Why Republicans are happy to stoke culture wars? | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast

Galen Druke speaks with Perry Bacon Jr. about his recent reporting on the ideas that have gained currency on the left — and how the right has responded to them.
46:07 | 03/18/21

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Transcript for Why Republicans are happy to stoke culture wars? | FiveThirtyEight Politics Podcast
Hello and welcome to the 530 politics podcast ideal entry. Today we're gonna focus on the recent left work shift within the Democratic Party particularly on issues involving priests gender and the caught. And how the Republican Party is reacting. There's long been a left wing of the Democratic Party. But it's now larger and more influential than it ever once while presidents Clinton and Obama passed. Most recently reactions to Donald Trump's presidency and the success of Bernie Sanders this campaign have played a part in that growth. But the current progressive movement also has roots in the Occupy Wall Street. And black lies matter movements. And the last ideas are to shaping the policies mainstream politicians but if institutions and businesses as well there's also been a growing backlash on the right against what's referred to as well ideology and and cancel culture. In apparent articles published on the 538 web site this week my colleague Perry bacon junior details the kinds of ideas that have keen currency on the left. And how the race has responded at how all of that could shape our national politics. Perry is here at meet to discuss his reporting so welcome parent they certainly didn't. To start things off what are the ideas that had dean prominence on the left in recent years. So is literally the piece was you have this initial rise of black lives matter and that created a lot of discussion around when he thirteen point portrait of programs and issues of race particularly African Americans how the police treated them but you've seen sort of wrote other ideas the sort of sprang from that matters that you read a lot on. Camp left what are you see in books like and think that effectively is available persons cast and even in the book. Heading into it raises a very popular for these reasons so the idea that I try to look at in the keys were. I'm I'll go at least ten quickly. So one is this idea that America is in some ways kind of a flawed country it's not exceptional Americans never been a true democracy because it's never really allowed him in. Native Americans black Americans full participation in politics. To this idea that white people have advantages in the white privilege. Three the ideas we have some of systemic institutional racism. For the idea that capital of capitalism is what really flawed and the way it works in America today. You know you've heard this idea maybe there shouldn't be any billionaires is that that's what or via the this is that Whitman's ever and systemic sexism. The six is that people should be all of this and David light or not a gender all. Seven is that it. Basically the existence of a disparity. Is evidence of discrimination means you know Google workplace and the only have one black employee of every four people. And that means and that workplace discriminatory even if we can't fine piece of evidence of real where you can hire black person. Eight idea is sort of operations cash corporations for Latin slavery and discrimination. 98 years is a balance at all it's ice and deepen the police the idea that law imports into the ice and the police power. And it inherently. Design teach me people of color and black people negatively. And and those in their for the evening reform disbanded radically changed in the ten idea since that's wrong with that operation. A lot of white conservatives a lot of conservatives. A lot of Republicans have always and it had negative is that people of color incidents trump is almost nothing new in this kind of what the Republican Party has always been. And how did you sympathize it is down into those kind of ten. Discreet ideas so nothing written as a scientific process. But I was really trying that they give out like you know like like a lot of people don't read this how to be an anti racist book review and in the you know them some of the more cynical and Jones. I think it's become public that was different things that I think are. Are in the discs that I think people actually are really talking about seriously and her ideas that. Are impacting our policy lucky sob Biden issued this. Executive orders and Republicans all policies through with neither Exxon systemic racism and reached racial equity is I think that's an eye views of a team from. This idea we have specific reasons other looking for ideas that I don't think. Most I don't think that like you know intersection now the Israelis entered the people are thinking about that elegantly in the policy Disco that was keep things where. There's an idea here that either outlet queens democratic style politician. He is now can put in their platform and I need me only moral and you see Europe I am Presley type and by then but I need. What are ideas that are in the political discourse on the left or that the right is trying to use. Really fight for example there a lot of legislators and trying to sort of ban the teaching of the New York Times 1619 project the ones leave now so the slate received see things that the right is trying to fight or B Handley formally like a lot of states are trying to say. Cities and those things here deep on the police I think it gives her read these funny but please and it gets affected he's ready is that immediate. And now really. Affecting policy business track unit. Depicting real pause and real