'This Week' Transcript 7-24-22: Rep. Adam Kinzinger, Gov. Larry Hogan, Former Vice President Al Gore & Dr. Ashish Jha

This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, July 24.

ByABC News
July 24, 2022, 9:39 AM

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, July 24, 2022 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" starts right now.


JONATHAN KARL, CO-HOST (voice-over): Dereliction of duty.

UNIDENTIFIED: If we lose any more time we may lose the ability to leave.

KARL: The primetime finale of the January 6th Committee summer hearings zeroes in on Trump's actions while his supporters assaulted the Capitol.

PAT CIPOLLONE, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COUNSEL: There needed to be an immediate and forceful response.

UNIDENTIFIED: If the president had wanted to make a statement and address the American people, he could have been on camera almost instantly.

KARL: Refusing to condemn the violence or concede defeat.

DONALD TRUMP, 45TH PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: But this election is now over, Congress has certified the results -- I don't want to say the election is over.

KARL: Where does the investigation go from here? And have the hearings diminished Trump's hold on the Republican Party? Committee member Adam Kinzinger, Maryland Governor Larry Hogan, and our powerhouse "Roundtable" cover it all.


JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I'm feeling much better than I sound.

KARL: President Biden isolating at the White House under treatment for COVID-19. Dr. Ashish Jha joins us live with the latest on the president's condition.

And unprecedented heat.

BIDEN: Climate change is literally an existential threat to our nation and to world.

KARL: As fires rage and record-breaking temperatures surge around the globe, new urgency to combat the climate crisis, but is it too late and is this the new normal?


KARL: Al Gore issued a warning nearly 20 years ago, this morning we're one-on-one with the former vice president.


ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "This Week," here now, co-anchor Jonathan Karl.

KARL: Good morning, and welcome to "This Week." On January 6th the world could see that Donald Trump did nothing to stop his supporters as they assaulted the Capitol, but Thursday's primetime hearing brought us inside the West Wing to see what the former president was up to for the more than three hours the Capitol was under attack. The committee presented testimony of those who were with Trump that day and never before seen video outtakes of his anger 24 hours later as his top aides and his own family pressured him to finally condemn the violence.


TRUMP: My only goal was to ensure the integrity of the vote.


KARL: We're going to talk about the hearings and what's next for the committee with the Republican who led the questioning this week. But we begin this morning with the current president now in day three of his COVID illness, in isolation in the White House residence. Joining us now for a quick update on the president's condition is the White House COVID-19 Response Coordinator Dr. Ashish Jha.

Dr. Jha, thank you for joining us, it's day three now for the president, have you spoken to him this morning? How is he doing?

DR. ASHISH JHA, WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: Yes, I connected with his team last night, he had a great day yesterday, was feeling well. Have not connected with the president or his team this morning yet, will do so in the next hour or two.

But, look, this is a president who's double vaccinated, double boosted, getting treatments that are widely available to Americans, and has at this moment a mild respiratory illness. This is really good news, and this is both vaccines and treatments that are available to everyone. Really important that people go out and get vaccinated and avail themselves of these treatments if they get infected.

KARL: On Friday the White House revealed that the president had 17 close contacts, including White House staff, members of Congress, any word on whether any of those have now also tested positive?

JHA: Yes, as of late yesterday, again, 17 is the number that we are tracking in the White House medical unit. None of them have tested positive as of late yesterday. Obviously all those people have been contacted. They are following CDC protocol. And we'll continue to follow them.

KARL: Did -- will this result in any changes in White House protocols? I mean, the White House has loosened up quite a bit. We don't see as many masks. Obviously the White House briefing room is full. Has this caused any rethinking of that?

JHA: You know, look, the protocols around the president I think have been very tight, but this is a president who likes to get out there, meet Americans, spend time with people. The White House itself follows CDC guidelines. When Washington, D.C., is in yellow, we follow the guidelines. When it goes into orange, we go into mask-wearing for everybody. So we are very closely adhering to CDC guidelines on this.

KARL: And, Dr. Jha, we appreciate you coming in and giving us an update on the president's condition, but you're not his doctor, I mean, as you said, you don't see him in person, you haven't talked to him this morning. Why aren't we hearing from Dr. O'Connor? Why aren't we hearing from the president's physician?

JHA: Well, first of all, you are. Every single day Dr. O'Connor puts out his statement here directly, his words about his assessment of the president.

KARL: Yes, but we're not hearing -- we're not able to ask him questions. We don't -- we see a written statement, we're not actually able to question the president's doctor.

JHA: Look, what I would say, Jonathan, is that we have team of people who are involved. Dr. O'Connor and I are speaking multiple times a day. He's speaking to Dr. Fauci. We are being very transparent, probably giving updates several times a day about how the president is doing. The president has a mild respiratory illness as of right now. And in that context we are making all of that information widely available every day to the American people. And that's what Americans deserve.

KARL: All right, Dr. Jha, we hope for a quick, speedy, full recovery for the president. And we appreciate you being here with us. Thank you.

JHA: Thank you.

