Matt Damon opens up about Harvey Weinstein, sexual harassment and confidentiality agreements
Damon opened up about Weinstein and others on "Popcorn With Peter Travers."
— -- Matt Damon addressed the sexual allegations against Harvey Weinstein, saying, āI knew I wouldnāt want him married to anyone close to me.ā
āBut that was the extent of what we knew. I mean, and that wasnāt a surprise to anybody. So when you hear Harvey this, Harvey that ā I mean, look at the guy. Of course heās a womanizer,ā Damon continued in an interview for ABC Newsā āPopcorn With Peter Travers.ā
Damon, who stars in the upcoming film āDownsizing,ā worked with Weinstein on his Oscar-winning film āGood Will Hunting,ā which was produced by Weinsteinās production company Miramax.
In the past year, several women have publicly accused Weinstein of sexual misconduct. Weinstein has acknowledged inappropriate behavior but has denied any allegations of nonconsensual sex.
āAny allegations of nonconsensual sex are unequivocally denied by Mr. Weinstein. Mr. Weinstein has further confirmed that there were never any acts of retaliation against any women for refusing his advances,ā his spokesman previously said.
In a wide-ranging discussion with Travers on Tuesday, Damon opened up about Weinstein and others inside and outside the entertainment world who have been publicly accused of sexual misconduct this year.
Read part of Damonās conversation with Travers below.
Peter Travers: We live now in a different age, in a political age. Thereās a lot of dissidence that goes on in the world that could affect you as an actor. Weāre also in the age of people charged with sexual misconduct. This is everywhere. How do you react to that? Especially you, as the father of four girls.
Matt Damon: I think weāre in this watershed moment. I think itās great. I think itās wonderful that women are feeling empowered to tell their stories, and itās totally necessary ā¦ I do believe that thereās a spectrum of behavior, right? And weāre going to have to figure ā you know, thereās a difference between, you know, patting someone on the butt and rape or child molestation, right? Both of those behaviors need to be confronted and eradicated without question, but they shouldnāt be conflated, right? You know, we see somebody like Al Franken, right? ā I personally would have preferred if they had an Ethics Committee investigation, you know what I mean? Itās like at what point ā you know, weāre so energized to kind of get retribution, I think.
And we live in this culture of outrage and injury, and, you know, that weāre going to have to correct enough to kind of go, āWait a minute. None of us came here perfect.ā You know what I mean? ā¦ The Louis C.K. thing, I donāt know all the details. I donāt do deep dives on this, but I did see his statement, which kind of, which [was] arresting to me. When he came out and said, āI did this. I did these things. These women are all telling the truth.ā And I just remember thinking, āWell, thatās the sign of somebody who ā well, we can work with thatā ā¦ Like, when Iām raising my kids, this constant personal responsibility is as important as anything else they learn before they go off in the world.
And the fear for me is that right now, weāre in this moment where at the moment ā and I hope it doesnāt stay this way ā the clearer signal to men and to younger people is, deny it. Because if you take responsibility for what you did, your lifeās going to get ruined ā¦
I mean, look, as I said, all of that behavior needs to be confronted, but there is a continuum. And on this end of the continuum where you have rape and child molestation or whatever, you know, thatās prison. Right? And thatās what needs to happen. OK? And then we can talk about rehabilitation and everything else. Thatās criminal behavior, and it needs to be dealt with that way. The other stuff is just kind of shameful and gross, and I just think ā¦ I donāt know Louis C.K.. Iāve never met him. Iām a fan of his, but I donāt imagine heās going to do those things again. You know what I mean? I imagine the price that heās paid at this point is so beyond anything that he ā I just think that we have to kind of start delineating between what these behaviors are.
PT: Itās harder, isnāt it, though, when you actually know someone who gets accused? We both know Harvey Weinstein. Iāve worked with him. But I didnāt see any of this.
MD: When you see Al Franken taking a picture putting his hands on that womanās flak jacket and mugging for the camera, going like that, you know, that is just like a terrible joke, and itās not funny. Itās wrong, and he shouldnāt have done that ā¦ But when you talk about Harvey and what heās accused of, there are no pictures of that. He knew he was up to no good. Thereās no witnesses. Thereās no pictures. Thereās no braggadocio ā¦ So they donāt belong in the same category.
PT: I think it becomes for all of us, too, that are in any way around it, even though weāre not seeing it, is, whatās our responsibility to make sure it doesnāt happen?
MD: A lot of people said, āWell, Harvey ā everybody knew.ā As you were saying, thatās not true. Everybody knew what kind of guy he was in the sense that if you took a meeting with him, you knew that he was tough and he was a bully, and that was his reputation. And he enjoyed that reputation, because he was making the best movies out there ā¦
[With regard to the rape allegations,] nobody who made movies for him knew ā¦ Any human being would have put a stop to that, no matter who he was. They wouldāve said absolutely no. You know what I mean? ā¦ I knew I wouldnāt want him married to anyone close to me. But that was the extent of what we knew, you know? And that wasnāt a surprise to anybody. So when you hear Harvey this, Harvey that ā I mean, look at the guy. Of course heās a womanizer ā¦ I mean, I donāt hang out with him.
PT: But you canāt live his life for him. Or be responsible for his life.
MD: Right. So the question is, at what point does somebodyās behavior that you have a professional relationship with ā¦ away from the profession bother enough that you donāt want to work with them? For me, Iāve always kind of, you know, as long as nobodyās committing a crime ā well, thatās your life, and you go live it. I donāt need to be spending time with you, away from my professional life, at least.
