'This Week' Transcript: Stephanie Cutter and Kevin Madden

STRASSEL: There are cuts to providers, lower payments, which you just said, OK, one of the problems here is when you tell a provider they're going to get less money, guess what they say? We're not going to be in Medicare anymore and they jump out of the system. Who's left in the system? The doctors that are willing to get paid half as much as they were getting.

Jake Tapper: Congressman…

Van Hollen: this is actually going to the heart of the issue.

STRASSEL: Indeed.

Van Hollen: One of the things we did under Obamacare, was to get rid of the overpayments to the private insurance companies in Medicare advantage. As Austan said, they were paying --- being paid between 114, 118 percent above traditional Medicare. We use some of those savings to reinforce some of the other benefits. Under the Ryan Plan, they adopted all the cuts, but provided none of the benefits.

TAPPER: So, the second topic, is taxes, and the question, can we fix the nations finances without raising taxes? Now, I don't know if everyone knows who Grover Norquist is, but he's most famous, perhaps, for his pledge in which he gets those seeking office to pledge that they will, quote, "oppose and vote against tax increases."

Recently, some Republicans have started to publicly question the pledge, and in particular, one famous Republican family has started to do so.

Let's take a look.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Do you agree with the -- the Grover Norquist pledge?

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You know, OK, so I -- I ran for office three times. The pledge was presented to me three times. I never signed the pledge.

I cut taxes every ti -- every year I was governor. I don't believe you outsource your principles and convictions to people. You -- I -- I respect Grover's political involvement. He has every right to do it. But I never signed any pledge.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

TAPPER: And former -- former Governor Jeb Bush's father had this to say: They) "The rigidity of those pledges is something I don't like. The circumstances change and you can't be wedded to some formula by Grover Norquist. It's -- who the hell is Grover Norquist anyway?"

(LAUGHTER)

NORQUIST: One second.

(CROSSTALK)

NORQUIST: For the record...

(CROSSTALK)

NORQUIST: -- something that both Jeb Bush should have been a little bit aware of, and his father, that commitment that most Republicans who run for office make is to the American people and to the people of their state.

When George Herbert Walker Bush ran for president, he promised the American people he wouldn't raise their taxes. He lied to them. He broke his commitment to them and they threw him out of office four years later.

He -- he didn't lose the presidency because I was disappointed he raised taxes.

(LAUGHTER)

NORQUIST: He -- he lied to the American people.

TAPPER: All right. Well, Senator...

(CROSSTALK)

TAPPER: -- you've -- you've signed...

TOOMEY: Yes...

TAPPER: -- the Norquist...

TOOMEY: -- that's right.

TAPPER: -- pledge...

TOOMEY: Yes.

TAPPER: -- during the 2011 super committee negotiations. You put...

TOOMEY: Right.

TAPPER: -- revenue, taxes, on the table. are you...

TOOMEY: Well, let...

TAPPER: -- violating the Norquist pledge?

TOOMEY: Yes, let's -- let's be very clear. We are staring in the face the biggest tax increase in American history.

TAPPER: Four trillion dollars.

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