'This Week' Transcript 1-26-25: 'Border Czar’ Tom Homan, Sen. Elissa Slotkin and Walter Isaacson

This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, January 26.

ByABC News
January 26, 2025, 9:25 AM

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, January 26, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: A head-spinning kickoff.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: America's decline is over.

RADDATZ: From terminating federal diversity programs, to deporting immigrants on military aircraft, President Trump aggressively begins his first week back in office with a blitz of executive actions.

TRUMP: All illegal entry will immediately be halted.

RADDATZ: This morning, our Sunday exclusive with new border czar Tom Homan.

If they have been here 30 years, if they have a job, if they're working on a farm, they should be scared?

TOM HOMAN, BORDER CZAR: If you’re in the country illegally, you’ve got a problem and we're looking for you.

RADDATZ: ABC's Matt Rivers on the border with American troops, and Michigan's new Democratic senator, Elissa Slotkin, responds.

Presidential power. Trump pushes the limits of his authority, pardoning more than 1,500 January 6th rioters.

TRUMP: These were people that actually love our country.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): What happened to backing the blue?

RADDATZ: So, what's legal and what's on shaky ground in these executive orders? Former U.S. attorneys Chris Christie and Preet Bharara on what's next.

PETE HEGSETH, DEFENSE SECRETARY: So help me God.

J.D. VANCE, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Congratulations, Mr. Secretary.

RADDATZ: Plus, after the narrow confirmation of new Defense Secretary Pete Hegseth, will Trump's remaining nominees make it through? Our powerhouse roundtable tackles it all.

And, Elon's influence.

WALTER ISAACSON, AUTHOR, "ELON MUSK" & TULANE UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR: He takes risks. He sometimes blows things up. And that's what he's going to do in government.

RADDATZ: With the world's richest man now joining President Trump at the White House, Elon Musk's biographer explains what drives the tech titan.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s THIS WEEK. Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning, and welcome to THIS WEEK.

The first week of Donald Trump's return to the Oval Office, and he wasted no time. The president ordering an end to federal diversity, equity, and inclusion programs, freezing federal hiring, and firing at least 17 inspectors general who serve as independent watchdogs of federal agencies.

Trump also made good on his commitment to free those convicted for their actions during the January 6, 2021, attack on the U.S. Capitol, commuting or pardoning some 1,500 rioters, including those who violently assaulted police officers.

And on the world stage, taking aim at Russia, warning President Vladimir Putin of possible economic sanctions if he doesn't engage in negotiations with Ukraine, declaring, it's time to make a deal.

The president also pledging to take back the Panama Canal, threatening tariffs against China, Mexico, Canada, and all of Europe.

It is a rapid rollout of Trump's agenda with no issue more central to his presidency than immigration. President Trump declaring a national emergency at the border, shutting down refugee arrivals, ordering 1,500 armed, active-duty military to the border.

And all of this will now be overseen by his new defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, sworn in after Vice President J.D. Vance had to cast the tiebreaking vote for his Senate confirmation late Friday.

He takes over a department already deeply involved in delivering on Trump's America first agenda. For the first time in history, military aircraft transporting undocumented immigrants back to their home countries. A practice Trump's border czar tells me will continue every day.

We'll bring you that conversation in a moment, but we begin with ABC's Matt Rivers, who embedded with U.S. Marines headed for the border.

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MATT RIVERS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT (voice over): This week, the beginning of President Trump's military buildup at the southern border.

RIVERS: So, right there, part of the very first steps of the U.S. military being deployed down here. Those taking off from Camp Pendleton, making their way down here to the U.S./Mexico border.

RIVERS (voice over): Fifteen hundred active-duty U.S. Marine and Army personnel deploying to the Mexican border to aid detection efforts and enhance physical barriers.

RIVERS: Right now those Marines are offloading concertina wire they’re going to bring right down to the border to reinforce it. It's clearly meant to be a deterrence against future migration.

And flights like these might be happening a lot more over the coming months.

RIVERS (voice over): The Pentagon releasing these images Saturday of additional troops now deployed in Texas and California to assist with Trump’s latest border security mission.

According to a U.S. official, the newly deployed troops will not be engaging in law enforcement duty, and are being sent in support of the Department of Homeland Security, as President Trump's deportation efforts get under way.

U.S. military aircraft carrying undocumented migrants out of the country for the first time. The White House releasing these pictures of migrants in chains, boarding two C-17 jets. Approximately 160 people in total taken to Guatemala Friday.

President Trump touting these moves during remarks in Las Vegas this weekend.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're getting them out. You see it. You see it yesterday. First day. Our message could not be more clear.

RIVERS (voice over): Meanwhile, thousands of migrants are now stuck in Mexico with no idea what comes next, as the administration halts all applications for asylum through the CBP One app. One asylum seeker telling us, I lost my hope. I feel depressed, really. I don't know what I should do.

But the Trump administration warns this is only the beginning of their border crackdown, and thousands more troops could be flooding in soon.

For THIS WEEK, Matt Rivers, along the U.S./Mexico border.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Matt Rivers.

