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Secretary Granholm, welcome to New York City.
We're here to talk about electric vehicles,
a hot topic in Washington and across the country.
So let's start with range anxiety,
a real concern for drivers who are new to this technology.
How do we solve this problem?
Is it building vehicles with more than 300 miles of range?
Or is it putting charging stations in every town
and on every highway?
It's both, actually.
So the range anxiety issue--
and I totally get this.
I mean, who wants to buy a car if you can't fill
it up in whatever way, right?
So that's why the Biden administration
has put $7.5 billion into building out these charging
stations in places where the private sector is
not already going.
We've got about 170,000 charging stations across America
right now.
They're adding about 900 per week.
The goal is with the money that has come from the President's
agenda to get to six-- we think we're going to get to 500,000
by 2026, and more after that.
I think it's important for people
to know, though, that if they have a garage,
they have a charging station, this plug it in at home.
And I think a lot of times people
who are considering buying EVs aren't
aware that that is an option.
We're going to talk about home-charging in a minute.
But according to JD Power-- this is a recent survey--
skepticism about public charging availability
is the primary reason consumers reject EVs.
You personally experienced some charging difficulties
this summer on your EV roadshow.
The Department of Transportation recently
said it was going to grant $149 million
to repair or replace non-operational EV chargers.
So what are you, what is the Department
doing to hold private charging companies
accountable for these offline and broken chargers?
Yeah, first of all, that funding goes to states to make
sure they identify which chargers
are out and put in ones that work.
And all the funding from the federal government
has to go to 97% effectiveness of these chargers.
We do not want to see having spent all the money to install
a charger and the frustration of EV owners
who might go to a charger, and it not be working.
Now, let me just say this, we are trying
to fill in all of these gaps.
And we know that right now there aren't enough
chargers in the United States.
And the whole goal of the President
was to add 500,000 charging just from the public money in places
where we don't already have them.
And it also means replacing those chargers that don't work.
But if you are able to park along a street,
and pull down a charger from a lamppost, and plug it in,
if you don't have other options, if you're
able to just go to a Walmart, and plug-in, and go shopping,
and come out, and have it be-- you can imagine
that the accessibility of chargers
will be more abundant than if you drive a gas-powered vehicle
and have to find a gas station.
If you can charge in convenient places at a library, at a park,
you will see I think this range anxiety issue drop.
But I understand that it's there right now.
And that's why we're working very fast to get
these chargers out right now.
And what type of chargers are we talking about?
Are they level two?
Or are they level three?
The big chargers, of course, along the freeway,
we want them to be high speed chargers.
And we want people to know that because of the federal funding,
they will be every 50 miles, not more
than one mile off of the freeway,
or a transportation corridor.
We are very focused on fast charging so
that people feel comfortable.
We're also-- I must say, kudos to those entities
in the private sector who are oil and gas industry who are
actually putting electric vehicle charging stations
at the gas stations now, because they
see that as an opportunity, especially
if they've got a snack store.
They make a lot of money-- the gas station owners,
through the snack store.
And if you're charging, you might spend a little bit
of time in the snack store while it's charging to be able to get
whatever Kit-Kats you need.
So the White House also said it
would provide a tax credit to help reduce
the cost of home chargers.
Yeah.
So what is the White House doing to help Americans who
want an EV, but don't own their own home,
or live in urban areas like New York City?
Right.
So first of all, this is why the funding
for charging in places along the street is very important.
The funding for putting charging near or at
multifamily dwellings, apartments, et cetera,
is very important.
And then, of course, the funding to put
charging where people normally spend a little bit of time.
So whether it's at rest stops, or stores, or parks,
or anything like that, we want charging
to be more accessible than what it would be if you
had to go fill up your tank.
And let's just say, if you have to fill up your tank,
you're not filling that up at home.
And if you can fill up your car at home,
that's a convenience that we want people to enjoy.
So I talked to a lot of consumers.
And people are skeptical about EVs.
They're worried that they have to go to a public charging
station, and it's going to take four to six hours to get
maybe 100 miles of range.
If they don't have a high speed charger,
it's going to take more time.
And that's why we want to get more of these high speed
chargers out across the country.
I'll say that too, it's important
if you buy an electric vehicle, you get an app,
and you are connected to the charging network
so that you can see where are charging stations available,
where are they online and working.
That is an important feature of ease,
and accessibility, and taking down that worry.
So which pockets of the country
need these chargers most?
Obviously, not California.
Right.
Well, California's got a plan.
In fact, all 50 states have a plan
for installing EV chargers based upon the President's funding.
But the plan is to fill up the gaps.
So there's a lot of states that where there
isn't a lot of EVs at all.
And so those states have a plan too.
And their plan has been approved.
And they've gotten their funding to be able to build
out these EV chargers.
We're particularly concerned about those travel corridors.
And we're particularly concerned about rural areas
where there not a lot of EVs, and urban areas where people
can't afford an EV, or where there just isn't a big uptake,
where there's a lot of apartment buildings as you noted,
a lot of street parking.
