THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' ON February 7, 2016 and it will be updated.
ANNOUNCER: Starting right now on a special edition of THIS WEEK with George Stephanopoulos, debate night face-off. The GOP candidates on the attack in a fiery final debate in New Hampshire.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JEB BUSH (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Let me talk.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Be quiet.
A lot of times --
ANNOUNCER (voice-over): Two days until the first-in-the-nation primary.
Will Trump put a win on the board?
TRUMP: And our country is going to hell.
ANNOUNCER (voice-over): Donald Trump joins us live.
Then, Rubio under fire: the freshman senator takes incoming from all sides.
GOV. CHRIS CHRISTIE (R-NJ), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: There it is. The memorized 25-second speech.
ANNOUNCER(voice-over): Marco Rubio responds in a THIS WEEK exclusive.
Plus, the Democratic underdog?
Hillary Clinton knocking on doors in New Hampshire.
Can she come from behind against Bernie Sanders?
Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton, all here live. From ABC News, a special edition of THIS WEEK, live from Manchester, New Hampshire.
Here now, chief anchor George Stephanopoulos.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: These last debates before the New Hampshire primary have made a big difference in years past. And last night's was a doozy. Donald Trump back at center stage.
The three governors had their best night yet. Toughest one yet for Marco Rubio. And the latest poll from WMUR here in Manchester, taken just before the debate, shows Donald Trump back up to 33 percent, 17 points ahead of Marco Rubio, followed by Ted Cruz at 14 percent, Ohio governor John Kasich at 11 percent, Jeb Bush back at 7 percent.
And the big question now, how did the debate play with that fluid group of New Hampshire voters, who wait until the final minute to make up their minds?
Donald Trump, Marco Rubio, Hillary Clinton all here this morning. And ABC's Jon Karl starts us off with the highlights of last night.
Good morning, Jon.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, George.
As our audience saw, there was a bit of a traffic jam up there as the candidates came on the stage. But once they made to it their podiums, it was a big night for the governors and for Donald Trump.
KARL (voice-over): Back at center stage after skipping the last debate, Donald Trump defended his temperament to be commander in chief.
TRUMP: I actually think I have the best temperament. I'm not the one with the trigger. Other people up here, believe me, would be a lot faster.
KARL (voice-over): Ted Cruz, the man who beat Trump in Iowa, had hammered him all week but on the debate stage, Cruz pulled his punches.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You said he doesn’t have the temperament to be commander in chief.
Do you stand by those words?
CRUZ: I think that is an assessment the voters are going on make.
TRUMP: If you noticed, he didn't answer your question. We're going win with Trump. And people back down with Trump.
KARL (voice-over): The candidate rising fastest in New Hampshire?
Senator Marco Rubio took fire all night with a barrage coming from New Jersey's Chris Christie.
CHRISTIE: You have not been involved in a consequential decision where you had to be held accountable.
KARL (voice-over): Rubio drew ridicule for repeating himself repeatedly.
RUBIO: And let's dispel once and for all with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing.
Let's dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing.
This notion that Barack Obama doesn't know what he's doing is just not true.
CHRISTIE: There it is. There it is. The memorized 25-second speech.
KARL (voice-over): Christie and his fellow governors at the edges of the stage dominated much of the night, all fighting for a New Hampshire comeback. John Kasich hoping to appeal to moderates, won over the crowd with a positive message.
GOV. JOHN KASICH (R-OH), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We have to solve problems in America by coming together, Republicans and Democrats. Americans first, party and ideology second. That's what we need to do.
KARL (voice-over): And Bush made his most forceful attacks yet against Trump on the issue of eminent domain.
BUSH: What Donald Trump did was to use eminent domain to try to take the property of an elderly woman.
TRUMP: Yes, and he wants to be a tough guy and it doesn’t work very well with --
BUSH: How tough is it to take property from an elderly woman?
TRUMP: Let me talk. Quiet.
BUSH: How tough is it?
TRUMP: -- a lot of times -- a lot of times -- that's all of his donors and special interests out there.
So it's what it is.
KARL: That's right. Donald Trump went after the audience. I have never seen that in a debate before. But he still has a solid, double-digit lead here in New Hampshire.
But remember, George. New Hampshire voters are famous for changing their minds and for deciding at the very last minute.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, a third of them haven't made up their mind yet. And Donald Trump joins us right now.
Welcome back, Mr. Trump.
So what did you think about last night?
TRUMP: I loved it. It was a great debate. We had some fun. I had a great time and I'm very happy with the results. It was terrific.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You did have that back-and-forth with Jeb Bush on eminent domain. And the facts do seem to be on his side.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- let me just explain it first. Vera Coking, you wanted and the Casino Development Authority of New Jersey wanted to take her house to build a parking lot for your casino.
TRUMP: Not a parking lot.
STEPHANOPOULOS: She went to -- She went to court. You fought her for three years and finally the state supreme court ruled and here's what they said.
Trump, not the public, stood to benefit from the proposed seizures and that the deal was analogous to giving Trump a blank check with respect to future development on the property for casino hotel purposes.
And you know what I did?
I let the court stand as opposed to going higher up.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it was the state Supreme Court.
TRUMP: But let me -- we could have gone higher. But let me just tell you, George, I decided not to do it. I decided not to pursue it. We could have --
STEPHANOPOULOS: A three-year fight.
TRUMP: -- doesn't matter. We could have gone a different way. I offered her a lot of money. She ended up selling the house for much less money than I offered her.
Eminent domain is a very important thing. Jeb Bush doesn't understand what it means. And if you look into the Bush family -- I found this out five minutes ago. They used eminent domain for the stadium in Texas, where they own, I guess, a piece of the Texas Rangers.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That was George W. Bush.