One of the very first appointments Donald Trump made after winning the election in November was tapping one man to be what he calls his border czar. Tom Homan is a former Border Patrol agent and acting director of ICE, with decades of experience in Republican and Democratic administrations.

I sat down with him this week and began our conversation by asking him about the role of the U.S. military.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

TOM HOMAN, TRUMP ADMINISTRATION BORDER CZAR: We got military on the border, not only helping us with the departure flights on military planes, or they're helping to build infrastructure, they’re putting up the concertina wire, they're down there to create a secure border and knock that border down. And DOD has helped administrations before, but not at this level, so it's a force multiplier, and it's sending a strong signal to the world, our border’s closed.

RADDATZ: So, is this what we will see every single day, ending in what the President has promised is millions and millions being deported?

HOMAN: Yes. But you're going to see the numbers steadily increase, the number of arrests nationwide as we open up the aperture. Right now, it's concentrating on public safety threats, national security threats. That's a smaller population.

So, we're going to do this on priority base, that’s President Trump's promise. But as that aperture opens, there'll be more arrests nationwide

RADDATZ: When you – when you talk about the aperture opening, the estimates of perhaps those who have been convicted or arrested in the past, 700,000 to over a million. So, after you do that, then you go after everybody who is there illegally?

HOMAN: If you’re in the country illegally, you're on the table, because it's not OK to, you know, violate the laws of this country. You got to remember, every time you enter this country illegally, you violated a crime under Title Eight, the United States Code 1325, it's a crime. So, if you're in a country illegally, you got a problem. And that's why I'm hoping those who are in the country illegally, who have not been ordered removed by the federal judge, should leave.

RADDATZ: While you are emphasizing that you go after national security threats, you have said, “no one's off the table.” “If you're in the country illegally, you better be looking over your shoulder.” “You should be afraid and start packing now.”

Is that what you're doing to get hotel workers out, or people in – working on farms, that they'll be so scared they just leave?

HOMAN: Look, I think if you're in the country illegally, it's not OK. It's not OK to violate the laws of this country. We have millions of people standing in line, taking the test, doing their background investigation, paying their fees that want to come in the right way.

RADDATZ: Let's talk about the arrests so far. Numbers released the first day were over 500 and there were reports that one was a suspected terrorist, others were gang members. Were all of the people who were arrested on day one, as far as you know, convicted criminals or those who had been arrested before?

HOMAN: No. And let me explain that. There are collateral arrests. Where do the collateral arrests happen? Sanctuary cities. And this is important we understand it. Sanctuary cities lock us out of the jails. So, instead of ICE being able to arrest the bad guy that – the criminal alien in the safety and security of a jail where the officer is safe, the alien is safe and the public is safe, sanctuary cities release them back in the community, which endangers the community, putting – you’re putting the alien criminal back in the community. But when we find him, he's going to be with others, most likely. Many times you're with others. If they're in the country illegally, they're coming too.

RADDATZ: But were these arrests all in sanctuary cities? It doesn't appear so, on the first day.

HOMAN: The collaterals? Many of them are. I don't have the exact breakdown, but, again, sanctuary – sanctuary cities –

RADDATZ: So, the arrests in Massachusetts, in Chelsea, Massachusetts, which – which the governor said it's great to arrest the criminals who have been – who are convicted, but were there people taken there as well who were not convicted?

HOMAN: I’m sure there were.

RADDATZ: Were they, as you say, collaterals?

HOMAN: I'm sure they are.

RADDATZ: You talk about these numbers expanding, 500 the first day. What do you think you can get up to?

HOMAN: As many as we can get, as many --

RADDATZ: What can -- what can happen at this point, given your manpower?

HOMAN: Look, I think we– we’re in the beginning stages. We're bringing more resources into this operation. As a whole government we’re going to have DOJ assisting us and look -- the DOD piece, helping them build infrastructure, helping the transportation, that takes ICE, badges and guns out of those duties and puts them on the street.

RADDATZ: I want to go back to who you're deporting. Aside from the long list of executive actions, the administration said it will no longer tell ICE agents they have to avoid sensitive locations, including schools, hospitals, churches.

Benjamine Huffman, the acting Homeland Security Secretary, said in a statement, criminals will no longer be able to hide in America's schools and churches to avoid arrest.

What criminals are hiding in schools? Middle schools, elementary schools, you're going to go into those?

HOMAN: How many MS-13 members are the age 14-17? Many of them.

So look, if it's a national security threat, public safety threat. And what -- what you need to understand is that it’s case by case, name another agency, another law enforcement agency, that has those type of requirements, that they can't walk into a school or doctor's office or a medical campus. No other agency is held to those standards.

These are well-trained officers with a lot of discretion, and when it comes to a sensitive location, there’s still going to be supervisory view.

So it's not like it's an open, open issue, but ICE officers should have discretion to decide if a national security threat or a public safety threats that’s in one of these facilities, then it should be an option of them to make the arrest.

RADDATZ: But someday you could go into those schools and grab people who are just in the country illegally?

HOMAN: On a case by case basis, depending who they are, what the circumstances are. It's never -- it's never a zero game.

