— -- THIS IS A RUSH TRANSCRIPT FOR 'THIS WEEK' ON May 8, 2016 and it will be updated.
ANNOUNCER: Starting right now on THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, race of a lifetime.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We're going to win, win, win.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You can believe the highs. Now the de facto nominee, Donald Trump, already facing a party on the edge of collapse.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Paul Ryan.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: OK.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: So he says different (INAUDIBLE)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Will the last Republican standing break apart the GOP?
Plus, trading blows.
HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Their presumptive nominee, otherwise called their presumptuous nominee.
DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: She's married to a man who is the worst abuser of women in the history of politics.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How low will they go?
We're one-on-one with Donald Trump. His own words on Hillary, his feud with party leaders and his vision for the White House.
From ABC News, it's THIS WEEK.
Here now, chief anchor, George Stephanopoulos.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: Good morning and to all our moms out there, Happy Mother's Day.
Well, a year ago, it seemed impossible. Even a month ago, the odds were long. But this week, Donald Trump sealed the deal, the last man standing for the GOP nomination well before the convention.
In many ways, it's still hard to believe. And for many Republicans, including two former presidents and the speaker of the House, hard to accept, especially after headlines like these. "Donald Trump's Feud with the Establishment Threatens to Break the Republican Party in Half."
And as you'll hear in a moment, the GOP's presumptive nominee is willing to fix it, but only on his terms.
Donald Trump's bet that he can make the grand old party a brand new party and prove his doubters wrong again by winning the White House.
TRUMP: So we've had a pretty busy couple of weeks, right?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now the nominee, Donald Trump is also the underdog, trailing Hillary Clinton atop a divided party.
TRUMP: Knock the crap out of him, would you?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Questions about his experience, temperament and judgment.
CLINTON: We can't have a loose cannon in the Oval Office.
STEPHANOPOULOS: From day one and with every provocation...
TRUMP: They're bringing drugs, they're bringing crime, they're rapists.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- Trump has been counted out.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Trump's running for president, like...
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: -- does gravity still work, because I mean it's...
STEPHANOPOULOS: And since we're counting, here are some other numbers. Trump will win more votes than any other Republican candidate in U.S. history. He's already hit 10.6 million and with big states still ahead, he will easily beat George W. Bush's 2000 primary record of 10.8 million.
Trump has defeated 16 candidates, another record number, with a combined 200 years in elective office.
TRUMP: I actually wish the primaries were not over. It's so fun this way.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So can Trump defy expectations again?
JOE BIDEN, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He has beaten the odds. He's surprised everybody. I think we all make a mistake if we don't take him seriously.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: The vice president there wearing fellow Democrats that Trump may pivot.
BIDEN: And begin to do the policy pieces of what would make people think, well, maybe this guy can actually be president.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You have to go all the way back to Dwight Eisenhower to find a candidate with as little political experience. But Eisenhower was America's war hero, Trump a businessman and TV star.
TRUMP: You're fired.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Now in 1976, Ronald Reagan was also dismissed as a B movie actor, but he almost took the nomination. Four years later, he was in the same spot Trump is in now -- trailing Jimmy Carter in all the polls.
Then, as the general election kicked off, Reagan caught a wave of populist anger and rode it all the way to the White House.
RONALD REAGAN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: I, Ronald Reagan, do solemnly swear.
TRUMP: A very good magazine this week.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the party that still reveres Ronald Reagan is far from sold on Donald Trump.
REP. PAUL RYAN (R-WI), SPEAKER OF THE HOUSE: I think that what is required is that we unify this party. And I think the bulk of the burden on unifying the party will have to come from our presumptive nominee.
TRUMP: I'm going to do what I have to do. I have millions of people that voted for me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I sat down with Trump at Omaha's airport on Friday, just before a rally. And I began by asking him what he plans to tell Paul Ryan when they meet face-to-face on Thursday.
TRUMP: I'm going to say, look, this is what the people want. I just don't understand why he didn't. You know, most people have come out in favor. We've gotten tremendous endorsements over the last short period of time.
Uh, even Governor Perry came out. I mean he was very rough and then he came out and he had a very beautiful statement. I mean he came out with a magnificent statement.
Look, I've had so much support. I've had support from all the people that Paul Ryan works with. I mean you see all the congressmen. They're coming forward. They're coming forward in waves right now. And I'm actually a little surprised that this is happening this quickly.
And just about the -- I mean I understand why a Jeb Bush or a Lindsey Graham, who I don't even care if he supports me. And I was rough with him and I beat him badly, I mean 48-2 in his own state. And -- and I understand that.
But Paul Ryan is a different...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you're saying he's going to have to come to you, you're not going to come to him.
TRUMP: No, I'm going to certainly come down the middle, but I'm just going to have to see what he's looking for. I was very surprised and very disappointed because, you know, you should be -- we've got to be cheerleaders for the Republican Party. We don't have to play cute.
STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): That became his line of the weekend.
TRUMP: You know, he called me three weeks ago. We couldn't have had a nicer conversation that's great and we'll, you know, work together. Well, everything is fine.
And then all of a sudden, he wants to be cute.
But, you know, we'll see. We'll see.
STEPHANOPOULOS: As for Republicans who say they won't support or endorse him...
TRUMP: I don't even want -- if -- if somebody doesn't want to endorse, I don't want their endorsement. It's OK. I'm going to release them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's quite a list. Presidents George -- George W. Bush, Mitt Romney, ex-rivals Lindsey Graham and Jeb Bush.
TRUMP: Well, I understand Jeb Bush. I was rough with Jeb Bush. And I think if I was Jeb Bush, I wouldn't vote for me either, if you want to know the truth, George.
But, you know, they should do that. They're Republicans.
STEPHANOPOULOS (on camera): But Paul Ryan is different. He's the speaker of the House. He's the highest ranking...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- elected Republican in the country right now. He's the chairman of the convention.
Back in March, you said he'd pay a price if he didn't get along with you.
What is that price?
TRUMP: Well, we're going to see what happens. He wants to meet. He'd like to meet. And I think we're meeting on Thursday. And we'll just see what happens. It's just more drama.