KARL: We turn now to the January 6th investigation. Over the course over eight public hearings, the House Select Committee has provided the clearest picture yet of Donald Trump's efforts to cling to power and overturn the presidential election. Thursday's hearing presented evidence of Trump's extraordinary inaction as Congress was under attack. Direct testimony of top aides who portrayed Trump as the only person in the White House who didn't want the attack to stop, who didn't want the rioters to go home, a portrait of a president who didn't call any national security or law enforcement officials who could have helped restore order. But a president who, while the assault was still under way, did call Republican senators and made two calls to Rudy Giuliani, the lawyer leading the effort to overturn the election.

The committee's work has brought public pressure on Attorney General Merrick Garland to step up the criminal investigation, to focus not just on the rioters but also on Trump's inner circle and Trump himself. At the conclusion of Thursday's hearing, Liz Cheney focused on something beyond the possible legal repercussions, asking fellow Republicans how they could still support Trump after all the committee has uncovered.


REP. LIZ CHENEY (R-WY), CO-CHAIR, JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE: Can a president who is willing to make the choices Donald Trump made during the violence of January 6th ever be trusted with any position of authority in our great nation again?


KARL: We're joined now by the other Republican on the committee, Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Congressman Kinzinger, let's start with what Liz Cheney said there. Are you seeing any evidence that what you've uncovered in these hearings is having an impact on your Republican colleagues in the House or on Republican voters generally?

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL), JANUARY 6TH COMMITTEE: Well, on the House I don't know, because I've been -- you know, every day I ceased to be amazed at how much they're willing to accept and not say anything. In terms of Republicans in general, you have kind of the bulk of Republican voters, this doesn't appear to be having, you know, a ton of impact, maybe people are shifting more towards a potential for, I don't know, a Ron DeSantis. Trumpism isn't dying even though Trump is becoming irrelevant.

What I'm hearing, a lot of anecdotal stuff around the edges of people who have been, you know, hard core with Trump that now just can't stand him. It's enough to make a bit of a difference within maybe a GOP primary, but I think on the bigger term it's denying anywhere near 50 percent of the American voters willing to basically go along with something like the coup on January 6th. I think though long term, Jonathan, in like five years I still believe that you're -- it's going to be hard to find somebody that will admit they were ever a trump supporter. And I think that's where this impact comes in, as future history.

KARL: And it has interesting to hear Merrick Garland as this has unfolded. This week he was quite emphatic in saying and repeating that no one is above the law. Do you think it is more likely now that we'll actually see something, again, we've never seen in American history, a former president, maybe a president candidate again, under -- being prosecuted by the Justice Department?

KINZINGER: It does -- you know, look, in the last -- we have no special indication obviously into what DoJ is doing. There are two separate investigations. But it does feel like in the last few months, since we've started presenting our evidence, that there is a significant amount more movement in DoJ. I, of course, have to wonder what were they doing the last-year-and-a-half. But, you know, I'm not going to complain because I think, look, we never want to -- and this is important, we never want to get in a position as a country, what you see in failed democracies, where every last administration is prosecuted.

But there is a massive difference between I'm going to prosecute the last administration for political vengeance and not prosecuting an administration that literally attempted a failed coup. That is a -- that is a precedent I'm way more concerned about, is, if there is evidence that this happened from a judicial perspective, if there's the ability to move forward on prosecuting, and you don't, you have basically set the floor for future behavior of any president. And I don't think a democracy can survive that.

So, I certainly hope they’re moving forward. I certainly think there’s evidence of crimes. And I think it goes all the way up to Donald Trump.

KARL: So you -- you hope that there will be a prosecution of Trump himself. Even -- I mean, this is -- I mean, you just have to take a step back here. This is a guy who is sounding like he’s going to run again, so he would be being prosecuted by the president that he is potentially running against.

KINZINGER: Sure. Look, I worry about everything that has happened for the last few years. And really I worry about everything that could happen in the future, and that includes things like, you know, what happens if a president’s running for office and he’s indicted, how does that feel?

But, the converse of that is, what happens if we don’t do anything? What happens if we look and say, well, he’s running again, we’re concerned how it’s going to look, so that, like, whole coup attempt thing, let’s just up that behind us and hope it never happens again? Because it will happen again.

KARL: There was an interesting piece on your relationship with Kevin McCarthy in “The Washington Post” by Paul Kane. And he wrote about the conference call that Republicans had on New Year’s Day, just five days before the attack on the Capitol. And this is the part that jumped out to me, you describing what you said to Kevin McCarthy.

Kevin, have you convinced -- Kevin, you have convinced half of the country that the election was stolen. There’s going to be violence.

And McCarthy’s answer: Thanks, Adam, next caller.

Just an extraordinary moment. Of course, you were -- turned out, unfortunately, to be right.

But let me ask you this. McCarthy clearly didn’t believe this stuff. Would it have been different if he had stood up and he had said, no, the election’s not stolen and pushed back on this effort or would he have just been pushed aside? Was it too late?

KINZINGER: Well, look, it would be so different right now would he have been pushed aside in the process, maybe. But the question is, what are you going to stand for in your life, you know? Are you going to go out being known as the guy that enabled a failed coup, or are you going to be the guy that goes out standing up, right? Goes out saying, I'm going to do what’s right? He -- and very likely could have survived this.

When he went to Mar-a-Lago, Jonathan, you remember this, like it was a couple week period after January 6th where there was like almost a standoff in -- among Republicans. Like, what do we do? Where do we go from here?

