'This Week' Transcript 1-5-25: Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas, Rep. Michael McCaul and Dr. Ashish Jha

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, January 5, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: Homegrown terror. Fourteen killed, dozens injured in a New Year's Day attack.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: To all the people of New Orleans, I grieve with you. Our nation grieves with you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Law enforcement officials search for how and why the killer radicalized.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was 100 percent inspired by ISIS.

STEPHANOPOULOS: An exclusive with the homeland security secretary on the investigation and the national threat environment.

And Texas Republican Congressman Michael McCaul on ISIS efforts to exert influence at home and abroad.

And, Mike Johnson holds on as House Speaker.

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): It is the great honor of my life to serve this body with all of you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Our powerhouse roundtable on the agenda ahead.

Plus, Dr. Ashish Jha on growing concerns over the threat from bird flu.

And –

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: Let us create together a new national spirit of unity and trust.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The nation reflects on the life and legacy of America's longest living president as he's laid to rest.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s THIS WEEK. Here now, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, and welcome to THIS WEEK.

In the wake of the New Year's Day terror attack in New Orleans, security officials across the country are on high alert for a series of high-profile events now feared to be targets. The Golden Globes in L.A. tonight. The certification of the 2024 election at the Capitol tomorrow. Jimmy Carter's state funeral in Washington later this week, followed by Donald Trump's inauguration on January 20th. And the Super Bowl back in New Orleans on February 9th.

Chief justice correspondent Pierre Thomas starts us off with what security experts are calling the most dangerous threat environment since 9/11.

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PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CHIEF JUSTICE CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Within days of the eruption of violence in Israel stemming from Hamas' horrific October 7, 2023, terror attack, FBI and Homeland Security officials worried that homegrown radicals could be energized, a concern that violence even a world away could beget violence here at home, and that radicals of many different ideologies would seek opportunities to use low-tech weapons that would be deadly efficient.

LISA MONACO, DEPUTY ATTORNEY GENERAL: We're in a unique moment, and the current conflict is contributing to that.

THOMAS (voice over): This joint intelligence bulletin from October 19, 2023, flatly states that in response to the Middle East conflict, radicals here in the U.S. “likely would employ unsophisticated tactics,” among them, firearms, knives, and “vehicle ramming attacks, due to easy weapon access.”

Intelligence analysts say by January ISIS sought to capitalize on the violence in Israel. One of its leaders issuing an audio recording calling on supporters and sympathizers to “kill Christian and Jewish targets wherever you find them.” Sources telling ABC News the ISIS calls to action stoked an already volatile threat environment, perhaps the most dangerous since 9/11.

CHRISTOPHER WRAY, FBI DIRECTOR: I would be hard pressed to think of a time where so many threats to our public safety and national security were so elevated all at once.

THOMAS (voice over): And we would soon see hard evidence of a resurgent ISIS still with influence inside the U.S. On April 8th, the FBI arrested this 18-year-old Idaho man, seen here with a knife and ISIS flag, accusing him of planning to commit mass murder at a series of local churches. In October, the FBI charged an Oklahoma City man and a juvenile with plotting an Election Day massacre in the name of ISIS.

MERRICK GARLAND, ATTORNEY GENERAL: We have been warning for quite some time now that we are in a heightened threat environment from malign foreign actors, including, in particular, ISIS.

THOMAS (voice over): In the early hours of New Year's Day, all the fears about ISIS and the use of low-tech weapons, including vehicles, unfolding in New Orleans. Fourteen victims brutally murdered, run over by this pickup truck driven by an alleged ISIS sympathizer who died in a hail of gunfire in a shootout with police. The FBI says he was armed to the teeth with an assault rifle, handgun, and pipe bombs that he hoped to detonate remotely. The anticipated nightmare, fully realized.

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THOMAS: The main focus of the investigation right now, trying to figure out if the suspect was radicalized on his own, or if someone from ISIS directed him in any way. ISIS and other terror groups, including white supremacists, look for events or circumstances to capitalizeon, like the Middle East conflict. They push out so much hate material on social media and trying to figure out who is simply consuming the information, and who might turn terrorist plotting to kill. That's the challenge, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Pierre, you’ve been reporting more on what we saw from those Facebook posts of the – of the killer.

THOMAS: Indeed, George.

We were able to review yesterday some information and a source walked us through what he posted. It's truly chilling. He's so calm, talking about possibly trying to kill his family, and that he was en route to New Orleans. And it was very clear that he was just cold-blooded in his desire to kill many, many people, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Pierre, we just saw John Cohen there, our homeland security expert. As well, John, veteran of the Homeland Security Department. Thank you for joining us as well.

And, John, let me begin with you here. We are coming off a year, New Year’s – after this New Year’s Day attack, coming off a year that was just packed with threats.