TRUMP: That doesn't matter. It was the Bush family. They used private eminent domain. He didn't tell anybody this. So I mean, he should have told people. Maybe -- he probably doesn't know because I don't even think he knows what eminent domain is. But I just found that out five minutes ago.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So no second thoughts about your position at all?
TRUMP: Eminent domain is important. You wouldn't have highways, you wouldn’t have roadways, you wouldn’t have bridges, you wouldn’t have hospitals. You wouldn't have anything without it.
The Keystone Pipeline, everybody wants the Keystone Pipeline. If you're a conservative, you want the Keystone Pipeline. They have a whole section on eminent domain. When they write up, the whole thing, on the Keystone. They have a whole section right now --
STEPHANOPOULOS: The crowd wasn't on your side.
TRUMP: The crowd was on my side except they were all friends of mine that were donors and special interests and lobbyists, some of whom worked for me in the past.
It was -- actually, it was a very -- it shows how broken the system is. The people in that audience were the people that were supporting all of the candidates. I'm the only candidate not taking money. I'm not taking money.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You had no supporters in the crowd?
TRUMP: I had supporters. I had 20 tickets. I mean, they gave me 20 tickets.
Hey, George, all of those people in that crowd, 90 percent of them were people that gave to the various candidates and mostly to Bush.
Look, Bush got $128 million. He's nowhere. He spent over $100 million on this failed campaign of his. And he's nowhere. Those people were in the audience. So every time anybody said anything, in fact, Rubio actually said, he said, why does nobody get any response but Bush?
I just think it's really showing the system. When you have somebody like me, where I don't take money, where I'm a self-funder, people really appreciate that. And that's why I brought it out last night. It was a good point, I think. But I brought it out last night.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The issue of waterboarding front and center last night as (INAUDIBLE). You said, I would bring back waterboarding and I would bring back a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.
What did you have in mind?
TRUMP: Well, George, you're not talking about what I said before that. I said we're living in a world where, in the Middle East, they're cutting people's heads off. They're chopping a Christian's head off. And many of them, we talk about Foley, James Foley, and you know, what a wonderful young man. Boom, they're chopping heads.
So then I went into this. I said, yes, I would bring back waterboarding. And I would make it a hell of a lot worse than waterboarding.
What did you have in mind?
TRUMP: I had in mind going worse than waterboarding. It's enough. We have right now a country that's under siege. It's under siege from a people, from -- we're like living in medieval times. If I have it to do and if it's up to me, I would absolutely bring back waterboarding. And if it's going to be tougher than waterboarding, I would bring that back, too.
STEPHANOPOULOS: As president, you would authorize torture?
TRUMP: I would absolutely authorize something beyond waterboarding. And believe me, it will be effective. If we need information, George, you have our enemy cutting heads off of Christians and plenty of others, by the hundreds, by the thousands.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do we win by being more like them?
TRUMP: Yes. I'm sorry. You have to do it that way. And I'm not sure everybody agrees with me. I guess a lot of people don't. We are living in a time that's as evil as any time that there has ever been. You know, when I was a young man, I studied Medieval times. That's what they did, they chopped off heads. That's what we have...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So we're going to chop off heads...
TRUMP: We're going to do things beyond waterboarding perhaps, if that happens to come. The question was asked. I thought Ted's answer was very tentative, Ted Cruz. He gave a very tentative answer. If we have to, we're going to have to do more.
But when you have conditions like that, I would say absolutely, I would approve waterboarding and if you go beyond it, I'm OK with that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So let me just clarify this. Right now, the law says they have to follow the Army "Field Manual," which prohibits...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- waterboarding. You would try to overturn the law (INAUDIBLE)...
TRUMP: Well, no, you had to have it reclassified. You reclassify and you'll see what happens.
But I would certainly approve waterboarding. They laugh at us. Our enemies laugh at us, George. They say waterboarding, they don't even think it's a form -- you know, they don't even view that as real torture.
But they say waterboarding and they chop off heads. They think we are so stupid, you have no idea. The enemy that we are fighting -- and no wonder they're doing so well, because with this kind of thinking, that's why they're doing so well.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, you -- there was another issue that came up last night. You -- you just cited how you always were against the Iraq War. Fact checkers have gone through and haven't seen any statements of you against the war until after it began.
TRUMP: In 2003-2004, I was against the war. That's probably the first time. Now, again, I wasn't a politician, George. I'm not somebody that you would interview. I was a businessman.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I actually interviewed you back in 1999...
TRUMP: You probably (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: You were thinking of running for president then.
TRUMP: But the point is -- yes, I was, actually. Maybe I should have done it. I like this one better. I like this time better.
But the fact is that in 2003-2004, I was very much opposed to the Iraq War. I said it's going to destabilize the Middle East. It exactly destabilized the Middle East.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about another issue, a social issue on voters' minds right now, gay marriage.
Last Sunday on "Fox News Sunday," you said you would strongly consider appointing Supreme Court justices to overturn the ruling that every state must offer gay marriage.
But later this week, you said this to a reporter here, Sue O'Connell of the New England Cable Channel.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SUE O'CONNELL: When President Trump is in office, can we look for more forward motion on equality for gays and lesbians?
TRUMP: Well, you can. And, you know, again, we're going to bring people together. And that's your thing and other people have their thing. We have to bring all people together. And if we don't, we're not going to have a country anymore.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: But just last Sunday, you said you would strongly consider appointing justices who would overturn it.
TRUMP: I'm talking about bringing people together and we -- I would appoint justices. It would take a long time, frankly, because I don't know how long it would take to appoint a...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you want them to overturn...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- that Supreme Court decision?
TRUMP: If they -- if they -- I would appoint them and we will see how they will vote but I would...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But how does that move us to equality?