The second Kevin McCarthy showed up at Mar-a-Lago, taking that picture with Donald Trump, he literally resurrected him politically. He was like an ambulance driver that took those paddles and brought Donald Trump back to life. And the fear that went through the Republican ranks of, oh, no, he’s back alive again, was palatable.

When leaders -- you know, when people don’t trust somebody but they only trust a subset of certain leaders, let’s say Republican leaders, and Republican leaders don’t tell them the truth, they’re not going to believe the truth.

You’re -- ladies and gentlemen, and particularly my Republican friends, your leaders by and large have been lying to you. They know stuff that’s very different than what they’re telling you. They know the election wasn’t stolen, but they’re going to send out fundraising requests, they’re going to take your money from you and they’re going to use you to stay in power. You’re being abused.

You can be mad at Liz Cheney and I. That’s fine. We’ve been taking this for a while. We’re not the ones lying to you. It’s the people you think are telling you what you want to hear.

They’re the liars. And Kevin McCarthy is among them.

KARL: I want to ask you about the Secret Service. Obviously, we’ve heard through mostly anonymous sources that they have some issue with Cassidy Hutchinson’s testimony. You presented some cohobating evidence. But, again, it wasn’t -- it wasn’t direct, eyewitness accounts.

Why have you not talked -- spoken yet to the lead detail who was in that vehicle on January 6th with Donald Trump or the driver of that vehicle? And is that going to come?

KINZINGER: Yes, you -- that’s a question you have to ask the Secret Service. You have to ask those particular people.

Look --


KARL: So, they’re refusing that --

KINZINGER: The door’s wide open.


KARL: They’re refusing to cooperate? Because they -- because they put out statements saying they’re more than willing to testify under oath.

KARL: Are they not?

KINZINGER: Yes, we -- I will tell you this much, the committee, there’s always back and forth negotiations. The committee is more than welcome, if they will testify under oath, to throw the doors wide open for them and welcome them at any moment. It is not our decision that they haven’t so far.

What we have is a very credible witness in Cassidy Hutchinson, talk about what she had heard. She’s just saying, hey, this is what had been told to me. She did it under oath, in front of millions and millions of people.

And you hear anonymous sources, some which may actually be the people of interest themselves, coming forward and saying, oh, no, that’s not true -- but unwilling to do it under oath.

Now, this is all a side show, the question of what happened in the limo, but it does go to the fact that what Donald Trump and his people do is they try to say somebody begged them for a job, or somebody begged them for an endorsement, or this little part of the story isn’t true, to try to discredit a witness, and they’re failing at this, too. They are flailing around.

Cassidy Hutchinson will go down in history as a hero, and she never sought to. She’s just a young woman telling the truth with more courage than the vast majority of men in politics today.

KARL: And just quickly, we heard audio clips of the Secret Service radio traffic. I mean that was extraordinary. Is there more of that to come? Do you have more – access to more of that?

KINZINGER: Yes, we do. I mean, look, we have access to – to, at least from what we understand, all of it. And we understand with the text message situation, you know what’s going on there. There’s some stuff that we – we still need to get. So, as far as we know, we have everything. We’ve presented just bits of that. And I think both the report and any future hearings we can explore in more depth all of that.

But I think it’s clear that they were very worried for the life of the vice president and the president of the United States sat in the dining room and said, let’s see where this goes. And when he finally realized it wouldn’t work, then he gave a mealy mouth statement saying, oh, you guys should go home.

KARL: And before you go, your reaction to Steve Bannon found guilty?

KINZINGER: It’s good. I mean justice, right. All – we – come in. you can plead the Fifth if you want in front of our committee, but you can’t ignore a congressional subpoena, or you’ll pay the price. That’s to any future witnesses too.

KARL: All right, Adam Kinzinger, thank you for joining us.

Coming up, Donald Trump and Mike Pence facing off with competing endorsements in a key Republican primary just days away. The roundtable takes on what it can mean for the future of the Republican Party.

And later, with millions of Americans experiencing triple digit heat this week, former Vice President Al Gore joins us to discuss the global climate crisis.

We’re back in just 60 seconds.



MIKE PENCE, FORMER U.S. VICE PRESIDENT: When you get out and vote for Karrin Taylor Robson, you can send a deafening message that will be heard all across America that the Republican Party is the party of the future.

DONALD TRUMP, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Rusty Bowers, he's a rhino coward who participated against the Republican Party in the totally partisan, unselect committee. A political thugs and hacks the other day and he disgraced himself and he disgraced the state of Arizona.


KARL: Conflicting rallies and conflicting messages from Donald Trump and Mike Pence in the race to be the Republican nominee for Arizona’s next governor.

Let's talk about that and more with our roundtable.

Former DNC chair Donna Brazile, “Wall Street Journal” White House reporter Catherine Lucey, ABC News congressional correspondent, the great Rachel Scott, and former New Jersey Governor Chris Christie.

So, Governor Christie, let me start with you.

First of all, the message is quite stark there.


KARL: You have Pence talking about the future, talking about the candidate, and Donald Trump attacking fellow Republicans and talking about the past.