JOHN COHEN, FORMER ACTING DHS UNDERSECRETARY FOR INTELLIGENCE & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yes, absolutely, George. You know, in the year leading up to the election, state and local law enforcement officials across the country were having to confront increased levels of cyberattack directed at government operations, efforts by foreign and domestic forces to disrupt government operations, including the election, through bomb threats and other types of disruptive events, threats to public officials, and acts of political violence. We had two assassination attempts directed at a presidential candidate and the incoming president of the United States and – and the FBI and Secret Service disrupted a number of other attacks. Those acts of violence did not end with the election. Just since the election we had a targeted homicide of the CEO of UnitedHealth in New York City, we had a school shooting in Wisconsin, and we had the events of New Year's Day, not to mention a cyberattack directed at the Treasury Department.

So, the threat hasn't ended. It remains in place.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And – and you’ve been focused on this for your entire career in the Homeland Security Department and beyond. How has the threat evolved over the last decade?

COHEN: Well, Pierre hit on this. It's much more – threat actors, whether they be foreign intelligence services, terrorist groups, criminal organizations, have embraced the power of the internet. Much of the violence that I was just describing is fueled by an online ecosystem that's saturated with conspiracy theories and other content that's specifically placed there to inspire acts of violence and to instruct people on how to carry out these types of attacks. And I think, unfortunately, our law enforcement and counterterrorism community has not adapted to the change in threat environment that we're experiencing every day across the nation.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What would that adaptation look like?

COHEN: Well, first, it's – it’s becoming much more aware and studying and analyzing the content that's being placed there by these foreign and domestic threat actors, thinking through how that content could influence physical world activities. The individual who conducted the vehicle ramming attack in New Orleans very clearly he was consuming Islamic state content not only intended to inspire him, but to instruct him on how to conduct a vehicle ramming attack. So, if law enforcement can do a better job studying that online activity, in addition to recognizing the warning signs that may exist in our communities, they can do a better job at detecting and mitigating potential threats.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Pierre, I laid out that series of big, public events coming up over the next months. How are officials preparing for it?

THOMAS: Well, they are rethinking how their can upgrade – they can upgrade the security. Obviously, much more attention being paid to the potential vehicle ramming attacks.

And, George, I would also say that it's clearly a moment – a witch's brew moment, as I call it, where law enforcement now knows it on every level in so many different categories, they must be prepared, and the notion that there will be some people that, you know, are not – you know, that do not come up on the radar screen. My sources telling me last night, so far there's no indication that any information about this suspect was brought to the attention of law enforcement. That's just a real issue.

So, you have to go into some of these major events thinking about the possibility of someone showing up and acting out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This week we also saw that explosion and suicide outside the Trump Hotel in Las Vegas. No connection between New Orleans and Las Vegas except, John Cohen, both perpetrators, veterans of the military. We're seeing increasing radicalization among former military members. How serious a threat?

COHEN: Very serious. Members of our armed forces are not immune to the same underlying factors that are fueling the threat, impacting the nation. We have a number of people, particularly those that have served in conflict zones multiple times who feel disconnected from community, disaffected.

They’re angry. They feel they're being treated unfairly. They're spending significant periods of time online consuming content that's placed there, that’s intended to exploit the divisive issues, or those very issues that may be causing that anger, and increasingly, we are seeing people believe -- come to believe that violence is the only acceptable way to express their views and they're going out and conducting attacks.

During the beginning of the Biden administration, there was an effort to better understand the impact of radicalization on our armed forces, as well as within our law enforcement community. But quite frankly, those efforts didn't really go very far.

STEPHANOPOULOS: John Cohen, Pierre Thomas, thanks very much.

Let's talk more about this now with the Homeland Security Secretary Alejandro Mayorkas.

Secretary Mayorkas, thank you for joining us this morning.

We just heard Pierre Thomas described this as a witch's brew moment. Do you agree?

ALEJANDRO MAYORKAS, HOMELAND SECURITY SECRETARY: It's something that we've been discussing publicly for quite some time, George. We have a heightened threat environment as Director Wray and the attorney general both articulated, and we've been saying this for quite a number of months.

We have not only the persistent threat of foreign terrorism that, of course, created the Department of Homeland Security, but we have adverse nation states, and for the past 10 years, we've seen a significant increase in what we term homegrown violent extremism.

It is a very difficult threat landscape and it is why that we as a -- as a community, not just the federal government, but state and local officials and residents, need to be alert to it and take the precautions necessary to avoid violence from occurring.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So what precautions are being taken ahead of the series of events that I’ve outlined and discussed with Pierre?

MAYORKAS: I think the successful conclusion of the Sugar Bowl is a powerful example of a response to a tragedy and precautionary measures taken in its wake. We deployed additional personnel. We work very closely with public officials and law enforcement in New Orleans to make sure the Sugar Bowl proceeded accordingly. We took additional sweeping measures and screening measures.

So we took a host of actions to supplant -- forgive me, to supplement of that which already was in place and we are proceeding accordingly with respect to tomorrow, the certification of the election, the state funeral of former President Jimmy Carter, the inauguration of President-elect Trump and continuing thereon.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Are you seeing any specific threats or is it just an overall concern?

