TRANSCRIPT: ABC News/Facebook/WMUR Democratic Debate

You know, this is a complicated enterprise, so it has to be done right. And last spring, I began demanding that the Bush administration tell us whether they were undertaking the kind of planning that is necessary for the withdrawal.

And, clearly, they're not. So as soon as I am elected, I will task the Joint Chiefs and the secretary of defense and the security advisers to provide such a plan and to begin to execute it within 60 days.

GIBSON: All right. Let me thank all of you. We're going to take a commercial break, three minutes. I'm going to bring Scott Spradling from WMUR up here, and we'll continue with some questions.

The Democratic debate from Manchester, New Hampshire, continues.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

GIBSON: I am joined, for the last half of this debate, as I was for the Republican debate, by the political director here in Manchester, New Hampshire, Scott Spradling.

And I appreciate all of you, again, being with us. It's good to have the four leading Democratic candidates with us. Just to reintroduce them, Senator John Edwards -- former Senator John Edwards, Senator Barack Obama, Governor Bill Richardson, Senator Hillary Clinton.

Scott?

SPRADLING: Senator, I'd like to start with you.

I was watching the exchange in the first half and saw what looked like a little bit of a double team that's probably going to have a lot of people talking tomorrow morning.

(LAUGHTER)

CLINTON: I'm glad you noticed.

SPRADLING: Yes, I did notice.

(LAUGHTER)

And I'd like to ask you this.

The University of New Hampshire Survey Center has been consistently trying to probe the minds of New Hampshire voters and get a sense of what they think about all of you. I'd be happy to report that the experience vs. change debate seems to be sinking it.

And what I'd like to get is to this: New Hampshire voters seem to believe that, of those of you on this stage, you are the most experienced and the most electable. In terms of change, they see Senators Obama and Edwards as the agents of change, in New Hampshire mindset.

My question to you is simply this: What can you say to the voters of New Hampshire on this stage tonight who see a resume and like it, but are hesitating on the likability issue, where they seem to like Barack Obama more?

CLINTON: Well, that hurts my feelings.

(LAUGHTER)

SPRADLING: I'm sorry, Senator. I'm sorry.

(APPLAUSE)

CLINTON: But I'll try to go on.

(LAUGHTER)

He's very likable. I agree with that. I don't think I'm that bad.

OBAMA: You're likable enough, Hillary.

CLINTON: Thank you...

(LAUGHTER)

You know, I think this is one of the most serious decisions that the voters of New Hampshire have ever had to make. And I really believe that the most important question is who is ready to be president on day one.

You know, the problems waiting, some of which we have talked about already, are huge and the stakes could not be higher.

And, you know, in 2000 we, unfortunately, ended up with a president who people said they wanted to have a beer with; who said he wanted to be a uniter, not a divider; who said that he had his intuition and he was going to, you know, really come into the White House and transform the country. And, you know, at least I think there are the majority of Americans who think that was not the right choice.

So I am offering 35 years of experience making change, and the results to show for it.

I, you know, respect and like both Senator Edwards and Senator Obama.

CLINTON: But I think if you want to know what change each of us will bring about, look at what we've done. And there are a lot of differences that I think need to be aired for the voters of New Hampshire.

Because I stand on my record of experience, and I appreciate Governor Richardson's long history of serving our country.

But I think I am an agent of change. I embody change. I think having the first woman president is a huge change...

(APPLAUSE)

... with consequences across our country and the world. And that on the specific issues that I have worked on for a lifetime and the plans I have put forth, I believe I am more prepared and ready to actually deliver change.

CLINTON: And I think that ultimately is what Americans want to know and believe.

SPRADLING: Senator, thank you.

Senator Obama, I don't know if your ears were ringing during the first debate. I asked a question about you earlier, and am interested to hear your response to what the Republican candidates for president laid out in arguments for you not being elected president.

I revved up the Republican attack machine. Please respond.

OBAMA: Well, you know, I have to admit that I was going back and forth between the Republicans and football.

(LAUGHTER)

GIBSON: How did the Redskins do?

OBAMA: The Redskins lost.

(LAUGHTER)

But, look, I think there's no doubt that any of the candidates on this stage would represent significant change from George Bush. And we've seen a disaster, in both foreign policy and domestic policy, over the last seven years.

But what the people in Iowa were responding to, what I think that we're seeing here in New Hampshire, is a hunger for a different kind of politics that is very specific about pushing aside special interests that have come to dominate the agenda and the debate, reducing the power of lobbyists; something that I have done.

