'This Week' Transcript: Rand Paul, Rep. Mike Pence and David Stockman

STOCKMAN: Exactly. This is not 1981. This is not morning again in America. We've drifted now for 30 years. Both parties, unfortunately, became free lunch parties, the Republicans cutting taxes every time they had a chance, never doing anything about spending, and the Democrats digging in to defend everything that was there. As a result, we now have this massive deficit. Today, the gross public debt is $14 trillion. The first thing we did when we walked into the White House in 1981 was struggle with raising the public debt to $1 trillion. So in that 30 years, the public debt has gone up 14 times. Our economy is only four times larger. We're losing the race. And we're now becoming the banana republic finance, printing -- the Fed, these mad men who are out of control at the Fed, are printing new money, equal to 100 percent of the debt that we're issuing each month. This will not end well. It's -- it's going to end in a disaster.

AMANPOUR: Right. And you're saying a tax increase and entitlement cuts are the only possible policy tools right now?

STOCKMAN: It's built into the math. I think, you know...

AMANPOUR: But this gentleman here is saying, no, correct? I mean, you don't want to cut any -- raise any taxes. You want to extend the tax cuts.

PENCE: Look, I don't think higher taxes are going to get anybody hired. I don't -- I think raising taxes in the worst economy in 25 years is a profoundly bad idea. But can I say what I agree with David on?

AMANPOUR: Go ahead.

PENCE: You know, I opposed the Medicare prescription drug entitlement. I opposed the Wall Street bailout. I opposed the stimulus bill. I -- I think this week's election was a historic rejection of American liberalism and the Obama and Pelosi agenda. The American people are tired of the borrowing, the spending, the bailouts, the takeovers. So to that point -- I disagree with David strongly on any tax increase. But to his point...

AMANPOUR: But the math isn't there.

PENCE: ... both parties have failed the American people and have allowed this city to -- to -- to be -- to expand spending beyond any reasonable expectation...

AMANPOUR: But, sir, with all due respect...

PENCE: It's true.

AMANPOUR: ... what you just said was the campaign -- campaign slogan. Now it's time to legislate. You have a new Congress. You have a new reality. You have a huge budget deficit, a massive national debt. And what I'm trying to figure out is, where, beyond what you've been saying in the campaign about, you know, less government, less spending, where you're going to make big cuts? And do you agree that there will, after a period of time, perhaps, need to be tax increases?

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