RADDATZ: You know that this creates fear in the immigration -- in the immigrant community. The chair of the U.S. Conference of Bishops committee said: Turning places of care, healing and solace into places of fear and uncertainty for those in need, while endangering the trust between pastors, providers, educators and the people they serve will not make our community safer.

HOMAN: Well, look, here's the thing if Congress has a job to do, we're enforcing laws Congress enacted and the president signed, if they don't like it, change the law. I find it hard to believe any member of Congress is telling us not to enforce the law that they enacted and they fund us to do.

RADDATZ: But opening up to anyone who's in the country illegally and going into schools and grabbing them, does that, kids, adults?

HOMAN: The message needs to be clear. There's consequences of entering the country illegally. If we don't show these consequences, you’re never going to fix the border problem

RADDATZ: Estimates are that there are 11 million undocumented immigrants in this country right now. How can you possibly afford to deport all of those people?

HOMAN: Well, I’ll leave it up to Congress. You know, I think Congress -- the president has a mandate. You know, this is the number one issue that people voted on. And I think Congress has a mandate to give us money we need.

How much? How much, how much -- what price you put on national security?

RADDATZ: More detention centers?

HOMAN: What price you put on -- what price you put on all these young ladies that have been raped and murdered and burned alive. What price do you put on that? What price you put on Laken Riley’s life, what price you put on national security?

Like I just explained, when you have a surge like this because we don't secure that border, that's when national security threats enter the country. That's when sex trafficking goes up.

That's when, you know, that's when the fentanyl comes in that kills a quarter million Americans. I don't put a price on that.

RADDATZ: And on those detention centers. Do you need more beds?

HOMAN: Absolutely.

RADDATZ: I think there's 41,000 now, 100,000. So where do you get those beds? Do you build more camps? Do you do this -- military installations in Texas and elsewhere?

HOMAN: A little bit of everything. We can build soft-sided facilities. We expand our contracts to outside contractors.

So yeah, we're going to need more ICE beds, at minimum of 100,000. Congress needs to come to the table quick and give us the money we need to secure that border.

RADDATZ: Let's talk about those flights again, with the host countries. You flew all of those people back. Were all of the people arrested on the first day, for instance, repatriated? And what about those countries that won't take them back?

HOMAN: Oh, they'll take them back.

RADDATZ: What do you mean by that?

HOMAN: We got President Trump coming to power. President Trump puts America first. Mexico didn't want the “Remain in the Mexico” program under the first administration, they did it. They didn't want to put military on the southern border. They did it.

El Salvador --

RADDATZ: How do you convince them?

HOMAN: El Salvador didn't want to take MS-13 members back. Took President Trump 48 hours to make that happen.

President Trump's going to put America first, and if it doesn't, then we'll place ‘em in a third safe country.

RADDATZ: All appointments to the CBP app have been canceled. That is a legal way to claim asylum and get in the country. So what should people do who are seeking asylum?

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: How do you do it?

HOMAN: Go to the embassy. Go to the point of entry. Do it the legal way.

You shouldn't come to this country and ask to get asylum, and the first thing you do is break our laws by entering illegally.

RADDATZ: So, tell me what the definition of success is over the next six months, over the next year, by the end of the administration, what is mission accomplished here?

HOMAN: Taking as many public safety threats off the street as possible, watching illegal alien crime in the United States decrease, ending it. Deporting every illegal alien gang member in this country, including Tren de Aragua and MS-13. Making our country safe. When we see the crime rate from illegal aliens go down, that's a success. Every public safety threat removed from this country is success. Every – every – every national security that we find and remove from the country is a success. There's no number on it.

So, my success is going to be based on what Congress gives us. The more money, the better I’m going to do.

RADDATZ: I noticed you didn't put in that list of things that will be mission accomplished and success getting every immigrant who is in the country illegally out. Why not?

HOMAN: Because I'm – I'm being realistic. We can do what we can with the money we have. We're going to try to be efficient, but with the more money we have, the more we can accomplish that. If I don't have the money to remove that many people, and I’m not going to sit here and -- one thing I'm – no one can say I haven’t been frank in everything I've said. Our success every day is taking a public safety threat off the streets or getting a national security threat out of here.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: And our thanks to Tom Homan.

I'm now joined by Michigan’s new Democratic senator, Elissa Slotkin, a former Pentagon official and CIA analyst, who now sits on the Armed Services and Homeland Security Committees.

Welcome, Senator. It’s good to see you this morning.

So, let’s get right to it.

You heard Tom Homan there saying that while criminals are the priority, national security threats, public safety threats, that he is warning everyone in this country illegally, and the estimates are 11 million, to leave. What effect do those warnings have?

SEN. ELISSA SLOTKIN, (D) MICHIGAN & (D) ARMED SERVICES COMMITTEE & (D) HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE: Well, look, I mean clearly they’re trying to – to deter people from coming, and they’re trying to send notice to people here, you know, to – to – that this could be happening to them.

I think, you know, they campaigned on this. And one of the things that, to me, has been a real hallmark when I listen to some of these immigration announcements lately is that it – it’s like they’re still in the campaign, right? Now you have to govern. Now you’re in the seat. You have to actually make this work with the money you have available.