MAYORKAS: It is an overall concern and when we identify a specific threat, we in law enforcement respond very quickly to it.

In that regard, as we continue to grieve for the victims of the terrorist attack in New Orleans, we also have to take stock of a brief moment of footage that we saw when law enforcement on the scene were notified of the attack, how they ran towards danger. That is a powerful example of what our frontline personnel and law enforcement and the first responder community do each and every day across this country.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, one of the things we saw in the wake of the New Orleans attack, former President Trump immediately went on Truth Social and talked about open border -- open border policy leading in some way, suggested it led in some ways to this event, echoed by something that the new Speaker of the House Mike Johnson also said on Thursday of this week.

I want to play that.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The Biden administration has been completely derelict in its duty that the congressional Republicans, we here in the House and the Senate, have repeatedly asked the DHS under the Biden administration about the correlation -- the obvious concern about terrorism and the wide open border. The idea that dangerous people were coming here in droves and setting up potentially terrorist cells around the country, we have been ringing the alarms.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Of course, the perpetrator is an American citizen raised in Texas.

But how do you respond to that overall argument?

MAYORKAS: George, let me repeat what you said. The assailant who perpetrated the terrorist attack in New Orleans was born in the United States, raised in United States, and served in our Armed Forces. It is not an issue of the border.

With respect to the border, our highest responsibility and one that we work to fulfill each and every day throughout the Department of Homeland Security, throughout the federal government, is the safety and security of the American people. That is what we have incredibly talented and dedicated individuals doing every day in their careers.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You mentioned the possibility of foreign actors as well. What impact is the fall of the Assad regime in Syria had on the threat environment here at home?

MAYORKAS: We’re very concerned about the instability that has resulted from that and whether, in fact, it creates some space for the re-emergence of ISIS in Syria. And ISIS continues to seek to radicalize individuals outside of the Middle East and throughout the world. And that is something that we are, of course, also very focused on. And John Cohen, the expert you had earlier, with whom I have worked very closely for many years, correctly spoke of.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me also ask you about this – this issue of extremism inside the military, radicalization of service members and former service members. The president – former President Trump's nominee for Defense secretary, Pete Hegseth, has called this issue of extremism in the military a sham, suggesting that perhaps some of the efforts to end – to combat extremism are going to end. What's your response?

MAYORKAS: I would say this, George, the phenomenon of radicalization of individuals is not limited to the military. It is something that we are very focused upon in society writ large. The military is not immune to it, nor is the federal work force, but this is something that we have to address as a community, not politicize, but rather be united in confronting and combatting.

STEPHANOPOULOS: There's always a concern that bad actors are going to try to exploit times of transition in order to attack. What kind of coordination have you had with Governor Kristi Noem, who's been nominated to be your successor as Homeland Security secretary, particularly as we focus on the inauguration?

MAYORKAS: I have spoken with Governor Noem a number of times, including on New Year's Day, and immediately thereafter, with respect to the horrific terrorist attack. And we have spoken substantively about the measures that we take. And I am incredibly devoted to a smooth and successful transition, to the success of Governor Noem should she be confirmed as the secretary of Homeland Security. And I very much appreciated her focus on the substantive issues that we were discussing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary Mayorkas, thanks for your time this morning.

MAYORKAS: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's get a Republican response now from Congressman Mike McCaul, the former chairman of the Homeland Security Committee. Also the former chairman of the House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Congressman McCaul, thank you for joining us this morning.

REP. MICHAEL MCCAUL, (R) TEXAS & (R) FOREIGN AFFAIRS COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN EMERITUS & (R) HOMELAND SECURITY COMMITTEE CHAIRMAN EMERITUS: Yes, thanks for having me.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What are the big questions you have about the threat environment right now?

MCCAUL: I think it's a rising threat. When I chaired the Homeland Security Committee, we had a lot of external operations like, you know, explosives on airplanes. Then it morphed into radicalization on the internet. I think you asked that question earlier about the evolution of the threat. And so particularly the – I would say the New Orleans case was radicalization online.

But what we're worried about, in that case, is his travels to Egypt and what was going on there. He was involved with a rare bombmaking material that was not available in the United States.

So, I know that they're saying this is a, you know, kind of a lone wolf type of situation, but there are some – seem to be some real ISIS connections her that need to be followed up.

And I know the FBI and Homeland are working very diligently scrubbing through the hard drives, laptops and cell phones to find out what happened. But also, what was he doing in Egypt for a month? He comes back. It reminds me so much, George, of the Boston bomber, who traveled to Dagestan, came back, and then built this pressure cooker bomb that led to the deaths of so many people in that marathon.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What's your advice to the incoming Trump administration on what their top priority should be right now to address this threat?

MCCAUL: It's real. I think there's an uptick in it. I think the Christmas market vehicle attack, it’s an easy way – it’s a – it’s a – like a new a killer machine, a vehicle, that can be easily used. And I think they’ve got to be very focused on this.

