'This Week' Transcript: Holder and Giuliani

TAPPER: All right. Unfortunately...

GIULIANI: We need Republicans who are ideologically committed to standing up against that and really moving us in a different direction. I think that's what you see going on with the Tea Party movement. I think that's what you see going on in these -- in these elections.

TAPPER: All right, wonderful. Thank you so much, Mayor Giuliani. That's all the time we have.

GIULIANI: Thank you, Jake. Always nice to talk to you.

TAPPER: Appreciate it. Nice talking to you, sir.

The roundtable is next with George Will, Robin Wright, Shelby Steele, and John Podesta. And later, the Sunday funnies.

TAPPER: Scenes from the flash crash on Thursday. We'll get to the economy and the Greek debt crisis in a second with our roundtable. As always, George Will, Shelby Steele, author and a gentleman from the Hoover Institution, former Clinton White House chief of staff John Podesta of the Center for American Progress, and author and journalist Robin Wright of the center -- of the Institute of Peace. Did I get that right...

WRIGHT: U.S. Institute for Peace.

TAPPER: U.S. Institute for Peace. I'm sorry. I have so many organizations in my head.

We're going to get to the economy in a second, but I want to start with national security, given the conversations we just had with Attorney General Holder and Mayor Giuliani. George, what does this attempted terrorist attack say to you? What's the message from the attempted Times Square attack?

WILL: It is that the Pakistan connection, if true, is good news in the sense that it indicates the decline of the tradecraft of terrorism over time. The underwear bomber at Christmas and this man, also, are staggeringly incompetent and minor league figures compared to the amazing precision and scale of the 9/11 attacks.

Probably credit goes to both the Bush and the Obama administration for the extraordinary pressure with the drone attacks and all the rest that are being put on the Taliban and other supporters who are now footloose and having trouble coordinating.

The bad news -- if there is bad news in this -- is the targeting of Times Square. Let me tell you a story. Right after 9/11, I asked Jack Valenti, the late Jack Valenti, then chairman of the motion picture association, if he worried that someone might target Universal Studios as a symbol of Western decadence. He said, no, what worries me is six backpack bombs in six cineplexes around the country on a Saturday night. That would put huge economic damage on the movie industry. The question is, have they begun to figure that out?

TAPPER: Shelby, the ideology of Islamism still seems to be powerful even if the quality, the candidates of terrorists that the Pakistani Taliban and others are getting are not as good. The ideology seems just as strong. This guy lived, Faisal Shahzad, who we should say is innocent until proven guilty, but he's lived in the United States and had not a bad life here.

STEELE: Right, right. No, I think the ideology is the -- is the story. It's -- there's a larger clash, I think in the world, between the third world, people who were formally oppressed and so forth, who coming into freedom experience that as shame and came in, really, into a sort of confrontation with their own inferiority, their sense of inferiority. And I think jihadism is an ideology that compensates for a sense of inferiority.

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