So those gaps are the gaps that this funding
from the National Electric Vehicle Initiative
is attempting to fill.
And people are going to really start
seeing this year in particular, these EV
charging stations pop up in places
that they have not been before.
And from these charging stations,
they're going to be from companies like EVgo,
ChargePoint, Electrify America.
Yeah, every state is going to have
to figure out who is going to be their provider
of charging the state.
The money went to the United States.
The states have the plan.
They've started to put out solicitations
now for who's going to actually be building those
charging stations and installing them.
OK.
So President Biden has said that he likes
electric vehicles to make up at least 50% of new vehicle sales
by 2030.
Last year, EVs accounted for 7% of the US market.
How is the administration going to accomplish
this goal in six years?
Well, I mean, last year, the sales were 1.4 million,
which is-- which was--
- That was a record for EVs. - Right.
It was a record.
And it was 50% more than the year before.
Last year, I think was really sort of the EV revolution
launched across America.
This year, you're going to see it spread all across.
I mean, honestly, I think it's not
about what the President says.
It's about what people who buy an EV say.
The satisfaction rate of EV owners is through the roof.
Like, 95% people who would have driven an EV
and won't go back, because it's so much better.
It's so much cheaper to operate.
I mean, if you fill up your average gas tank today,
average car, it's about $49.
If you charge and go that same distance, it's about $15.
I mean, that's a huge-- if you fill up every week,
that is a huge savings for your average citizen.
So just on the savings of operating an EV alone,
now, they've become more affordable.
And we can talk about that.
They're not fully affordable yet I fully recognize.
But the price is coming down significantly.
And to drive them themselves, I mean,
it's a huge piece of technology on wheels.
And they're fun to drive.
So I think that as people decide to replace their vehicles,
EVs will become something that more people
will look at once they've heard their neighbors say,
you know what?
This is really great.
We're going to talk about prices.
But you have driven many EVs, longtime EV owners.
So when people stop you and say, what's
your experience like in the Bolt or the Mach-E,
what do you tell them?
Oh, I tell them, I love it.
I love it.
My Chevy Bolt, a great car.
I just love this car.
And it was so cheap to operate.
Now, I also lease solar panels.
And so I was just driving my Chevy Bolt on sunshine.
But that was because I had a garage and I could do that.
Not everybody can do that.
I totally understand that.
But even going to a charging station
and filling up even with a fast charger
is so much cheaper than operating.
And the beauty about--
I love this personally-- that these vehicles are so quiet.
Even with a Chevy Bolt, which was not a luxury vehicle,
it's your basic vehicle, the quietness of it
makes it feel sort of like a luxury vehicle,
like, you'd be inside of a Cadillac or something like that
because it was so quiet.
And have you experienced any of these charging anxieties
that many Americans have? - Oh, sure.
I have.
And not necessarily in my personal vehicles.
We did a road trip earlier this year.
We'll be taking electric vehicles on this road trip.
We had difficulty accessing charging in the South
where there wasn't enough charging stations.
That goes to the point of us really accelerating
the build-out of these charging stations,
especially in places where they are not.
But for me, my cars, because I do have a garage,
I can just plug-in in the garage.
I don't even have a charging station.
A lot of people don't realize if you have a plug in your garage,
you can just charge up your car there.
And that makes it just super convenient.
I never have to go to a gas station.
All right.
OK, so the Inflation Reduction Act,
that drastically reduced the number of EVs
and plug-in hybrids that were eligible for the federal tax
credit.
As of right now, there are just three models that qualify
for the full $7,500 tax credit.
And the average price paid for a new EV last year
was nearly $51,000.
So how can middle and low income Americans afford an EV
when they're already so expensive
and so few meet the revised federal tax
credit requirements?
A couple of points on this, one,
is so the federal tax credit is $7,500.
The reason why the number reduced the types of models
available reduces because we also want these vehicles
to be made in America.
And so there's a made in America provision
tells you that there is a great opportunity
to bring back manufacturing to this country
so that people can qualify for a fully American made vehicle.
And that is actually what's happening.
So we see now all of the buildout of these EV companies,
of battery companies for the EV.
It is so exciting, the manufacturing
revolution that has been triggered by the incentives
associated with it.
So right now, yes, there are fewer models,
because they're not fully being built.
But there will be many more EV models available
this year, next year.
So that's number one.
And number two, you can get an EV tax credit
for a used electric vehicle as well,
which is $4,000 off of the top.
The dealers have all registered now
to take the tax credit at the dealership,
which is very, very important.
You can lease an electric vehicle,
and in that, you don't need to have it all made in America.
It's a question about whether that's a loophole or not.
But that's the fact, is that if you lease,
you can still qualify.
And there are so many states have tax credits on top
of the federal tax credit.
So if you bought a car in Maine, for example,
you'd have the $7,500 tax credit,
and you would have another $7,500, so $15,000.
I mean, last year, the low end Bolt was less than $30,000.
If you have $15,000 off from state and federal tax credits,
you're now financing a $15,000 car,
that is totally affordable.