The other thing, George, I'm – I'm very worried about is, with the fall of Afghanistan and – and the debacle, and with what happened there, we are seeing a resurgence of ISIS and ISIS-k in the Khorasan region between Afghanistan and Pakistan that concerns me greatly. Now we have seen – we know that eight ISIS individuals have centered the United States through that.

So, you really have two types of threats. One is operational. The other one is inspired attacks, radicalized over the internet. They're both equally lethal. And they need to be focused on to stop it.

There are usually warning signs though, you know, in these cases. I don't really see a whole lot of warning signs at least so far other than right before the attacks. We have to pay attention to the social media and connect the dots before these events happen.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Before you go, I also want to ask you about Ukraine. You've been a strong supporter of aid to Ukraine as chair of House Foreign Affairs Committee.

Do you believe that former President Trump shares your sense of urgency there?

MCCAUL: Well, I do believe Keith Kellogg, the special envoy, I've talked to him many times. He believes that we cannot afford to lose Ukraine to Russia. That would be a horrible foreign policy decision that would put us in the position of losing to Russia, and Ukraine, and threatening Eastern Europe.

And the fact is, George, I can't overemphasize, as I have to my colleagues, it's not just Putin. Putin is aligned with Chairman Xi in China, who threatens the Indo-Pacific. He's also aligned with the Ayatollah in the Middle East who we have seen threatened Israel. And they're all in this together. And Kim Jong-un sent 10,000 troops of his own to fight Ukraine's.

I just think that they're all in this together. We've got to take it seriously. If we can negotiate a peaceful settlement, great, but I think the Ukrainians need more leverage that the current administration has not given them and when they have that leverage going to the table they'll have more I think power.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But I guess I'm going to go back to the question. Do you think that President Trump has shared, has used that leverage effectively in the past? Is he prepared to use it in the future?

MCCAUL: The what now?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think that president -- former President Trump has used that leverage that you discussed in the past, is he prepared to use it in the future?

MCCAUL: Well, I don't think the Biden administration has given them the leverage. I think President Trump does want to end the war, have a peaceful negotiation. We're all for that, but it's got to be on terms that do not throw Ukraine under the bus. They were thrown under the bus in the Budapest agreements where they gave up all their nuclear weapons in assurance for security, and guess what happened? There was none.

And if there is a deal cut, we have to have teeth in that enforcement agreement such that if Russia ever invades again, there will be consequences because they gave up all their nuclear weapons, Ukraine did, and there was no response after the Budapest agreement on that.

I think NATO is stronger now, and I hope the president recognizes that. They're an important ally. And just as I went to Battle of the Bulge and honored those troops, 1939, history does repeat itself, and we're seeing it threaten the Indo-Pacific and in Europe, very similar to what we saw in 1939.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman McCaul, thanks for your time this morning.

MCCAUL: Thanks, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Coming up, remembering the life and legacy of former president Jimmy Carter. We're back in a moment.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: When historians write the paragraph on Jimmy Carter 100 years from now, what do you want to be at the top of the list?

JIMMY CARTER, FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT: I’d say maybe at peace and human rights. I kept the country at peace for four years, and promoted peace for all the people like Egypt and Israel and opened up new avenues of commerce and trade between us and China, and that sort of things. And we’ve been champions of human rights. So I think those two things are the ones that I hope to be remembered.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: And they certainly are going to be remembered for that.

That was my interview with former President Carter in 2015, and we're going to look at the start of his remembrance events under way in Georgia when we come back.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: There you see the Carter Center in Atlanta this morning where former President Jimmy Carter is lying in repose. He passed away one week ago today at the age of 100, the longest living president in American history.

Yesterday kicked off a week of services honoring the 39th president.

Our senior national correspondent, Steve Osunsami, reports from Georgia.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

STEVE OSUNSAMI, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): It was a cold January Day, but the sun shined brightly on Jimmy Carter. As many would tell you here, it was a perfect moment to call him home to the heavens.

This will be a national goodbye for the former president that will last for days, and it started with members of his family outside the rural hospital that quietly cared for the president and former first lady for years. The Secret Service agents who protected them carried his casket.

People came from small towns in Georgia and from around the world to line the roads and say goodbye.

The first stop was at his childhood home in front of a large bell at his family's old farm that would wake them up in the morning. They rang that bell 39 times to honor this 39th president.

After a four-hour drive through back country roads, the former president's remains arrived at the Georgia State Capitol, stopping for a moment of silence in a place where he once served as a state senator and governor.

Before he died, the former president insisted that the first event of his funeral take place at The Carter Center in Atlanta, in front of the staff, scientists, and peacemakers who he worked with over the years to help improve lives around the world.

JASON CARTER, PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER'S GRANDSON: Celebrating this incredible life and a life that I think we can all agree is as full and powerful as any life can be. As someone said, it's amazing what you can cram into a hundred years.