TRUMP: We'll find out. I mean we're going to find out. There's a lot of people that want to see that. But I would, I'd -- more important than anything else to me, this country is so divided right now, as per her question. This country is so totally divided, it's probably almost never been as divided as it is right now and we have to bring it together.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But a majority of Americans now support the idea of gay marriage.
Wouldn't it be divisive to try to overturn it?
TRUMP: It has -- it has really been determined and we will see what happens. We're going to look at judges. They've got to be great judges. They've got to be conservative judges. We're going to see how they stand depending on -- on what their views are.
But that would be my preference.
STEPHANOPOULOS: See, that's what I mean.
Where do you want them to stand?
TRUMP: I would prefer that they stand against it, but we'll see what happens. It depends on the judge.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And how does that move us toward equality for gays and lesbians?
TRUMP: Well, I think what will happen is -- and, look, George, it's very simple. We're going to bring our country together. We're going to unify our country. We're going to do whatever we have to do. I'm going to put the absolute bed -- best judges in position. If their views -- we're going to see what their views are. I will make the determination at that time.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But what do you say to gays and lesbians who think that overturning that decision is not unifying our country, it's dividing our country?
TRUMP: Well, I think I understand what they're saying and we're going to see what happens. It's a long way off, George. It's a long way off.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What's happening here in New Hampshire?
TRUMP: I think we're doing well. I think it's going well. I think our ground forces are good. I think I had a good debate last night.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Better than Iowa?
TRUMP: Well, I think I did very well in Iowa. I came in first or second, depending on how you want to count the Carson vote. I mean depending on how you want to count that, I came in either first or second out of originally 17 people.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you came in second.
TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you what, if you add up all of the thousands of votes that were added onto Cruz, you know, you'll see what happens. I mean I think I might have come in better than second.
But it doesn't matter. I think second a very good finish.
You know, Rubio came in third. Every -- everybody was saying what a great job he did. I came in second and they said, oh, he had a bad performance.
And I said why is that bad?
I mean I came in second, he came in third, he was good and I wasn't?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Marco Rubio is coming up.
What do you think happened with him last night?
TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, I don't know. He had a rough time, but, you know, we'll see what happens. I mean we have a -- an interesting two days ahead. But I wanted to get by the debate. People said I won the debate. Almost everybody said I won the debate. Even you said I did well.
And we'll see what happens.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Who's standing between you and the nomination right now?
TRUMP: I don't know. It's a long way to go, George. To me, it's a long way to go. I mean I see these wonderful poll numbers, but they don't mean anything to me. I just don't know about polls. I don't know if they're accurate. When they interview 300 people and then they come up with this brilliant poll, to me, the people in New Hampshire have to get out, have to vote and hopefully they're going to vote for Trump, because I'm going to do a good job.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll see you on the trail.
TRUMP: Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks for joining us this morning.
TRUMP: Thank you.
Thank you very much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And up next, we're just getting started here in New Hampshire. Hillary Clinton coming up. She had a big comeback four years ago in New Hampshire.
Can she do it again?
Marco Rubio is next taking on the critics with his tough night.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: And let's dispel once and for all this fiction, that Barack Obama doesn’t know what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing. We are not facing a president that doesn’t know what he's doing. He knows what he is doing. Let's dispel with this fiction that Barack Obama doesn’t what he's doing. He knows exactly what he's doing. Anyone who believes that Barack Obama isn't doing what he's doing on purpose doesn’t understand what we're dealing with here.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Democrats are circulating that video from last night, Senator Marco Rubio joins us live right now.
What went wrong?
RUBIO: Well, actually, I would pay them to keep running that clip because that's what I believe passionately. It's one of the reasons why I'm not running for reelection to the Senate and I'm running for president. This notion and this idea that somehow, oh, this is an accident -- ObamaCare was not an accident. Dodd-Frank was not an accident. The deal with Iran was not an accident --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you're getting pounded for repeating that speech.
RUBIO: Well, look, we raised more money last night in the first hour that debate than any other debate. As far as that message, I hope they keep running it and I'm going to keep saying because it's true. Barack Obama -- yes, has he hired incompetent people to implement laws and run agencies? Absolutely.
But when it comes to the -- what he's trying to do to America, it's part of a plan. He has said he wanted to change the country; he's doing it in a way that is robbing us of everything that makes us special.
I'm going to keep saying that because that not only is it the truth, it is at the core of our --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But even after Chris Christie called you out for what he called canned speeches, 25-second canned speeches, you repeated again, he says, there you go again. That was not a good moment for you, was it?
RUBIO: It's what I believe. And it's what I'm going to continue to say because it happens to be one of the main reasons why I am running. I -- this is the greatest country in the history of mankind because of a certain set of principles. Barack Obama wants us to abandon those principles that he has spent seven years putting in place policies that rip them from us: undermining the Constitution, undermining free enterprise, undermining our standing in the world, weakening America, apologizing for us on the global stage.
The reason why I'm running is if we elect someone like that for the next four years, I think it may be too late for American to turn around.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Lindsey Graham supporting Jeb Bush now, said the case for Marco Rubio is ready to be commander in chief took a hit tonight.
RUBIO: Well, Lindsey Graham supporting Jeb Bush, I don’t expect that he's going to say positive things about me.
Here's the truth of everybody on that stage: no one on that stage last night has more experience or better understand of the national security issues before this country than I do. And that is the most important thing the president does. The president doesn’t run the economy but the president does have to be commander in chief.
No one --
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though you've never been in an executive position?
RUBIO: No one on that stage has a better understanding or has shown better judgment on foreign policy than I have, period. And I think I demonstrated that last night and I've demonstrated that throughout the campaign.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Speaking of national security and foreign policy, just heard Donald Trump back here on the issue of waterboarding and torture, said he would authorize something even worse, that sometimes we do have to mirror our enemies.