pulse. Witter these ideas clubs from and in particular why have they grown in popularity over the past five years so. So for example like it's not as if no one has ever talked about reparations before this is like Canadians existed for an early in more than 100 years. That is what you see is there's have been a larger discussion. In political circles. In it has become more relevant for example it looked it up. In for this story Gallup had not hold Gallup poll reparations in 2019. That was the first hand he had done that since 2002. Does not like recruits and existed it was sort of and I in the accident answer them and like sort of like this was not part of the discourse for a while what was then give the poll. The polling firm PRR. Guy. Ask the question along the lines of do you think the Republican party's been taken over by racists and in the they're also told me to there was not a question we ought to ask. You know in 2013 or two dozen interior have you been that long it was a question be about asking before because it wasn't in the discourse before. But you do have ideas like there have been people talking about police. Funding being reduced or someone for a long time but Arabic is Morton new to the sort of mainstream. Political discourse than before. And I think these ideas are coming from academia academia what you like intersection quality that kind of concept. This from academia similar coming from the black lives matter movement is brought critique of capitalism I think teens from in some ways. You warrant in sanders' campaign so it's like. I don't think in the eighty is that is lead out worse particularly let me. Some of them are about transgender. Are sort of Morton because that's an issue in the sort of knew where the political space bit. None of these Keene from nowhere connecting. A lot of these ideas are things we were holding democratic column normally talking about is they wore being really getting. Well anything is they weren't part of the discourse as opposed to be and how do you and things given the discourse because. Activists talk about them Twitter helps them get on the discourse and in Auckland politicians need to talk about them or talked about birds of these ideas for example. Like as the reparations incidents gotten potter. Is being come nation has been this idea in that among Democrats in the house. To do any degree rep British or purchase commission that would study reparations like. The actual demands an activist in the real world is not a study they want reparations under the waiting and get in the politics is now the reparations commission idea that by. His solo quad play endorse. We talked about two different movements curable it sort of the Occupy Movement and the party senators in Warren campaign were part of a critique of capitalism and economic inequality. And that is also the matter movement and more recently torched port protests which are more about racial justice how the two. Interacting with in this movement is this kind of mostly a critique the country deals with race to win accent doesn't economic message play into it. You've had this discussion for a while about polarization. And count how the country is more polarized polarized than parts. I think at some point those those terms to describe something but I think at some point a BB king to be. And almost code words we were we were released we were sort of saying everything polarized nothing we what polarize them out or what we're partisan about what those things. So on inauguration day when Biden said work on civil war I think yet. I think on civil war is more descriptive and tells you these are very tense fight that I finger well I think. Get framing it and I think was helpful to me that think that that is more accurate in terms of how deep and deep set these fights are -- and also sort of how the struggle is not just people are capped tiger's boat and durable they're really fighting over fundamental issues. And in mind you what you're seeing on the left is to some extent like the Democratic Party has always been cannon alcoholic quality focused but I think. They you know they the Sorensen was on the ground and in the Democratic Party. But I think to some extent what you're seeing is the Democratic Party is now also organized around. Economic racial sexual identity ginger like equality. We want to make things more equal was cannibal organizing idea and a lot of bodies for the Democratic Party more than it was like economics in its race. In this class and it's culture but it's all around this kind of equality idea again. Democrats are not new to this but I think it's sort of war if Kennedys and he listened to an alias he warned they're they're like left on racial issues. And on economics and I think that's kind of where the party is going. In in the Republican Party. The Republican Party has always been kind of partied more if indeed horrid racial and economic status quo but I think that's become like the center of the Republican Party now this kind of status quo depends in part because the left to sort of pushing harder I think that's driving some of that. So just who defense and I think gets Tenet and we think it would uncivil war heart I think it's like the Republicans feel like the left is moving aggressively and they error sort of responding in terms subtler more aggressive. Can have. July's Jeter's sixth trying to sub moaning in Georgia that candidates I think that's whereas in other words the Democratic Party is really. Has sorts is easy quality focus and I think at least economics with the Rachel's. Yeah I do want to talk a little bit more about how the Republican Party is reacting to all of this but I wanted to dig in a little bit more to how it is affecting. The