(LAUGH)

OSUNSAMI (voice-over): Carter's one-term presidency wasn't as beloved as his time afterwards.

(APPLAUSE)

OSUNSAMI (voice-over): His genuine accomplishments on the world stage were overshadowed by high inflation at home and by a hostage crisis in Iran. But it helped set the stage for his time after the White House, where he redefined what it means to serve one's country, from building homes for the poor with Habitat for Humanity to ending diseases with his team of experts at The Carter Center. It would win him the Nobel Peace Prize in 2002, but he would never forget where he came from. Always coming home to Plains, Georgia where he and the love of his life, former First Lady Rosalyn Carter, lived out their years.

CHIP CARTER, PRESIDENT JIMMY CARTER'S SON: He was an amazing man and he was held up and propped up and soothed by an amazing woman, and the two of them together cheated the world. And it was an amazing thing to watch from so close.

OSUNSAMI (voice-over): After a state funeral in the nation's capital on Thursday, he will be buried next to her in a private ceremony. It was a spot they picked out before she died, next to a willow tree, together again.

OSUNSAMI: Here at The Carter Center, people have come through the night to pay their respects at the visitation inside. Outside, they're leaving flowers and jars of peanuts at the sign directly behind me. He was, of course, in addition to everything else, one of the world's most famous former peanut farmers. There's a phrase I'm hearing over and over again, George, and that is that they just don't make them like this anymore.

And that's because this is a former leader of the free world who never forgot where he came from, who always loved his wife and didn't care so much about fancy cars or fancy homes. To many people, he is just simply an honest man. George?

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Steve, you've covered the former president for such a long time, but what strikes you most on a personal level?

OSUNSAMI (on camera): On a personal level, I'm struck by his stubborn frugality. He was -- he was -- he was very stubborn about that. I remember interviewing him once at The Carter Center here, and it was extremely hot. And I tried to get them to turn on the air conditioning and they were telling me that he would never, ever let any of us step on his power bill. At his home, I heard stories from his family about old appliances that they wanted to switch out and change and improve, and he wouldn't let them because the old ones worked.

He was from a generation that -- that valued hard work and honesty. And I'm also struck by the love that he had for his wife. It was very important to him, his wife and her support. They were a true team and as he said, it was the love he had for her that powered him through this world and was in a -- and was going to get him into the next. George?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah. And marrying her, he said, was the best decision he ever made. What more can we expect this week as the former president makes his way to Washington?

OSUNSAMI (on camera): The visitation here in Atlanta continues until Tuesday morning. Then his remains will be moved to Washington where there will also be another public visitation. Then the state funeral is scheduled on Thursday where President Biden will deliver a eulogy. After that, President Carter will head home here to Georgia for a private ceremony at his home where he will be buried alongside his wife. And George, it will be a spot that he and his wife picked out together before she died. George?

STEPHANOPOULOS: And I know you'll be part of our full coverage. That all starts on Tuesday. Steve Osunsami, thanks. We'll be right back with the Roundtable.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: The American people have called on us to reject business as usual and throw out the status quo. We must and we will heed their call. Working together, we have the potential to be one of the most consequential congresses in the history of this great nation. So long as we work together, we do the right thing, and we put America first.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

STEPHANOPOULOS: House Speaker Mike Johnson re-elected on Friday after a couple of ballots. One of the things we're going to talk about on our roundtable with former DNC Chair Donna Brazile, the executive editor of “The Associated Press,” Julie Pace, “New York Times” national political reporter Astead Herndon, and the Manhattan Institute President Reihan Salam.

Thank you all for being here this morning.

Julie, let me begin with you.

Such a narrow margin in the House. Not 15 ballots for – for Mike Johnson, like Kevin McCarthy. Just a couple. But what did we learn from this election?

JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: Well, look, I think we learned that Johnson has the backing of President Trump for now, incoming President Trump, and that's crucial for him and really any Republican leader right now. You can't survive without having Trump’s backing. He's going to owe Trump some things coming out of this election to the speakership.

He's going to owe him moving forward Trump's agenda in the way Trump wants it done. And that's going to be the challenge, because within that very narrow Republican majority, there are big differences in how to enact that agenda, particularly around how you offset the extension of the Trump tax cuts, how you make sure that you're not adding, you know, to government spending here. You're going to see moderate Republicans who are going to be resistant to some of the really steep spending cuts that would be required to – to pull that off. And that's even before you get into raising the debt ceiling, any of the immigration policies that Trump wants to enact. So, a win for Johnson for now, but a lot of challenges to come.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Reihan, what, if anything, did President Trump give up in order to get those – those few votes that he needed for Mike Johnson?

