'This Week' Transcript: Donald Trump, Vice President Joe Biden, and Ret. Gen. John Allen

Rush transcript for "This Week" on July 31, 2016.

ByABC News
July 31, 2016, 9:01 AM

— -- THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' ON July 31, 2016 and it will be updated.





UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Clinton's moment to shine, the party embracing this historic first and unleashing on the opponent.


BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: "The Donald" is not really a plans guy.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You have sacrificed nothing.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: In his first interview since the Democratic Convention, Trump on the attack.


DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL NOMINEE: She lies a lot. She has bad judgment. She created ISIS with her stupidity.


UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Our exclusive one-on-one with Donald Trump.

And a vice presidential exclusive -- Joe Biden on the historic election and what's next.

Plus, the final countdown -- 100 days, 50 states and two nominees.

Can Trump's message reach new voters?

And can Clinton convince her toughest critics?

From ABC News, it's THIS WEEK. Here now, chief anchor George Stephanopoulos.


As you may have seen from your morning papers, our exclusive interview with Donald Trump is already generating headlines and controversy all over the world, especially Mr. Trump's first response to the Khan family, Gold Star parents of fallen soldier Humayun Khan.

Watch the whole exchange. Form your own judgments.

I met up with Mr. Trump Friday afternoon in Colorado Springs and he began the interview exuberant from his Thursday night ratings win over Hillary Clinton.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about the Democratic Convention.

So you won the ratings war in the last night. Hillary Clinton's speech...

TRUMP: By millions, George. By millions.

STEPHANOPOULOS: A couple million, it's true.

TRUMP: Three.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Hillary Clinton's speech -- 22 direct mentions of your name, 78 references, very tough, including this one hit on your temperament.


CLINTON: A man you can bait with a Tweet is not a man we can trust with nuclear weapons.


STEPHANOPOULOS: She quoted Jackie Kennedy suggesting you're a little man moved by fear and pride.

TRUMP: She's a very dishonest person. I have one of the great temperaments. I have a winning temperament. She has a bad temperament. She's weak. We need a strong temperament and that's all it is, I have a strong temperament. And...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But there are...

TRUMP: -- I do know how to win.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- polls do show some concern about this, that -- whether you can be trusted with the nuclear codes.

TRUMP: Well, I think that's probably because Hillary, that's all they talk about is temperament. I think I have a great temperament. I beat 16 very talented people in -- and I've never done this before. You don't do that with a bad temperament.

I'm leading her in the polls, as you probably have noticed. And I think I have a great temperament.

I have a temperament where I know how to win. She doesn't know how to win. She's not a winner. She doesn't know how to win.

Honestly, she lies a lot and she really -- she should tell the truth. I honestly believe if she told the truth -- because she made some reference to my campaigning, I've had a beautiful -- I've had a -- had a flawless campaign. You'll be writing books about this campaign. And yet she's criticizing my campaign.

Now, her campaign, she couldn't beat Bernie, OK?

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, she did beat him.

TRUMP: Well, barely. And there's questions even about that. But barely. And if you look at what's going on in terms of unity, the Bernie people are angry. They're angry. He was angry.

What was amazing to me is when she was talking about Bernie last night, the camera was on him and he was angry. It almost looks like he has buyer's remorse, like he shouldn't have made the deal.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about Russia. You made a lot of headlines with Russia this week.

What exactly is your relationship with Vladimir Putin?

TRUMP: I have no relationship to -- with him. I have no relationship with him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you have no relationship with Putin, then why did you say in 2013, I do have a relationship. In 2014, I spoke...

TRUMP: Because he has said nice things about me over the years. I remember years ago, he said something -- many years ago, he said something very nice about me. I said something good about him when Larry King was on. This was a long time ago. And I said he is a tough cookie or something to that effect.

He said something nice about me. This has been going on. We did "60 Minutes" together. By the way, not together-together, meaning he was probably shot in Moscow...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he was in Moscow...

TRUMP: -- and I was shot in New York.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you were in New York. But that's the thing.

TRUMP: No, just so you understand, he said very nice things about me, but I have no relationship with him. I don't -- I've never met him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yet you said for three years, '13, '14 and '15, that you did have a relationship with him.

TRUMP: No, look, what -- what do you call a relationship?

I mean he treats me...

STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm asking you.

TRUMP: -- with great respect. I have no relationship with Putin. I don't think I've ever met him. I never met him. I don't think I've ever met him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You would know if you did.

TRUMP: I think so.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I mean if he...

TRUMP: Yes, I think so. So I've -- I don't think I've ever met him. I mean if he's in the same room or something. But I don't think so.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You never spoke to him on the phone?

TRUMP: I've been in Moscow. I didn't meet him in Moscow.


STEPHANOPOULOS: You've never spoken to him on the phone?

TRUMP: I have never spoken to him on the phone, no. I've speak -- I've spoken -- when we had the Miss Universe contest a number of years ago, we had Miss Universe in Moscow, in the Moscow area, he was invited. He wanted to come. He wasn't able to come.

That would have been a time when I would have met him.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But a -- I just want to clear this up, because you did say on three different occasions you had a relationship with him. Now you say there is not.

TRUMP: Well, I don't know what it means by having a relationship. I mean he was saying very good things about me, but I don't have a relationship with him. I didn't meet him. I haven't spent time with him. I didn't have dinner with him. I didn't go hiking with him. I don't know -- and I wouldn't know him from Adam except I see his picture and I would know what he looks like.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Vice President Biden told me this week that Vladimir Putin wants to beat Hillary and Madeleine Albright said that your victory would be a gift to Putin.

And what they're pointing to is things like your statements about conditioning our commitments to NATO allies, softening the GOP platform on Ukraine, even considering softening sanctions and recognizing Russian annexation of Crimea. They fear that that's going to hurt America and advance Russia's interests.