So, I think that’s more of a signal to try and keep people from coming to the border, trying to get in. And – and it’s part of this transition that they’re not quite into yet between campaigning and governing.

RADDATZ: What about the schools and churches? You – you heard him there say, you can go into a middle school, you can go into an elementary school. I mean he said that’s, you know, a case-by-case basis. But your reaction to that?

SLOTKIN: Yes, I mean, I just don’t understand. You know, if the focus and the priority is on criminals, I'm not sure going after an 11-year-old is where you start. And this is, again, the inconsistency between what they’re saying and then what we saw happen in this past week, right, going after places that were not sanctuary cities, kind of in the sort of – what felt sort of arbitrary way. So, I think, to me, you know, the – the idea of going into children and terrorizing children, I just don’t believe in – in supporting that kind of action. And I don’t believe it, that most Americans think that 11- and 12-year-olds are the ones who are the hardened criminals that need to go back to their countries.

RADDATZ: He did make a point of saying that would be on a case by case basis.

But let’s talk – let’s talk about the military, 1,500 on the way, or already there. There’s probably more to come. Those troops will be armed this time.

First of all, your reaction to those military slides (ph) and – and the influx of troops going to the border and – and the idea that they are armed.

SLOTKIN: Yes, I mean, look, I think we’ve had multiple administrations who have sent uniformed troops, active-duty troops, to the southern border in support roles, right? According to our Constitution, you can go in supporting roles, logistics, driving, setting up facilities, setting up, you know, border locations, whatever. It’s very different when you cross the line into law enforcement.

Our military are not trained as law enforcement officers. They’ll be the first one to tell you that. That’s not why they got into service. And it’s also in violation of our Constitution. So, I think it’s very important that we keep that line.

We knew that the administration was going to use military aircraft to start sending people home. They – they are – were going to put that on TV. We knew that.

But you’re coming right up to that line of logistics and support and law enforcement. If there’s people, as they say, that are criminals on those planes, who is the one enforcing order on those planes? You just become really close to it.

So, it was something that I raised with Mr. Hegseth in his confirmation hearing. I just want to know, you know, not that you’re pledging an oath to Donald Trump, but you’re not going to use the uniformed military in ways that violates the Constitution and makes American citizens scared of their own military. That was -- we know, we were scared of the British when they occupied us. We don't want to repeat that. So I'm watching that very, very closely.

RADDATZ: And you brought up Pete Hegseth, who was narrowly confirmed with J.D. Vance breaking the tie there. What are your concerns? You voted against him and had some pretty tough questions for him about his job going forward. What are your concerns?

SLOTKIN: I mean -- but as I stated, I mean, I've been very consistent with all the people that I've been talking to in these hearings, right, whether it's the secretary of the agriculture candidate or Homeland Security or secretary of Defense, confirm for me that you understand you're going to be raising your right hand and pledging an oath to the Constitution, not Donald Trump, and that if Donald Trump asks you to do something that contravenes the Constitution, you would push back.

It's not theoretical, right? The former secretary of Defense under Trump, Mark Esper, said that Trump asked him to send in the 82nd Airborne to put down peaceful protests in Washington, D.C. He convinced him against it. I want to know that this secretary isn't a watered down version of the previous secretaries and is going to actually push back. He couldn't unambiguously say that he will push back if the president asked him to do something that wasn't constitutional.

And that, to me, is why I couldn't confirm him. There's a lot of other things in his background I don't like but I look at what is the strategic and irreversible threats to our democracy, and that's using the uniformed military in ways that violate the Constitution.

RADDATZ: You have the confirmation hearing this week of Tulsi Gabbard for director of National Intelligence. You spent a good part of your career in intelligence. What do you want to ask her?

SLOTKIN: Well, I'm not technically in those hearings, but we will be voting on her. Look, I mean, people have been asking me, other senators have been asking me, you want someone of character and of competence, right? And I served with Tulsi Gabbard. We were on the Armed Services Committee together. She didn't spend a lot of time showing up to hearings, so I didn't get to like see her in action all that much.

But from what I understand from people who have been meeting directly with her, and she hasn't asked to meet with me, is that she doesn't show the competence, the understanding, the depth. She wasn't prepared for her meetings. Not to mention the deeply questionable decisions she's made of cozying up to Vladimir Putin, flying and cozying up with Assad in Syria. You know, having someone in charge of our intelligence organization that shows a preference for our adversaries, to me is just right off the bat a deep question.

And so, again, I hope that my colleagues on the other side of the aisle, who now have control of the Senate, control of the House, that they think about, again, their commitment to the country, not to any one party. I do not believe she's qualified for this role.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks so much for joining us this morning, Senator. Much appreciated.

Up next, just a week into the job, President Trump issues a slew of executive orders. Will some have a short shelf life? Our legal experts give their verdict when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since I became the 47th president at noon on Monday, I have been moving with urgency and historic speed, to fix every single calamity of the Biden administration that they've created. Every single day of my term, we're living by the motto, “Promises made, promises kept”. I kept my promises.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: President Trump speaking to supporters in Las Vegas Saturday, touting action on promises he made as a candidate. He's also issued executive orders at a furious pace on a host of issues. But will it all hold up in court?