What did you make of that?
RUBIO: Well, I don’t even know what that means, obviously, so I can't make much of it. I can tell you two things and I said it last night.
The first is we shouldn't really be discussing specific tactics because it allows a terrorist -- literally -- to plan for how they'll be interrogated to avoid -- to avoid --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you would reserve the right to order waterboarding?
RUBIO: Well, we are going to interrogate terrorists. We're not even doing that now because they're not -- there's no one being sent to Guantanamo. But beyond that, I would tell you that we have to understand we cannot interrogate a terrorist as if it was a law enforcement investigation.
A law enforcement investigation is about collecting evidence for prosecution. A terrorism interrogation is about finding out information to prevent something from happening, to prevent an attack or to target others who are involved in actively plotting.
So you have to use different tactics. We're not going to discuss those tactics. Let me -- suffice it to say that we are going to comply with whatever a civilized nation would do. But you have to treat terrorists differently than you do a street criminal.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You also got called out by Jeb Bush and Chris Christie on the issue of abortion because you don’t support exceptions for rape and incest.
And Jeb Bush also said this to CNN. I want to put that up.
He said, "It's a tough sell to tell a pro-life mother that her daughter has been raped, that she would just have to accept that as a sad fact. This is not an easy decision. But Marco will have to explain that position."
What would you say to -- ?
RUBIO: Well, a couple things. Number one, abortion to me is not a political issue. It's a human rights issue. And so if Jeb wants to make it a political issue, that's his right. For me, it's not.
Number two, I have supported laws that have expectations, the 20-week abortion ban.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- what you believe.
RUBIO: Well, first of all, I do require an exception for life of the mother because I'm pro-life. Number two, I -- as I've said, if they pass a law in Congress that has exceptions, I'll sign it because I want to save lives.
The broader point I've made, however, is I believe all human life is worthy of the protection of our laws. That's what I deeply and personally believe. And I'm not going to change my position on something of -- that is so deep in me in order to win an election.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what do you say to that mom, to look her in the eye --
RUBIO: It's a terrible situation. I mean, a crisis pregnancy, especially as a result of something as horrifying as that, I'm not telling you it's easy. I'm not here saying it's an easy choice. It is a horrifying thing what you've just described. It's heartbreaking. It is unimaginable, quite frankly. I get it. I really do. And that's why this issue is so difficult.
But I believe a human being, an unborn child, has a right to live irrespective of the circumstances by which they were conceived. But I know that that's not a majority of Americans don't agree with me on that. And that is probably -- and that's why any law that limits abortions that passes will almost certainly have exceptions. And I'll sign it with exceptions.
But I personally believe that all human life is worthy of the protection of our laws.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Immigration, the most talked about issue online last night. You get a hit for being for the gang of eight bill, part of the gang of eight on immigration, also for running away from it.
So bottom line, was it a mistake to forge the original deal?
RUBIO: No, look, I went to Washington to try to solve problems. Immigration is a huge problem in Florida. And I saw an opportunity to do the best we could in a Senate controlled by liberals like Harry Reid in the hopes that the House would take it up and make it even better. It happened in the Senate, did not happen in the House.
Here's the bottom line, that's not the way we're going to do it when I'm president. We have a majority of Republicans in the House and Senate and I'm president, we're going to do it differently. We're going to do it the way I want to do it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if that's the best you could do, you would sign it?
RUBIO: Well, I don't think that's the right. I don't think that law, the way it was constructed, could have ever passed, because most certainly I think when you look at the House and the broader population in America, people don't want to move on immigration until you can prove to them that illegal immigration is under control.
And that's the point I've been making now for three years. We are not going to be able to do this comprehensively. As president, we will not. As president the first thing we're going to do is secure our border. And until the border is secure, nothing else is going to happen on immigration. And anyone who believes otherwise is either delusional or is not being honest.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But no regrets about being for the gang of eight, being part of the gang of eight?
RUBIO: I went up there to try to solve problems. It would have been easier to sit back and just give speeches and criticize what other people did.
I went up there to try to solve problems. Immigration is a big problem. And it's still -- it's harder today and worse today than it was three years ago.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Your opponents had no trouble last night saying you're not ready to be commander-in-chief. Straight question, do you think Donald Trump is ready to be commander in chief?
RUBIO: Well, I think in order for Donald to pass that threshold eventually at some point he's going to have to show some in depth knowledge of the foreign policy issues before us. Up to now, he has not done that.
And, you know...
STEPHANOPOULOS: He's not ready right now.
RUBIO: Well, he's new to politics, and so I think he still has time to learn about these things, but he's running out of time. Last night alone, we just had a brief question about North Korea. This is a huge threat. The leader of North Korea is a lunatic, but he possesses long-range missiles that are probably already capable of reaching the United States, most certainly capable of reaching Guam and Hawaii and not to mention our allies like Japan and South Korea.
And this is an emerging issue, but it's a very dangerous one. He better have an in depth understanding of that, that because on your first day in office you cannot predict what issue will confront you. I know this, of all those people on that stage last night still running for president, none of them has more experience or a better understanding or has proven better judgment on these issues than I have.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And right now Donald Trump does not have that readiness?
RUBIO: Well, I don't think Donald Trump has answered questions about foreign policy in depth up to this point. He didn't know what the nuclear triad was what he was asked a few weeks ago in one of our other debates. And even last night, the most he could say about North Korea was something about China and leverage.
So, I think that ultimately -- I'm not here to pick on other Republicans. I'll let at the end of the day the voters make that design, but I can tell you if you want to be commander-in-chief, whether it's Donald or everybody else running, you better show that you understand these issues in depth and that you have some good judgment on them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: People writing about your strategy say you have a 3, 2, 1 strategy, third in Iowa, second in New Hampshire, first in South Carolina. Still on track for a second place here?