But I think it's a mistake not to do this. We want to bring the party together.
Does the party have to be together?
Does it have to be unified?
I'm very different than everybody else, perhaps, that's ever run for office. I actually don't think so. I think that...
STEPHANOPOULOS: It doesn't have to be unified.
TRUMP: No, I don't think so. I think it would be better if it were unified. I think it would be, uh, there would be something good about it. But I don't think it actually has to be unified in the traditionally sense.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But the party (INAUDIBLE).
TRUMP: I'm going to do what I have to do. I have millions of people that voted for me because I have strong borders, because I want strong trade. I want good trade. I want trade. I don't want to be an isolationist, but what's happening with China, what's happening with Japan, what's happening with Mexico, they're just absolutely eating our lunch. It's a shame. It's terrible.
So I have to say true to my principles, also. And I'm a conservative, but don't forget, this is called the Republican Party. It's not called the Conservative Party. You know, there are Conservative Parties. This is called the Republican Party.
I am a conservative.
STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): While Trump swats away critics in his own party, Hillary Clinton is focused on locking in her base by playing that women's card.
HILLARY CLINTON (D-NY), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: He doesn't think much of equal pay for women because, of course, he doesn't think much of women, it turns out.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Trump digging in with this remarkable statement.
TRUMP: I mean all of the men, we're petrified to speak to women anymore. We may raise our voice.
You know what?
The women get it better than we do, folks, all right?
They get it better than we do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But he's also up against the president.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Republican women voters are going to have to decide is that the guy I feel comfortable with in representing me and what I care about.
TRUMP: Well, I'll tell you what my reaction is. I won in massive doses and massive -- by a massive number, New York, Pennsylvania, everything. I won overall. But I won with women. I won with men. I won with older. I won with soldiers. I won with highly educated and not so highly educated. I won with everybody.
STEPHANOPOULOS (on camera): So you're not worried about Obama...
TRUMP: I won with...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- out there campaigning against you?
TRUMP: Look, you know what?
Once we start, I think it's going to be good.
You know, Hillary Clinton, the only thing she's got going, she plays the woman card 100 percent. I saw her in a speech, well Donald Trump spoke a little bit harshly to Megyn Kelly. Well, Megyn Kelly was really terrific. She called me and came up to my office. She wanted to make peace. And we did. We did. I mean, it was very nice.
Some of the stuff is said as, you know, an entertainer, because I have The Apprentice, or some of it was said in fun with certain shows like Howard Stern, who is a friend of mine...
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you're not worried about the tapes of that coming back?
TRUMP: It comes back.
I mean, look, what am I going to do? Everyone else thinks it. You know, these politicians, I watch the politicians, what they say behind the scenes makes whatever I said jokingly to Howard and other people like baby stuff.
What they tell me behind the scenes talking about everything is far worse than anything that you've seen or you ever will see about me. And then they act like, oh, that's so terrible. That's so terrible.
I mean, you know when it's called? Give me a break. And I watch Hillary Clinton like she's a baby. I mean, just look at what happens with her family. I watch Hillary Clinton like, oh, the way he talks to women, the way he talks to women, well -- you know, take a look at her husband and what do you think he talks to women?
So, when I watch her and she's playing the women card so much and so loud. And frankly I think it's her only chance of getting elected. You know what, listen, she's going to get hit for it, because it's not appropriate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You know, there was an article in GQ about your wife Melania this week. And you said that spouses should be off the table, but you are willing to talk about Bill Clinton. Should he be off the table as well?
TRUMP: It depends on if he's involved in the campaign. I think if he's involved in the campaign, he shouldn't be. And he probably will be involved.
I think he gets involved when she plays the women card. When she said Donald Trump was nasty to a woman, number one I've worked so well with women for so many years. I broke -- you know, you talk about the glass ceiling, what I've done in terms of jobs for women and I've gotten so much credit, and to this day I have so many women in my company that are doing so well, making so much money, I mean, in many cases making more money than men in comparable positions.
But, no, if he's involved in the campaign, he should absolutely, you know, he could be brought into it.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, not -- fair game.
TRUMP: I think fair game, yeah. No, I think fair game.
STEPHANOPOULOS: As Trump make clear Friday night.
TRUMP: Nobody in this country, and maybe in the history of the country politically, was worse than Bill Clinton with women. He was a disaster.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Saturday.
TRUMP: Hillary Clinton's husband abused women more than any man that we know of in the history of politics, right. She's married to a man who was the worst abuser of women in the history of politics. She's married to a man who hurt many women. And Hillary, if you look and you study, Hillary hurt many women.
STEPHANOPOULOS: To Trump, the rules of the game are clear -- if you're on the field, you get hit.
TRUMP: Now, my wife was a very successful person. She did great. She was a very successful model. And now she's a homemaker. I mean, she just wants to -- she loves taking caring of (inaudible). She's a very good woman.
And, you know, people that are married to people like me, especially people like me -- I hope there are others out there, who knows -- but they get really hit unfairly by so many different articles and writers. And they're not looking to hurt them, they're looking to hurt me.
But, you know, she's a very good woman. A tremendous heart. She's very -- you know, very charitable. And it's sort of unfair when they get treated nastily. Not so bad, but nastily.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Much more of an interview with Donald Trump coming up, but let's break in now with our roundtable.
Joined by ABC's Matthew Dowd, Democratic strategist Donna Brazile, Republican strategist Alex Castellanos, and Rich Lowry editor of the National Review, Katrina Vanden Heuvel editor and publisher of The Nation. Welcome to you all.
Let's start out with this question, this feud between Paul Ryan right now and Donald Trump, Matthew Dowd. You've go a tweet from Sarah Palin this morning out on -- she's on CNN -- vowing to defeat Speaker Ryan for defying Trump, says Ryan motivated by 2020 White House ambitions. Kind of a declaration of war right there.
So, can this breach be healed? Does it have to be healed?