CHRISTIE: Yes. Look, the party has a fundamental decision to make, and that is, are we going to be the party of me or the party of us? And Trump is the party of me. And as you saw from his comments, it's all about him. It's all about 2020. It's all about him. You know, you don't hear him mention anything about what's going on in the country, about what our ideas should be to try to solve the problems the county is facing and all the rest. And, you know, this is going to continue because I know him. He'll never let it go, Jon. And you know him, too. He will never let this go.

KARL: But – but are you seeing any sign that his hold is weakening? I mean look what happened in Maryland. Look what happened in Pennsylvania.


KARL: His guys are winning these races. I mean not all of them.

CHRISTIE: Well, look – no, not all of them.

KARL: Not all of them.

CHRISTIE: Look, and as I’ve been saying since January of '21, this is going to happen slowly and incrementally. And you’re not going to see it until after it’s already happened and it’s already over. And the reason for that is the same thing that happened in 2016, right? In 2016 it wasn't politically correct to say you were voting for Donald Trump. So he performed much lower in the polls than he wound up doing.

Now, in Republican primary polling, it's not politically correct to say you’re against Donald Trump or you’re for someone else. I think his numbers are artificial high. And I think this is happening slowly but surely in the party. And, look, what happened this week and the replay of that 187 minutes of what he was doing, I think, will have long-term, not 2022 impact, but 2024 impact.

KARL: And, Rachel, I've got to say, it was interesting to see the reaction to Pence, more than what he actually said, but the reaction. He got a warm welcome from Arizona Republicans. And you saw he got, behind closed doors, but a very warm welcome from House Republicans. This is the guy who's been demonized by Donald Trump, basically getting applauded and thanked for his courage by House Republicans. Explain that.

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And some of the most conservative House Republicans here. We have Congressman Chip Roy standing up during this meeting behind closed doors, thanking Mike Pence for his, quote, "courage on January 6th." One member told me that frankly every single person in the room applauded. This is several dozen House Republicans.

KARL: Conservative group.

SCOTT: Conservative group. And when they were leaving I had an opportunity to talk to many of these Republicans. And they liked that Mike Pence came with a plan, a direction about where he believes the Republican Party should be headed, not only after the midterms but in 2024 and beyond. And they liked what they heard. But the big question is, is whether or not Republicans, the base, is going to like what they see in Mike Pence. He's clearly laying the groundwork, a path for something beyond 2022.

KARL: Donna, we're going to talk to Larry Hogan, Republican governor of Maryland, shortly. He just suffered a big loss -- you could say, maybe -- well, he would say "sane Republicans" suffered a loss in Maryland. Donald Trump's candidate, who had bused people in, literally sent buses to bring people to January 6th, who had called Mike Pence a traitor as the riot was under way, he's now the Republican nominee. And he became the Republican nominee with support, millions of dollars of support, from the Democratic Governors Association, who are trying to nominate, I guess, the more beatable candidate.

Isn't that dangerous?

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, well, look, the politics today in America is that you -- you want to pick your opponent. Republicans sometimes try to pick their Democratic opponents and Democrats try to pick their Republican opponent. I don't like the strategy, but that's the -- that's the history.

Look, Democrats have one of the best tickets I have ever seen in my life in Maryland, and it's going to be an interesting race. But I want to go back to something the governor said. Donald Trump is the face of the Republican Party. He is the leader of the Republican Party. He's the leader of the MAGA movement. He is defining what's at stake in November, not Mike Pence. Mike Pence is trying to lay the groundwork possibly for 2024, but Mike Pence, right now, is the, quote/unquote, the "sane alternative" to Donald Trump. I don't know if that's going to play, you know, come November, when Donald Trump continues to suck the oxygen out of the room and he is continuing to define this election about the previous election. And elections are about the future.

KARL: And, Catherine, we had an interesting poll, New York Times/Siena poll, about the potential Republican 2024 primary. And take a look at this. You've got Trump far and away the lead candidate but with less than 50 percent, barely less than 50 percent, but still -- still, you know, far and away the leading candidate for -- for the Republican nomination.

CATHERINE LUCEY, WALL STREET JOURNAL WHITE HOUSE REPORTER: Yeah, just shy of 50 percent, which should give some of his opponents pause. But I think, to Chris's point, a lot of people right now are preparing for two years out, preparing for '24, and it's not really clear how voters are going to shake out yet. So certainly polling shows that it doesn't seem so far like the January 6th hearings have moved a lot of people, you know, people's minds have been made up.

But is there some sort of fatigue or frustration with Trump starting to seep in, right? Are there some people, you know, some sort of more moderate Trump supporters, Republican-leaning independents, who are increasingly interested in seeing what the alternatives are?

And as you can see from this poll, there's lots of alternatives.

KARL: Well, what's interesting, Donna, is the same poll showed that, while it may slowly be seeping in with Republicans, it's -- it's coming right in with Democrats, 64 percent of Democrats saying they don't want Joe Biden to run for re-election.

BRAZILE: I saw that poll and I said, you know what, that poll reflects a lot of the frustrations that Democrats are feeling right now. It's not just gas prices and what's happening when you go to the grocery store. It's -- it's a generational shift that you're seeing. The Democrats want somebody different. But you know what, right now they have a president who's been standing up for -- not just standing up for our basic rights, our basic values, and while there are many people who are frustrated that we're not fighting hard enough, tough enough, Joe Biden has been leading us during a very difficult period.