RUBIO: Well, you've never heard anybody in my campaign say anything about that. We wanted to get as many as we can and as many delegates as we can. So last week in Iowa came in third, but we had as many delegates as the second place finisher, and one less delegate than the first place finisher.
This is going to matter in a race like this potentially.
Same strategy in New Hampshire, we want to get as many people to vote for me as possible. And we'll keep moving forward.
I can tell you that we've built a campaign that's going to be around in South Carolina, in Nevada, on March 1 and beyond. And I feel very optimistic about where we are going to be once the delegates are tallied, once everyone else -- and especially once the race has narrowed two or three people.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And nothing from last night changes that?
RUBIO: Absolutely not. Other than the fact that we raised more money in the first hour of that debate than we did in any other debate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Senator Rubio, thanks for joining us this morning. Thank you.
And that's it for the Republicans. Hillary Clinton up next, plus our Powerhouse Roundtable on last night's winners and losers and where things are headed in this wild race.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
LARRY DAVID, "SATURDAY NIGHT LIVE": I come from a wealthy family. Technically, my life is worth more than all of yours put together, especially these women and midgets. So if it's all the same to you, I'm going to pop down in that lifeboat.
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hold on. Hold on. Wait a second.
SANDERS: I am so sick of the 1 percent getting this preferential treatment.
SANDERS: Enough is enough. Enough.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Bernie Sanders on "Saturday Night Live" last night.
We're joined now by his opponent, former Secretary of State Hillary Clinton.
She joins us now from Manchester, as well.
Madam Secretary, thank you for joining us this morning.
So you have had your own turn on "Saturday Night Live."
How did he do?
HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, I didn't get to see it, but it's always a fun experience. I'm sure he did great. You know, it's a wonderful forum. It's a crash course in trying to figure out how to do live TV. And I had a great time doing it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We also had, of course, the Republican debate last night here at St. Anselm's. And Marco Rubio called you out on the issue of abortion.
Take a look.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R-FL), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Why doesn't the media ask Hillary Clinton why she believes that all abortions should be legal, even on the due date of that unborn child?
Why don't they ask Hillary Clinton why she believes that partial birth abortion, which is a gruesome procedure that has been outlawed in this country, she thinks that's a fundamental right. They are the extremists when it comes to the issue of abortion and I can't wait to expose them in a general election.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you going to get exposed in a general election?
CLINTON: You know, George, I -- it's really quite sad to see what Senator Rubio is becoming in this campaign. Everybody understands that he is diving as far right as he possibly can. You know, I've been on record for many years about where I stand on abortion, how it should be safe and legal and I have the same position that I've had for a very long time.
But what's really going on here is an effort by the Republicans to keep pushing as far as they can to overturn "Roe v. Wade," to defund Planned Parenthood, to make accusations and attacks that are really extreme...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But are there any...
CLINTON: -- and I -- I think the Amer...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- restrictions you would accept on late-term abortions?
CLINTON: Well, you know, I've been on the record on this for a long time. You know, I think that the life and health of the mother, obviously, rape and incest, have to be always taken into account. And, you know, when he raises the, you know, very, very difficult issue of late-term abortion, he conveniently overlooks the fact that there are medical reasons, there are health-related reasons.
I've met women who have had to face this excruciating choice. This is not something that anyone that I've ever met with enters into without the deepest thought, the most careful consideration.
And I remember at an event back in the '90s, where, you know, we sat and talked with some of the women who had to make a very hard decision.
You know, it's -- it's just so unfortunate that politicians like Senator Rubio are trying to politicize these kinds of very difficult concerns.
CLINTON: And I don't think he should be allowed to get away with that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You had your own debate with Bernie Sanders this week, as well. And he challenged -- you challenged him to come up with evidence that contributions from Wall Street ever influenced your positions.
He and his team have circulated the charge from Elizabeth Warren, who said you changed your position on the bankruptcy bill back in 2001 because of contributions.
Here's what Senator Warren had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN (D), MASSACHUSETTS: One of the first bills that came up after she was Senator Clinton was the bankruptcy bill.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And?
WARREN: She voted in favor of it. She has taken money from the groups. And more to the point, she worries about them as a constituency.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you respond to that charge?
CLINTON: Well, I'm glad you asked me about it, because this is one of these, you know, innuendo insinuation charges that the Sanders campaign is engaging in.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that was Senator Warren, though.
CLINTON: If you -- no, but -- but I know. But if you had played the entire quote, you know, what you would have heard her say, she and I worked together in 2000 to stop a bankruptcy bill that we both believed was very harmful.
When I got to the Senate in 2001, one of the first big votes there was on a version of the bankruptcy bill and I was deluged by women's groups and children's advocates groups to do everything I could to make sure that child support and women's precarious financial situation in case of divorce or not being able to get the kind of funding they needed from a partner or a spouse in bankruptcy would not be endangered. And it was. The current -- that bill was making it a very low priority.
So I did go to work on behalf of all these women's groups and children's groups because they needed a champion. And I got that bill changed. And in return, it had nothing to do with any money whatsoever -- and I resent deeply any effort by the Sanders campaign to so imply...
CLINTON: It had to do with trying to get a deal...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's not what...
CLINTON: -- that would protect women. But now let me finish, George, because this has been bandied about and I just want to set the record straight.
And so then three years later, part of the -- part of what Senator -- Senator Warren said, you played. You didn't play the whole thing, because we've been allies. I faced a tough decision and I stood up for women and children. I went to the Senate floor, said that was exactly what I was doing.
Then the bill did not pass. It never became law. And then when the next bill came up, 2005, women's issues were taken care of because I had made that a point back in 2001.