ecosystem of Democrats in the last. More probably so when we talk about their views. Elizabeth Warren or mayor's seat. You know we're running about one being of the party how. Widespread are these views amongst DR. So we looked at some polling it depends it is it really has a wide range on the issues like for example. It looks like. Cash reparations at least in some polling have seen is gentle point where it's like forty. Sometimes are cloned from Gallup showed 49. Yes even between up erred in half. Democrats support cancer operations and that was much bigger than it was into you know. In using it was like and teens generally so that's when he's worth expletive. When you look at like police funny you're do you think you ask this question. Last year down 40% of Democrats think police funding should be reduced that's eating close. Hat. There was you know ALC I think if he said a couple years ago or some Democrats and every billionaires policy failure Canadian engineer and union able to accumulate a billion dollars that the idea that's like. In the thirties among Democrats. The idea of the Republican Party to take in over a racist is like shared by 78 person close to seven Democrats. On the atx a lot that's a lot more difficult to be black compared being white America 70% to you have some of these things. The sort of racial ideas particularly. Are to the point where the Arab majority and Democrats generally reparations in different so some of these things are quite popular the idea that it's hard you know the idea this other original ideas the country does not treat black people will is a very popular anti. Reparations. Among Democrats are. Reparations themselves about happen let's pop these sort of wealth inequality ideas the pins and I asked them. Police funding generally unpopular among Democrats the reason is money on apartment Democrats so. There is arranged I think in general talking about views. This sort of neo CU wing does whole. Then the by and we depends on how you think about it until the case I was making an essentially. These are used that are nuts. Becoming the case you know the democratic party's point of view but there are affecting the Democratic Party in the democratic party's president meet these views Kenneth. A quarter or half way. How much has opinion on these things changed over the past five years or so. At amongst whom like well who are the actual people within the Democratic Party to pull its. So if you look at the questions like reparations. For example where Gallup had a poll August Gail and polls well. But he went from 25 in 2002 to 49 as the night. And what you journalists on those polls was the black Democrats generally forward for reparations and hasn't suit there's a growing number of white Democrats of reparations. Other polling have seen suggests younger Democrats and more Liberal Democrats are typically more supportable or at least that's much. When you get this question and it's a lot more difficult to be a black person and a white person America. Hugh did this question in 2016. The number then was 57%. The number then this now it's 74%. Eyewitness and I am not that in look at the cross tabs on that generally questions like that show. The black people had his views already and it Bentley College educated white Democrats are moving toward his views. As well. Let's see there are more than 2 June dreaded these. We only had this question from the from the recently but this generally. This 52% of Democrats. And 40% of Americans and I think only 20% of Republicans think there can mean more than team. Gender I Kennedy's death again one right where the more Liberal Democrats Malone would think so. So that so there's some as a police funding. Is is at 41%. Younger and black Democrats are more likely to supports. Reducing police funding and older Democrats and white. You mentioned that these ideas are not necessarily the dominant ones within the party they're not necessarily Biden administration policy but nonetheless they are cheap being. Mainstream policy within the party what are some. Examples of that maybe in terms of what Biden has already done as president or hockey campaigned. So also mentioned earlier that they mean that they announced this executive order on recently when he invited senate races but I don't think they would to I think it's something that the measures as very focused on for example making sure the vaccine. Access is a global as they keep their very bogus and that is there great lessons I view that they should be recently. And I think Obama in Baghdad but I'm saying on day one bite at an executive order saying one of our focuses. Is on racial equality and so. This is an obvious example the second is like I would say if you look at like. Biden is never going to saying I'm going to abolish ice they're certainly trying to meet ice ice different than to try let me get less harsh. And I think. Part of that he abolished ice movement. Did not succeeding eating buying to before dad but he's definitely open tune changes reforming. A yes hardness of the pain in the did Biden runs you independently of them but I think it's clear that. Did the ice abolished I would create a discussion in the party dissident affected some conduct there. Let's and so those of the two that is I've used to me I mention if you look at a lot of cities around the country. You see that nobody is saying we're gonna defund the policeman does a lot of talk about re allocating funds moving bonds of services. Like the Washington Post this needs. Had to be feature about we need to re imagined public safety that was nothing in the Washington Post editorialized about. Two years and I think that scene from. A you know we're not certain that either post me now is