TRUMP: They only fear one thing, losing the election. If our country got along with Russia, that would be a great thing. When Putin goes out and tells everybody -- and you talk about a relationship, but he says Donald Trump is going to win and Donald Trump is a genius, and then I have people saying you should disavow. I said, I'm going to disavow that?

But when Putin says good things and when we have a possibility of having a good relationship with Russia...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But if we have a good relationship...

TRUMP: -- I think...


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- his annexation of Crimea.

TRUMP: I'm not going to be mean to anybody. George, you know me pretty well. I don't bow, OK. I don't bow.

But if we can have a good relationship with Russia and if Russia would help us get rid of ISIS, frankly, as far as I'm concerned, you're talking about tremendous amounts of money and lives and everything else, that would be a positive thing, not a negative thing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even if that means conditioning our commitments to NATO, as you said?

TRUMP: No, because you're not going to do that. NATO is going to be just fine. But NATO countries -- we have 28 countries -- many of them are taking advantage of us because they're not paying. So we're protecting these countries and they're not paying.

And when people leave that last part in, everybody agrees with me.

I'm all in favor of NATO. I said NATO is obsolete. I was asked a question by one of your competitors and I said NATO is obsolete, because it's not taking care of terror. You understand that. And it turned out I was right. A lot of people gave me credit for that.

Then, three months ago, on the front page of "The Wall Street Journal," they said NATO to develop a terror division. And somebody who's supposed to be very extraordinary was put in charge of it.

That was all because of me. So I was right about that.

I was also right about the fact that NATO, we're being taken advantage of by NATO countries, totally advantage of (INAUDIBLE)...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Then why did you soften the GOP platform on Ukraine?

TRUMP: I wasn't involved in that. Honestly, I was not involved.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Your people were.

TRUMP: Yes. I was not involved in that. I'd like to -- I'd have to take a look at it. But I was not involved in that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you know what they did?

TRUMP: They softened it, I heard, but I was not involved.

STEPHANOPOULOS: They took away the part of the platform calling for the provision of lethal weapons to Ukraine to defend themselves.

Why is that a good idea?

TRUMP: Well, look, you know, I have my own ideas. He's not going into Ukraine, OK?

Just so you understand. He's not going to go into Ukraine, all right?

You can mark it down and you can put it down, you can take it anywhere you want.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, he's already there, isn't he?

TRUMP: OK, well, he's there in a certain way, but I'm not there yet. You have Obama there. And frankly, that whole part of the world is a mess under Obama, with all the strength that you're talking about and all of the power of NATO and all of this, in the meantime, he's going where -- he takes -- takes Crimea, he's sort of -- I mean...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you said you might recognize that.

TRUMP: I'm going to take a look at it. But, you know, the people of Crimea, from what I've heard, would rather be with Russia than where they were. And you have to look at that, also.

Now, that was under -- just so you understand, that was done under Obama's administration. And as far as the Ukraine is concerned, it's a mess. And that's under the Obama's administration, with his strong ties to NATO.

So with all of these strong ties to NATO, Ukraine is a mess. Crimea has been taken. Don't blame Donald Trump for that.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said that...

TRUMP: And we'll do better and yet we'll have a better relationship with Russia.

And having a good relationship -- maybe. and having a good relationship with Russia is a good thing, not a bad thing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You said you have no investments in Russia.

But do you owe any money to Russian individuals and institutions?

TRUMP: No. Not.


TRUMP: The primary thing I did what Russia -- I bought a house in Palm Beach at a bankruptcy. It was a bankrupt, you know, person. I bought it from the banks. I bought it for about $40 million. I sold it for $100 million to a Russian.

That was probably five years ago. And that was primarily it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You partner now with...

TRUMP: Now, well I sell...


TRUMP: Will I sell -- many years ago. I don't think they're Russian. I think there were other people, but there were various partners.

Will I sell condos to Russians on occasion?


I mean I do that. I have a lot of condos. I do that. But I have no relationship to Russia whatsoever.


TRUMP: No debts. I have very little debt to anybody. I don't need debt. You know, it's very interesting, I'm so liquid, I don't need debt. And if I need debt, if I want debt, I can get it from banks in New York City very easily.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You know where I'm going to take this next. Americans could be assured on that if they saw your tax returns.

TRUMP: My tax returns are very simple. They're under a minor audit, a routine audit, as they have been for many years. Every year I get audited.

Now, I don't know if you get audited but I have friends...

STEPHANOPOULOS: I've been audited.

TRUMP: -- who are very wealthy that never have been audited. I say -- you get audited. I get audited every year. I'm under a routine audited like routine. And I've been for years, every year.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Is there something...


TRUMP: George, it is very simple. Yes, but they're all linked. It's called the link.

It's very simple, if my audit is finished, that's great.

Now, I have to tell you. I watched Mitt Romney four years ago. He waited until September to give them, just before the election. They made him look so bad, it was so unfair, I actually think he didn't lose because of the 47 percent, I think he lost because of a couple of really minor items in tax return where he did nothing wrong. So it is unfair.

But I will say, when I'm finished with the audit, I'll do it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Richard Nixon released his even though his were under audit.

TRUMP: I don't use Richard Nixon as necessarily the guide, OK. I mean, you know, it's an interesting person to use, but don't use it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mike Bloomberg very tough on you a the Democratic convention.


BLOOMBERG: Trump says he wants to run the nation like he's running his business? God help us.


STEPHANOPOULOS; Called you a con man, reckless. Even seemed...

TRUMP: He doesn't know me well.

Michael Bloomberg, when he had a problem in Ferry Point, which is a massive job where his administration was a mess, they couldn't get it built. They called me. I took it over. I got it done in a year.

Michael Bloomberg couldn't get elected as a dogcatcher in New York.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In the past you said he was a great mayor.

TRUMP: Sure, he was good. But his last term was terrible. He did a terrible thing his last term. And frankly a lot of people didn't like him. He spent a fortune to get elected. Shouldn't have gone to a third term. The snow removal was a disaster. He had a problems. Michael Bloomberg had a big problem with Ferry Point in the Bronx. They called me. I made a deal. I took it over. I got it built. I got it open. It's open today. It's very successful.