REIHAN SALAM, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE PRESIDENT: Well, I don't think he gave up very much. I think fundamentally the president-elect has an enormous amount of authority. And much of the opposition you've seen from the House Freedom Caucus has been more procedural and personality-based than really ideological. What we're seeing is, for now, the enormous leverage that the president-elect has within his party.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NEW YORK TIMES NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: I mean, I think that the biggest reason Speaker Johnson was able to kind of secure this is because no one else wants the job. And it’s proven to be a kind of dead man walking in the Republican house, right, going back to Paul Ryan, going back to Kevin McCarthy, as you said. But I think to Julie's point, the differences within the Republican caucus are large. And so, when it gets to enacting an agenda, those differences are going to come out.

They’ve been papered over, over the last couple years if they’ve been an opposition party. But specifically when it comes to spending, and when it comes to enacting those immigration enforcements, we’re going to see that – Johnson’s tasks become more difficult. And we've seen Donald Trump, obviously, have such transactional relationships with people. And Speaker Johnson is working for him right now. The question is, will he be working for him in six months?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hard to imagine any Democrats voting for any part of that agenda, at least for right now.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Why? I mean there's no reason. I mean I thought Leader Jeffries laid it out really well when he said, here are the areas where we can agree. We can agree that we can fix the borders, but we need comprehensive immigration reform. We can agree that we can raise the debt ceiling, but we’re going to protect entitlements, Social Security and Medicare.

Look, as a -- as an old House staffer, it's always interesting, George, to watch, you know, the first day, the swearing in ceremony, to see the Democratic Caucus, the most diverse caucus in American history.

But to look at my Republican friends and to see the struggle that they're going through, watching Steve Scalise count the votes, this is going to happen on every vote in the House from now until they secure more members.

I believe that Speaker Johnson will have to call on Hakeem Jeffries to help pass crucial bills like the March 20th reconciliation, like the debt ceiling, and perhaps much more.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, that's going to be the big question, Julie Pace. Fifty-three Republicans in the Senate, not 60. So the question is for President Trump, can he get all of his agenda into this reconciliation package which only requires a majority, or will he need Democrats?

PACE: Well, that's what he wants. He wants to get it together at once, and some of this is because, you know, any president, even a president like Trump who has consolidated power within his party, you have a pretty narrow window to get big ticket items through because you start getting into those midterm cycles and, again, your more moderate members are going to be more cautious on what they're voting for here.

So, how they do this procedurally -- you know, procedure doesn't tend to be the most fun thing to talk about, but actually, the procedural process is going to be really crucial for them.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In this case, Reihan, that’s true. I mean, we -- reconciliation is a term that most Americans don't understand in terms of the budget, but it’s crucially important because then you only need a majority. You don't need the 60 votes. He's got to cram his entire agenda into that package.

REIHAN SALAM, MANHATTAN INSTITUTE PRESIDENT: Well, he doesn't need to, and that's why Senate Majority Leader Thune has been saying, guys, let's focus on a more encompassing, broad based, potentially bipartisan package on defense, on the border.

Now, right now, President Trump is resistant to that, but that's the kind of package that could build momentum, political momentum, legislative momentum, that would then help grease the wheels for the more difficult fiscal policy questions coming down the line when it comes to extending the tax cuts.

ASTEAD HERNDON, NEW YORK TIMES NATIONAL POLITICAL REPORTER: But one macro point I think can't be lost here, is that the difference between Trump last time and this time is that Republicans have been talking about how they felt thwarted in the first Trump administration by congressional Republicans. And so, there is a base of Republicans that will be pressuring their members of Congress to enact Trump's agenda in full, and I think a different way.

And so, I know that there's a procedural question are key, obviously this year, but I think we're going to see a Trump administration that's less willing to kind of go through those type of steps and more willing to be creative about how they make these things happen in the way that it can even blow up bureaucracy, and all those other things.

I think we should think of them going around Congress as much as we think of how they’re going to get through Congress.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You can't go around Congress on the debt limit.

HERNDON: So, for sure, for sure, for sure.     I’m talking about things like immigration, though.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Right, on the debt limit, you've got so many Republicans who said they're never going to vote for an increase in debt -- debt limit. President Trump, of course, needs to extend it.

BRAZILE: Yeah. I mean, look, he tried to get it eliminated so that he could, you know, get his way come in when -- when the extension is over with.

The fact is Mr. Thune has said that he's going to preserve the filibuster. That's a math problem in the United States Senate. It's a math problem also in the House, George, because Speaker Johnson is about to lose two House members who are nominated for important positions in the Trump cabinet.

So, this map problem is not going to work in the Republicans' favor unless they understand they need to come to Democrats. There are Democrats who supported some of Trump's agenda in the first term. I am sure that the president once he decides, the president-elect, once he decides to open the door, he might get a few, but he's not going to get a few by bullying Democrats and threatening to primary Democratic members.

