So my question to you, David, isn't that in some sense an indictment of President Obama since he got elected promising to change this system?
PLOUFFE: Well, he's trying to. First of all, in almost every poll out there, well over 60 percent of the American people believe that President Obama is trying to work with the Republicans. The Congress -- it's true. Well over (ph) 60 percent of the people believe the Republicans aren't reciprocating. And worse than that, it's not because of principle. They believe it's because of raw, naked politics.
So he's trying. He's making his executive branch more transparent, lessening the influence of lobbyists, so he's going to continue -- by the way, on immigration, on education, on some of the energy ideas, I think we have an opportunity to work in a bipartisan fashion, and he's going to look for that opportunity each and every day.
KARL: Karl, we're almost out of time...
ROVE: This is an indictment of the president. He held a bicameral, bipartisan meeting on March 5th of 2009 to talk with people about health care reform. The next time he had a substantive meeting with Republicans to talk about health care reform was the Blair House kabuki drama on February 25th of 2010.
You cannot go for 51 weeks shutting the Republicans out of the debate and claim that you provided leadership. He has been aloof, distant, detached. This bill is based on Bernie Madoff economics and includes things that he campaigned against Hillary Clinton and Bill and -- and John McCain on during the campaign. And it is a bad bill for America.
KARL: All right.
ROVE: And we will fight the election on this, and the Democrats will have significant losses in the House and Senate as a result of this bill.
KARL: You have 10 seconds.
PLOUFFE: Well, listen, Karl and a lot of Republicans want to call the election all over. They ought to break out that "Mission Accomplished" banner they put on the USS Abraham Lincoln, OK?
ROVE: ... that is cheesy, David...
ROVE: ... honoring the USS Abraham Lincoln for the -- for the longest mission...
KARL: Karl Rove...
ROVE: ... aircraft carrier in American history. And you should not denigrate the mission of the...
ROVE: ... like you've just did.
KARL: Karl Rove, joining us from Indianapolis, Karl, thanks for joining us on "This Week." David Plouffe...
PLOUFFE: Thank you.
ROVE: ... thank you very much. I think we'll be debating this some more.
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DASCHLE: As we profess the desire and the need for bipartisanship, we have a process that is this inexcusable on an issue this important. I think it is fair to say -- and I don't know that any Republicans would ever dispute it -- the Democrats were virtually locked out from the beginning on this issue.
LOTT: I've tried every way in the world to try to get us to have a bipartisan bill out of the Finance Committee. That was denied. Tried to get something done before it got to the floor, working with the centrist groups, that was denied.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
KARL: Those are two former Senate leaders nearly a decade ago sounding an awful lot like the current Senate leaders, and they are both here with us on the roundtable.