Let's ask our legal experts: former New Jersey governor and U.S. attorney, Chris Christie, and Preet Bharara, former U.S. attorney for the Southern District of New York.

Welcome to the show, gentlemen. Good to see you here, Chris.

Let's start with you, Chris. President Trump issued the slew of unilateral executive actions. What is the legality here? What can he do? What can't he do?

CHRIS CHRISTIE (R), FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Look, Martha, it varies from subject to subject, and so there's some where it's very clear that he can do certain things, and particularly in the area of immigration and directing troops. That's certainly --

RADDATZ: He can't create new power. So --

CHRISTIE: No, he certainly cannot create new power, although he'll try, and I think you'll see that. He -- look, Donald Trump, more than anything else, would like to have a presidency where his say goes no matter what.

Now the Constitution is a bit of an impediment to that, and what he'll do through these executive orders is throw as much up against the wall as he possibly can, and if it gets knocked out (ph) by the courts, he can blame the courts for his promises not being kept, and if it gets upheld, he can say, look how strong a leader I am.

And so, from a legal perspective, you will see a lot of court actions. We’ve seen already, and you’re going to see more of them. Now, I think that, oh, some of these executive orders will be struck down. One of them has already gone a temporary restraining order against it and I think you’ll see more of that.

RADDATZ: The birthright.

CHRISTIE: Yes, the birthright citizenship which seems to be to be a very clear constitutional issue that he's on the wrong side of.

RADDATZ: And, Preet, as you look at these, 51 so far. What's precedent here in terms of numbers, and as Chris said, he's just kind of flooding the zone here. Is that the point?

PREET BHARARA, FORMER U.S. ATTORNEY FOR SOUTHERN DISTRICT OF NEW YORK: You know, I guess that's the point. As Chris sort of alluded to, this is a win-win for Trump and his administration because either the policies are enacted and upheld and he gets his policy or they're not and he gets to blame other people, and he still gets to rely on the message, the political message to his base that he wants to put forward.

So, on birthright citizenship where I wholly agree with Chris and virtually every other legal expert and lawyer who spent a year or two in law school would agree, that's not going to fly.

RADDATZ: And --

BHARARA: But he sends a message to his base.

RADDATZ: The judge specifically said, is there any lawyer who could claim this order was constitutional? I take it you don't think so.

BHARARA: No, I mean, he said -- it's maybe the most, you know, lacking in basis in the Constitution argument that he's seen in 40 years on the bench, and he's no left-wing liberal.

But Donald Trump gets to make his point. You know, some of these executive orders are kind of superfluous, have no point at all. There's one about free speech and censorship which as I read it is just an elongation of the First Amendment. It’s already in the First Amendment.

So, some of these things are pure message. Some of these things are, you know, hopeful, aspirational policy.

It's also interesting to me that you have an administration that constantly talks about wanting to live up to the letter of the law and the letter of the Constitution, and promotes such a blatantly unconstitutional executive order.

So I think a lot of these things are not going to fly, but it's going to take a while, and meanwhile, Donald Trump and his -- and his allies and his supporters have the arguments that they want to make and bludgeon the other side with.

RADDATZ: And, Chris, I want to specifically talk about Trump firing the 17 inspectors general.

Should have told Congress about this 30 days in advance. What happens with this one?

CHRISTIE: Well, first off, if you are Donald Trump, and you've got a three-vote majority in the United States Senate and Lisa Murkowski and Mitch McConnell and Susan Collins have already shown themselves to be willing to say no to him, you don't want to tick off Chuck Grassley. And if you look at Senator Grassley's comments, the chairman of the Judiciary Committee, he's not happy about the fact that they didn't get notice and he's going to want to know what the extraordinary circumstances were for the firing of these inspectors general.

So what I would say to you, Martha, is from a legal perspective, he's not right. He needs to give this notice.

On the other hand, he doesn't care. I mean, he -- if he wants to get in a fight with Chuck Grassley over this, he's going to. To him, it's about letting all these people know who is in charge.

And you could see that from some of the transfers he's made in the Department of Justice. You could see it from some of the other firings that he's made. You could see it even -- even from the wholly irresponsible, selfish, vindictive action of pulling Mike Pompeo's security detail. This is a guy who helped to execute the assassination of Soleimani in Iran at Donald Trump's order.

RADDATZ: And John Walton and Dr. Fauci.

CHRISTIE: Right, at Donald Trump's order. Brian Hook, these folks have all put themselves at risk, Fauci aside, the three on the foreign policy area, the ones I'm most concerned about, and there's an active death threat against all three of them because of what then President Trump ordered them to do.

These are the kind of actions and you add it to the Inspector Generals and all the rest where he says, remember he said, I am your retribution during the campaign. This is how he's executing it in part.

RADDATZ: And Preet, I want to ask you about, specifically about the pardons of the January 6th rioters. And Joe Biden had some pardons there at the end as well.

BHARARA: Yeah. Look, there are people who have been president of the United States who've engaged in pardons that are not necessarily appropriate or wise, or are popular. Bill Clinton did it. In my opinion, Joe Biden did it at the end of his presidency just a few days ago.