And think, personally, I think he made a deal with Hillary where he gets a job, because he'd like to -- because Michael Bloomberg has wanted to run for president for probably as long as you have known him and guess what? He never had the guts to do it. And now I see this guy up on stage saying negative things. He knows nothing about me. He's never been to my office. I don't know him well.

STEPHANOPOULOS; You played golf together.

TRUMP: Maybe once.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Here's what he hit you on in the speech....

TRUMP: And I hit the ball a lot longer, and a lot better.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He hit you for hypocrisy in the speech. For selling products overseas, gaming the visa system to hire foreign works at low wages. And just this week BuzzFeed reported that Mar-a-Lago is putting out application for 78 more visas for foreign workers even though...

TRUMP: Should I tell you about it? Mara-a-Lago is a very successful club in Palm Beach, Florida, the Mar-a-Lago club, and during the season, it's very, very hard to get employees.

STEPHANOPOULOS: The local employment agencies say they have more than 1,000 people...

TRUMP: We interview -- and we have a lot of people. We come with a lot of people. But it's very, very hard to get people in Palm Beach during the Palm Beach season. It's called the Palm Beach social season. And what we do is we sometimes we have to bring people in.

As far as product, our country doesn't make product anymore. You have other countries devalue their currencies. They make it impossible. You look at suits and ties and shirts. You look at steel, you look at so many different things, it's...

STEPHANOPOULOS: But our country does make those products, but you don't.

TRUMP: Very small. 3 percent of our product is made in apparel. And much of the material comes from overseas.

It's very -- if you want to get a television today -- I buy thousands of television sets. If I want a television, I would love the buy American-made televisions like they used to have where they had GE and Sylvania and all of the different. Today, it's Samsung, it's LG, it's Sony. We don't make televisions anymore.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you're out there saying other American companies must come and create jobs here, but you're not willing to do it yourself.

TRUMP: This is nothing new what you're saying. I talk about this during my speech. When I do ties, I bid them out. And I go all over the place. You have companies over in different countries where they devalue their currency and they make it impossible for American companies to compete.

The hat, Make America Great Again. I fought like crazy to find a company in this country that could make the hats. And I found one. And they're American-made, but it's -- because I knew the first thing people would do is, where is the hat made. OK, Make America Great.

But it is very, very hard for our companies to compete, because other company -- other countries -- and it's really the countries, other countries take advantage of us.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Here are numbers of hiring of foreign workers. Since 2010, 300 U.S. applicants in Mar-a-Lago, 17 hired, more than 500 visa applications.

TRUMP: Well, you know what? I don't hire the people. But if you look at all the other places in Palm Beach, they're all doing exactly the same thing. And you know why they're doing that? You know why they're doing that? Because you can't get people, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you think a voter thinks when they hear you say I can't find American workers. I can't find American workers.

TRUMP: I think the voter understand it, because they understand that -- you know, you're not reinventing the wheel here with these questions. These get asked all the time. I've been asked about Mar-a-Lago. I have many other places where I don't have to do that, because you have a normal season.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about debates. You can accept the recommendations of the debate commission? Three debates, one VP debate?

TRUMP: Well, I tell you what I don't like, it's against two NFL games. I got a letter from the NFL saying this is ridiculous, why are the debates against -- because the NFL doesn't want to go against the debates because the debates are going to be pretty massive, from what I understand.

And I don't think we should be against the NFL. I don't know how the dates were picked. I don't know why those particular dates.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you don't like the dates that are out there.

TRUMP: Well, I don't like dates against -- you know, Hillary Clinton wants to be against the NFL. She doesn't maybe like she did with Bernie Sanders where they were on Saturday nights when nobody's home.

But they're against the NFL. I saw the dates. Two -- I think two of the three are against theNFL, so I'm not thrilled with that. But I like three debates. I think that's fine. I think it's enough. Somebody said one debate, I would rather have three. I think they will be very interesting.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't know if you saw the speech, but there's man named Khizr Khan, speaking at the Democratic convention last night. His son, Captain Humayun Khan, was killed serving in Iraq, and he had some very tough questions for you.


KHIZR KHAN, CAPT. HUMAYUN KHAN'S FATHER: Have you read the United States constitution? I will gladly lend you my copy. You have sacrificed nothing and no one.


STEPHANOPOULOS: He said you wouldn't have let his son in America.

TRUMP: He doesn't know -- he doesn't know that.

I saw him. He was, you know, very emotional. And probably looked like -- a nice guy to me. His wife, if you look at his wife, she was standing there. She had nothing to say. She probably -- maybe she wasn't allowed to have anything to say. You tell me, but plenty of people have written that.

She was extremely quiet and looked like she had nothing to say. A lot of people have said that.

And personally, I watched him. I wish him the best of luck, George.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What would you say to the father?

TRUMP: Well, I would say, we have had a lot of problems with radical Islamic terrorism, that's what I'd say. We have had a lot of problems where you look at San Bernardino, you look at Orlando, you look at the World Trade Center, you look at so many different things. You look at what happened to the priest over the weekend in Paris, where his throat was cut, 85-year-old, beloved Catholic priest. You look at what happened in Nice, France, a couple of weeks ago.

I would say, you gotta take a look that, because something is going on, and it's not good.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He said you have sacrificed nothing and no one.

TRUMP: Well, that sounds -- who wrote that? Did Hillary's script writer write it? Because everybody that went out there -- we also had John Allen, who failed with ISIS. I mean, he was a general -- General Allen -- he went out, and he's ranting and raving. And then I read a report. He was in there for a number of months, and he failed with ISIS. And he's telling me, you know.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You saw Hillary say it last night, you don't know more than the generals.

TRUMP: Well, I tell you, the generals aren't doing so well right now.

