McClellan: I Became What I Wanted to Change

May 29, 2008 — -- The following is a transcript of ABC News White House Correspondent Martha Raddatz's interview with former White House Press Secretary and George Bush aide Scott McClellan about his explosive book, "What Happened: Inside the Bush White House and What's Wrong with Washington."

Watch part of Martha Raddatz's interview with Scott McClellan tonight on World News at 6:30pmET.

MARTHA RADDATZ: Scott, I, I want to start with these descriptions, for you to describe, first of all, the President. I know you still say you have affection for him, but- you think he's a charming guy, a charismatic man. But some of the things you said in there are brutal, about how he makes decisions, about what he said, during the build-up to the war, during the war. How would you describe him?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, and in the book, uh, one of the things I try to do is look at the key characters, and of course, uh, the most prominent character is the President himself. Uh, I also, in the book, uh, look at myself, and put myself under the microscope, first. And I fell short in many ways, during my time as White House Press Secretary. But in terms of the President, uh, I, I do, I do have great affection for him. I think he's authentic and sincere, in his beliefs. Um, but I think that, uh, instead of changing Washington, as he promised to do, uh, remember, he came to Washington on a promise of bipartisanship, and honesty, and integrity, uh, he too readily embraced the way Washington, the way the Washington game is played today. He got caught up in this permanent campaign mentality, and I think that was what caused him problems later on, um, in terms of, uh, a lack of a high level of openness, and forthrightness, at some defining moments. Um, and, and all of us, to some extent, uh, got caught up in that, people on both sides of the aisle...There are a lot of good and decent people, uh, like the President, who come to Washington for the right reasons. Uh, but they get caught up in this atmosphere, which is very poisonous.

MARTHA RADDATZ: Scott, you use every word short of calling the President and his chief advisors, liars. You say they spin, they exaggerate, self-deceit, self-deceit. You're talking about the President of the United States. That's what you think of the President of the United States.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, uh, all people- all, I think all human begins, uh, have good attributes, and they also have their flaws. And, when you're looking back and trying to give readers a sense of who the key players were, I think you want to take them inside the White House, and talk about both their good attributes, but also, their very human flaws, and why that contributed to things going off-course, like they did. Uh, this was a presidency that veered badly off-course. It was, uh, something that all of us would prefer didn't have happened if it wouldn't, didn't happen. Uh, but it did, and I try to take a very close look at that, from my perspective. Uh, this whole book was really a soul-searching and truth-seeking process for me. Uh, these weren't easy words to write, uh, but I felt they were important, so that other people can have an understanding of what happened, and learn from it,so that we can improve things in the f- in the future.

MARTHA RADDATZ: Describe to me, then, the President, in terms of telling the truth to the public.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, I, I think that the, the President, again, I, there's, there's a- going back to, uh, the way a lot of politicians get caught up in this whole environment in D.C., where it's a, a battle over power and influence, and, and always campaigning with the next election in mind, instead of getting more focused on deliberation and compromise. And so I, I don't think that what happened, uh, was deliberate or intentional, or conscious, on his part, or on a lot of other people's parts, on both sides of the aisles. Uh, I think it's just going to take...

MARTHA RADDATZ: Can you describe to me...

SCOTT McCLELLAN: ...It's just --

MARTHA RADDATZ: Describe to me what you think of the President, 'cause you're spinning right now.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: I know, I, I, um...

MARTHA RADDATZ: Describe to me what you think of the President.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Again, I have a lot of personal affection for him, but I think...

MARTHA RADDATZ: I know.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: ...I think in his, in terms of some of his policy, he was, uh, misguided. Uh, in terms of...

MARTHA RADDATZ: In terms of...?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: ...His policies were misplaced.

MARTHA RADDATZ: In, in terms of veering off-course. In, in your mind, is the President a liar?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: No. Um, I think...

MARTHA RADDATZ: What, what's the difference between lying, and not telling the truth?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well, that's one of the point- that's one of the points...

MARTHA RADDATZ: To exaggerating, or spinning?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: ...That's one of the, that's one of the points I make. Um, and I, I think that, you know, Washington tries to look at things in black and white terms.The truth is often more nuanced than that, and just what goes into great care and detail, looking to understand that truth. And I think that the President is someone who, uh, just got caught up in, in, uh, the way the game is played in Washington. That it's not, it's not that he's deliberately going out to try to mislead anybody, or anything of that nature, it's just the way that, you know, that the permanent...

MARTHA RADDATZ: You don't think that he was... but that's exactly what you say in the book.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: ...What the permanent campaign...

MARTHA RADDATZ: That he's trying to mislead.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: The permanent campaign is inherently deceptive. Most of it's in- incidental, or harmless, in, in other ways. Uh, but when you bring that mentality into the war-making process, then it becomes very troubling, and that's what happened with this White House. Uh, instead of looking at the hard truths, and explaining those to the American people, about what to expect with war, we got caught up in this whole mentality of selling the war to the American people. Um, and yes, in itself, uh, it becomes a game played on spin, a game played on obfu- obfuscation, and secrecy, uh, was another thing, that, you know, we built walls between the White House, and the press, too often, I think. Um, in this day and age, when you have such a transparent society, openness and forthrightness are essential, and particularly when you're in the build-up to a war.

MARTHA RADDATZ: What's the, what's the difference between obfuscation, spinning, exaggerating, and lying? I think we all go round and round and we don't want to call a lie and lie. And you said yourself in the book that the President sometimes would say things that weren't quite true. And that he wouldn't think they were a lie?

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Using words like lie, deliberate, misleading, and things like that, it's emotionally charged and it misses from the larger point. Now it's problematic in it's own right if it's not deliberate or intentional. But when you get into words like that they too often poison the atmosphere in Washington, and I think you have to look at it from a, take a step back from it and look at it from a more reasoned approach.

MARTHA RADDATZ: -- And saying he's "exaggerated," and "veered off course" is more reasoned and doesn't poison the atmosphere.

SCOTT McCLELLAN: Well I think that you have to be open and honest in order to learn from your mistakes and be able to correct them in the future to understand what would happen to take things off course. And if we don't address these issues openly and honestly then we don't learn. And that's what I've been trying to focus on in this book.

MARTHA RADDATZ: But you said it was an honor and a privilege to work for the President when you left the White House. I remember seeing you walk away. And this is a dramatic change. I've sat on that front row day after day in your last few months, your last year. I heard you talk about the war. I heard you defend the President through countless, countless crises. What happened? What changed?