CHRISTIE: Listen, Donna's doing her best...


CHRISTIE: ... and I appreciate that.


CHRISTIE: You are. You're doing your best. But when 64 percent of your own party says, a year and a half into your presidency, "Thanks, but no thanks," that does reflect, I agree with you, the frustrations of Democrats, some because they don't think he's done enough and some because they think he's done too much. And so you've got kind of the Manchin wing of the party, the more moderate wing of the party who is saying, you know, slow down here, look at this inflation, look at the kitchen table issues that the Democrats are losing on right now. And then you've got the progressive wing of the party who says we need to do more and you've blown these opportunities. Joe Biden is in no man's land. He can't keep the moderates happy. He can't keep the progressives happy. And that's an awful place to be as an office-holder when you don't have anybody.

The last thing I'd say to you, Jon, quickly, is that for Democrats, they would love to make 2022 about Donald Trump. They would love to. But it's not about Donald Trump. It's about inflation. It's about gas prices. It's about crime in the streets if you're in New York or Washington or Boston or Chicago or Los Angeles, San Francisco, it's about crime. And Democrats are not doing well on those issues.


KARL: Which is why your friends don't want him to announce he's running for president in the middle of this fall campaign.

CHRISTIE: Nor do I. My friends nor me.

KARL: Nor you.


LUCEY: No, I was going to say, also, I think Democrats, and we've heard this for months, we did polling on this and reporting out in the field on this, they are raising concerns about the president's age. I mean, he is the oldest president. He will be -- he turns 80 this fall. He will be older and if he takes another, and that is -- no one's saying that they don't think he is capable of doing his job currently, but that is something that is clearly on -- when you talk to Democrats and when look at the polling, it is something that is on Democrats' minds.

KARL: Is the expectation among Democrats you're talking to that he -- he's going to run again?

SCOTT: I think it depends on who you -- who you talk to. I think many are following the cues that the president is saying that if he feels the way that he does now, he will, in fact, run. But I think privately when you talk to a lot of aides in the Democratic Party, lot of members privately they have some concerns about whether or not he is going to run, how quickly he's going to make that decision possibly, if he ends up being on the fence, and who maybe would step into that place. And making sure that they have enough time.

KARL: Because it will be a free-for-all if he doesn't run.

SCOTT: And making sure they have enough time to actually build up the support.


CHRISTIE: But Gavin Newsom is not following the signals, by the way.

KARL: Yes, yes...

CHRISTIE: He doesn't care what Joe Biden is doing, he's already running ads in Florida and other places...

BRAZILE: No, he's taking on...

CHRISTIE: ... to show he's the guy.

BRAZILE: ... Republican governors who have been inept at protecting the freedoms and rights of all Americans.

CHRISTIE: Donna, he's running for president, come on.

BRAZILE: You know what, Chris? Not everyone...

CHRISTIE: He's running for president.

BRAZILE: Fortunately -- fortunately there are Republican governors in those states that...

CHRISTIE: He's running against -- he's making sure that what Abbott is doing, what DeSantis -- he's exposing Republicans for who they truly are.

KARL: So I want to turn...

CHRISTIE: He's running for president.

KARL: I want to turn to the hearings, and one specific thing in the hearings was Josh Hawley, of course, you know, rose -- raised the fist to the rioters right before the attack. Hawley addressed the fact that he became a central figure for a moment in this hearing. Take a listen to this.


SEN. JOSH HAWLEY (R), MISSOURI: I objected on January 6th last year to the state of Pennsylvania. I do not regret it. And I am not backing down. I'm not going apologize. I'm not going to cower. I'm not going to run from you.


KARL: I'm not going to run from you, but remember what they showed in the hearing, they showed the images of Hawley as the riot was under way running away. I mean, running from them. Running from the Trump supporters that were invading the Capitol. How damaging is that, Chris, to...

CHRISTIE: Well, you know, Missouri is the Show Me State, right? And what they're showing us is Josh Hawley and Eric Greitens and a number of politicians who say one thing, try to pretend to be one thing, but then their actions show another. I think what Josh Hawley did on January 6th was awful. And I'm not talking about the running. I'm talking about the fist pumping. The running was common sense, because he's running from a riot that he helped to move along through his, you know, his fist pump to them earlier in the day.

KARL: It's extraordinary not to have any regrets for that. I mean, he...

CHRISTIE: Listen, he's talking to Turning Point. And he's trying to play to the crowd. There's a big audience of young Republicans there. And he's trying to play to that audience. It says less about him than his cynicism. And he's cynical, he's a cynical guy, and that was a cynical play.

SCOTT: But especially when you had a Capitol police officer tell the committee that they felt like that riled up the crowd that day. I mean, we're talking about the Republican Party, the party of law enforcement here.

BRAZILE: Law and order.

SCOTT: And there was audible laughter, people laughed in the hearing room when they saw that image of him fleeing.

BRAZILE: I won't ever forget that. I will never forget how he ran. But he ran away from his oath of office. He ran away from the rule of law. He ran away from a mob that, as you said, and I like the way you put it, that he helped to mobilize and excite. So while he doesn't think he has to stand before the American people, the American people are watching.