MATTHEW DOWD, ABC NEWS: Well, I think actually the breach isn't between -- fundamentally between some levels of the GOP elite to Donald Trump, the breach is between various members of the elite and the GOP voters. I think the problem for the GOP elite right now is the GOP voters have basically spoken and that Donald Trump represents their party. And I think Paul Ryan and others in the party have to decide if the Republican Party, as it is today, represented by Donald Trump is their party anymore.
It's -- Donald Trump isn't the problem for the GOP elite, the Republican voters are the problem for the GOP elite.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And that leads to the question, I want to bring this to you, Alex Castellanos. You know, Paul Ryan is supposed to be the chair of the convention. I actually asked Donald Trump whether he should be chair. Here it was.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Can Paul Ryan chair the convention if he doesn't endorse you?
TRUMP: That's a question you're going to have to ask him and Reince and I guess me.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah, that's why I'm asking you.
TRUMP: Look, I've had so much support -- I've had support from all the people that Paul Ryan works with.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: That's to Matt's point, he's keeping his power dry right there. But it does lead to something of an awkward situation in July in Cleveland if he hasn't come around.
ALEX CASTELLANOS, REPUBLICAN STRATEGIST: Maybe it's like Bob Dole says, maybe if Paul Ryan sleeps late that day at the convention.
Paul Ryan has power. Paul Ryan has strength. He leads policy, the intellectual wing -- you know, the future of the Republican Party really is in Paul Ryan's hands.
Trump is a strong guy. Trump respects strength. Paul Ryan says, OK, let's talk. This is actually good probably for both of them. This is the opening bid in that negotiation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you think it's inevitable that they come around?
CASTELLANOS: I think they'll have to come around. But, it's going to be up to Trump I think to understand that he needs something Paul Ryan has. Paul Ryan has the future.
Hillary Clinton in this election is a candidate of the past, right. She's more of the same from WAshington, hasn't done enough. Paul Ryan is saying, look, there's a new economy. This world is connected. We have to open things up. He gave a brilliant speech at Georgetown the other day about that.
Trump is not running as a party guy, Trump is running as I'm just one human being, a person I'm going to do a better job. He has no vision around which to rally a party. That's what Ryan could give...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Also made it clear that he's not running as a conservative in that interview, solely as a conservative, Rich Lowry.
You had that famous cover trying to stop Trump a couple of months back. Is Paul Ryan now part of the Stop Trump movement, or is he as Alex is talking about, going to have to get on board?
RICH LOWRY, NATIONAL REVIEW: Well, I think what Ryan did was rightly an expression of kind of disgust with how many Republicans just got on board immediately with no questions asked. But I think given his position within the party, and probably at the convention, it's going to be really hard for him to sustain this posture.
I believe he'll seek some assurances from Trump that he'll be a little more serious on policy, a little bit more serious in his demeanor. And whatever assurances...
STEPHANOPOULOS: ...Trump passes off the Muslim ban?
LOWRY: ...will be worth nothing.
DONNA BRAZILE, DEMOCRATIC STRATEGIST: Well, George, look, the day after Donald Trump became the presumptive Republican nominee, he doubled down on banning Muslims. He doubled down on building a way. Paul Ryan has been at least one of hte republicans who have spoken out against the kind of bigotry of Donald Trump.
And I think for Paul Ryan to just basically rubber stamp Donald Trump without questioning the substance of some of the things he's said and the tone, that's -- Paul Ryan has been talking about changing the tone.
And yes, Alex, he's apologized for, you know, even attacking poor people in the past. I don't know if that's a quote, unquote, the policies of the future. But at least Paul Ryan understands that Donald Trump has to change his tone before he embraces...
KATRINA VANDEN HEUVEL, THE NATION: Paul Ryan is a member of the elites, which Matt spoke of. I think we're seeing the crack up of a party, because the elites didn't deliver for the base. They've been shafted over the years.
And we're also see, let's be honest, Donald Trump is like the Republicans Frankenstein with orange hair. I mean, the Republican Party is reaping what it has sowed.
There's all this nostalgia about Ronald Reagan. Ronald Reagan announced his candidacy in Philadelphia, Mississippi, the site of where three civil rights workers were killed by white supremacists. This is a party, which has exploited -- where Trump has now exploiting dog whistle racism, grievances, resentments.
We need an inclusive populism, not the scapegoating populism, to speak to the real anxieties and fears and frustrations, but with hope, not demonization as Donald Trump is doing.
DOWD: I think Katrina is right I think in part on this is, is that there is this fundamental existential question that the Republican elites have to ask themselves is Paul Ryan -- what party is Paul Ryan the future of? Because the party right now says we want to ban Muslims -- they voted for Donald Trump -- we want to build a wall. That is who the party is.
And so to me, yes, Paul Ryan is the future, but it is of a future that is of a dinosaur party that is gone.
LOWRY: Traditional critiques of the Republicans are they are too obstructionist -- and here you have Donald Trump saying he's going to make almost any deal he can -- and that they're too rigidly ideological -- and here you have Donald Trump saying I have no ideology whatsoever.
So, there's no doubt that for a next interval here, Reagan style conservatism will be in exile within the party. And for the first time ever, we need to get our minds around this, the size of government, which has been a chief division in American politics, at least going back since the New Deal, will not be a major issue in this general election.
VANDEN HEUVEL: That is critical, because the Republican Party, the conservative movement for the last 70 years, has essentially framed itself by fighting against the civilizing advances of the New Deal or Great Society. This is a moment where we should take advantage to think anew about what it means for people's lives.
DOWD: ...the Republican Party is, is that they've lived in hypocrisy on this issue, which is they say they're for small government. They say they're for a restrictive growth of government, but every single person that's gotten in office over the last 25 years has grown government.
CASTELLANOS: I think both parties here created a leadership vacuum. Democrats have more of the same from Washington. And, hey, look how things are going. Not so hot.
Republicans said our principles are only good for saying no and for telling people what they can't do. Guess what, Americans are frustrated and angry.
There's one center of power in this country right now that's saying, no, let's make this...
CASTELLANOS: ...and that's Paul Ryan.
VANDEN HEUVEL: Obama said about Bernie Sanders, he's the fresh face of the Democratic Party.
CASTELLANOS: He is more of the same...