But then Donald Trump, as in so many areas has says -- I see your pardons, hold my beer. And he goes far, far beyond. Again, as I said about the issue of aspiring to be a constitutionalist, as the Trump people say that they are, and belying that by the kinds of things they propose, they pretend to be law and order supporters.

And you have -- and I'm not going to repeat what so many other people have said this past week -- dozens and dozens and dozens of officers treated violently at the hands of some of these people who were pardoned, and it doesn't matter to Donald Trump. Further to what Chris said a second ago, these executive orders and these actions are not just policy proposals. They're not just messages. They're also tests.

You can put a lot of blame on some of these policies and proposals, and you can talk about flooding the zone on the part of Donald Trump. But there are mechanisms in place, structurally and otherwise, to stop these things. And the question is, will they -- will they stand up to him?

RADDATZ: And Chris, I want -- I got about 10 seconds for you. I just want your reaction to the pardons.

CHRISTIE: Look, I think the pardons by Joe Biden were disgraceful and I think Donald Trump has taken it to another level as well. This -- these are the two most selfish politicians in the presidency in my lifetime. Joe Biden pardoning his family proves it, and Donald Trump trying to whitewash January 6th proves it.

RADDATZ: OK, that was quite a 10 seconds. Thanks. Thanks for both of you for joining us this morning. Coming up, with Elon Musk now working side by side with President Trump, we spoke with the man who literally wrote the book on the world's richest man. My conversation with Elon Musk biographer, Walter Isaacson, when we come back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ELON MUSK, CEO, TESLA AND SPACEX: This is what victory feels like. Yeah! And this was no ordinary victory. This was a fork in the road of human civilization.

One of the most American values that I love is optimism, and this feeling, like, we're going to – we're going to make the future good. We're going to make it good.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: That was Elon Musk speaking at Donald Trump's inaugural rally here in Washington on Monday. Musk, the richest person on this planet who has dreams of taking humankind to Mars, has been tasked by President Trump to make government more efficient. The man who's known for launching rockets and electrifying cars is an enigma to many, but few know him better than Walter Isaacson, who wrote the number one best-selling biography, "Elon Musk." We sat down with Walter to pull back the curtain on Trump's favorite tech titan.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: You spent two years with him?

WALTER ISAACSON, AUTHOR, "ELON MUSK" & TULANE UNIVERSITY HISTORY PROFESSOR: Two years by his side, yes.

RADDATZ: Followed him around everywhere?

ISAACSON: And watching his mood swings, and watching him do amazing things, but also watching him really become intense.

RADDATZ: And describe that a little more, really becoming intense.

ISAACSON: You know, he has a mode that's engineering mode, where he can do things, like, figure out how to do a rocket landing upright and catch it with the arms. And he has a very giddy mode and a silly mode. But he also has what one of his friends calls demon mode, which is, when he gets really dark and he's really intense about something, there's no distracting him, and he can leave a lot of rubble in his wake.

RADDATZ: You start the book by saying, “As a kid growing up in South Africa, Elon Musk knew pain and learned how to survive it.”

ISAACSON: Psychological pain, he learned as a child, physical pain. He was beaten up. He was bullied. He's on the autism spectrum, so he had no friends, and he would sit in the corner of the bookstore reading X-man comics and science fiction, and imagine himself as a sort of superhero avatar in his own video game.

RADDATZ: This week especially it's been pretty extraordinary. There – there he was by Donald Trump's side, basically in the cabinet. He now has an office on the White House grounds.

What is that about?

ISAACSON: You know, Elon Musk really wants to blow up and disrupt the bureaucracy and all the things he feels is choking American growth. And it's something that Trump, I think, loves billionaires and loves people who are kind of on the edge and crazy. And so they're suited to each other. They're kind of bonded on this project.

RADDATZ: You have made the point, however, that the federal government is not something Elon Musk owns. And I'm harkening back to a statement that Robert Gates, the former defense secretary, spent a lot of time in the federal government. He said it's like a dinosaur, heavy feet, small brain, little hands. It's a new challenge for Elon Musk.

ISAACSON: This is the biggest challenge. And Musk doesn't own the federal government the way he owns Tesla or pretty much controls Tesla and SpaceX. And so he's going to have to keep Trump's backing if he's really going to blow up regulations and the bureaucracy. I think Musk is going to go hell-bent to get things done.

RADDATZ: And DOGE, as it's called, the Department of Government Efficiency, Ramaswamy's already out. And Steve Bannon isn’t quite in that circle. He wasn't up there with the tech billionaires.

ISAACSON: You know, Elon Musk doesn't really have good partnerships in working well with others. He tends to want to be in charge.

The big fight was with Bannon, sort of the populist type of Republican conservativism, versus in some ways the tech utopian, tech bro populism of an Elon Musk. And Bannon said, I'm going to make sure that by Inauguration Day Musk is no longer around. But you saw the scene, there's musk sitting in front of the commerce secretary and Bannon's not to be found.

RADDATZ: On Tuesday, day after the inaugural, President Trump announced a $500 billion infrastructure investment into Stargate A.I. You had Sam Altman there. You had a few other tech heavyweights, but not Elon Musk.