OBAMA: I think people are very concerned about making sure that the American people are let back into their government.

So when I, for example, worked with a Republican to set up a searchable database, so that every dollar of federal spending -- we would know. If there was a bridge to nowhere, you'd know who was sponsoring it, and hopefully embarrassing them. If there was a no-bid contract to Halliburton, you'd know about that.

Those are the kinds of steps that will actually lead to real changes in people's lives.

And that's how I worked at the state level, bringing Republicans and Democrats together to provide health insurance to people who didn't have it.

OBAMA: That's how we were able to provide tax cuts to working families. And that is what I intend to do as president of the United States of America.

SPRADLING: Senator Thompson referred to your support as endorsements by some of the most liberal groups in the nation, trying to paint a picture that you would be way left of center.

OBAMA: Of course. But Scott, that's what they're going to do to any Democrat. I mean, we've seen this movie before. We know the Republican playbook.

Here's what I'm betting on, though, is that regardless of what the Republican candidates are talking about, I think that there are a whole host of Republicans, and certainly independents, who have lost trust in their government, who don't believe anybody is listening to them, who are staggering under rising costs of health care, college education, don't believe what politicians say.

And we can draw those independents and some Republicans into a working coalition, a working majority for change.

OBAMA: And the fact of the matter is I think that Senator Clinton has done some good work. I think Bill Richardson has done some good work, as has John Edwards.

But what we haven't seen over the last many years, even preceding George Bush, is tackling the big issues -- getting health care reform finally done, getting an energy policy that works.

And that's going to require a working majority for change. We're starting to build that. We saw it in Iowa. We're going to build it here in New Hampshire. And I think we can build it across the country.

SPRADLING: Governor Richardson, I'm curious: Do you think to be president of the United States that prior executive experience is necessary? And is relative youth a detriment?

RICHARDSON: Well, I think prior executive experience is very important. I'm the only governor here. I'm the only person here who has actually balanced budgets.

RICHARDSON: I've balanced five. I've created 80,000 new jobs. I've lowered taxes for everybody. I've insured kids under 12 in my state. I've improved education.

You know, you want somebody in this position that has had executive experience.

And I will also say, Charlie, since, you know, I noticed Scott mentioned everybody else in the poll, he didn't mention me...

(LAUGHTER)

But that's OK.

GIBSON: Did that hurt your feelings, too?

RICHARDSON: Well, a little bit.

(LAUGHTER)

SPRADLING: Would you like to know?

RICHARDSON: You know, let's face it -- the next president is going to have to have foreign policy experience. And of all the candidates here, I'm the only one that's negotiated with foreign governments, I'm the only one that has faced down the North Koreans and Saddam Hussein, I'm the only one that has had the highest national security clearance.

You know, so there's something about having experience and been tested and represented...

(CROSSTALK)

SPRADLING: Can I follow up on that, then...

RICHARDSON: Sure.

SPRADLING: ... with your resume.

I don't mean to interrupt, but I remember you as energy secretary coming to Boston for an energy summit way back in February of 2000, when the dialogue then was very similar to the dialogue that it is now: rising fuel prices, a struggling supply, frustration in the homes across New England and a call for some help.

SPRADLING: Here we are this past Thursday -- we've established it -- that it's $100 a barrel. Is it fair to say to you, in this experience argument, that you, as energy secretary, you didn't get it done then, so why believe you'd get it done now because we're having the same debate?

RICHARDSON: Look, both parties have been failures in dealing with energy policy, but you know -- and I remember meeting you there. Remember what I did, Scott. I went to OPEC countries and tried to get them to increase production so prices would go down.

At the time, there was a home heating oil crisis here in New England. I created reserves of home heating oil. Look at the price now in New Hampshire, $3.20, something like that. It's the highest ever.

You know, what we need is an energy revolution in this country, not some of the bills that the Congress has passed.

RICHARDSON: We need to go to 50 miles per gallon fuel efficiency. We need to have 30 percent of all our electricity renewable. We need to reduce greenhouse gas emissions by 80 percent by the year 2040.

And we need the American people to sacrifice a little bit. I would ask the American people, when it comes to being more energy- conscious, to be cognizant of appliances, of fuel efficiency, the vehicles we drive, mass transit.

You know, I -- and I did when I was energy secretary, air conditioners 30 percent more efficient. I started the renewable portfolio. So, I did some things, Scott.

The problem -- you're right. We need a bipartisan approach. But we need to reduce fossil fuels by 50 percent by the year 2020, because our planet is getting damaged. And Al Gore has been right.