Now, I have a feeling it may be Obama's fault. But if you look at ISIS, General MacArthur, and General Patton, they're spinning in their graves. The generals certainly aren't doing very well right now. And General Allen, after I saw he was on ranting and raving about me, who he never met, I checked up. Guess what? They were not so happy with him. He didn't beat ISIS. He didn't beat ISIS. He didn't do well with ISIS.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How would you answer that father? What sacrifice have you made for your country?

TRUMP: I think I have made a lot of sacrifices. I've work very, very hard. I've created thousands and thousands of jobs, tens of thousands of jobs, built great structures. I've done -- I've had tremendous success.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Those are sacrifices?

TRUMP: Oh, sure. I think they're sacrifices.

I think when I can employ thousands and thousands of people, take care of their education, take care of so many things. Even in the military, I mean, I was responsible along with a group of people for getting the Vietnam Memorial built in downtown Manhattan, which to this day people thank me for.

I've raised millions of dollars for the vets. I'm helping the vets a lot. I think my popularity with the vets is through the roof, far greater than hers. She's done nothing, all she's done is tell everybody that the vets are in good shape. They're fine. And they're not fine. People are waiting in line for seven days to see a doctor.

STEPHANOPOULOS: 100 days left, what's the number one thing you have to do?

TRUMP: I think that I just want to continue to campaign the way I'm doing. I'm leaving here. I'm going to a speech that's packed with thousands of people. They're making, in many cases, less money now, George, than they made 18 years ago. And they're working two jobs. They're working harder. They're older. And it's unfair.

Our country's a mess. And that's why when she makes the speech, she doesn't talk about radical Islam. She doesn't talk about the problems that we have in this country and throughout the world. Many of the problems, she caused. I mean, she created ISIS with her stupidity and her lack of knowledge with her bad judgment.

You know, Bernie Sanders said something about Hillary Clinton that was very interesting. He said she had bad judgment, great words, bad judgment. You know what, she has bad judgment.

She has no instinct.

STEPHANOPUOLOS: Final question. Are you worried that the Democratic convention is going to bounce her ahead of you in the polls?

TRUMP: I don't know. I mean, look, I had a very big bounce. In fact, I think you even said it was one of the biggest bounces in 20 years. It's been a long time since somebody had a bounce like that.

Look, I think the Republican convention was great or I wouldn't have had the bounce that I had. As you said, I had 3 million people more than she had on the final night. She had a Thursday, I had a Thursday, she had a speech, I had a speech, I had 3 million people more than she did. And I had a lot of people. There were a lot of people. I think I had 30 million. They had 27 million. I think we're going to do very well in this election.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Trump, thanks for your time.

TRUMP: Thank you very much.


STEPHANOPOULOS: As we said, that was on Friday. And overnight, the Trump campaign put out a statement responding to the controversy. Here's the statement.

"Captain Humayun Khan was a hero to our country and we should honor all who have made the ultimate sacrifice to keep our country safe. While I feel deeply for the loss of his son, Mr. Khan, who has never met me, has no right to stand in front of millions of people and claim I have never read the Constitution, which is false, and say many other inaccurate things."

Mr. Trump also put out a tweet this morning. He said that, "Captain Khan, killed 12 years ago, was a hero. But this is about radical Islamic terror and the weakness of our leaders to eradicate it."

And one other note: the NFL has disputed a claim Mr. Trump made in the interview that the NFL wrote him a letter complaining about the presidential debate schedule.

An NFL representative told us that was not true. And the Trump team responded to that overnight, saying that Trump was made aware of conflicting dates by a source close to the league.

When we come back, the Khan family responds to Mr. Trump. And the four-star general Trump called a failure is here -- live.


STEPHANOPOULOS: We showed you Donald Trump's comments on the Gold Star family. And last night, ABC's Mary Bruce spoke with Khizr and Ghazala Khan for their response.


GHAZALA KHAN, CAPT. HUMAYUN KHAN'S MOTHER: When I was standing there, all America felt my pain without saying a single word. Every person with a heart, with a kind heart, felt it.

Please, Mr. Trump, feel that pain and you will be better as understanding me. Please, I am -- I am very, I mean, upset when I heard that. I didn't say anything because I was in the pain.

If you are in the pain, you don't -- you fight or you don't say anything. I am not a fighter. I can't fight. So that best thing I did was quiet.

KHAN: Running for president is not an entitlement to disrespect Gold Star family and Gold Star mother, not realizing her pain.

Shame on him!


STEPHANOPOULOS: And when we come back, Mr. Trump also had harsh word for the Marine Corps general, who led U.S. forces in Afghanistan, coordinated the global coalition against ISIS. Retired General John Allen joins us with his response -- next.



GEN. JOHN ALLEN (RET.), U.S. MARINES: With her as our commander in chief, our international relations will not be reduced to a business transaction. I also know that our armed forces will not become an instrument of torture and they will not be engaged in murder or carry out other illegal activities.


STEPHANOPOULOS: That was retired Marine Corps General John Allen at the Democratic convention. He served as commander of U.S. forces in Afghanistan, presidential envoy in the battle against ISIS. As you can see, he's endorsed Hillary Clinton. He joins us now.

General Allen, thank you for joining us this morning. You heard Mr. Trump there called you "a failed general." The war in ISIS got worse under your leadership.

Your response?

ALLEN: Well, George, he has no credibility to criticize me or my record or anything that I have done. If he had spent a minute in the deserts of Afghanistan or in the deserts of Iraq, I might listen to what he has to say.

He's got no credibility. In that regard, there has been progress with respect to the war against ISIS. We knew it was going to be a tough fight. But I don't have to justify myself to him.

What we do have to do, George, is listen to what he's been saying about our military. He's called it a disaster. He says our military can't win anymore. That's a direct insult to every single man and woman who's wearing the uniform today.

He's talked about needing to torture. He's talked about needing to murder the families of alleged terrorists. He's talked about carpet-bombing ISIL.

Who do you think is going to carpet-bombed when all that occurs?