And so then I was against that bill. I didn't get a chance to actually vote against it because Bill was in the hospital having a heart procedure. But I put a statement out. I was against it.
So I'm happy to set this record straight. And I really want to, once again, call out the Sanders campaign, which claims they like to run a positive campaign. But they have been quite artful in raising questions and trying to cast doubts about my record.
And I really am not going to sit and take it anymore --
STEPHANOPOULOS: But Senator --
CLINTON: I have a public record. I have never, ever been influenced in a view or a vote by anyone who has given me any kind of money. So I'm just going to keep setting the record straight.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But in her book, Senator Warren said the bill was essentially the same but Hillary Clinton -- Hillary Rodham Clinton was not. Big banks were now part of Secretary Clinton's consistency. She wanted their support. They wanted hers, including --
CLINTON: George, look, I -- look, I have the greatest -- I have the greatest respect for Senator Warren. As I said, we did work together. I faced a choice. I could have said to the women who have been my advocates for 30 years, I'm sorry; I'm now in the Senate. But you know, I can't help you. Nobody else is helping them. They were desperate to get help. They were afraid that child support was going to be below credit card debt, that they were going to be really left out and left behind and badly damaged.
I could have said, you know, I can't do that because somebody in 10 years might say that, you know, something else is going on. That's not the way I work. So they came to me; I said this is outrageous. I went to the floor. I lobbied to get a change. And as part of getting that change from both Democrats and Republicans, who were leading that legislation, they said if we change this bill at the last minute to take account of these issues you're raising about women and children, which they had not clearly made a priority before I showed up, then you know, you have to say you'll vote for it.
It was -- you know, look, that's what you have to do. I swallowed hard; I said OK. But it was also the case it didn't get passed. So I got what I needed into the bill. It stayed in the bill, even in the bad version that I posed in 2005.
So thanks for the opportunity to set the record straight.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In the debate the other night, you said you'd look into whether or not to release the transcripts of your speeches to financial groups.
Have you made up your mind?
CLINTON: Yes, you know, here's another thing I want to say. Let everybody who's ever given a speech to any private group under any circumstances release them. We'll all release them at the same time. You know, I don’t mind being the subject in Republican debates, the subject in the Democratic primary. That kind of goes with the territory. I've been around long enough.
But at some point, you know, these rules need to apply to everybody. And there are a bunch of folks, including, you know, my opponent, who's given, you know, speeches to groups and people on the other side who've given speeches to groups. Let -- if this is now going to be a new standard so then it should apply to everybody and then I'll be happy to look into it further.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Madam Secretary, thanks very much for your time this morning.
CLINTON: Great to talk to you, George, thanks.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we'll be right back with the roundtable.
What did they make of last night's debate and the road from here.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
CHRISTIE I'm proud of my record and, by the way, I like Kasich's record, too, as governor.
BUSH: I trust Kasich and Christie to build the roads and the infrastructure of their states than Washington, D.C.
KASICH: Jeb is right. If you delay and you wait, the Washington operators will take you down. There's so much that could be done. But I don’t trust Washington to do it. I trust the state capitals to be the place, to be the source of innovation and reform in this country.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Best night yet for the governors on the stage last night, even though they're behind right now. Here in New Hampshire, across the country, let's talk about the debate, where the campaign goes from here on our roundtable.
Joined by Cokie Roberts, Matthew Dowd, Donna Brazile and Bill Kristol.
Matthew, let me begin with you, the big story coming out of last night. You saw Marco Rubio handle it here, this morning said he wouldn’t do anything different.
But the worst reviews he's gotten this entire campaign.
MATTHEW DOWD, ABC NEWS SPECIAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes, I think he went in, having won almost every single debate coming up until Iowa. And he lost the most important debate in his momentum campaign.
I think, one, it stalls any momentum he had here. And his ability --
STEPHANOPOULOS: That serious?
DOWD: -- yes, I think it stalls any momentum in his ability to get second place is now in peril.
I think the second thing, more importantly than that is this kind of thing, is this kind of thing a virus that he can't get rid over the course of the campaign? Now will everybody see him through this lens? Is he prepared? And is he only a canned speech?
And that's what I think they're most worried about.
COKIE ROBERTS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: But you know, the point that they were going after him on, the governors, especially Christie, were going after him on and as you just heard in that sound bite from Jeb Bush, is a very important one because the truth is, up until 2008, we only elected two sitting senators ever president. And then in 2008, there were two senators running against each other. So you had to pick a senator.
And Obama's big resume point was not the United States Senate. So these -- this is always a problem for these guys. They don’t have accomplishments to point to. And when you're in the Senate, you have to cast votes. And you do cast votes often on one side and the other of something because of the way legislation works.
And so the combination of the fact that he has that Senate around his neck and first-term Senate around his neck and that he keeps saying the same thing over and over again has people looking and saying, what are you good at?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Is that what voters see?
You heard Marco Rubio here today, raise a lot of money last night. He wants to --
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- people watch him take on Barack Obama.
So is this something that he just can come back from pretty easily?
Or is it like Rick Perry in that "oops" moment back in 2008?
BILL KRISTOL, "THE WEEKLY STANDARD": Yes, David French had a good piece; Rick Perry at that horrible moment in 2012, the "oops" moment, which kind of crystallized doubts about him and therefore lingered forever, sort of a virus, as Matt says.