RICHARDSON: He deserves the Nobel Prize. I'm glad he stayed out of the race.

(LAUGHTER)

GIBSON: I'm going to go to Senator Edwards for just a moment.

You answered the first part of my question about executive training. You didn't talk about whether relative youth is a detriment.

RICHARDSON: I didn't hear that.

GIBSON: When I asked you the question, I said, is prior executive experience a key requirement for being president and is relative youth a detriment?

RICHARDSON: Relative youth? No. You know, John F. Kennedy was 42 years old when he was elected president. He's my hero, and I think he was one of our greatest presidents because -- because he inspired, because he said he'd go to the moon in 10 years, because he said that we all collectively have to do something for the common good.

GIBSON: Senator Edwards?

EDWARDS: What's my question?

(LAUGHTER)

No, I'm glad that people like me, Hillary. I'm glad they like...

(CROSSTALK)

GIBSON: The prior executive experience. And is relative youth a detriment?

EDWARDS: No, I think what matters -- we've had a lot of conversation about the first day in the White House. I think we ought to picture what that first day in the White House would be for each of us.

EDWARDS: I'll just speak for myself. You know, I'm the candidate up here who's never taken a dime from a Washington lobbyist in my entire time in public life or a dime from a special interest PAC.

The first day that I'm president of the United States, there will be no corporate lobbyists working in my White House. There will be no lobbyist who's lobbied for foreign governments.

And this is a very personal cause for me, because I come from a family -- my father is in the audience tonight -- where my father worked for 37 years in the mills. He didn't get a chance, like I did, to have a college education.

And this is a fight for the middle class and families just like the one I grew up with. My grandmother, who helped raise me, had a fifth or sixth grade education, came from a family of share-croppers, she worked in the mill every day so that I could have the chances that I've had.

And this -- I spent 20 years fighting irresponsible corporations in courtrooms.

EDWARDS: I know what it takes to fight these people and win.

But here's what I would want people to know. What I want people to know is, this battle is deep inside me and it is personal.

And it matters whether it's personal or not, because is if it's either academic or political, when the tough fight comes, you'll walk away from it. You'll do what's political.

This fight is deeply personal to me. I've been engaged in it my whole life, to fight for the middle class, to fight against powerful special interests. And it is a fight I will wage on behalf of the American people as president of the United States and win, as I have for 54 years.

SPRADLING: Senator, I'd like to follow that up then.

EDWARDS: Sure.

SPRADLING: You served six years in the U.S. Senate.

EDWARDS: Yes.

SPRADLING: And on the campaign trail, it seems like you don't talk a lot about the six years. The people of New Hampshire probably remember you talking about your war vote and explaining later on why you weren't happy about that.

EDWARDS: Yes.

SPRADLING: Can you give New Hampshire voters a guide of something significant that you accomplished in your six years as a U.S. senator...

EDWARDS: Absolutely.

SPRADLING: ... that would give us some guide as to what kind of president you're going to be?

EDWARDS: Absolutely. I could tell you exactly one -- I'll give you one very specific example, a big example.

When the Democrats finally took over the United States Senate, the first issue that was brought to the table was the so-called patient's bill of rights, so that patients and families could make their own health care decisions.

EDWARDS: What's happening now is insurance companies are running all over people. I mean, the case of Nataline Sarkisyan, which a lot of the audience will be familiar with -- 17-year-old girl who lost her life a couple of weeks ago because her insurance company would not pay for a liver transplant operation.

She had health insurance, but the insurance company wouldn't pay for it. They finally caved in a few hours before she died.

We need a president who will take these people on. What we did -- and I didn't do it alone, don't claim to have done it alone -- but I, Senator McCain, who was here earlier, Senator Kennedy, the three of us wrote the Patient's Bill of Rights. The three of us took on the powerful insurance industry and their lobby, every single day of the fight for the Patient's Bill of Rights. And we got that bill through the United States Senate and got it passed.

EDWARDS: And I'm proud of having done that.

But that's just an example of why this battle is personal for me. You know, we need a president who believes deeply -- in here -- believes deeply in this battle.

And it is personal for me. When I see these lobbyists roaming around Washington, D.C., taking all the politicians to cocktail parties, I mean, the picture I get in my head is my father and my grandmother going in that mill every day so that I could have the chances I've had.

Where is their voice in this democracy? When are they going to get heard? They need a president who will stand up for them, and so does every American who's listening to this debate.

OBAMA: I just want to add, I agree with John, which is why I prohibited lobbyists from buying meals for members of Congress...