VANDEN HEUVEL: He's not only moved...
CASTELLANOS: ...not a new idea...
VANDEN HEUVEL: But he has not only moved the Democratic Party to the progressive left, he has moved a generation to the progressive left. That is the future.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to talk more about the generation -- but I just want to ask, Rich, one final question question. How can Paul Ryan come around to Donald Trump if Donald Trump does not move on either the ban on Muslims or the deportation of immigrants?
LOWRY: It's going to be very awkward.
And look Trump, he doesn't like foreign trade. He doesn't particularly like foreign nations, including our allies. He doesn't like foreign interventions, and he doesn't particularly like foreigners when they come here. That's the ideological core. Everything else he is telling us is completely negotiable.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And all of you will be back later in the show. We have a lot more coming up.
Also more from Donald Trump. We're going to dig into his big economic policies, get some new signals on where he's going to bend, where he's going to stand his ground.
And later, is this the year a third party breaks through? The libertarian's candidate Gary Johnson joins us live.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a contest for the presidency of the United States. And what that means is that every candidate, every nominee, needs to be subject to exacting standards and genuine scrutiny.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPUOLOS: President Obama urging scrutiny of all the candidate's ideas on Friday just as we were sitting down with Donald Trump for a lively back and forth on his signature policies -- taxes, trade, making jobs here in America, and that ban on Muslims.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You say fixing the economy is your number one priority as president. And your tax plan is your more substantive and specific proposal out there. You said recently again that you believe in raising taxes on the wealthy, including yourself, but your plan gives a massive tax cut to the wealthy. How do you square that?
TRUMP: It gives a massive tax cut to everybody. If you look at Larry Kudlow, he said it's a great plan. He loves the plan.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But more to the wealthy than everyone else.
TRUMP: ...George. And I'll say this to people, I've said it many times. I make deals. I negotiate. I put out a plan that has a massive, massive tax -- bigger than any other candidate. We have to negotiate with congress. You know, I'm not going to be able to say, like, President Obama let's do an executive order, OK. It would be wonder, it would be a lot easier, but you just can't do it when you're not supposed to do it.
He may do something -- and what he's done will probably -- much of it will be overturned by the courts. What I'm doing is I'm putting in a plan and that's my maximum plan. It's what I want.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But bottom line, do you want taxes on the wealthy to go up or down?
TRUMP: They will go up a little bit. And they may got up, you know...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But they're going down in your plan.
TRUMP: No, no, in my plan they're going down, but by the time it's negotiated, they'll go up.
Look, when I'm negotiating with the Democrats, I'm putting in plan. I'm putting in my optimum plan. It's going to be negotiated, George, it's not going to stay there. They're not going to say there's your plan, let's approve it. They're going to say, let's see what we can do.
Now, it will be a negotiation. I will try and keep everything -- what I really want is lower on business, because business -- we're the highest taxed nation in the world. And I want lower in the middle class. The middle class in this country is getting decimated. I want -- and I will fight like hell for that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But people like (INAUDIBLE)...
TRUMP: I don't mind playing...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- dichotomy.
TRUMP: I don't mind paying more tax, I'll be honest with you. I don't mind paying more tax. I've done very well over the last 40 years.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But under your plan, you pay less taxes.
TRUMP: But under my plan, it's going to be negotiated. What I'm saying is I will be submitting something like what I did in terms of concept -- because it's just a concept, George.
You know, we're putting in the policy, we're putting in a statement. It's a concept.
And I'll tell you what the real concept is. Lower taxes for business, lower taxes for the middle class, lower taxes for everybody and then we're going to start negotiating.
So if I want to get lower taxes, which is very important for me, I'm not going to put in high taxes and I'm not even going to put in what I necessarily want. I'm going to put in lower than I want and we're going to negotiate.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But in the end, will someone like me or Donald Trump pay more under your tax plan?
TRUMP: I have a feeling we may pay some more. But I'll tell you, the middle class is going to pay a lot less. And I wouldn't mind paying more, George. We've got to do something. I mean I wouldn't mind paying more.
But business will pay less. The middle class will pay less. We're going to bring in our money. You know, the corporate inversion is what's going on is incredible, with the companies leaving. But we have trillions of dollars outside of the country. We have a 10 percent tax on that money. Right now, they can't bring it back in. And by not bringing it back in, George, that's a disaster.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So is that something you're ready to negotiate with the Democrats, even though you're calling for (INAUDIBLE)...
TRUMP: No, but, you know, that -- on that, on the money...
TRUMP: -- on the trillions that are out there...
STEPHANOPOULOS: No, on the taxes on the wealthy.
TRUMP: Everybody -- please...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- you're saying you're willing to pay more.
TRUMP: I'm -- I am willing to pay more.
And do you know what?
The wealthy are willing to pay more. We've had a very good run. You know, we hear all about Obama. We hear all about -- we've had a very good run.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So that would be a big change from your plan.
TRUMP: No, it's not a change, George. It's a negotiation. Remember this, if I could get my plan approved the way it is nice I would be very happy. It's not going to happen, because we have a lot of people that are going to be negotiating this and they don't -- they don't do very well.
The world -- if you look at the United States with tax plans, not a lot happens. It just sort of stays the same. It's a big quagmire.
One of the things I'm getting is big simplification. We're getting the lower rates. We're getting a lot of things. But we're getting massive simplification. We're getting rid of carried interest, which is, you know, not going to make hedge fund people happy.
STEPHANOPOULOS: (INAUDIBLE). But those people are actually going to be paying fewer -- less taxes under your plan because even though you're getting rid of the loophole, you're taxing it as regular income,
TRUMP: We're getting rid of the loophole -- yes, but George, but let...
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's going to go down from 23 to 15 percent.
TRUMP: George, by the time it gets negotiated, it's going to be a different plan. And, you know, I like to be -- I like to have my cards on the table. We're going to submit the optimum. That's what I'd like to get and we'll fight for it.
But from a practical standpoint, it's going to get re-negotiated, and, in my opinion, the taxes for the rich will go up somewhat.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Minimum wage -- all through the primaries, you were against an increase. Now you're saying you're looking at it.