we're not sure that he funding is right we need to re imagine. This in a lot of ways another word being that put the stimulus bill. I'm unlike. Economic policy in the Clinton and Obama years the stimulus bill you need money to people directly listening injury gains in pain on. On the stimulus bill was kind of disregard of gagging in the deficit and really focused on like. Giving people a lot of money it's sort of with a bill. Did it in it was a you know I'd I if you ask me who's gonna signing one point nine trillion dollar bill that gives people money directly. I would of the Canas who ran president means when he I would not named Joseph Biden at least early. But I think it's pretty clear that those ideas candidate get these sort of like he's Harold warrants staff and those ideas that get in the mainstream part. Bread and of course I didn't matches earlier by the pet direct yes or play a larger role in. Kind of reshaping the Democratic Party in terms of policy. You do see right now that there is a sort of tension over the Biden administration's policies at the border where the left flank of the party is an already frustrated with how some migrants to children are being treated. You know the Biden administration has basically asking for times and it reorganize. The immigration enforcement system and sought. How do you see the relationship between Biden and the left flank of the party plane how. Over the next four years is this. A tense relationship and in so far the left seems happy with the American rescue plan let you know. When the two parked of the party disagree who wins. I mean by the charts and also as I noted in these in the article a lot of these views are nuts like a lot of abuse I'm talking about like. We shouldn't have billionaires these are minority views in the Democratic Party so there really minority views in the country so. Ultimately buy it and not only is president but he's Indian clothes he can say in many cases. He's now analytical lifts view is not argue that were in charge. But also the list view is not with a majority of Americans are in for electability purposes need to be the majority of Americans are possible is gonna lose. Most of these arguments is when people Liz left ideally well Jackson well legacies of popular. The idea that we shouldn't have billionaires are the idea that whichever reparations he nevertheless is that we in these debates. In fool and I could get their policy my guess is really. But can we get a reparations commission that's a different question anything that gets the point where Biden me he was way to say yes or. Media I think Gavin Newsom recently that might do worse maybe even less babies and more populous figures the some of these things happen in states as well I think right now. You know Biden's chief of staff Ron plain. Is on Twitter like he's the news he's the new Donald Trump in terms of Tweety and his administrative he's on Twitter. He tweets like yeah also seems be courting the left in other ways like as we speak today. Winds today when he met with GI hall who's the lead examples progressive caucus on the hill. And rock has a lot of outreach he's Ritson where this week that he talks the sand is regularly in the phone it's I think the idea is. For the Biden team regulars ringed the left in the tents. Let's hear them now. Let's let them criticize us in private hopefully we're nobody else's and criticizes the public sentiment idea is to Kenny unify the party. And sort of like keep those tensions as low as possible president when the brass tacks he has. They're going to be issues and the immigration is one. Where the left position is not going to be something Biden can bide about it think they're gonna tried so that saw in those differences much as possible. You mention. A lot of these ideas are not electorally viable and Democrats probably won't try to win national elections are running on them are there are some ideas here that are. And in particular I do you want to key in on the American rescue partner because it is broadly popular. And it gives as you mentioned taps directly to either tax credits that are actually paid by the federal government or direct payments themselves. Two a lot of people Andy when you look at the breakdown a lot of this money is going to pour whites court in large part in a different part in the Republican Party. Is this seen as an actual way to bring. Republicans. Poor whites in particular. Do they think that's possible elect orally or is this just like. We probably is this an ideological belief which is that like poverty is bad we want to reduce it by we don't actually think these people are average. The economic populism. You know people money so long is good policy and also good politics in the rescue plan has as we you talked about a lot of us like yes. Holes in the seventies and ends in the eighties the giving people money directly extremely popular. Slightly troubling too so I think he can make parts of this the sort of like. I don't think you can get a lot of voters are gonna see capitalism is bay. I think that's not in whole or album boaters I think Americans tend to think billionaires are good Smart people there so Bill Gates it's a good Smart a Smart person. And yet there's some evidence that bizarre but I think if you get beyond the sort of we should change our campus and to what these policies underlying them are we should tax the will be more we see give more people money directly we should create more. Public job import infrastructure the Eagan. But policy ideas of the left are actually fairly popular. And they're actually popular with Biden to Biden is not necessarily an ideological centrist he's sort of shape take to check in certain. Here is popular as I think this