PACE: Well -- and Donna's earlier point is a good one. What is the incentive for Democrats to help push any part of the Trump agenda forward? If they can get something out of it, then you could see on certain pieces of this, potentially. But right now, Democrats have very little incentive electorally or from a policy standpoint in doing that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the first orders of business that former President Trump has promised, of course, is pardoning the January 6th rioters. Tomorrow, the anniversary of the January 6th riots. New certification -- we've talked about the security threat, Astead Herndon, but in your paper this morning, "The New York Times," a great chronicling of the remarkable transformation of the view of January 6th created by President Trump.

HERNDON: Absolutely. This has been a Republican effort that started in the weeks after the January 6th attack. I remember writing a story January 17th, just 11 days after the attack about how Republicans were warping the language around January 6th, and tying a different narrative.

I was outside the federal prison where January 6th prisoners were the day Trump was indicted himself, and they were -- they were -- they knew at that time that him getting elected meant they had an opportunity to be pardoned.

This has been the thing that Trump talks about at his rallies, and for the most fervent part of his base, they are fully engulfed in a warped language that has completely misrepresented the types of actions we saw on that date.

They have turned it from something that was a shameful act, something universally condemned on that day to being something they actually rally around, and it speaks to I think the misinformation ecosystem that's taken root among a bunch of people.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there any risk for President Trump in those pardons?

SALAM: Well, one of the big issues here is, yes, what happened for Trump's base and how he turned January 6th into a rallying cry, as Astead pointed out, but also what happened outside of his base. And one of the things there is that there's a perception, fair or otherwise, that Democrats have equivocated about political violence from anti-Israel protestors, more recently, the killing of United Health CEO, Brian Thompson.

There's a sense that there's some hypocrisy here that really dulled the outrage that a large majority of Americans felt about January 6th. And that's really important context here. So there's risk for Trump, absolutely, but I think that that dulling of the outrage is a much bigger part of the political side (ph).

BRAZILE: You know, the violence of any kind has no place in our society.

SALAM: Absolutely.

BRAZILE: And we have to -- we have to condemn it. And look, whether you're a Democrat or a Republican, you have to be an American. That means I'll never forget that day, not only because -- I was on Fox News. I mean, I just said the quiet part out loud, and I'm sitting there thinking to myself, how the hell are they marching down the street? You need a permit. You -- the Capitol is closed. This is an official day of business and I'm being as rational as possible. And then I recognized with all of the lies and disinformation that people actually thought that they could stop the peaceful transfer of power.

Seeing the news, seeing the policemen, the police officers, people that I had worked with that, had seen all my young adult life on Capitol Hill, and those police families are still hurt. D.C. still feels wounded by what happened on January 6th. So I really do believe that tomorrow, you're going to see a different picture. You're going to see a vice president, much like Mike Pence, stand before the nation for the peaceful transfer of power. We have to return back to those norms that made this country what it is today.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We're also going to see, Julie Pace, at the end of this week, a remarkable moment, the sentencing of a former president for a felony.

PACE: It is incredible to think about where we were a year, 18 months ago, in terms of the legal threats against President Trump. We will see a final sort of piece of that this week with the sentencing, almost certainly the judge has already signaled this, no jail time given that he's about to serve as president of the United States. But those legal threats against him actually ended up being a political force for good for his -- for his prospects.

He really was able to use the prosecutions to argue that he was being targeted, that these were politically motivated, and we saw that a large portion of the American public believes that. He goes into office now, really being able to, I think, put that part of his -- his life behind him.

SALAM: And Julie, just to build on that, you have a New York City right now where there are being -- people who are being set on fire in the subway system. There's a real sense the city is going out of control and that local prosecutors haven't done their part on that front, but that many of them sought what many Americans see as political vendettas. That's something that has been very innervating and demotivating and demoralizing for a lot of Democrats right now. And we'll see where it goes from here.

HERNDON: There's so many what ifs, right? What if it was the January 6th case that went first? Would those legal problems have had a bigger type of political effect? But when we think back to early 2023, the reason Democrats thought that President Biden was OK, right? The reason that get out of jail free card they had for themselves was they thought that Trump's legal problems were going to mean he was inherently invalid as a presidential candidate. That close -- this week closes the chapter on that book. Not only was that not true, it actually propelled him back to the White House.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: And what about the current (inaudible)?

STEPHANOPOULOS: That's all we have time for today. Thank you all very much. We'll be right back.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: The Biden administration is taking new steps to fight bird flu, directing hundreds of millions of dollars towards battling the virus that has spread widely in livestock and infected dozens of farm workers.

But has the government done enough to prevent a new pandemic? What more must be done to stop the spread?

I'm going to take those questions to public health expert, Dr. Ashish Jha, after this report from Mireya Villarreal.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

MIREYA VILLARREAL, ABC NEWS NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): This week, the Biden administration broadening its efforts to ward off a potential bird flu outbreak in people. The Department of Health and Human Services allocating an additional $306 million. That money meant to help state and local preparedness programs enhance monitoring of the virus and fund additional research.

The move comes amid concerns that the virus could potentially mutate and begin spreading between people. Health officials say they have no evidence of that so far, but some experts cautioning that would be a potential catalyst for another pandemic.