And then later, Elon Musk was saying those guys don't have the money.

ISAACSON: Musk can develop intense rivalries and there are two chapters in the book of this sort of intensity against Sam Altman, because they started OpenAI together. This whole idea of artificial intelligence, they were going to create this company that was going to be open and nonprofit. And when Sam Altman decided to make it a closed system and for-profit, Musk just never forgave him.

And so, you're seeing this battle happened just this week.

RADDATZ: So it wasn't against Trump in any way. It was just all about Altman. And in fact, Trump said --

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Elon, one of the people he happens to hate, but I have certain hatreds of people, too.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: Like they're bonding over hatred for --

ISAACSON: You know, they are in some ways, they both have resentments and that's exactly what Trump said. Obviously, you can see throughout the history the resentment that Musk has built up with Sam Altman. And I’ve seen them together, they'll talk, but there's a resentment.

Likewise, Donald Trump's the same. He has deep resentments against people, but then sometimes he's sitting there joking with them -- whether it's Adam Schiff or Barack Obama.

RADDATZ: Did anything surprise you about Musk and Trump so far?

ISAACSON: No. You know, if you read throughout the story of him being in weird ways attracted to the power of Trump, the larger than life quality of Trump, Musk's whole life has been leading up to having some role like this, and I think it's going to leave a lot of rubble in its way, just like his rockets do. But I think it's going to get a lot done.

RADDATZ: If that relationship falls apart, if after one year or maybe before, think it would be Musk that ended it or Donald Trump?

ISAACSON: Oh, I think it lasts for a year and I think that's all -- it's really destined to last, for maybe 18 months, because Musk doesn't want to stay in.

And yes, there will be divisions because Trump doesn't like to share the limelight, and Musk has never worked for anybody before.

And it's a relationship where they both have their interest being served. But you've never really had somebody this rich, this powerful and this intense be a partner of a president of the United States and to have his own mission and be willing at times it seems to defy a bit what the president wants.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: Our thanks to Walter Isaacson and that terrific book.

Coming up, Republicans have complete control of Congress but does President Trump care? The roundtable on why executive action is taking center stage in Washington these days when we come back.

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RADDATZ: Are any of President Trump's remaining cabinet nominees in danger of not making it through? Find out when we come back with the Roundtable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: We are back with the Roundtable. John Harris, he is Politico's Global Editor-in-Chief; David Sanger is the White House and National Security Correspondent for the New York Times; and Rachael Bade is an ABC News Contributing Political Correspondent and Politico's Capitol Bureau Chief who said "A lot of Politico here today."

(LAUGH)

JOHN HARRIS, POLITICO GLOBAL EDITOR-IN-CHIEF: Love it.

RADDATZ: But we need a lot of Politico today. And John, I want to start with you on that note. It was hard to miss your headline in your column this week right after inauguration saying, "Time to admit it. Trump is a great president. He's still trying to be a good one." Explain.

HARRIS: Sure. And that headline was maybe a little bit of a hand grenade to get people's attention. But the argument I was making is, President Trump is great in the sense of being a large and consequential figure who is putting his imprint on every aspect of American politics, even American culture. That's quite distinct from saying, oh, he's a good president whose policies are in the public interest and that are going to make the country better. That is of course the source of a terrific argument and I don't weigh in on that.

RADDATZ: You said he has everything his supporters hoped for and everything is adversaries feared.

HARRIS: Absolutely. And I think the point that is obvious this week is that President Trump is not a fluke, as a lot of Democrats thought after 2016 and thought throughout his first term. And I think now, you have to say he also has legitimacy. He didn't steal the 2024 election. He won it, not by a huge margin, but by a pervasive margin geographically and among these groups.

What's the significance of that? If somebody is a movement president, that means Democrats have to reckon it with him. They can't just push him to the margins becausehe's singularly awful. He has the support of a huge swath of the American public, and he's using that very purposefully to achieve some big things.

That's what we saw. It's not just a cult of personality. This time it's tied to very disruptive ideas and programs that are dividing the country in historic ways.

RADDATZ: And boy, Rachael, you're seeing that on the hill in your column this week. You basically said, he's steam rolling Republicans.

RACHAEL BADE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTING POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: Yes. I mean, absolutely there's a lot of unity and excitement amongst Republicans right now with their takeover of Washington, but he is really sticking his finger in Republicans' eye on a lot of issues right now. In particular, I mean the January 6th pardon of rioters who went after police officers, the TikTok ban, stopping that when Republicans think that's the national security threat. This move just yesterday, or over the weekend that he's going to fire all these inspector generals without notifying Congress as he was supposed to do under the law.

But look, this is an intentional strategy on the part of Trump's inner circle. I mean, I have talked to people close with Trump who have said the sooner Republicans on the hill, you know, get it in their head that he's the one with the mandate, not them, the better their lives are going to be. So the question is, how much are they going to sort of take on this? I mean, right now Republicans are not protesting. They're just sort of falling in line.

You hear a little bit of criticism, but it's very gentle, and I think that's very telling about how the next four years are going to be out of this White House.