KARL: We also had Steve Bannon, guilty of two counts of contempt. Sentencing isn't until October. But he could face up to two years, minimum of 30 days for each count. How significant is this, Rachel, in terms of congressional oversight?

SCOTT: I think that this sends a message, especially as these hearings are continuing into September now and the committee is going to continue to do their work, that if you do not comply, you will face the consequences to a certain extent, right? And we also heard those strong words from the attorney general this week, saying, no one is above the law, not even the former president.

KARL: He's going to appeal of course, he says. I mean --

CHRISTIE: I don't think he goes anywhere on the appeal. I think he got badly, ill-advised up front. He should have gone to the hearing, and invoked the executive privilege and/or the Fifth Amendment. And then he wouldn’t be suspect to any of this.

I hope people understand -- this is not to compel him to testify.

KARL: Right, they can’t do that.

CHRISTIE: They couldn’t do that. This is just to compel him to appear.

KARL: Yeah.

CHRISTIE: So, if he would have appeared and said, the President Trump has invoked executive privilege, I’m going to honor it, and I have a Fifth Amendment right and I’m not going to violate that, he wouldn’t be in a position he’s in. But look --

KARL: But he was using this to raise money.


SCOTT: He'll continue to.

CHRISTIE: This is Steve Bannon being Steve Bannon, OK? He’s got to make a living somehow. It certainly isn’t as a fashion model.

So, he's going to make it somehow, and he’s making it by inciting people this way, and, you know, he said -- I thought he was interesting, he said the congressional members of the committee were cowers who didn't come and testify at the trial. Well, neither did he.

KARL: Right, right.

LUCEY: Chris, I think those fashion -- I think fashion models are going to be wearing three shirts at once on the runway this fall, right? But certainly, Bannon is going to continue to use this fund-raise and burnish his credentials and promote himself to the MAGA crowd.

KARL: But this gets to something that's interesting about this committee and the legacy of this community. You had this case. You had the case over the presidential records that went all the way to the Supreme Court.

They got -- Donald Trump could not hide behind executive privilege as a former president. These are -- these are -- this is a legacy that will go far beyond this committee the issue of January 6th, you know, congressional subpoenas, now we see have the force of law.

DONNA BRAZILE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: And, look, Peter Navarro is going to face the same music that Steve Bannon --

KARL: Right, he's up next.

BAZILE: Right. And, look, 62 court cases, let’s add that to the docket. You know, people often talk about the Gore campaign. We tried to get people to, you know, to count their votes. And when the Supreme Court rendered their decision we're like, that's it, it's over.

KARL: Right.

BRAZILE: This is a party led by a president who lost that is continuing to inflict huge damage on our democracy. And what happened in this case with Steve Bannon, he’s using this as a PR fund-raising stunt. What happened is that the American people are seeing that no one is above the law.

CHRISTIE: And, Jon, I just say, look, you can't tag this on the party because Doug Ducey certified those results in Arizona. You had Governor --

KARL: Kemp in --

CHRISTIE: Kemp in Georgia. Both of them have sustained enormous hits from the president.

But remember something about the Republican Party, Brian Kemp has been hit by the president, he won his primary, his primary by 51 points over the Trump-endorsed candidate. This is not the whole party. This is a part of the party.

KARL: All right. That is all the time we have now.

Coming up, at least 120 Republican nominees on Chris' point on the ballot this November have denied the results of 2020 election. The fallout from that hit Maryland hard this week. We'll discuss the results with that state’s governor, Larry Hogan, next.


KARL: Governor Larry Hogan is here, ready to go.

We'll be right back.



SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): It was obvious that only President Trump could end this. He was the only one.

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R-CA): The president bears responsibility for Wednesday's attack on Congress by mob rioters. He should have immediately denounced the mob when he saw what was unfolding.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You’ve got an assault going on, on the Capitol of the United States of America. And there’s nothing. No call. Nothing. Zero.


KARL: Pointed criticism of Donald Trump presented by the January 6th committee in Thursday's hearing.

My next guest, Maryland’s Republican Governor Larry hogan has been one of Trump's loudest GOP critics.

Governor Hogan, thank you for joining us on THIS WEEK.


KARL: I'm going to start with the hearings. We hear that Donald Trump is upset that he doesn't see Republicans out on television responding to the hearings, defending him. Why – why is that Republican leaders have been essentially silent as these hearings have unfolded?

HOGAN: Well, it's disappointing. I mean the – the clips that you just showed, that was how they really felt right after it happened. And, since then, there's been a lot of silence.

But, you know, I was -- while people were talking about it, I was actually taking action. While the president was watching television and while the vice president was being whisked off to save his life and members of Congress, I was on the phone with the leaders of Congress. I was calling up the National Guard. I was sending in the Maryland State Police. We were talking to the mayor of D.C. I mean, we were taking action for that whole three hours while the president was watching television.

KARL: And he wasn't making a single call to do something.

HOGAN: Didn't make a single call.

KARL: Not one.

HOGAN: We had security team meetings. We called everybody together. It was, you know, mass chaos. We had the leaders of Congress begging for help. We were sending in the State Police riot team, which were one of the first to arrive after the Metropolitan Police, Maryland National Guard, the first to arrive after D.C. We couldn't get approval from the secretary of defense. It was crazy.