is yum. The tray inside you know treating strands people equally is very popular it's like you know Americans don't tend to light. The idea that people's gives ingredients like most people honestly know. A trans person in America are they in they mean you know but they still. Are wary of treating dual Bentley the idea that women and minorities. Into the that the police in other parts of America yet the police in part of treating black people better his exit fairly popular too. On don't separate children from their families is very populous it was even on sort of racial issues. The Democrats are populace will double the building most well positioned usually. Isn't that popular but I think it like if you look at. Biden is actually extremely savvy about you know what's popular is mind precedent like. I don't think we should folk we should focus on systemic racism is a view that acting. He's probably a majority view in the country and I think that I think yes I'll hold it back in an executive order. We I was listening racism. And address that is a majority view we should give reparations is not an act and oldest two are related but you can probably get to a position where you're saying wanted to act together so. Again the left is not necessarily ultimately is aware that he liked the look was are aware that they lost the Ratner and Biden want it so I think they're aware that they get there is some. Rethinking on the left no doubt. In the left as a broad people that includes a lot of different contingencies but there is reaping in the Lipton. Heather me yeah it's called ensemble also moments noble hasn't lifted up at book and her argument is basic mean. The way probably have to sort of succeed in these economic populism is to talk about ideas that affects everybody even even some. Like you'd like into backed the idea that she cuts but it's like when you pass a law that makes it harder to vote. That might make it harder for black people to vote but it may also almost inevitably will make it harder for white people to vote to into the way to sort of make diesel you can see the leftists or the trying to. Make their arguments more. This issue dates black people or Hispanics. Disproportionately. But it also fixed by people obviously giving checks to people who region which enables Porter does it help. Black and Latino people more of the ten have less income but also help white people who you seeing that sort of synergy was wiping it. The Eaton left vs center fights are going to be less tense because Biden is trying to. Have a unified party in the leftists trying to be a little more electoral upset. You talked about a lot of ideas that are gaining traction within the last which of the Democratic Party and how they are reverberating and reacting to the larger party. But of course there's another party here and so. Brit large Powell is the right reacting to these ascendant ideas that you. So these ideas that are really opposed on the right like you know like the right is divided unlike the minimum wage Rowland a Republican voters were raised the minimum wage that the politicians and Republican. But we talk about ideas that report here reparations. Did that America is not exceptional in the nation this model for others were talking about this idea this really hard black in America. You wouldn't talk about. These ideas are incredibly unpopular. In the Republican Party. And so there and they and therefore there's an accident the Republican Party to elevate his ideas to. And if they Jill Biden believes in these things because these things are often very unpopular in originally in terms of having a negative view of capitalism. That's 44%. Of Democrats this thirty cubes of Americans yes 20% of Republicans. Only it's every billionaires a policy failure missed when he percent of Republicans. It's a lot more difficult be a black person America 9% Republicans. Police funding should be read reviews 8% Republicans. Asked reparation of black Americans 5% of Republicans. White people benefited re do you and his black. 5% Republican so and also lot of these views are not supported by a majority of people can't corporations now popular. Police funding is not very popular so a lot of ideas that are armored in the left our. Unify the Republican Party and input and put the Republican Party with the majority elect. Bright divide the Democratic Party which is you know important electoral tactic as you start the keys. This dynamic. Planet Robbie speech gain. Is one that we've seen played out. In seventies and over decades right the Democratic Party has April pushing the country on social and cultural issues and the Republican Party has played a role pushing back. And sometimes the you know the laughed wins. And their social movement becomes probably accepted by society and sometimes it doesn't. What's new or different about this moment when we think of it in that water restore clocked. So it looked like an issue like gay marriage and 2004. People push for same sex marriage to sort the Republican's campaign against. Sun and sun in its June 8 American man and a woman he looks like in 2004 that's a bad as you've and the Democrats. They've put social social issues in its one democratic activists pushed him. And that became an issue John Kerry was sort of natural to say. Bush was strongly opposed he didn't seem to help the American people proved that killed John cure any imminent loss anyway but that was published. Fast forward to today in a same sex marriages numbers are not universal and obviously a majority position fairly popular Hart who opposed the recent. So that's kind of where acting system would go that way. On the other hand like you notes busing for school integration. Was an idea that was sort