It's going to be innocent families.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me stop you right there.

If indeed Mr. Trump did become president, how would the military respond to those kinds of orders, if indeed he followed through on some of the things he has said in this campaign?

ALLEN: That's a great question, George. And I think we would be facing a civil military crisis, the like of which we've not seen in this country before.

You know, from the moment that those of us who are commissioned -- and of course all of our enlisted troops as well -- assume the mantle of our responsibility in uniform, when we swear an oath to support and defend the Constitution, which is a document and a set of principles and it supports the rule of law, one of those is to ensure that we do not obey illegal orders.

It's an inherent responsibility in who we are. And so what we need to do is ensure that we don't create an environment that puts us on a track conceivably where the United States military finds itself in a civil military crisis with a commander in chief who would have us do illegal things.

And my hope would be that the conversation would occur quietly in the Oval Office or somewhere else to advise him not to continue along this track.

But, George, that's a major issue that we're facing here, the potential for a civil military crisis where the military could be ordered to conduct illegal activities.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You also heard Mr. Trump say that if he were president, our relation with Russia would be better and that would help us in the fight against ISIS.

ALLEN: Well, the Russians haven't helped us at all in the fight against ISIS. When you total up the numbers of sorties that have been going into Syria, aircraft attacks, if you will, going into Syria, when the Russians said they were going to assist, we got a very small number of Russian sorties.

And frankly they not dropping precision munitions the way we do. They drop dumb bombs. They cluster munitions, which have created huge numbers of civilian casualties.

And so when we talk about carpet bombing ISIL, that's what it looks like, creating huge numbers of civilian casualties, which increases the numbers of refugees flowing out of the region, which increases the misery of the Syrian people.

Russians haven't helped us.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I guess even Mr. Trump wouldn't disagree with that. What he is saying is that they would because if he were president, because we would have a better relationship with Russia.

ALLEN: Well, we'll see. The Russians self-interests are paramount. And we'll see whether those relations would improve under a Trump presidency.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And I was wondering what was your reaction was when you were speaking at that convention? We just showed a bite of you at the convention speaking. You had some cheers, there were also a lot of boos from that crowd, from many in the crowd saying no more war, no more war.

Does it trouble you at all that it appears that the Democratic Party is very divided over these issues?

ALLEN: George, I didn't detect that there was division at all. In fact, the sense I came away from the floor of that convention was -- I mean, I couldn't believe what I was seeing. This acclimation, this incredible public acclimation of support for the United States, and support for our military, and support for our veterans, and support for international engagement, in support for using our military in the proper and ways ordained by the constitution.

And when I looked out across the sea of faces in the convention, I couldn't have been more proud to be an American than I was right then, because that acclimation was enormous.

And frankly I didn't hear the "no more war." I'm sure they said it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: They were out there.

ALLEN: Yeah, they were. And I'm sure they said it. But what I heard was USA, USA, USA. And I have to tell you, I don't want any more war either, George, none of us wants any more war. But we need to have a commander-in-chief who knows what she is doing. We need to have a commander-in-chief that really can lead from the front on these issues, knows how to employ U.S. military and U.S. force, and all the measures of U.S. power, knows how to employ those properly.

That's the challenge here. And that's what I think Hillary Clinton can bring to this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You have seen this exchange between Mr. Trump and the Khan family. How did it hit you?

ALLEN: I couldn't believe it. I simply couldn't believe it.

And it was the intersection of, I think, a lot of the worst tendencies. You know with this digression to determine why she hadn't spoken? Look, it's not possible to put into words the sense of loss and grief that comes to a family that loses one of their children. This family is an immigrant family, a Muslim family that's come to the United States with hopes for the future, to be part of the American dream, and they had a son, a handsome young man who chose to join the finest army in the history of the world., the United States army. And at his moment of truth, he went forward, alone, leaving his troops back to inspect a potential vehicle. It was a suicide vehicle. He was killed. That act of nobility is an incredible act.

And for all of Americans to understand what that act of nobility was. And to then understand the sense of grief the families have as a result of that is really important, George.

And she didn't speak, because she was grieving. She was weeping as she left the stage. I saw them before and I saw them afterwards.

But the other piece of this that's important is that the family is angry over comments about Islam. The family is angry about comments about Muslims. The vilification of Muslims.

And yes, there are problems in the world today. But that kind of language exacerbates the problem, that kind of language radicalizes people. That kind of language puts our troops in danger overseas. And our first responders and our police here at home, it puts them in danger as well.

So, we need to understand what we're saying matters. These words matter. And that family was humiliated by those comments. And that was unfair and a shameful thing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, sir, as you know, there are many critics of you and other former generals speaking out at political conventions, including the former chairman of the joint chiefs of staff Martin Dempsey writing in The Washington Post. He said as generals -- he was speaking of General Flynn, as well who spoke at the Republican convention -- as generals, they have an obligation to uphold our apolitical traditions. They have just made the task of their successors who continue to serve in uniform and are accountable for our security, more complicated. It was a mistake for them to participate as they did. It was a mistake for our presidential candidates to ask them to do so.

Your response?

ALLEN: Marty Dempsey is one of the greatest soldiers I have ever known and a dear friend. And I understand completely what he is saying.

But I've agonized over this decision over and over again, George. When I listen to this rhetoric, when I worry about the future. When I worry about how this military might be employed. When I hear the denigration of our military -- it was not an easy decision for me to come off the bench and make the comments. And I don't intend to remain active in this effort. I wanted to make sure it was very clear that I supported this particular candidate, Hillary Clinton, to be the president and the commander-in-chief and I decried these comments that put us on a potential track for a civil military crisis the like of which we have never seen in this country, that was the reason I came off the bench. I don't intend to stay out there to be politically active. I intend to return to my previous activities.

STEPHANOPOULOS: General Allen, thanks for joining us this morning.

ALLEN: Thank you, George, always good to see you.

STEPHANOPUOLOS: And we will be right back with the roundtable and Vice President Biden.