But the CDC says the current public health risk is low and that the greatest risk is to animals. The agency has confirmed approximately 66 cases in humans in the last year with most causing mild illnesses. Some health experts cautioned that number may be an undercount.

DR. DEBORAH BIRX, FORMER TRUMP WHITE HOUSE COVID-19 RESPONSE COORDINATOR: They're monitoring more than 10,000 exposures, but they've only tested 530. What does that mean? That means we're not testing enough and we know from other viruses that a lot of the spread can be asymptomatic.

VILLARREAL: In December an unidentified 65-year-old Louisiana resident with underlying medical problems became the first severe case in the U.S.

REBECCA CHRISTOFFERSON, LOUISIANA STATE UNIVERSITY OF VETERINARY MEDICINE: There are spillover risks, and that's what we're seeing right now which is when a virus comes from an animal population into the human population.

VILLARREAL: The patient had been in contact with sick and dead birds in a backyard flock. The CDC analyzing the virus within the patient finding a concerning new mutation that hints at a better ability to infect people. But officials say the risk to the general public remains unchanged.

So far there has been no evidence that the virus is spreading from person to person, but the bird flu virus is widespread among livestock. All 50 states have outbreaks in poultry, and 16 states have outbreaks in cattle.

For THIS WEEK, Mireya Villarreal, ABC News.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

STEPHANOPOULOS: And I'm joined now by Dr. Ashish Jha, the dean of the Brown University School of Public Health, also former COVID response coordinator in the Biden White House.

Welcome back. Good to see you again, Dr. Jha. So where did -- what's your take on where things stand with the bird flu right now?

DR. ASHISH JHA, DEAN, BROWN UNIVERSITY SCHOOL OF PUBLIC HEALTH: Yes. So first and foremost, I think what's important for Americans to understand is that this is not COVID. When COVID arrived on our shores about five years ago, we didn't know anything about the virus. We didn't know how it spread. We didn't have any treatments, vaccines, tests.

That's very different. This is a type of influenza. We do have testing capabilities for it. We have treatments and we have some vaccines. We need more. So we start off in a different place. This is a virus we have been tracking for years, if not decades.

My view is we are seeing the virus evolve. Now we're seeing some people get very seriously ill. It is now time for new actions. I was pleased to see the Biden administration doing more. I think we need to continue that effort. We need to do even more in the upcoming weeks and months, but if we do those things, treatments, vaccines, testing, I think we can keep our arms around this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What have we learned from the cases that have been detected so far?

JHA: Well, so a majority of them have been mild, but they have been in farm workers and dairy farm workers who have gotten exposed directly. But the last couple of cases, the Louisiana case that was mentioned. There is a teenager in British Columbia who got very, very seriously ill. He had no underlying medical conditions.

What we're learning is that the virus is continuing to evolve and what we're learning is that the virus can cause really serious illness. And so, that's what we have to prepare for.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And the dangers, of course, it just takes one mutation to create the possibility of human-to-human transmission.

JHA: That is the thing that we're all going to pay very close attention to. We haven't seen it yet, but just because we haven't seen it yet doesn't mean it can't happen. And we have to assume that it might very well happen somewhere down the road and we have to prepare for it. We have to act with that as a potential possibility.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, the top priority right now is doing a lot more testing?

JHA: Doing a lot more testing, I think that's number one. Number two in my mind is making sure -- right now, we have between five and 10 million vaccine doses in the country in the national stockpile. Obviously not going to be enough, not going to be enough just to cover healthcare workers and dairy workers, but we need a lot more of that. So we need new investments in a new generation of vaccines, so that if it gets to human-to-human transmission, if it starts causing more serious illness, we are ready and we can protect people.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How about treatment?

JHA: We have -- there are two treatments that we think work for this. We have a stockpile of one of them. I think we should be making investments in making sure that we have plenty of both.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And finally, before you leave, I want to ask you on another subject. We saw the Surgeon General's warning on alcohol and cancer --

JHA: Yeah.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- come out at the end of the week, calling for warning labels. What do you make of that?

JHA: Well, look, I think the reason, and I haven't spoken directly to Dr. Murthy, but I think the reason he put that out is most Americans are not aware of the link between alcohol and cancer. So I think just raising awareness is very, very important. The question I'm getting asked is, what does this mean practically? What should I do? Is it safe for me to have a beer at a ballgame? I think the answer is yes.

Is it reasonable to have a glass of wine with dinner? The answer is yes. Now, if you are a very high-risk person, somebody who has a very strong family history of cancer, somebody who's a smoker, alcohol can increase your risk further. You may want to think twice about drinking a lot of alcohol. But the key issue is alcohol in moderation is still, I think, relatively safe, maybe has a small impact on cancer risk. The big issue is people who drink heavily, they're really at substantial risk of cancer.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Dr. Jha, thanks as always for your insight.

JHA: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll be right back.

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STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "World News Tonight" and I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.

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