of more popular on the left it never became the majority are you never know so. What I think is different about these issues is no real Leigh. The issue is not that different in that we have the Democratic Party isn't pushing these sort of more equality minded. Scenes positions representing. Canada disadvantaged groups and the Republicans are opposing that in some ways like I think this is like nothing new accounts of local like. Tropical saint law and order when the doors police reform attempts this year that happened in the sixties and seventies when Nixon is well. What's really different is that the issues we're talking about it seems like. We were talking about transgender Americans and two dozen sports and it's a different room talking about. We warmly to document preparation of the two doesn't force a different issue we're talking about the idea that billionaires are which is an accident in. Landscape in 2004 evenly in two dozen sixteenth. And so. I instant it looked to it was a different one is that the issues themselves obviously where and when he when he wants is an imminent and hasn't for. See is that the Republican Party. In the country here different when I say that really the country is much more. Racially diverse also more divorce among its own sexual identity. On. On gender issues like the country's rivers as more pockets of the problems women face for example. On their war he mud pies this transgendered game there are more people who were world Tino and easy victims of the country's different. And so what I was getting into in the peace saloon is. The Republican Party. It has some incentive to nuts. EU cannot openly again some of these equality clauses which leads him. Implications of phrases like walk in canceled culture which captures some real phenomenon also eat as much as much it is say. I don't want people to be can't soul. And I don't want to use the Wright pro even though rothmans of those issues are often sort of circulating in the same. Still exists. Yet you know as far as the right is concerned what do the terms. Woke at temple culture meet. And I know you said right there vent their baby intentionally a little bit me. But what it you know if you how to define that as far as the greatest concern how what you. So wool on the right is cannon the idea that type of these left wing ideas. The heads. Are really trying to push us too far on these Kennedy quality dances like yet to call everyone you know the idea that we have to really except transgendered people. On whatever sports team they wanna be in every way possible the idea you know ginger is more than their two more than two genders. The idea that obviously it's clear that black people. Suburbs suburbs formation. And that white people have proved it today you know these things are not contest like reparations is like an idea that they it is an in the wolf a lot of ideas around race. And economic following the people right electrical and went too far. And then when you talk about cancel culture we're usually talking about is on the right now on the podium in the incident in two days on the right we're using talking about is. If I criticize this idea. The left in the court in the criticism I get back is excessive and to our. In it he easily. I sort of peels socially canceled doesn't like I get all this criticism rained down on me and all the begins or races sexes. And occasionally actually canceled as in my Twitter your count as a boom Mike Donald Trump or I or my book deal is canceled as weapons and well there's actually is or my invitation is economic campus. He is is his revoked. And I see no hear that some of these things there are some people like Obama has talked about sort of is concerned about the canceling. Speakers on college campuses so some of this is like there is a real debated out like which we have changing social mores in the country. And what should be done it you don't have to conform to what should be the punishment if you don't form doesn't think that's abroad to be happening. On the bachelor or edit happening in a variety of ways on the right. Often what's going on in his life. Josh holly is not just talking bell. Views he's also talking about people canceled be. And my book deal after I supported the insurrection. And I think that's a different thing where you were that's like he's sort of taking that term to mean anything we always have always head. Punishment than people think you go over the line like Twitter removed trial because they perceive him as inciting insurrection that's a different issue than and that sort of like. These sort of used to eat anybody's intent to the united criticizes me. Is canceled altered definitely get in the sort of what's happening on the right a little it is like a broad days. Criticism that his V incident used to sort of solve all. Signs they. Answer it somebody needs. Dick typical to means different things to different people people it's always. It was as it is in some ways it's a tool right to basically say you know if you critters even if the things but I do. Are unpopular with the broader public if you criticize me your canceling. Where is it also has a meaning. For the broader public which is like. You know someone does something or says something insensitive in the public square and faces a backlash demanded it be known quantity they lose their job whatever they are dis invited to speak. Well you know I guess it's complicated because it means different things different people how does the public more broadly you. The idea of a culture and and baucus. All the polling asking its own one like a larger people don't know what cancer culture Sunday in and so like 3040%. But when he said explain it to them generally people are close to