So there are options.
And many of these tax credits are all income dependent too.
So these are geared toward lower end,
middle, and lower end folks.
Do you know why the administration didn't
push off the date for all these requirements to go into effect?
Why not wait until 2026 or 2027 so more
automakers could qualify?
Yeah, I think there--
the law was written in a way that there wasn't that option.
And that law, the Inflation Reduction Act
was negotiated heavily.
But it also forces investment in the United States.
And as a result of forcing investment in the United
States, there's a whole other side benefit, which
is jobs all across the country.
345 companies have announced they are building batteries,
expanding batteries, and electric vehicle
factories in the United States.
That's a significant benefit.
So one interesting trend that has
developed recently in the auto industry
is that everyone wants a hybrid.
You cannot find a hybrid vehicle on lots now.
So do you think we could give hybrids tax credits too to get
even more people to buy them?
So plug-in hybrids are eligible for the tax credit.
But hybrids without the plug-in are not.
And it's a good question about whether there
should be credit extended.
The whole point is to get more efficient,
reduce dependency on fossil fuels
and on oil, and on expensive gas.
And so electrification in general of your vehicle
is a great goal that the administration
has as well, as I hope that a lot of people have.
So Ford and GM have both pulled
back on their EV targets.
Production of the Silverado EV for example,
was moved to late 2025.
Ford said it was scaling back plans for an EV
battery plant in Michigan.
You're the former Governor of the state.
Also, Ford has said that demand for its F-150 lightning truck
is slowing.
What's your reaction to all of these announcements?
Well, I mean, first of all, they may have over-projected
where things were going to be.
But this movement toward electrification I think
is inexorable.
It is happening.
I mean, if you just look at the 50% increase year-over-year
last year in EV uptake.
So they will tell you, the automaker, CEOs will tell you
they're not pulling back or reversing
trend in their investments.
They may be slowing a little bit.
But honestly, I think this is--
it's a snowball that's going downhill that is
only going to accelerate.
And you know, again, you're a two-term Governor of Michigan.
You're well aware that Americans love large SUVs, large trucks,
and 8-cylinder engines.
So how can you convince a large percentage
of Americans who live in middle America to go electric?
Well, I mean the Ford F-150 is a great
example of a big car that has gone
electric and is very exciting.
But people have to make their own decision.
I get it.
Nobody's going to force anybody to make these decisions.
I honestly think that the price--
as the price of the electric vehicle comes down--
and it has dropped 23% year-over-year, 23% reduction,
which means that they're on par.
Now, a new EV and a new gas-powered vehicle,
and the price of operating the car,
and not having to go to the gas station,
and being able to fill it up for much less
and more conveniently, honestly I think
it's going to sell itself.
And I think you'll see--
I mean, this is why I mean you know, Tesla, for example,
their uptake has been amazing.
They've accounted for a huge percentage of the increase
in electric vehicle sales.
It's because they've offered a lower--
not a low-- but a lower cost model, an entry-- more
entry level model.
And people just love driving the car.
You're going to see this throughout all of these models.
So I think I get it.
People are-- people love their cars.
You're a car gal.
I know.
And I think that they'll love their EVs too.
They have been.
Do you think this is going to be a topic, going
electric, between President Biden
and whoever the Republican nominee is?
Do you think this is going to be a common topic
on the campaign trail talking about electric vehicles
in this push? - I mean, it could be.
But here's the interesting part, is
that all of those factories that I was talking about regarding
building electric vehicles and electric vehicle batteries,
60% of them are going into red states.
So people in red states love their EVs too and are
working at these factories.
So I think, again, I just think that over time,
the political nonsense about it will die down.
And people's experience will speak much more loudly.
I think it's important for those who care about global warming,
climate change, and doing their part,
EVs are a solution for them.
For those who care about cost, EVs are a solution for them.
For those who care about power, EVs are a solution for them.
I mean, people just have to get used to it and understand it.
And I think you'll see this uptake continue to snowball.
This is great.
What are we missing about electric vehicles?
What do you want to tell me?
People need to understand that the whole supply
chain for building these electric vehicles
is coming back to the United States.
And there's a lot of talk I know in the political space
about EV's batteries being made in China, et cetera.
That's the whole point of these tax credits
is to incentivize bringing back that full supply
chain in the United States.
And so whereas China has had domination over batteries,
and that's true, you know, whether it's
a gas-powered vehicle or electric vehicle,
they've had domination.
We are now bringing this back.
And so the Department of Energy is funding companies
to fill in the gaps in the supply chain
to build that full system here.
And that means jobs.
People are going to have jobs doing responsible extraction
of minerals.
They're going to have jobs processing
those critical minerals.
They're going to have jobs building the batteries,
and the anode, the cathode, the separator material.
All of those are businesses that go into a battery.
And then they're going to have jobs assembling
the battery into the vehicle.
It's really a huge manufacturing and jobs
win for the country to be able to build this ecosystem
and this industry here.
And that to me is a really very important benefit
of the President's agenda.