PT: [Weāve seen] Ridley Scott, who directed you in āThe Martian,ā having to erase Kevin Spacey from āAll the Money in the Worldā and having to replace him with Christopher Plummer.
MD: That was smart. That was a total business decision by Ridley. I havenāt talked to him, but ā¦ it wasnāt a creative choice for Ridley. Ridley has a big movie coming out ā¦ and nobody right now is in the mood to see a Kevin Spacey movie.
And I think heās right about that. Heās one of the few directors who could just turn on a dime and shoot for a week a month before a movie comes out and, you know, expunge an actor. And I donāt disagree with his decision to do that. I mean, that movie, I think, will do much better without Kevin in it.
[Editorās note: In response to the allegations against him made by Anthony Rapp, Kevin Spacey released a statement on Oct. 29, saying, in part, āIām beyond horrified to hear his story. I honestly do not remember the encounter ā¦ But if I did behave then as he describes, I owe him the sincerest apology for what would have been deeply inappropriate drunken behavior.ā In November a spokesperson for Spacey said he was ātaking the time necessary to seek evaluation and treatment.ā]
PT: When itās in that gray area and itās friends of yours or people that you do know, do you try to talk to them afterwards and say, āWhatās going on? Can I help?ā
MD: It depends on what the accusation is. It depends whatās going on. If itās a friend of mine, Iām always talking to them. I know the real story if itās my friend. If itās a colleague ā¦ I donāt know ā¦ I guess it depends on the situation and the allegation and how believable I think it is.
PT: Weāre going to see the change in the making of movies now with people being so aware.
MD: I also think the day of the confidentiality agreements is over. I think itās just completely over. Ten years ago, you made a claim against me and I had a big movie coming out, OK? I have $100 million or I have a movie that is personally important to me coming out, and close to the release of that film, you say, āMatt Damon grabbed my butt and stuck his tongue down my throat.ā We would then go to mediation and organize a settlement. Iād go, āI donāt want this out there. Peterās going to go out and talk to the press and run his mouth, and itās going to be overshadowing the opening of this movie. How much money do you want?ā The lawyers would get together, and they do this cost-benefit analysis, and theyād go, āOh, this is what itās worth.ā And I look at the number and go, āOK, Iāll pay it, but you can never talk about this again. Youāre f------ lying about this, but never talk about this again.
Now ā¦ with social media, these stories get ā itās like they get gasoline poured on them. So the moment a claim is made, if you make that same claim today to me, I would be scorched earth. Iād go, āI donāt care if it costs $10 million to fight this in court with you for 10 years, you are not taking my name from me. You are not taking my name and my reputation from me. Iāve worked too hard for it. And I earned it. You canāt just blow me up like that.ā So I think once a claim is made, there will no longer be settlements. Thatās just my prediction, I mean, just based on what Iāve seen.
PT: Isnāt that a good thing? Women have been doing it, and theyāve been told they canāt express what happened to them.
MD: One hundred percent ā¦ I think that itās important, especially in that, you know, we believe every woman whoās coming forward with one of these stories needs to be listened to and heard. I think one of the surprising things for me has been the extent to which my female friends, as, I think, of all the ones Iāve talked to in the last year since all this stuff started happening ā I canāt think of any of them who donāt have a story at some point in their life. And most of them have more than one.
PT: I donāt know how old your daughters are, but how do you deal with them living in this world where even they, whatever ages they are, canāt escape this in the headlines?
MD: You just have to raise children with, like, self-esteem, because youāre not going to be there to make all of their decisions for them. And you have to just hope that they have enough self-respect to make the best decisions they can. I mean, the Harvey situation is particularly horrible, because, you know, those women ā when you say, āHey, letās take a meeting in a hotel room.ā I mean, we auditioned, you know, for āGood Will Huntingā in a hotel room. Like, itās common to take meetings in a hotel room.
And this is the most powerful man in the movie business at the time, like in the ā90s, like Harvey was. That was the place to be. And if you get a thing from your agent on the letterhead of your agency that says, āGo meet Harvey Weinstein, the rainmaker, the guy that makes these great movies, at the Peninsula Hotel,ā youāre going to that meeting ā¦ You donāt go into that meeting thinking something bad is going to happen to you ā¦ I donāt know whoās taking meetings in hotel rooms now. I mean, sometimes youāre in a different city and you just donāt have anywhere to meet. But, so no matter how smart my daughters are, no matter how prepared they are, thereās still those situations that thatās the nightmare kind of scenario.
PT: Do you worry about your daughters less because of the change in the industry?
MD: With social media, you know, and a Twitter account, you have the same platform as The New York Times now, so there arenāt secrets. Itās harder to do this type of thing. I would like to point out, though, that even though it feels like thereās this avalanche of men ā¦ Well hereās my optimistic spin, this is like 1 percent of the guys who are losing their careers. Itās not everybody. It just feels like it. Thereās so many great men and women in the movie business. So many great people. Itās such a wonderful collection of people overall. And these rotten horrible apples are getting weeded out right now.
And thatās fine. Thatās a good thing. Thatās progress. But again, when we go back to talking about our own growth and development as human beings. We have to get to a place where weāre looking at one end of the spectrum and saying, āWell, letās deal with this with some reflection and dialogue and some reconciliation, and letās all grow together and move on.ā And then Iāll think weāll be making progress.
Watch part of Matt Damonās interview in the video above, and tune in for the full ABC Newsā āPopcorn With Peter Traversā interview on Dec. 27, on ABCNews.com.
Download the "Popcorn With Peter Travers" podcast on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Tunein, Google Play Music and Stitcher.
Editorās note: This interview has been edited for length and clarity.