STEPHANOPOULSO: And during my interview with General Allen, Donald Trump has responded again to this controversy. This tweet coming out at 9:32, saying I was visually attacked by Mr. Khan at the Democratic convention, am I not allowed to respond? Hillary voted for the Iraq War, not me.

Roundtable is next.



CLINTON: Donald Trump is not a normal presidential candidate.


CLINTON: Somebody who attacks everybody has something missing.


CLINTON: I don't know what it is. I'm not going to get into that.


STEPHANOPOULOS: That was Hillary Clinton just before midnight last night in Youngstown, Ohio on that bus trip.

Let's talk about all this now with our roundtable.

I'm joined by our chief White House correspondent, Jon Karl; Republican strategist Kristen Soltis Anderson, also with "The Washington Examiner"; Cenk Uygur, host of "Young Turks" on the TYT network, Fox News anchor, Greta van Susteren, and Alex Wagner, senior editor of "The Atlantic."

And Jon, of course, we have to begin with this whole exchange between Trump and the khans. Khizr Khan has spoken out again this morning and now he's speaking -- he's taking this broader. He's asked Senator McConnell and Paul Ryan, Speaker Ryan, to take a moral stand against Trump,

JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Yes, and we have not heard yet from McConnell or from Ryan directly in response to this. But I think this puts them in a very difficult position.

I don't think that this is necessarily going to sway any voters. Trump said in January, I could shoot somebody on Fifth Avenue, it wouldn't matter.

But this really does put Republican leaders in a tough spot. And they have been silent on this (INAUDIBLE).

STEPHANOPOULOS: And Greta, we have seen this many, many times. You know, this was just about a year ago today, he made the comments about John McCain as a POW. It didn't seem to hurt him at all during the primaries. He's had the whole controversy over Judge Curiel that keeps on rolling.

Will this matter?

GRETA VAN SUSTEREN, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: I don't think so. I think people have made their minds up about Donald Trump and Hillary Clinton. They love them and hate them -- love them or hate them. And I think that small sliver of people who are undecided or who are going to be swayed either way and will make their decision when they see the presidential debates -- I mean they're not watching football, of course, according to Donald Trump.

But I -- you know, I think that this is -- I think he has Teflon and I think she has Teflon, too.


ALEX WAGNER, SENIOR EDITOR, "THE ATLANTIC": I don't know. I think if you're Mike Pence, this is absolutely the last thing you want to have to deal with on Monday when you're on the campaign trail. Mike Pence has a son in the Marines.

You know, effectively, I think Republicans are being asked to choose between the parents of -- of the war dead and -- and Donald Trump. That's a tough position to be in.

KRISTEN SOLTIS ANDERSON, "THE WASHINGTON EXAMINER": I think if you look at the polls, about a third of Americans say that they don't think either Donald Trump or Hillary Clinton has the character and judgment to be president. And so the conventions over the last two weeks have been speaking to those folks, saying, you may not like me, but I'll keep you safe.

Hillary Clinton, in that clip you showed at the beginning, she said Donald Trump's not a normal presidential candidate. He is banking on the idea that people like that, that they will think he's not normal and that's good.

And so what this really comes down to, in this interview, you know, the things he said about Russia that were -- that were just wrong, the things he said about this family that were just offensive, there are a lot of voters that will just say, but Hillary.

And that's why I'm uncertain if this is actually going to move polls.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald the disrupter.

CENK UYGUR, HOST, "YOUNG TURKS": Yes. Well, he is a disrupter, that's why he's winning. But certainly, well, on the Republican side.

But look, these comments, first of all, prove that he's a bigot without a shadow of a doubt, because he takes a fallen U.S. soldier and puts him in the same camp as radical Islamic terrorists, because he said, well, I mean what do I say to the father?

I say we've got radical Islamic terror, in other words, that's why I would have kept your family out.

But wait a minute, these guys who are -- you can't get any more patriotic than dying for the country. And he's putting them in the same camp.

He's really an unbelievably obnoxious character. And remember, he didn't go to Vietnam. He said he had a medical problem. He got a medical deferment. Now his doctor says he's the healthiest man alive.

So he's healthier at 70 than he was when he was younger?

He ran from Vietnam. Then he's got the nerve to criticize people who died for this country?

It's -- it's not regular obnoxious. This is beyond the pale.

KARL: Well, he did say Captain Khan was a hero, I mean to -- to be clear. I mean he -- he said what he said about his father, about the parents.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes. Let's talk about overall, I mean coming out of the Democratic Convention, is -- it is true that Donald Trump got a bounce out of his convention. I'm not sure it was the best in 20 years.


STEPHANOPOULOS: But he definitely did get a bounce. And it was a healthy one. You saw the Democrats with that series of speeches Monday through Thursday.

After the trouble they had on the first days, do they get a bigger bounce? KARL: They -- I think you'll see a big bounce out of the Democratic Convention. I mean they -- they had -- they had -- they had good coverage, four days. You know, Trump -- Trump had a bit of a (INAUDIBLE). I -- I think we'll see a 5 point lead for -- for Hillary coming out of this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: A 5 point lead for Hillary coming out of it.

One of the things that Donald Trump did point out is that more people tuned in to watch him on Thursday night than turned into Hillary Clinton. He still does have the power to draw eyeballs.

SOLTIS ANDERSON: He's still this unknown quantity to a lot of people in that what will he do as president?

You know, not -- his -- he's been in headlines for 30 some years, but people are always waiting to see what's the next thing that he's going to say, what's the next position he's going to take?

So certainly, he knows that sort of his worst enemy is on the saying something offensive or something wrong, but rather, being out of the headlines. He knows that that's where he's done best thus far in the polls.

STEPHANOPOULOS: One of the things you heard, though, from the Democrats all week long is where are Donald Trump's plans?

UYGUR: Yes. Well, he doesn't have any. He just -- we watched the whole RNC. The only policy position we could discern from that was coal. We're for coal digging.

