd like to do that we won't be able to do. And we're going to have to make some hard choices. But we've deferred these big issues for a very long time and we're beginning to pay a price for all of them.

GIBSON: David, thank you, appreciate it.

AXELROD: OK.