KARL: What did you think of those outtakes that showed him 24 hours later, still angry, not wanting to condemn the violence, and refusing to say the election was over, on January 7th?

HOGAN: Well, I thought that was, for me -- you know, I knew most of the stuff that was -- you know, nothing really surprised me except those outtakes I had never seen. And it showed the real thinking, you know. I was saying, you know, that he needed to step aside and let Mike Pence finish out the administration so we can have a peaceful transfer of power. He was, you know, with those outtakes, you could see the anger. You could see exactly what he was thinking. And that was the most moving part of the hearing for me.

KARL: And the final message he did was three minutes long. I'm told it took about an hour for him to get through it...


KARL: ... as they were going back and forth.

So -- so I want to ask you about what happened in Maryland. You had the Republican primary. You and I had spoken about it, I think it was back in April.

HOGAN: Yeah.

KARL: And you described Dan Cox as a "whack job," I think was -- was your word, or "nut job."

HOGAN: I think I said "QAnon whack job."

KARL: OK, "QAnon whack job."


He won, and he won decisively, with Donald Trump's endorsement. You -- you obviously did not endorse him. What -- what happened? Why...

HOGAN: Well, it was, kind of, unprecedented collusion between the Democratic Governors Association and Donald Trump. And both of them were promoting a conspiracy theory believing kind of nut job. And DGA, I think, spent about $3 million. The guy only spent $100,000 on his campaign. So it was a win for the Democrats. It's a big loss for the Republican Party. And we have no chance of saving that governor's seat. We actually had a chance if they hadn't gotten together and done that.

KARL: Let's -- let's play a section of what the Democratic Governors Association, one of the ads that they ran effectively to promote Dan Cox...

HOGAN: Right.

KARL: ... to Republican voters. Listen to this.


ANNOUNCER: Meet Dan Cox, Donald Trump's hand-picked candidate for Maryland governor. Cox worked with Trump, trying to prove the last election was a fraud. Dan Cox, too close to Trump, too conservative for Maryland.


KARL: So, definitely a cynical effort, no question. It arguably worked. He did win. But everything in that ad is true. I mean...

HOGAN: Yeah.

KARL: ... Republican voters -- Republican voters in your state responded to it.

HOGAN: Yeah, no, well, it was a very small turnout. So, first of all, only 20 percent of the people in Maryland are Republican, and 20 percent of them showed up to the polls. So about 2 percent of the people in Maryland voted for this guy. It's not going to be the same in November, I can tell you that. So it's not a big win. It's really a loss. And we're just going to have to wait a few months to...

KARL: And you definitely won't support him. You'll...


KARL: You'll...

HOGAN: I would not support the guy. I wouldn't let him in the governor's office, let alone vote for him for the governor's office.

KARL: You also told me, back in April, that these Republican primaries coming up, quote, "are going to determine what the Republican Party looks like." We're through a lot of them. It hasn't...

HOGAN: You know, it's -- look, I said in November, right after -- in November of '20, right after the election, I spoke at the Reagan Institute here in D.C., and I was the first person to say that this is going to be a fight for the heart and soul of the Republican Party and it was going to be a long, tough fight, but that it was -- "Time For Choosing" was the name of the speech that I gave.

And we're not there yet. I mean, it's -- we're only a year into the battle. We have two more -- more than, you know, two years until the next election. But it's not going to be easy. We're going to win some; we're going to lose some. But I think the final chapter, you know, on some of this, will be in November, when we lose some races. You know...


HOGAN: ... Trump already cost us the White House, the Senate, the House. Now he's costing us governor seats and Senate seats.

KARL: So do you think he runs in 2024?

HOGAN: You know, only -- I can't really put myself into the mind of Donald Trump. But I would say it's 50/50. His -- his ego probably, you know, can't take another loss. After all, he lost to Joe Biden, which is hard to do. But he likes to be the center of attention.

KARL: And what does it mean for these midterm elections if he announces he's running in the middle of the fall campaign -- this fall campaign?

HOGAN: Well, we've -- we had discussions about that at the Republican Governors Association last week. And I think most people are very concerned about the damage it does to the party if he announces now. And, you know, it may help in very red states or very red districts, but in competitive places and purple battlefields, it's going to cost us seats if he were to do that.

KARL: And does what happened in Maryland -- I mean, it was a loss for you. I mean, you weren't on the ballot...

HOGAN: Yeah.

KARL: ... but it was a loss for you. Does this make you more or less likely to run for president in 2024?

HOGAN: Well, it makes me more determined than ever to continue the battle to win the -- you know, win over the Republican Party and take us back to a bigger tent, more Reagan-esque party. Our -- we've got our work cut out for us. But I'm certainly not giving up.

KARL: All right. Governor Larry Hogan, thank you for joining us.

HOGAN: Thank you.

KARL: Up next, hundreds of millions around the world are experiencing record-breaking heat waves. We'll talk with the man who has been raising alarm about climate change for decades, former Vice President Al Gore joins us next.



GORE: It's already right here. Look how far above the natural cycle this is. And we've done that. But, ladies and gentlemen, in the next 50 years, really in less than 50 years, it's going to continue to go up. When some of these children who are here are my age, here's what it's going to be in less than 50 years. Within less than 50 years it will be here.