EDWARDS: Good idea.

OBAMA: ... because -- and some of them complained. They said...

(CROSSTALK)

OBAMA: They said, "Where am I going to eat?"

GIBSON: They can now buy food for members of Congress if the members of Congress are standing up. That's my understanding of what the rules have changed. You can't sit down and eat, but you can stand up and eat. Tell me why that's change.

OBAMA: Here's what we did. They can't buy meals. They can't provide gifts. They can no longer lend corporate...

GIBSON: They can have huge parties for you as long as you're standing up.

EDWARDS: They can't eat as much if they're standing up, Charlie.

OBAMA: That's true.

Look, we are now disclosing if they're bundling money for members of Congress. They've got to disclose who they're bundling money from and who they're giving it to.

But here's the critical point that I want to make. Not only does this have to be personal, John -- and I completely agree. When I think about health care, I think about my mother, who when she was dying of cancer had to read an insurance form because she had just gotten a new job and they were trying to figure out whether or not this was going to be treated as a preexisting condition, and whether or not they would pay her medical bills.

So I've seen the costs of a health care system that is broken in very personal terms.

But what I also believe, if we're going to bring about real change, then we have to bring in the American people. We have to bet on them.

OBAMA: And that's what's been lost. People, I think, feel that they are not heard at all, they are not involved. And the only way we're going to muster enough power over the long term to actually get something done is if we've got a working majority, which is why it's so important...

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Can we just have a sort of a reality break for a minute? Because I think that it is important to make some kind of an assessment of these statements.

You know, Senator Edwards did work and get the patient bill of rights through the Senate -- it never got through the House. One of the reasons that Natalie may well have died is because there isn't a patient's bill of rights. We don't have a patient's bill of rights.

EDWARDS: Because George Bush killed it.

CLINTON: Well, that's right. He killed it.

So, we've got to have a plan and a real push to get it through.

You know, when it comes to lobbyists, you know, Senator Obama's chair in New Hampshire is a lobbyist. He lobbies for the drug companies.

So, I think it's important that all of us be held to the same standard -- that we're all held accountable.

CLINTON: You know, the energy bill that passed in 2005 was larded with all kinds of special interest breaks, giveaways to the oil companies. Senator Obama voted for it. I did not because I knew that it was going to be an absolute nightmare.

Now we're all out on the campaign trail talking about taking the tax subsidies away from the oil companies, some of which were in that 2005 energy bill.

So, you know, words are not actions. And as beautifully presented and passionately felt as they are, they are not action.

You know, what we've got to do is translate talk into action and feeling into reality. I have a long record of doing that, of taking on the very interests that you have just rightly excoriated because of the over-due influence that they have in our government.

And, you know, probably nobody up here has been the subject of more incoming fire from the Republicans and the special interests. So I think I know exactly what I'm walking into. And I am prepared to take them on.

(CROSSTALK)

SPRADLING: Senator, does that mean that you're further down the road than your opponents in this? Or are you saying that you can do things that these folks can't do, when it comes to being an agent of change?

CLINTON: Absolutely. Because I've been an agent of change. You know, you go back 35 years, you know, I worked to help make the case for the law that, thankfully, required that public schools give an education to children with special needs. I worked to reform education and health care in Arkansas against, you know, some pretty tough odds.

In the White House, I helped to create, you know, health care for kids and, you know, reform a lot of the other programs -- like taking on the drug companies.

SPRADLING (?): And to be clear, they can't. You're saying they can't.

CLINTON: Well, I'm not saying that -- I'm only making my case, that this is what I have done.

(CROSSTALK)

GIBSON: I'll come to all of you.

I didn't want to get into this, but I've covered Washington for a long time. And I know President Clinton came to Washington talking about change. President Bush came to Washington talking about change.

So many people in the administrations and in Congress say Washington is set up to resist change...

EDWARDS: Absolutely.

GIBSON: And God love all of you for making this argument.

(CROSSTALK)

(LAUGHTER)

(CROSSTALK)

CLINTON: Can I just say, if you're going to mention President Clinton, I'm going to respond?

EDWARDS: Let Hillary talk. Let her talk.

CLINTON: President Clinton -- wait, President Clinton inherited a deficit, a debt that had been quadrupled in the previous 12 years.

Now, anybody who doesn't think taking on the special interests to raise taxes on corporations, raise taxes on the wealthy, begin to whittle away at the deficit, to be able to leave with a balanced budget and a surplus -- if that didn't take a lot of change that actually produced results, then I think we've got amnesia.