On the other hand, Mitt Romney had a horrible debate in South Carolina. He couldn't explain why he wasn't releasing his income tax forms. He lost South Carolina to Newt Gingrich. So he did pay a price that he came back, did a very good job against Gingrich in the debate in Florida. I think what it means is the race will go on. People, I think if you're Christie or if you're -- certain if you're Kasich or Bush, in any case it will do well here in New Hampshire incidentally, you look at that debate, you don’t -- you think, I'm not getting out after two states --
KRISTOL: -- they can stay in. Maybe it's the -- whichever one runs the lowest, I supposed, looks now it might be Christie -- will get out. But I think this -- I think -- look, think of the last week. One week ago in Iowa, Trump was supposed to win Iowa. Cruz upsets him. Whoops. Ooh, Trump's wounded.
Cruz wins Iowa, supposed to be get a bump into New Hampshire. No apparent bump. Maybe he's just another Huckabee or Santorum who wins Iowa but can't play in more moderate states.
Rubio is the one with momentum. Whoops, Saturday night debate. Rubio stumbles.
All three of them have been I think shown enough in the way of flaws that if I were advising Kasich or Bush or maybe even Christie I would say why not stay in this? Another debate, isn't there one just Saturday night in South Carolina?
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Right, right. Well, look, Marco Rubio was supposed to be the rock star. He was supposed to be the guy who comes out and with his charisma to transcend all of this, what I call, messiness of the Republican Party.
He came out last night, George, with a prerecorded stump speech in his head and he couldn't hit pause to respond to Chris Christie. Chris Christie prosecuted Marco Rubio. And he kept coming back with his stump speech. And his stump speech was, unlike Obama, and then he stalled.
And so I think it was a bad night for him.
ROBERTS: He has ads on that are exactly the same. So that same little clip is on TV over and over and over again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we'll see what kind of impact it has.
Meantime, you know, Donald Trump showed a lot of different sides of himself last night, but also had to be helped by the fact with the exception of Jeb Bush on eminent domain, nobody took him on.
DOWD: No, I think this debate was a perfect storm for John Kasich and for Donald Trump that worked in their favor, because Donald Trump came in here with a lead. He's led 75 straight polls now in New Hampshire. He wanted to recover from the Iowa loss and basically he gets the guy that was coming up close to him, gets battered around in the course of the debate. And then he actually shows up. He had a few shots that he did, but he basically stayed on even keel in the course of this.
And so when we go into election night on Tuesday, we may announce that New Hampshire picks presidents. And they're going to pick a democratic socialist on one side, if that happens, and a reality TV star on the other side. They may -- that New Hampshire may be picking those two people as who they think is president.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Right now they're both ahead.
Meantime, Ted Cruz last night as well. No one really touched him he had that apology to Ben Carson.
BRAZILE: You know what, I guess it was a lot of Reagan last night. Reagan's 11th commandment.
But Cruz may not be a factor...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't think Marco Rubio feels that way, but yeah...
BRAZILE: No, he doesn't. No one turned the other cheek on him.
No, Cruz didn't really want to perform. I think he just wanted to get out of the way. He was beaten up enough in Iowa winning as well as the last debate.
You know, I agree with Matt, Kasich, you know, we get asked all the time on the Democratic side who do you most fear? I don't fear anybody.
But Kasich last night, he talked as if he was looking past New Hampshire into the fall. He talked to I think the fears of Republicans, but the hopes of many Americans. So I think he's one to watch leaving the state.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the more people stay in, Bill Kristol -- yeah, but the more people that stay in, the better that is for Donald Trump, isn't it?
KRISTOL: Maybe, but Trump lost Iowa. The late deciders went against him in a big way. I think that will happen in New Hampshire. He will under perform his poll number. I don't think he's going to win by double digits. And I don't think it's out of the question that John Kasich could make it a close race against Donald Trump. I think Kasich will become of the governors the one who has the best chance here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But what does that mean? He doesn't really have a lot of money right now. He hasn't been able to build an organization much beyond New Hampshire. He put all his chips here in this state.
KRISTOL: Right. So we'll see what he can then do in subsequent states. I just think it means people don't get out.
I think we all think this field has to get narrowed. I'm not sure that voters think that and I'm not sure that each of those candidates (inaudible), because I also think Cruz could do pretty well here and be pretty strong.
You know, we -- maybe this year is different from -- it certainly seems like it's been different in many way than previous years, but here's just a couple of facts. Every time since the modern primary system, '72, Republicans have nominated someone who won either Iowa or New Hampshire. Secondly in both parties, you have to have been first or second in New Hampshire to win the nomination.
It could change this year. Trump is really -- Trump is really a weird wild card.
Still, I think, you know, the fact is Cruz is sitting well having won Iowa. That is not nothing. And coming in first of second in New Hampshire would be a big deal.
ROBERTS: And then he goes into much more fertile territory for him as we go south.
STEPHANOPOULOS: March 1.
ROBERTS: That's right.
But the other thing is the rules have made it easier for people to stay in, because you don't get a winner take all primary until the middle of March. And the fact that you can have these super PACs make it easier for people to stay in, because they don't have to raise the money.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, Cokie has made an interesting point. I think March 15 you have, what, Florida and Ohio both on the same day, both winner take all. If Rubio and Kasich and maybe even Bush all stayed in and split those states, this could go straight to the convention.
DOWD: Yeah, I think this -- well, I think this goes for sure into April. I think after last night, what Jeb Bush is thinking, even if Jeb Bush finishes fourth or fifth, I think Jeb Bush is going to go on, because he's basically said, look, if this guy didn't perform well over the course of this race he's not going to perform well. I'm the guy that can step up and do that, even if Kasich finishes second here I don't think he has the resources ready to really have a full impact by March 1. Maybe later on.
But this race, both sides of this, the Democratic side and the Republican side of this, is going to go long into the spring and maybe into the early summer.
ROBERTS: I mean the Democrats.
ROBERTS: ...debates through May.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And right now you -- and the latest poll here in New Hampshire has 58 Bernie Sanders, 35 Hillary Clinton. 23 point lead for Bernie Sanders. Hard to see how she can come back from that.