So what's your bottom line on this...
TRUMP: Well, I am looking at it and I haven't decided in terms of numbers. But I think people have to get more.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But that's a change from where you were during...
TRUMP: It's not a very (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- the primary.
TRUMP: Well, sure it's a change. I'm allowed to change. You need flexibility, George, whether it's a tax plan where you're going to -- where you know you're going to negotiate. But we're going to come up with something.
But my real minimum wage is going to be -- I'm going to bring companies back into this country and they're going to make a lot more than the $15 even. They're going to make a lot more than that. That's what I want to do, because...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk about that, because...
TRUMP: -- George, I've gone all over this country over the last three -- really, more the eight weeks than ever before.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Since last June.
TRUMP: And I've gone over and I've seen factories that are just empty, beautiful factories, although now they're not so beautiful, because they're starting to crumble.
But I've seen buildings that used to house thousands and thousands of people and they're just empty. You can buy them for $2. And I stayed in New York...
STEPHANOPOULOS: And you said you want those to come back...
TRUMP: -- Pennsylvania.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- Carrier, Ford...
TRUMP: I want them to come back.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Apple. You want them all to come back.
TRUMP: Well, I don't want them to leave. And they're not going to leave, because if I'm -- we have to use the power of the tariff. We have to use the power of taxation. And if we don't do that, we're very, very (INAUDIBLE).
STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't you have to also lead by example?
You know, so many of the products in the Donald J. Trump Collection are made overseas -- Bangladesh, China...
TRUMP: Well, that's because you can't even buy them here.
TRUMP: You know, George, I want to buy television sets here. I want to buy it. I buy thousands of television sets a year. I have a lot of different projects, as you probably have heard. And I buy thousands of sets.
I cannot buy a television set in this country.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But if you want other companies to make their products in America, shouldn't you make your products in America?
TRUMP: But they don't make a lot of these products. They don't even make them here anymore. If you look at...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But shouldn't you lead by example?
TRUMP: George, I told you, they don't even make this stuff here. When I want to buy...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Brooks Brothers does.
TRUMP: Well, they -- but they don't make here. They don't make here, not that I see. Now, I make my hats, "make America great again." And I said you must get the hats -- because I knew the first question already, where were the hats?
People actually grabbed the hats and they looked.
Now, I will say this, there are knock-offs from hundreds of companies of the -- you know, that hat is a very successful thing. And I see them all the time, all over the place.
But I said, I want all of this stuff for the campaign, I want it to be made here. It's made here.
And I'm very happy about it. And, by the way, the quality of the hat is better than all of the other ones...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- not going to be -- for President Trump is in the Oval Office, he's got the head of Carrier in there, he's got the head of Apple in the Oval Office. And they're saying back to you, but why aren't you making your products in America?
TRUMP: George, they don't even make the stuff here. It's so hard to get.
Why don't I buy certain building materials here?
I say make sure you buy them in the United States. They come back, they don't even sell stuff in the United...
STEPHANOPOULOS: You don't think that undercuts your position?
TRUMP: We -- no, I don't think it does at all. And, in fact, look, what I want to do and what I'm saying is I want Apple, which has taken a big hit lately, which is sort of interesting and a lot of people are starting to think why.
But I want Apple to make its product in the United States.
You know, if you think about it, you save all the shipping. You know, you save a lot of costs by doing it.
But one of the problems that we have is the devaluation of the different currencies. They're devaluing the currencies.
Right here in Nebraska, so they have a 38 percent tariff when they send out goods to China. Thirty-eight percent tariff. Nobody knows that. I just found out about it.
I came here, I said, when you send your goods, and it's (INAUDIBLE) product, when you send your goods to China -- and the person was telling me -- I just spoke with the governor, who's fantastic, by the way, the governor of Nebraska is fantastic, Governor Ricketts. And I said, what about -- we have a 38 percent tariff going into China.
And I said to myself, wow, that's like unbelievable.
Now, they sent -- and Japan. In Japan, it's 38 percent. And they send their cars over -- and you can check and I guarantee you, it's probably 0, it's usually 0, but it's a very low number.
So we have like a double standard. It's not fair and it's going to be changed.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've raised a lot of elbows with your position on debt and Treasury bills in an interview the other day. You said you might try to repurchase it at a discount.
Won't that undermine the full faith and credit of the United States?
TRUMP: No. If we can buy at a discount, that's a great thing. We have to lower debt. We have $9 trillion in debt. It's going to be $21 trillion, because frankly, the budget was horrible that was made six months ago, the omnibus budget, it was a disaster, what it does, what it represents. It's going to bring us up to $21 trillion.
TRUMP: Look, we have to do two things. I'm a low interest rate person. I believe now if you have vint -- if you have inflation, we're going to have to change that theory, because you're going to have to stoop things -- slow things down.
But right now, we have low interest rates.
We have to rebuild the whole infrastructure of our country. I know the infrastructure. I've really gotten to know it even better now.
You go to airports, they're falling down. If you go right -- I mean look at LaGuardia. You land at LaGuardia, it's an embarrassment. Look at Kennedy. Look at -- look at lax and Newark.
STEPHANOPOULOS: If you try to buy debt back (INAUDIBLE) interest rates are going to go up.
TRUMP: No, you can buy debt back (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But you have to borrow to pay for it.
TRUMP: No, you buy debt back and you take advantage of certain things. You can -- as an example, there are people with large homes. Do you know China right now has $1.8 trillion of our debt, OK?
1.8. And they're cheating us. And they're friends of mine.
STEPHANOPOULOS: They're not going to (INAUDIBLE)...
TRUMP: Well, you never know. You never know. All of a sudden they have to sell at a discount. You don't -- you don't know that. At some point, they might want to get out. Maybe they need their money. They might want to get out.
When you can do it, when you can take advantage, you do that. But you might want to issue new long-term debt and very low interest rates and you may want a -- a combination of buying back some debt and rebuild our infrastructure.
George, we've spent more than $4 trillion in the Middle East and our country is going to hell.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk more about the Middle East.