RADDATZ: And David, of course, one of the things he has been doing is taking aim at Biden's policy and cutting staff, especially the National Security Council.

DAVID SANGER, NEW YORK TIMES WHITE HOUSE AND NATIONAL SECURITY CORRESPONDENT: What he's done with the National Security Council in some ways has echoes of what you heard in your interview on immigration with Mr. Homan. He has told the National Security staff, these are career staffers who work, whether as a Democrat or a Republican, they usually come from the State Department or the CIA, or the Energy Department.

They said, you all go home. Don't call us. We'll call you, after we review whether or not we think you are loyal enough to the president. So there's a built-in assumption here that they are the deep state and will get in the way of his initiatives, and you see this to some degree in the way Secretary of State Rubio just announced a blanket halt on all international assistance, right? So they're not going case by case.

They're going to make a point and in the international assistance case to the horror of many of those career staff, they are stopping the flights in of Afghans who helped the United States during the war, of Ukrainians who have gotten visas, legal visas to the United States. So there's a sense in the city right now that right now they are going blanket, not case by case.

RADDATZ: And John, he's also really getting what he wants, including Pete Hegseth, just barely. You covered the Pentagon decades ago. You watched those hearings. Pete Hegseth says he's going to bring back this warrior ethos, but when we talk about loyalty tests, the Pentagon, the military is supposed to be the most apolitical in the nation. So what effect can he have on the Pentagon?

HARRIS: I mean, I think the Pentagon is made up of professional soldiers and professional civil servants who are going to do their best to implement the policies from the commander-in-chief. I think this is a very, very, high-risk appointment for most of all for Donald Trump. This is a hard job and we've seen time and again, we saw it in the Biden administration with the Afghan pullout. We saw it under President Bush, the second. We saw it in the Clinton years. Things can go wrong in national security in an instant, in 24 hours. You can have major setbacks that can shadow a presidency and at times even cripple it. So President Trump has --

RADDATZ: And we've seen that over many years.

HARRIS: -- put somebody without deep experience in the policy issues in a critical job, and to me it's one of the big, big dramas of this administration. How is that going -- how is that big bet going to work out?

RADDATZ: And everybody will be watching them, but was it a surprise to you that everybody -- or nearly all the Republican senators supported Hegseth, and what about Tulsi Gabbard next week?

BADE: You know, I kind of feel like his confirmation was sort of locked in once you saw Joni Ernst support him. I mean, if you can have a woman who served in combat, who is a sexual assault survivor herself --

RADDATZ: Who had questions in the beginning.

BADE: A lot of questions and told Trump that she didn't think, you know, he could get there, she was concerned that he couldn't get there and yet she got in line pretty quickly. I felt like after that it was sort of just a question of how many Republicans would actually vote for him.

But no, I mean, look, I think when we talk about, you know, these nominations, it's important to keep in mind, you know, this frustration that a lot of Republicans are feeling privately, what I just talked about, because Donald Trump is burning capital with a lot of these members.

The question is, how much capital does he have and is it really bottomless at this point? I mean, Tulsi Gabbard is something to really watch this week. I mean, she's going to have this confirmation hearing. We're hearing a lot from Senate Republicans privately that they don't like her. They feel like she's a Democrat, she's on the other team, she has flip flopped on her foreign policy, national security positions way too much.

If they want to make a point and send a signal to Donald Trump that he needs to actually respect them, she could potentially go down. But again, I'm going to believe it when I see it because a lot of these guys, they don't want to be crosswise with the big guy.

RADDATZ: And that was clear certainly from this week. You brought up Marco Rubio, David. What else have you seen that he's doing? I mean, he seems like the most conventional pick from Donald Trump. And yet, what does he do about Panama?

SANGER: So, he is the most conventional pick and I don't think there was anybody who thought, even among the Democrats, he is qualified for the job. The fundamental question that came up about Hegseth was, is this somebody who can think deeply about China and re-orienting the force and move the whole thing?

You know all those questions about Rubio. We know what you were getting there. Rubio is now in two odd positions with President Trump. The first is, if you listen to his hearings, he was much more hawkish on China and the long-term threat than you have heard from President Trump, who's fundamentally a deal maker. And in the TikTok discussion, suddenly, he isn't discussing the threat anymore. He's just talking about what kind of deal he can put together.

The second interesting thing for Rubio is that as he makes his way around the world here, he's now got to explain why it is that Russia taking -- just announcing that it was going to take all of Ukraine is a huge violation of sovereignty, but a president who told me back in early January at Mar-a-Lago, he wouldn't take military force off the table for going after Panama or going after Greenland?

RADDATZ: And John, I just want to end with you and we literally have 10 seconds.

HARRIS: Sure.

RADDATZ: What do you think when you see him on the world stage there, Marco Rubio?

HARRIS: Look, he's -- it's one of the most interesting fault lines. He has a different worldview than the Vice President, J.D. Vance. And so, as we look to the second term, who's the next generation of the Republican Party, that's an interesting debate.

RADDATZ: Very good, keeping (inaudible).

(LAUGH)

RADDATZ: Thanks all of you. Great to see you. We'll be right back.

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RADDATZ: Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and have a great day.