I mean it's unbelievable. There's no posi -- OK, you're going to keep us safe.


No plans. I mean who runs for president and says I'll figure it out once -- once I get into office, which he said literally during one of the debates.

The guy is actually a loser.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think he has...

UYGUR: -- he really has no plans whatsoever.

VAN SUSTEREN: I think he's put way too much attention on the conventions, like "American Idol," who did better or "American Bandstand," who did the best dance?

I don't think -- I think in a week, the American people are going to say what convention?

And I think, you know, we're so steeped in it, so we think we dissect it like every little flaw and every guess is a...


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- 20 million people a night for both conventions.

VAN SUSTEREN: I know. But it's like, you know, it's like a -- away from that, do you really think people are going to be saying I made up my decision at the convention?

I think they had better music at...


VAN SUSTEREN: I just don't think...


VAN SUSTEREN: -- I think that -- I think that -- I think so many other things are going to happen between now and November...

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: That is almost for certain.


VAN SUSTEREN: And -- and -- and that's going to drive the vote more than...


WAGNER: -- this is the one who is campaigning through the looking glass, George. I mean, you know, the Democrats hit Trump for -- for having no plans, Trump also, in a statement after Hillary's speech, said she has no plans. I mean it is literally I am...


WAGNER: -- there is nothing...

VAN SUSTEREN: It's a mud wrestle. It is a mud wrestle.

WAGNER: She uses every criticism...


UYGUR: So that goes to the -- the heart of it. If this campaign is about Hillary Clinton, she loses. If this campaign is about Donald Trump, he loses.


UYGUR: They're both deeply unpopular.


VAN SUSTEREN: No, no. I think what's going to happen is when they...


UYGUR: That's why the conventions do matter...


VAN SUSTEREN: J when they stand...

UYGUR: -- because they set the tone.

VAN SUSTEREN: -- when they stand side by side on the debate stage and the American people...


VAN SUSTEREN: -- who are undecided...


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you know, let's get to...

VAN SUSTEREN: -- and then that's when the American people...





STEPHANOPOULOS: That's the question I want to ask you, Jon Karl, because I -- I talked to -- to Mr. Trump about that.

KARL: Yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He said he wants to do three debates, but has also now raised this issue about timing with the NFL. He's also right that two of the debates are scheduled up against NFL games.


STEPHANOPOULOS: This is clearly the start of some negotiation over the debates.

KARL: Absolutely. And, you know, the -- there has been a theory for some time that Trump may look for a reason not to get on that debate stage. And I think that Hillary Clinton has a reason not to see the debates happen, too, to -- to be side by side with Donald Trump on that stage not knowing what the heck he is going to say, what he is going to do -- he's going to bring up.

So there -- there's clearly a negotiation here and you...

VAN SUSTEREN: But it shouldn't be on -- it shouldn't be against the NFL. They should change that. I mean that's like -- look, why have it -- I mean that's the same thing that happened to Martin O'Malley and Bernie Sanders with the Democratic debates. I mean they should have debates when, you know, it's not competing with something the American people also really like besides politics.

WAGNER: Yes, I mean I actually think that the Clinton team has sort of steeled themselves against the -- I think they think it's very realistic to think there's not going to be more than one debate. And they're trying to sort of hedge against that at this moment.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And -- and, great, you write about the Saturday night debates. There's no question, I think, the Clinton team was very happy to have Saturday night debates. Now, this...

VAN SUSTEREN: And a speech and that whole business about Sanders saying it was rigged and the emails and everything else. So the Clinton camp doesn't want it to seem like the...


VAN SUSTEREN: -- the debates are being hidden against NFL.

STEPHANOPOULOS: At the same time, Kristen Anderson, I'm no expert on this, but I think it's tough to find a night where you're not (INAUDIBLE) that football is not being played.




SOLTIS ANDERSON: -- up against baseball.




SOLTIS ANDERSON: -- you know, this -- it -- it's always going to be up against something. And I think for a lot of voters that are really interested in tuning in, I'm less concerned about the putting it up against the -- the NFL. I think for voters who are really still trying to consider who they're going to vote for, they want to see this.

VAN SUSTEREN: Tuesdays and Wednesdays are good.


VAN SUSTEREN: In the summer.

UYGUR: So, look, Hillary Clinton wants as many debates as possible, if you ask me, because she's got to get out there and say, you know, your whole thing is about winning, actually, you're a loser. We started #loserdonald because he went bankrupt four times. You say that's a savvy business move.

You know what's a savvy business move?

Making a profit.

VAN SUSTEREN: Yes, but you know...


UYGUR: Not going bankrupt.


VAN SUSTEREN: -- the problem with the debate is, is it can bring out the best in them if, by chance, it's a debate on ideology. That would bring out the best in them. Maybe they can do that. Or it can bring out the worst in them if they both get down in the gutter and if they both take the bait from each other.


SOLTIS ANDERSON: Football, presidency, football, presidency.


SOLTIS ANDERSON: -- debate about ideology. (INAUDIBLE) this was the savviest things that the Democrats did at their convention was make the message not Donald Trump is a typical, horrible Republican but rather Donald Trump is not a Republican. Donald Trump is not a conservative, trying to bring those swing voters (INAUDIBLE) savviest thing --


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- some snapshots up on the board right now.

We've got a new device on abcnews.com, where you can go to the electoral map and make your own electoral map on where the race stands today, where you think it will be in November.

I'm not going to make anybody predict right here. But let's pretend the race is held today.

Greta, where -- what would the electoral college look like?

VAN SUSTEREN: If it were today -- and now this is -- and we're in a new time because now we have Secretary of State Hillary Clinton, she doesn't have to worry about Bernie Sanders, so she's probably going to change her strategy a lot. But right now, looking at it, I have Hillary Clinton at 280 and Donald Trump at 258.


WAGNER: I have Hillary Clinton winning every swing state with the exception, I believe, of North Carolina, which I think we can call a swing state, 332 to 206.