In your speech, your foreign policy speech a couple of weeks ago, you said you wanted to work closely with our Muslim allies to defeat ISIS.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But don't you push those allies away with your plan that...
TRUMP: No, you don't push anybody...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- prevents Muslims...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- this country?
TRUMP: If anything, you make them stronger toward you. And I've heard that whole thing, oh, if you do the ban -- well, the ban is a temporary ban until we find out what's going on, because you see hey, the World Trade Center, San Bernardino. We can't go through this. Look at what's happening in Europe. Look what's happening in Germany. Look at what's happening to Sweden. They have a small section of Sweden which is beyond out of control, all right?
We can't be the super people anymore. In fact, right here in Nebraska, they're bringing in tremendous numbers of people...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me put you back in the Oval Office...
TRUMP: -- and we -- we can't...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- though...
TRUMP: -- we don't know who these people are. We don't know where they're coming from.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're in the Oval Office...
TRUMP: I will stop that immediately.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're in the Oval Office a year from now, President Trump is there. David Cameron, who's criticized pro -- your proposal -- comes to you. Benjamin Netanyahu comes to you. He's criticized the proposal. The leaders of -- of Jordan and Egypt and Turkey come to and say we want to help you in the fight against ISIS, we can't do it if that ban is in place.
What do you do?
TRUMP: I disagree with them. I think it's going to be even better. I think if the ban is in place, they're going to want to show that they're going to -- look, we're not getting any help. If you look at the help, we're not getting help. They keep saying boots on the ground, boots on the ground, they're not fighting, we give them equipment, they run. They drop our equipment. The enemy picks up our equipment.
I have a friend whose son has been years now, numerous terms, over in Iraq. And he's an unbelievable young guy. And I brought him in -- I wanted to talk to him about it. They're very despiritized.
And he said, the equipment that the American soldiers have is not as good as what the enemy has.
I said, how can that be?
And they have our equipment because the enemy takes over the equipment that the other ones are using, our so-called allies are using, when they drop it and they run. They run for their lives.
And the enemy picks up our equipment. Two thousand Humvees that armor-plated, the best in the world, and we have stuff without armor plate, all right?
And he said it's really sad when the enemy has our equipment and it's better and newer than the stuff they're using.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: The roundtable weighs in when we come back.
Plus, he won more than a million votes in 2012, polls in double digits now and Gary Johnson will likely be on the ballot in all 50 states.
So is the third party candidate the voters -- the -- the candidate some voters are looking for, even if they don't know who he is?
We're going to talk to him next.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Donald Trump's dad brought him up in the real estate business and in honor of Mother's Day, I closed out our interview by asking him to reflect on his late mom.
TRUMP: A great heart. She was a warm woman. She was a tremendous -- she had a tremendous warmth and a tremendous heart. And she understood -- she understood life so well.
My father was sort of a very hard driving guy, a really good man, a very good person, but very hard.
She was just somebody that was so warm and had the greatest heart. She loved people.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Yes, a lot of people hate Trump, but don't forget, a lot of people hate Hillary, too. No one is really happy with either of these choices. It's like if you're in the mood for soup, so you go to the diner to get some soup. But the only two options they have left are pumpkin corn chowder or Hillary Clinton.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And you're going, on second thought, I'm not that hungry.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: All kinds of talk about a third party candidate challenging Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump, which means that former New Mexico governor, Gary Johnson, and his Libertarian Party, are gearing up for a big year.
STEPHANOPOULOS (voice-over): The party founded in 1971 may now be having its moment. Libertarians meet May 27th in Orlando, 800 delegates in all, and they are getting a lot of mainstream attention.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The Libertarian Party represents -- continues to represent those -- those constitutional principles that I agree with.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The party lines up with conservatives on fiscal issues, social issues, not so much. Libertarians are all about freedom of choice -- drugs, abortion, who you sleep with nobody's business but your own.
But maybe that will attract disaffected Democrats. Ideology aside, there are a lot of prominent conservatives and potential candidates talking about a third way.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Can't we do better?
And I think we can. I hope that a serious Independent candidate steps forth. And I think that candidate could really surprise. I think that candidate could do well.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: If you got to a place where those are the two major party nominees -- and I certainly hope that they're not -- I'd have to look for a third party option.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Against that backdrop, the Libertarian Party may prove a tempting target. After all, it's on the ballot in more than 30 states, hoping to hit 50 by Election Day.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Gary Johnson joins us now.
Governor Johnson, thank you for joining us this morning.
You know, so many conservatives now are talking about a third party.
I wonder, do you see that as a threat or an opportunity as a libertarian?
And have you talked to them about joining forces?
JOHNSON: Well, I think it is a real opportunity. I do think that, um, Clinton and, uh, Trump are the two most polarizing figures in politics today. And when 50 percent of Americans now declare themselves as Independent, I happen to think that they're libertarian, it's just that they don't know it.
And you teed it up just right. Look, fiscally responsible, fiscally conservative, small government and then individual choices -- freedom, liberty. Persons should be making choices in their own lives, not the government.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what's your direction...
JOHNSON: As long as those choices don't put other people in harm's way.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So what is your direct pitch to those "never Trump" conservatives?
JOHNSON: You know, my direct pitch to everybody is to get on this Web site isidewith.com and take the political quiz that at the end of the political quiz, you get paired up with the presidential candidate most in line with your views. Isidewith -- hey, shouldn't you find out who you most pair up with and then just knock yourself out supporting that candidate?
I happen to think that (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: You think they're going to end up with you?
JOHNSON: I think that might be the case. But it's very objective -- why not -- why not give that a shot?
STEPHANOPOULOS: At first blush, it seems like you're going to take more votes from Donald Trump than Hillary Clinton.
Do you agree with that?
JOHNSON: Well, no, absolutely not. And in this Monmouth Poll -- and key for me, George, is just continuing to be in these polls. But in the Monmouth Poll, where I was 11 percent, actually, in that poll, I took more votes away from, uh, Hillary than Trump,
But I think it really -- it draws from both sides and -- and at the end of the day, 50 percent of Americans say they're Independent.
Well, where's their representation?
I think it happens to be Libertarian.
