Transcript: Sebelius, Pawlenty

ROBERTS: They're seeing that in polling in various congressional districts. They're looking at -- they are looking at a 2010 map that's not looking great for them right now. STEPHANOPOULOS: And the argument that is probably going to work best for the White House is remember what happened in 1994. ROBERTS: Right.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Democrats failed, and they lost the House the next year. It's all going to be against the backdrop of an economy still in a lot of trouble on the anniversary of a financial collapse -- I remember that weekend a year ago -- Lehman Brothers on the verge of collapsing. We had Secretary Greenspan on the show that Sunday saying this was the worst crisis he had seen since the Great Depression.

Let's look at some of the numbers a year out. The Dow in September 2008, 11,421, down about 2,000 points. Interestingly, the Dow is now at exactly the same point it was on September 10th, 2001, right before 9/11. A year ago, unemployment was at 6.2 percent. Today, at 9.7 percent and probably climbing. Larry Summers saying on Friday that we're going to have unacceptable unemployment for a long time to come.

And then two other numbers. Gross domestic product, down about 3.9 percent over the last year. Existing home values down 15.1 percent. George, those are some of the big changes we have seen over this last year. What else have we seen? WILL: A year ago today, New York City, as it had been for all of the 20th century, was the financial capital of the world. Today, it's not the financial capital of the United States. This town is, because we increasingly treat capital as a public utility. The allocation of it and the cost of it is being determined by the government. The two largest decisions the average family makes is the mortgage you get for your house and the loan you get to send a child to college. That's now government business. DONALDSON: The great trigger seemed to be letting Lehman fail. And now I noticed there was some revisionist history going on about that...

STEPHANOPOULOS: That it was OK to let them fail.

DONALDSON: I'm not sure -- it was OK because if a bigger company had failed before Lehman, then we really would have gone over the cliff. It's better to have that medicine right then. I don't know if that's correct or not, but I do know what it cost the country, because of the excesses from Wall Street. I see now Wall Street beginning to think they could do it again. Have they not learned a lesson? We need regulation and we need to do it big time. STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, it is true, it is true, David Brooks, that pay is going to be back -- it seems like pay at the biggest banks, especially at Goldman Sachs, is going to be back to the pre-crisis levels. But the big banks are holding a lot more capital in reserve and using a lot less leverage than they used to. BROOKS: There's been a psychological shift. First, let's give credit to Geithner, Bernanke and Paulson. They didn't know what they were doing, but they kept talking and they kept working at it, and they did stabilize the system. ROBERTS: And internationally. (CROSSTALK)

BROOKS: And internationally, at the European banks...

ROBERTS: All the smart boys and girls came together and kept us from having a depression. (CROSSTALK)

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