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- like Obama 2012.

WAGNER: Yes, that was my conservative map.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Conservative map?

OK. Jon Karl?

KARL: All right, so, George, I did the states; I didn't look at the numbers ahead of time. I got to 269-269 with Donald Trump --

STEPHANOPOULOS: Wait, how did you do that?

KARL: I think because Trump holds Florida, he loses Virginia, he takes Ohio, takes Iowa, takes New Hampshire. He gets --

STEPHANOPOULOS: And what happens to the single delegates in Nebraska and Maine?


KARL: Obama-ha.


SOLTIS ANDERSON: I started with the Obama-Romney map from 2012. And I did a little bit of flipping, based on what the polls looked like before the convention. So in this case, I handed Ohio to Donald Trump. I think in these places where it's sort of a tossup, I think he'll do better in these sort of white working-class states.

But in a place like Florida, I actually kept in Hillary Clinton's camp because I think the large Hispanic populations --

STEPHANOPOULOS: And you show that lock right there -- Florida-Pennsylvania, Hillary Clinton or Donald Trump, for that matter, wins those two, you win the race.

UYGUR: I've got Trump at 279-259.


UYGUR: I gave him Florida, Ohio --

KARL: You said he was a loser a minute ago.


UYGUR: No, listen, so in his life, he's had a great track record of failure, bankruptcies, running from Vietnam, everything like that. But he's a populist candidate when the country's angry and you run and it's the most establishment candidate we've ever seen against him.

It was a terrible idea by the Democrats to support Hillary Clinton.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're so hot against him today because you think he's going to win.

UYGUR: I'm very worried -- and if the Democrats are not really, really worried that, in this populist time Donald Trump doesn't have an excellent chance to win --


UYGUR: -- completely wrong.

VAN SUSTEREN: I agree with you. I think he can win. And the Democrats better be worried about it.

But I think today the map has Hillary winning. But I think you're right.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That is the last word today. Thank you all very much.

Up next, Vice President Biden on life after the White House.



JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Since I've never been called a man of few words, let me say it as simply as I can.

Yes, yes, I accept your nomination to run and serve with Barack Obama, the next President of the United States of America.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Joe Biden, back in 2008.

Eight years later, the vice president in Philadelphia this week for his political valedictory.


STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): There it is. And I sat down with him earlier in the week to reflect on his time in the White House and his friendship with President Obama.



STEPHANOPOULOS: You've talked a lot about your relationship with President Obama. You guys have become very good friends over the last eight years. You have also talked about being in private, hollering at each other.

How does a vice president know when to do that, when that's OK?

BIDEN: Well, you know whether you have a real relationship with the president when you know it's real. And with Barack and me it's -- with the president and me, it's real.

And, by the way, one of the things when I asked why he wanted me, he said, I know you'll never not tell me what you think is right. And I think that's what Hillary got in Tim.

Tim is not going to go in there and, you know, say, "Yes, ma'am; no, ma'am," you know. Look, if he thinks she's wrong, he's going to say I think you're wrong. Here's what I think you should do.

I like the guy. I mean, the guy's solid. And he's smart.

STEPHANOPOULOS: John Podesta was talking about what Secretary Clinton was looking for. And he said, you need someone who you're always going want that person to walk into a meeting.

BIDEN: That's exactly right.

And I've never been in a place where the president hasn't, if I've not been there, called and said, "Joe, I need you here."

Or, "Joe, can you be on this hookup on a secure line?"

I mean, I know he -- I know he values my -- now, by the way --


STEPHANOPOULOS: You don't always agree.

BIDEN: -- no, but we've never disagreed on a matter of substance. It's always been about tactic. Where we disagreed, it's been tactical disagreement.

Should we do this in order the promote this goal?

We both agree, this is the objective.

Well, tactically, I think we should do this; he thinks we should do it another way. He's president.

You know, I -- Tim said, well, what's it like being vice president?

I said, remember, you got a V in front or your name.


BIDEN: Vice president.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And never forget it.


STEPHANOPOULOS: You won your first election back in 1970.

BIDEN: That's right.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Newcastle County council.

BIDEN: '70, yes, Newcastle County council.

STEPHANOPOULOS: In about six months, you'll walk out of the White House, walk out of public office for the first time in 46 years.

BIDEN: I have to be gainfully employed.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Hard to say goodbye?

BIDEN: I don't plan on saying goodbye. You know, my dad used to have an expression. He said, a lucky person gets up in the morning, puts both feet on the floor, knows what they're about to do and thinks it still matters.

I still care deeply about so many thing. And so I'm going to be engaged. I'm going to be out there as -- with a platform to talk about the things that I care about: foreign policy and, you know, violence against women, you know, the inequity in the tax structure.

And I think I'll still have, at least for some time, particularly on cancer convening capability to bring together folks to -- but look, this is what I've done my whole life. And I can't imagine -- someone said, well, to me, well, you know, you ought to just retire.

And I would say, well, you know, I always judge people who spend a lot of time in public office say they care about things, if the day after they leave, they no longer talk about them, then I don't think they cared much about them.

I care deeply about these things and there's many opportunities.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Maybe run for something again?

BIDEN: Well, I don't plan on that, George. But, you know, I've learned a long time ago, you don't say anything for absolutely certain.

I still -- you know, there's that old Satchel Paige phrase, you know, they asked Satchel Paige, he won a game on his 47th birthday as a pitcher.

And they said, "Satch, what's it like, 47, winning the big -- "

He said, "Boys, that's not how I look at age."

They said, "How do you look at it?"

He said, "I look at it this way.

"How old would you be if you didn't know how old you are?"


BIDEN: "Forty-four."

So I'm ready to go.


Mr. Vice President, thank you.

BIDEN: Thanks. Thank you very much.


STEPHANOPOULOS: And we'll be right back after this from our ABC stations.


STEPHANOPOULOS: And that is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT." And I'll see you tomorrow on "GMA."