On the other hand, George, as -- as Evan said, he's a great communicator. And I think the American people know that if we keep delaying the health care discussion, if we keep delaying the cap-and- trade discussion and -- and the discussion about our environment and global warming, that that is a very, very bad thing for our grandchildren. And, also, we have to keep focused on deficit reduction.
But what you're seeing is a president that's not afraid to take on all these issues that he knows the American people want reform, they want reform on this. So it's tough. We've got to communicate clearly. We've got to make sure that we bring the American people with us, but I think we've got the right communicator to do it.
BAYH: He's got to try and do two things simultaneously, George, first, be an idealist, look at the problems that face the country and propose bold changes to deal with those. He's doing that. But at the end of the day, he also has to be a pragmatist, and you can't insist on more than the system can deliver, although you push for all that it can deliver.
And my sense of this president is that he's a very practical person. He wants results. And at the end of the day, that's what we'll deliver.
SHELBY: I think we have to be careful, not overload the economy. Our thrust should be turning the economy around, and we do that through banks, getting people back to work.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Another issue that's going to come up before the end of this year -- and we only have a couple of minutes left -- Mr. Donohue, you're going to spend about $10 million, I've read, to try to defeat this Employee Free Choice Act, which would give union -- unions the ability to organize at a plant if they could a majority of the people at the plant to sign up.
And, Senator McCaskill, let me bring you in on this. Is there anything you can say, you believe, right now, that'll convince Mr. Donohue to back off that? And do you have the votes to get this done this year?
MCCASKILL: I'm not sure that we have the votes, and I have no hope of backing Mr. Donohue off. I would say that I think it would be fair that we have a secret ballot for decertification of unions. Right now, businesses can go with a card check.
There is no secret ballot to get rid of a union, but there is a requirement of -- of that for people to be able to organize. And to me, that seems unfair. Let's -- let's -- what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let's put people on a level playing field and have both businesses have to have a secret ballot to decertify. Until they do that, I'm not sure they've got a lot of room to complaint.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You get the last word.
DONOHUE: That is another -- the loss of the secret ballot and the 16 other issues that labor unions want is another weight on this economy. What we need is a defibrillator that shocks this economy back into private -- positive action.
This president, this Congress, and the business community have to talk about positive things and a bright future. We need to stop letting everybody watch the president and all of us talk this economy into the can. Watch the market. The market goes down; liquidity goes down. We have a real challenge here, and we ought to seize it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. Sorry, Senator. Thank you all very much for a great discussion.