cancel calls with not surprising. Cancel it in some ways. Political correctness is also doesn't poll well because it seems you know it seems like were imposing norms on people that seems silly so we use that raise. Cancel culture that's sort of unpopular people they ball on the right animal left is probably pop when you get to examples of should this person be fired it sort of becomes theory like. If someone uses the N word public most people bed and they get fired that would be yet sort of a cancellation I would assume. But I think most people support depends on so that is you that it becomes very context dependent whether people support the underlying action but yet but people do not think the idea but this market you're running. But invoking this idea that these wolf people are canceling everyone is actually pretty Smart tactic is cancel cultures is as the phrase and. Yeah I mean what are the politics. Of this is this the climbing. Sort of policy agenda like Arthur policies that can be. Enacted around opposing. Brokers and cancel Coulter. And how are they seems somewhat will be driven like it doesn't seem like those are necessarily a grass roots movement against. Tampa Coulter I Cyril block about it a lot on Fox News from politicians. But you don't elected Tea Party style movement. You know. Actor beating against it so. I guess 11 of the policies that some from nests and two I was was used in politics. The public this are for example you're seeing that. I think Ron Desantis in May be in Texas Abbot as well there's a there's a lot of initiatives along the lines. We want to defying. Punish or at use social media companies who throw people off better platforms like this clearly like you. Clearly saying that. Twitter FaceBook should not take conservatives often you see a lot of proposals like that. Using your calls and states to be and the teaching corporate critical race theory in the 1690 project you're seeing policies to stop. To stop the deepening of the police Sosa business. Why everybody's talking years and it's and it goes appointing him but I think. The sort of main focus of the sites of the cancel culture idea is to sort of justify. These sort of taking on the left in this sort of racial and Internet weigh in terms of conversation I completely I think that. Idea to social media companies had to be able to remove people from their platforms for any reason. That sort of a real growth of you should now be able to cancel us and there or here's a policy. They come from that notions of that I am pleased to see Republican governors it was is really focus on that aspect that's and that's kind of how it plays in terms of pulse. In terms of politics he saw it like C pac the first big unions. For the Republican Party post trial was the sort of headline that conference was America on teens. And what I think it plays out in the Republican Party is canceled culture's become is brought being. It means from working ending the police. Two were defending trough from being beaned by Twitter to where we're defending against the Democrats trying to talk about race too much. We're defending against Democrats trying to make shrines gender isn't kind of universal so. It's it to the politics is sort of like all encompassing. On some levels I think EC incident. If it's a phrase you can use to almost a ten. And sort of defeat and let a lot of conservative ideas you've seen it play out is there it's a re at that it'll beat idea itself. But I think the Republicans are sort. Saying. We hear defending unions cancel culture as a way to motive I think the base doesn't know what they're talking about Sarah Huckabee launched her surrogate he Sanders tropical Press Secretary launched her campaign the Arkansas governor. I think I thought the people who tried to cancel Meehan and do that I think it. Cancel Coulter is becoming a means of saying. I'm going to fight against the so overly powerful left I think dad and I think that's in it he militantly phrase right in the I think people are gonna gradually getting what they're talking. So I'd ask this question a couple times office podcasts. Via computers for her perspective as well. You know this is very clearly the culture war of the twenty point is essentially. Column. When we look at history what we look at the specifics out today. Do culture wars usually trump issues like. Taxes infrastructure health care things like that would. Applying this to electoral politics like blink we didn't we were talking about how it works within the Democratic Party. Do voters care more about these kinds of things. Because of her sick Karen you know. These cultural wars hadn't inspire credit visceral feelings amongst people on we've seen it for our history. Does it trumped the kind of like bread and butter issues that the Biden administration really tries to tries seems to be trying to focus. I think this question is probably yes and so historically the Republican party's policies economic policy news have been in public like this idea index reaches never popular but the ideas that word ending. The status quo we're in the unions minorities yes it to be right to death that's historically. The problem artists of the campaign and he's sort of backlash TVs equality things along and it's often been successful. I would say and 28 when he it's like. Into in this in this whole process we've been talking about a lot like the Latino shift toward strong and has the complicated story but I think part of it is like you know. Trump campaign from all four years of a cultural conservative isn't in net means defending the police defending against sort of like. You know sort of woke ideas and a variety of ways and I think those sort of pull ideas of America has a lot of Americans