BRAZILE: The Clintons are 1 for 2 in terms of winning New Hampshire. But they're two for two in terms of spinning New Hampshire.
So, my sense is that she has to close the generation gap. And clearly she has to expand the gender gap. She can do that, I think, it'll be maybe a 10 point defeat.
But they have a ground game here. And they're going to continue to move those, what I call voters who are undecided along the Massachusetts border.
I think they'll give Bernie Sanders the western part, the northern part, but they're going to make this part of the state their battleground. So we'll see.
KRISTOL: If you would have said six months ago that I think Hillary Clinton can spin a 10 point defeat to a 74 year old democratic socialist Bernie Sanders here in New Hampshire, it's really jaw dropping.
I mean, it is amazing.
I think the Trump phenomenon has been amazing, but the Sanders phenomenon in the Democratic Party is even more notable.
And I don't know why everyone kind of assumes that, well, once we get through these first two states in which Sanders has been 50/50 with Clinton and is now going to beat her presumably here, well suddenly everything is going to change.
ROBERTS: Oh, it's not. I think...
KRISTOL: I don't think it's going to change as much as people think.
ROBERTS: Oh, it's not. It's not. I think -- look, Bernie Sanders could be the Democratic nominee. That's absolutely the fact.
DOWD: Well, and then you're inviting...
DOWD: If Donald Trump and Bernie Sanders are the nominees of the major parties...
KRISTOL: Then Bloomberg runs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's for sure.
KRISTOL: That'll be a fun three-way race.
BRAZILE: You know, Wall Street is playing the same kind of partisan issue that Iraq played in 2008. It has become a very important issue for Democrats. And I think Bernie has captured that on the Democratic side.
But his ability to get independents and young people, that is really...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, what did you make of how Secretary Clinton then handled that issue this morning saying, you know, calling out Bernie Sanders, she says, for this campaign of innuendo?
BRAZILE: There's a lot of, what I call, virtual internet rabble rousing going on. And it's rattling a lot of nerves, whether it's people who are being attacked or being in the establishment, because they're a member of Planned Parenthood or the Human Rights Campaign, or lawmakers who are saying that that's not the record.
So, look, we're having our fight on the Democratic side. It's energizing, it's engaging, and you know what the race...
KRISTOL: I think whenever a candidate has to say, well, it's very complicated and I -- she does differ from Bernie Sanders on economic policy. That is a true statement. And what she should say I think if she were confident that she could win the debate in the Democratic Party is, yes, we have pretty big differences. He's a socialist. I'm a Clinton Democrat.
DOWD: I don't think she still has a good answer for this. And every time she's confronted with it, it's not a good answer.
Gandhi said integrity is when your thought and your words and your actions are in alignment. And I think there's a lot of Democratic voters out there that don't think...
ROBERTS: Wow, we have Matt Dowd quoting Gandhi.
DOWD: ...is in alignment. I think the problem is we all know, we've been involved in campaigns. We've all seen it. Is you are judged by your contributors and your friends. That doesn't go away. And Hillary Clinton, no matter what she says when she takes $20 million from Wall Street and gives speeches to Goldman Sachs, she is going to be judged by that. She has to come up with an answer...
KRISTOL: But Matt, the right answer is I am proud that under my husband's leadership this economy did well and did well for everyone. It can do well for Wall Street and for Main Street. There is a sensible Clinton Democrat answer to Bernie Sanders. And what was most striking I thought about her conversation with you is that she's not giving it.
ROBERTS: But not to mention that she was the senator from New York. What's in New York. Wall Street.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But she makes that. She makes that argument.
DOWD: That argument doesn't help.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But, you know, I want to pick up on what Bill is just saying, Donna Brazile. Is the Clinton team, once they get beyond New Hampshire, going to have to start making that argument more directly about socialism.
You've seen some of her allies, including Claire McCaskill make it. Is the Clinton campaign going to have to take it on directly?
BRAZILE: I think they will have to find a way to address the insecurities of Americans who feel that they've been left behind. At the same time, the aspirations of those who want to continue...
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's not what I asked, though.
BRAZILE: George, look, I'm neutral. I'm neutral.
DOWD: I'll be Donald Trump. She didn't answer the question.
BRAZILE: Hey, guess what (inaudible).
But as a southerner, I know Bernie Sanders is going to be able to compete in the south. And if he comes out of this state with a double digit lead in terms of his national support -- winning in New Hampshire, he's going to give them hell in the south.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Could he win South Carolina?
BRAZILE: He can get 40 percent of the vote, because the firewall will break with Millennials for Bernie Sanders.
But Hillary Clinton has a lot of strength. And I know we talk about her weaknesses a lot, but she has an incredible strong, what I call backbone. But more importantly, she has people who will stand up and fight for her down south.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, we only have 20 seconds left. I want each of you to give me the month when each nomination is going to be decided.
ROBERTS: Oh, the month. I'd say May for the Democrats. For the Republicans, June.
DOWD: I'll say April for the Democrats and May for the Republicans.
BRAZILE: I'd say April for the Republicans and May for the Democrats.
KRISTOL: I don't know. Well, after Hillary is indicted for the emails, you know, then everything will get...
ROBERTS: What are you drinking?
KRISTOL: There's an FBI investigation. We don't know what's happening.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm going to go with April...
BRAZILE: That's all fantasy football.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And the Super Bowl is tonight. We'll be right back after this from our ABC stations.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And now we honor our fellow Americans who serve and sacrifice.
In the month of January, three service members were killed overseas supporting operations in Afghanistan and Iraq.
And that is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Stay with us all through Tuesday's primary. I'll be standing by with our whole team to bring you all the results. And I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.