STEPHANOPOULOS: In the past, I guess you got about a million votes, uh, last time around.
Don't you need a lot more reach, a lot more money, in order to increase those numbers?
JOHNSON: Right. It's a real chicken and egg thing. Uh, if you're not in the polls, of course, you don't get the attention. And come the fall, really, at the heart of -- of why this system is so rigged is the Presidential Debate Commission. They say that you have to be at 15 percent in the polls to be in the presidential debates. And, by the way...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Ross Perot got there.
JOHNSON: Well, the -- actually, um, that's when the League of Women Voters backed out, saying that the whole thing is a rigged game and that's when the Presidential Debate Commission moved in, uh, but that said, you've got to be in the polls for starters. And he was in the polls.
Come the fall, it wouldn't be surprising to me to say well, Gary Johnson, he wasn't polling well at all.
Well, the fact will be that I wasn't in the polls.
Right now, there's a legitimacy to having me in the polls, and that is, is that, uh, the Libertarian Party is going to be on the ballot in all 50 states. If I'm the Libertarian nominee, I happen to be, uh, I'm going to be the only third party on the ballot in all 50 states.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You -- you've, uh, been strongly for legalization of marijuana. In fact, you were the CEO of a company that produced marijuana products. You -- you're very open about the fact that that used them, as well.
I guess you're going to have to give that up if you win the White House.
JOHNSON: You know, I've said I -- I'm going to do that. I haven't had a drink of alcohol in 29 years and legalizing marijuana, for me, bottom line, is making the world a better place.
Um, medicinal products that don't kill anybody, whereas statistically, legal prescription painkillers, anti-depressants kill 100,000 people. And I've always maintained that legalizing marijuana recreationally will lead to less overall substance abuse because people are going to find it as such a safer alternative than everything else that's out there, starting with alcohol.
In Colorado, the campaign to legalize marijuana was a campaign based on marijuana is safer than alcohol.
And then lastly, George, the war on drugs, huge human toll. There are tens of millions of Americans who are convicted felons in this country that but for our drug laws, would otherwise be taxpaying, law-abiding citizens.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, bottom line, if you were forced to choose between Hillary Clinton and Donald Trump...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- who's closer to your views?
JOHNSON: You know what, I've been voting Libertarian a long time. I -- I read a book in 1971 that, uh, really laid out what it was to be a libertarian. And I have identified myself as a libertarian ever since.
I'm always believing that there's going to be a libertarian on the ballot.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Gary Johnson, thanks for joining us this morning.
JOHNSON: Thank you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Up next, the roundtable is back with more on the November match-up.
Can Trump scramble the electoral map?
How low is his campaign going to go?
And is the field really now set?
WOLF BLITZER, HOST, "THE SITUATION ROOM": Would you consider being here vice presidential running mate?
SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (D-VT), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Well, right now, we are focused on the next five weeks of winning the Democratic nomination. If that does not happen, we're going to fight as hard as we can on the floor of the Democratic convention, to make sure that we have a progressive platform that the American people will support. And then after that certainly Secretary Clinton and I can sit down and talk and see where we go from there.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Could be a long shot, but who'd have thought the Democratic contest was going to go on longer than the Republicans. This has been some year.
Let's bring the roundtable back right now.
I do want to look ahead to the general election. And Matt Dowd, let me begin with you. You were one of the few people to call the primaries back in September. You said that Donald Trump was the strongest candidate for the nomination.
The question looking forward, can he defy expectations again?
DOWD: Well, I was very bullish on Donald Trump in the primaries. I think it becomes a much harder task in a general election in the course of this.
Can he win this race, and can he beat Hillary Clinton? Yes, it's possible. I think it's unlikely.
I think Donald Trump's best asset are two things -- the core of where the country is today, two-thirds of the country think we're on the wrong track, two-thirds of the country think that Washington, D.C. doesn't represent their values, and also Hillary Clinton's perception among Hillary Clinton that she's disliked and distrusted by the majority of the country.
The problem for Donald Trump is that he is more disliked and more distrusted by two-thirds of the country than Hillary Clinton is.
And so is it possible? Yes. I don't think it's probable.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You guys were talking about this in the Green Room.
CASTELLANOS: Yeah. I have a slightly more optimistic view of Trump's chances. I think they're at least 50/50, if not better.
First of all, Donald Trump is a talented political salesman. Hillary Clinton is one of the worst candidates in human history. Hillary Clinton has never been up against a candidate like Donald Trump with, you know, 10 arms and eight legs.
This guy tweets at night, crosses freeways with Secret Service details...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But is that an advantage in a general election? I mean...
CASTELLANOS: He's going to keep her off balance all the way through this thing.
But more importantly, Hillary -- the country is in trouble. The plane is headed for the top of the mountain here. We're going to crash unless we pull back. And Hillary Clinton is more of the same. The country is in the mood for disruptive change...
BRAZILE: Alex, please get some more rest.
The truth is I think that if you look at the electoral map...
CASTELLANOS: There are 16 dead Republicans out there who underestimated Donald Trump. Beware.
BRAZILE: Look, I mean, yes, no question. He scrambled the so-called electoral map regards to winning. And the rules that allow you to get all of the delegates if you won a state, that helped Donald Trump, because he only received 35 to 40 percent of the raw vote.
The truth is, look at the electoral map, and ask yourself what states can you put in play? I hear from my colleagues that the Rust Belt. He has to increase the white vote by four or five percentage points. There's no evidence he can increase it. I don't believe he can pull together the Reagan Democrats.
On the other hand, Hillary Clinton, I believe, can put Georgia into play, Arizona into play, and other so-called red states that will enable her to get more than 300...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Rich, there is a poll out this morning that's showing I think Hillary Clinton within 1 point in the state of Georgia.
So, where do you come down on this debate?
LOWRY: Well, first of all, some modesty here and a tip of the hat. As a critic, this is a guy who won a major party nomination with no pollster, no speech writer, no debate prep, very little policy staff, very little knowledge of public affairs, and very little campaign organization. That's an extraordinary feat. He's going to attack Hillary with a ferocity she has never encountered. And he's a very hard guy to handle.