are culturally conservative. And that's those that about they term it intentionally made it you poll a lot of black and Latino voters them about do you support the police being funny because they don't support either still in some ways like. Focusing you know sort of focusing on the sort of cultural lines socialism to you believe in America is America a great place. Do you believe in. Billionaires do you think racism is a big issue would you talk about recent the malign and focus on racial divides. Those things are not as popular as let's increase them waits I think that is true. That if you do but I if you talk about these sort of culture alive he's he's alive. That probably has more advantageous to the Republicans. And talking only about economic issues but in reality like. In some ways like because the country is vital issues because Fox News spoke with these issues. There's no way for Biden get around them into the couple left for that matter. Cares about some of these recent lies he sees him as no way. Together around affected yet I mean there's no we get round the affected. I didn't Indian culture. So that'd help our politics you know from the beginning and so look alike slavery. You know it was an identity politics is you days of the civil. That's the only way but I think you've got to thinking you know realm these things but independence of the county playing out like it looks to me like the democratic party's trying to figure out. Had a we have been message that. Talks about reached allies issues in an inclusive way that idea being like. Giving people 14100. Dollars addresses economic concerns and also might help with systemic racism that's kind of Biden is trying to. And the Republicans are trying to do basically Biden is obsessed with talking about race all the time to the exclusion of helping you want she line next that might work to. The answers exquisitely complicated because. It's not is people have been there in an economic economic issues and racism that was sort of intertwined. What long had an easy book meets went and which is like. Latinos in Texas became war. We areas Medicaid reform. When Medicaid reform was defined as something to help her Medicaid expansion. When indicates it was defined as something to help or. You know it's like you know when sort of in. Once or when you get when he sees us and racial lies and sort of cast is this helps. Mean people perceived don't work is hard to office or attacked Obama for black people particularly. In America today and it becomes like it is economic issue becomes race allies which often happens then guess what I'm that we can't withdraw this clean line between economics and culture even though if they're Democrats never said he found police have always said in an inmate makes they'll be good bit. Most issues have an economic enemy down cultural and the percent. Wrapping up their due wrote in your piece that for now it seems like the well are winning. Do you think that they're likely to be successful. That this movement on the left is likely to be successful long term. It's hard from need to look at what we're seeing now and how the Democratic Party has changed. In terms mean more quality focus and think dance. Com it's gonna go backward because a lot of these things did these activists and so on saying our. Candlelight if you look at that if you look at the evidence pretty carefully it's like heart. A its heart is justified the income inequality between. White and black Americans without talking about Jim Crow slavery to things like this wine in the into. It's even if your actual views of black people have less money because they're lazy. We're getting into a culture where you probably can't say that out flat out in the end a way that you couldn't like twenty years ago or implied in and therefore it's hard to win an argument when you're sort of saying. People shouldn't be too woke as opposed it was actually this is like so I think. These ideas are getting yet more popular in liberal circles and I think you're gonna see more and wore tennis CDs. There are gonna defund the police that there but I think when an argument becomes should we have more police funding more funding for mental health. I think mental health is gonna win tin and a ten times and and justice and get a huge crime accepting these ideas are going to be of them left. I think they're so unpopular on the right. That I don't know what happens they give you live in Georgia I don't know would have as a swing state like debts and he's at his gonna become more popular. In cities run by Democrats they'll be done by the by administration. I think that they won't give more Koppel on the ride in the mean these sort of overturned by president Tom cotton infect so you think about. We live in two Americas which I think is increasingly the case. They can sort of blue America these ideas are going sudden. And red America they will now move at all. And therefore in America America depends who's in charge aren't bullets leave it tactics offered thanks. And you can check out bowls of Perry's pieces describing the descendants of these ideas on the laughed and some of the backlash on the right art pretty calm. They're great read suggests that everyone could do that. My name is dealing dream tourney challenge in the virtual control room cleared editor Curtis is on audio editing. You get in touch like emailing us at podcast at 530 dot com you can also of course greeted us with any questions or comments. If your fan of the show beavers are reading a review apple podcast or or tell someone about us thanks for listening and policies.

This transcript has been automatically generated and may not be 100% accurate.

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