CLINTON: You know, change is hard, but change is possible...

(APPLAUSE)

EDWARDS: OK, can we speak to this? Can we speak to this?

CLINTON: ... if you're prepared to work hard and follow through.

EDWARDS: I want to say -- I just want to say a quick word about this.

You know, it is true that these entrenched interests -- whether you're talking about oil companies, drug companies, gas companies, whoever, these entrenched interests are literally stealing our children's future.

They have a stranglehold on this democracy. And they are having an incredibly destructive force on the middle class, on families being able to do what my family has done, and so many who are sitting here have been able to do.

And the problem is you can't be with those people, take their money and then challenge them. It doesn't work.

You have to be willing to actually stand up and say no, no to lobbyists' money, no to PAC money, no corporate lobbyists working for me in the White House.

EDWARDS: If you intend to take them on, and if it is personal for you -- and this is extraordinarily personal for me -- if it's personal for you, then you can be successful bringing about the change.

Teddy Roosevelt -- just one quick example -- Teddy Roosevelt -- Teddy Roosevelt, a great American president: He didn't make deals with the monopolies and the trusts. Teddy Roosevelt took them on, busted the monopolies, busted the trusts. That's what it's going to take.

We have a battle in front of us. We do.

I don't think we have a problem with politicians in Washington spending enough time with lobbyists and going to cocktail parties. They do it all the time. They do it every single day.

And I'll tell you who's paying the price for those cocktail parties: Ed and Nataline Sarkisyan, every single American who doesn't have health care coverage, everybody who's going to the gas pump and paying so much for their gas.

When are we going to have a president who actually takes these people on? That's what I'm going to do.

(CROSSTALK)

GIBSON: I'm going to go Senator Obama, and I'll come to you.

OBAMA: Look, I think it's easy to be cynical and just say, "You know what? It can't be done, because Washington is designed to resist change."

But in fact, there have been periods of time in our history where a president inspired the American people to do better.

OBAMA: And I think we're in one of those moments right now. I think the American people are hungry for something different and can be mobilized around big changes; not incremental changes, not small changes.

I actually give Bill Clinton enormous credit for having balanced those budgets during those years. It did take political courage for him to do that.

But we never built the majority and coalesced the American people around being able to get the other stuff done.

And, you know, so, the truth is, actually, words do inspire, words do help people get involved, words do help members of Congress get into power so that they can be part of a coalition to deliver health-care reform, to deliver a bold energy policy.

Don't discount that power.

OBAMA: Because when the American people are determined that something is going to happen, then it happens. And if they are disaffected and cynical and fearful and told that it can't be done, then it doesn't.

I'm running for president because I want to tell them, "Yes, we can," and that's why I think they're responding in such large numbers.

RICHARDSON: You know, this is the kind of Washington bickering that the public turns off to. And, you know, with all due respect, as a governor, I'm frustrated every time you guys and the president get nothing done because then the burden is on us.

And, you know, John, I understand your frustration. I understand, you know, that it's personal. But, you know, to resolve problems, you got to bring people together. You got to heal this country.

You can't -- you know, it's great to say, "We're going to take everybody on." But, you know, it's going to take coalitions of people backing us. It's going to take public financing to get the special interests out of politics. It's going to take bipartisanship.

You know, what I've said is that if I'm elected president, I'm going to have a Cabinet of Republicans, Democrats and independents.

Now, I won't overdo the Republicans.

(LAUGHTER)

RICHARDSON: But my point is, it's how you govern. It's coalition-building. It's bringing the public -- a citizens corps of activists. It's asking the public to sacrifice, to do something for the country like being more energy efficient, like national service.

You know, I've got a program, two years the government pays for your college loans, your tuition, you give one year of national service to the country.

It's emboldering (ph) the electorate. You can't do it by just fighting and taking everybody on. You got to bring people together. And that's a frustration.

EDWARDS: Give me 30 seconds on this, because you just said something...

GIBSON: I'll hold you to it.

(CROSSTALK)

EDWARDS: I actually completely agree that it's the responsibility of the president to unite and galvanize the American people. It is also the responsibility of the president, and I will do it, to work with members of Congress to get things done.

EDWARDS: But these entrenched monied interests that have a stranglehold on the middle class, that are doing incredibly destructive to American jobs and the health care system, energy, all taxes, trade, they're in everything -- absolutely everything, you cannot nice these people to death. It doesn't work.

I have been in the trenches fighting them for my whole adult life. And it takes strength, backbone, fight and you have to take them on.