But, the map is really tough. If Hillary just holds the 19 states Democrats have won every year since 1992, adds Florida where in the latest poll she has a 13 point lead, and Donald Trump's disfavorable among Hispanics is at 87 percent? And this is why I think Trump -- just one last thing, I think he needs kind of -- I might not like it, but he needs to lean into heterodoxies to try scramble everything.
STEPHANOPOULOS: What does that mean?
LOWRY: It wouldn't shock me if he ends up at the end of this to Hillary's left on health care.
Hillary is not going to move to the center on trade and Social Security, because Trump will hit her...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Higher taxes on the wealthy, higher minimum wage.
VANDEN HEUVEL: To pick up on what Rich said, it's important that Bernie Sanders keeps running, because he's moving Hillary Clinton to the progressive left. He's moving the party to the progressive left. We are going to witness a scorched earth campaign.
I would compare it to psychological voter suppression with Donald Trump may do to this country. He may make politics so ugly -- and we, we can't allow that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Won't that drive turnout up?
VANDEN HEUVEL: Well, he will relentlessly attack Hillary Clinton -- we're already seeing it -- that could drive turnout down. Demographics are on Hillary Clinton's side. We are living in a more socially tolerant, diverse country. Rising American majority. But the Democratic Party needs Bernie's people, too, young people, the working class in these Rust Belt states, the Democratic leaning independents. And needs to put together creative, massive voter registration grass roots campaign to get out the vote.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to put that question to Matthew Dowd. So, this does pose a strategic question for Hillary Clinton. When she's looking at things like the vice presidential pick, like her general election platform, does she try to double down on the Bernie Sanders supporters and the rising electorate? Or does she reach out to some of those Republicans who may be disaffected?
DOWD: Well, I think she needs to stay -- or try to move as quickly as she can to a populist rhetoric. She has to have a populist rhetoric that appeals to working class in the Rust Belt in the course of this. And she has to have a candidate with her on the ticket, it's probably not Bernie Sanders, but a candidate on the a ticket that can actually voice the concern of a populist America.
The problem in this election is, with all the debate that we've had over the primaries, and as you said I was very bullish on Donald Trump and said I thought he was going to win this thing in the nomination process, Donald Trump could get 50 million more votes than he got now and still lose in a landslide in the general election. That's the difference in the concept in the course of this.
To me, what we are faced with -- the choices that we are faced with today is there's rodents in the house, right. There's rodents in the house and you want an exterminator. And so do you call an exterminator who is going to patch the holes and leave it as is, which is status quo, which is Hillary Clinton or do you burn the house down?
DOWD: Do you bring in the guy -- the crazy guy that could poison your dog and...
BRAZILE: On this side of me I have a guy who believes that we're about to hit a mountain, and this guy who (inaudible) rodents...
BRAZILE: I really do believe that this is a historic opportunity.
The country is at a crossroad. And I think what Hillary Clinton has to do is abandon any notion that she can run a traditional campaign. Donald Trump...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think she can do that?
BRAZILE: I think so, because...
BRAZILE: ...she has to build upon...
BRAZILE: She can not -- look what happened to the Republicans.
VANDEN HEUVEL: I think she's become a better candidate because of Bernie Sanders in the race. She understands you can't run a traditional conventional campaign in this time of disruption.
I would conclude with one thing, though, we're leaving something out of this discussion: the media. I come back to the media. I don't know what -- you know, there's -- the media has already enabled Donald Trump in his Etch-a-Sketch reinvention. We saw it the other day with the Taco Bowl thing. He comes out with a tax cut, he recants his tax plan, but the media is about Hillary and Donald dueling over taco bowls...
STEPHANOPOULOS: We just spent 10 minutes on his tax plan.
VANDEN HEUVEL: There are -- I want to say there are strong, important journalists who are trying -- no, but Donald Trump presents...
STEPHANOPOULOS: I do not mean to be cutting you off...
VANDEN HEUVEL: ...unique problem, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're going to be right back after this from our ABC station.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It is the opening ceremony tonight for a different kind of sporting event: the Invictus Games, an international Paralympic style competition for wounded veterans kicks off in Orlando, the first in the U.S., with participants from over a dozen countries.
ABC's Bob Woodruff is there. And Bob, tell us about how these games got started.
BOB WOODRUFF, ABC NEWS: Well, this is from Prince Harry. You know, as you mentioned, you know, he went to the Wounded War Games down -- I guess it was about four or five years ago, over in Colorado where it's being run. And he says, you know, let me bring this to my own country and make it more international. He's got 14 different countries that are now competing in this.
And these guys, you're going to see, there's going to be very emotional, George. They are very competitive. They want to win. They are fighters. And they don't want to give up. Also a lot of them after this are going to head down to Rio also for the Paralympics down there in September.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Important for the Wounded Warriors, but also for their families, Bob.
WOODRUFF: Yeah, you know, the families, they get so little attention. You know, most of the attention goes on these that were wounded badly in the wars. But they are here. They're going to be surrounding them, sitting there in the stands, not only wives and husbands, parents, but also kids. Imagine what they have gone through all of these years. And they just want their dad or their mom to win. And I think that's going to happen.
STEPHANOPOULOS: First Lady Michelle Obama going to be there for the games, but also former President George W. Bush. And you're talking to him later today?
WOODRUFF: Yeah, you know, the first lady has been very active in all of this. And for years and years done so many changes.
Yes, and President Bush, we're going to talk to him very shortly. He's going to talk all about his new concentrations, which are really those invisible wounds, you know, for example PTSD and traumatic brain injury. But he's also going to talk to us about some other things and be surrounded by some of those wounded.
And one topic, though, George that he's not going to talk about is Trump and politics. He said that one is completely off the stage. No chance.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He has made that pretty clear.
OK, Bob, thanks very much.
And Robin Roberts is going to have that interview with First Lady Michelle Obama and Prince Harry tomorrow on GMA. And now we honor our fellow Americans who serve and sacrifice.
Since April 1, two service members died overseas supporting operations in Iraq.
That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out World News Tonight. And I'll see you tomorrow on GMA.