KARL: Former Vice President Al Gore discussing rising CO2 levels in his documentary "An Inconvenient Truth which debuted over 16 years ago. The film was credited with raising global awareness about the dangers of climate change. And the years since have seen increasing extreme weather patterns. This week brought another round of record-breaking heat and triple-digit temperatures across the United States and Europe as wildfires rage. And London reached the hottest temperature ever recorded, 104 degrees in London.

The former vice president joins me right now.

Vice President Gore, thank you for being here with me.

AL GORE, FORMER VICE PRESIDENT: Thank you for inviting me, Jonathan.

KARL: So, I want to ask you -- obviously, there's a difference between weather and climate. But how much of this extreme weather that we've been seeing do you think is effectively here to stay is as a result of climate change?

GORE: Well, the scientists have predicted these extraordinary and catastrophic events for going on decades now. And the fact that they were dead right, maybe a little conservative even in their projections, should cause us to pay more careful attention to what they're warning us about now, Jonathan. They're saying that if we don't stop using our atmosphere as an open sewer and if we don't have stop these heat-trapping emissions, things are going to get a lot worse. More people will be killed and the survival of our civilization is at stake.

You know, if you'll permit me, Jonathan, behind me, you see a picture from the International Space Station that shows how thin the atmosphere is. We're putting another 162 million tons of it until every day using it as an open sewer. And the accumulated amount now traps as much extra heat as would be released by 6,000 Hiroshima-class atomic bombs.

That's why the heat records are being broken all the time. That’s why the storms are stronger, why the ice is melting and the sea levels are rising, and why the droughts and fires are hitting us so hard and so many other consequences. And they're predicting now up to a billion climate refugees crossing international borders in this century. We have got to act.

KARL: This is all -- this is much of what we talked about for years but certainly in “Inconvenient Truth”. We’ve heard from President Biden, he's called climate change an emergency. He's called it a clear and present danger. But he has stopped short from declaring a national emergency.

What is your sense? Is it time for the president to declare that climate change is a national emergency?

GORE: Well, Mother Nature has declared it already a global emergency and I’ll leave it to others to parse the pros and cons of what an emergency declaration would lead to. But there are other things he can do right now. The EPA can take action to further limit emissions from power plants and from tail pipes, and the Supreme Court decision did not take all their power away.

We could stop allowing oil and gas drilling on public lands and we could -- he could appoint a new head of the World Bank instead of the climate denier that leads it now appointed by his predecessor.

KARL: But he's also facing a challenge here, really the front line issue going into midterms is rising gas prices, part of it due to the war in Ukraine and he's gone. He's encouraged the Saudis to produce more oil. He's talked about expanding domestic oil production, getting more offshore oil drilling in the United States.

I mean, you understand why he's doing this. They're desperate to get gas prices down. But isn't this counterproductive in terms of the climate agenda?

GORE: Well, we need to avoid confusing the short term with the long term. That's different from investing billions in new fossil fuel infrastructure and new oil and gas drilling that would not do anything to help the current crisis or to help gasoline prices for that matter, but would guarantee increased emissions in the years ahead.

You know, the International Energy Agency has said that we should have zero new drilling for oil and gas reserves. We’ve already got enough to incinerate the planet. We're seeing this global emergency play out and it's getting worse more quickly than was predicted.

We have got to step up. This should be a moment for a global epiphany and the voters and the publics in countries around the world need to put a lot more pressure on their political leaders.

Don't forget the fact that all 50 of the Republican senators have been against doing anything on climate, even though the vast majority of the American people want it.

KARL: Before you go, I’m sure you heard your name invoked in the January 6 -- latest January 6th committee hearing. Matt Pottinger talking about your speech conceding the 2000 election as really a model of how American democracy is supposed to work.

What has your reaction been watching these hearings and what kind of an impact do you think they’re going to have?

GORE: Well, I – I would like to say that Bennie Thompson and Liz Cheney and every single member of that committee have performed an amazing service to our democracy. I think these hearings have been the most persuasive and effective since the Watergate hearings so long ago. And I think we're seeing a huge impact on public opinion in our country, too. They've done an incredible job.

KARL: Did you ever, in the time since that speech that you gave, conceding an election, ii don’t need to remind you, you won the popular vote, you were within a few hundred votes in Florida, you were – you were challenging, pushing for recounts. When – when it was over, you conceded and then you presided over George W. Bush's electoral certification, the certification of his victory, watching what you saw unfold, did you think back to that?

GORE: Well, of course. But all I did is what Winston Churchill once said about the American people. The American people generally do the right thing after first exhausting every available alternative. And that’s really all I did. The Constitution required a -- what – what I did and there's nothing really extraordinary about it.

Was it personally difficult? Well, you know, when – when the fate of the country and the traditions and honor of our democracy are at stake, it's not really a difficult choice.

KARL: All right, Vice President Gore, it's great to talk with you again. Thank you for joining us on THIS WEEK.

GORE: Thank you very much.

KARL: We'll be right back.


KARL: That’s all for us today. Thank you for sharing part of your Sunday with us.

Check out "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT." And have a great day.