NEW YORK, April 21, 2013— -- A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday morning, April 21, 2013 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form and may be updated.
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OBAMA: Tonight our nation is in debt to the people of Boston.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Trail of terror.
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BOSTON POLICE OFFICER: We're exhausted, folks. But we have a victory here tonight.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: A city resilient.
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CITIZEN: We're strong. We're in it together.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: A country relieved.
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CROWD: USA! USA!
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STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, breaking details on the investigation. We remember the victims and ask...
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SUSPECTS UNCLE: It is atrocity. We're shocked.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: Who are the young men behind the carnage?
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SUSPECT'S CLASSMATE: He was a -- really a normal kid. He really didn't seem like the type that would harm a fly.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: What led these unassuming brothers to unspeakable violence? Could it have been prevented? What is the right response to this latest act of terror? We get to the heart of all of those questions right now.
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, a special edition of This Week with George Stephanopoulos. Reporting from ABC News Headquarters, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning. What an extraordinary week it has been. Secretary of State Kerry called it a "direct confrontation with evil." Evil met by heroism and resolve. And now, so many questions about what motivated these marathon bombings? And how America should confront the changing nature of terrorism? Boston Mayor, Tom Menino is here to take us behind the scenes of this intense week. But first, let's get the latest on the surviving suspect, and what comes next in the investigation from ABC's Senior Justice Department Correspondent, Pierre Thomas in Washington.
And Pierre, Dzhokhar Tsarnaev is in serious condition, and as I understand, in no shape to be questioned?
THOMAS: George, my sources are telling me the suspect has a wound to the neck and throat area that has made it very difficult for him to speak. It is unclear when he would be able to talk. And will he? He apparently knows that police killed his brother, but that Special Interrogation Team is standing by, ready to go.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And they will ask him questions at first without reading him, his Miranda rights. When do you expect charges to be filed?
THOMAS: Charges could come as early as today. Terror charges that could bring the death penalty. He is not going to be read the Miranda Warnings. They are going to use the Public Safety Exception, and dive in without advising him of his right to remain silent. They are taking this extraordinary step because there could be an eminent threat still out there. I just got of the phone, George with a senior law enforcement official who said there's deep, deep concern about the amount of ammunition, guns and working bombs these men had. They were so disciplined.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But any evidence of accomplices, or another sleeper cell?
THOMAS: Right now, no evidence of a broader plot involving more people here, but law enforcement officials say they cannot take that chance. The investigation is full-tilt to find out the answer to that very question.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Pierre. Thanks very much. Let's get more on this now from our team of ABC analysts. Legal analyst, Dan Abrams, former FBI Special Agent Brad Garrett, and Dick Clarke, Counterterrorism Chief of two presidents, President's Bush, and Clinton. And Dan, let me begin with you, and this -- this question about the questioning of the witness. At least at first, he will not be read his Miranda rights.
ABRAMS: That's right. You heard Pierre talk about this Public Safety Exception. And basically, the Supreme Court has recognized that in some cases, if there's the possibility of a eminent threat, that you can ask limited questions without first reading someone their Miranda rights. And that's what they're saying here. Now, down the road, will someone challenge it and say, this shouldn't have happened? Sure. Courts may have to resolve the specifics in this case later, but there's no question that the U.S. Supreme Court has recognized this limited exception to reading someone their Miranda rights.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Even -- even after a suspect has been in custody for a couple of days?
ABRAMS: Well, that -- the you start getting into the questions, right? Because the Supreme Court case basically involved stopping a guy who had an empty holster, and they said, where's your gun? And he said, Oh, it's -- it's back there. And the question there is, can that little statement be admitted? The court said yes. When you're talking about two days, the questions become more difficult as to whether it's legally permissible.
But, the FBI and this administration have clearly taken the position that you are allowed to ask these types of questions, even after the fact.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We're also seeing calls from some Senators, Lindsey Graham and others, saying that instead of being tried in court, he should be treated as an enemy combatant?
ABRAMS: Yeah, it's not going to happen for two reasons, first of all, he's a U.S. citizen, captured on U.S. soil. And the reality is, he couldn't be tried in a military tribunal anyway. The question is, could he be questioned as an enemy combatant? It's possible that he could be. But there seems to be no real reason to do that since you have that Miranda exception. They can ask these types of questions. It seems that that -- that would be foolish. And you really could hurt the case there, I think, by declaring him an enemy combatant.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, let's look at what the FBI is doing right now, with Brad Garrett. What -- what would be the nature of the questioning? What else are they doing around the suspect now?
GARRETT: Two main things, George. One is, are there other bombs, bomb components, or any sort of ordinance out there that -- that is set to go off? Or somebody else has access to it? The second prong that's the most important is, are they connected to anybody else? Is this a group? A small group, a large group? And if so, are they about to attack anybody?
STEPHANOPOULOS: And there had been a report that two young men were picked up in New Bedford. First they were questioned on Friday night, but then police went back in on Saturday, and took them away in handcuffs. But any concern about that at this point?
GARRETT: Not that I'm aware of. But -- but there will be a lot of false leads in this case. Maybe loose associations to both of them that have nothing to do with terrorism.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And -- and -- and a lot of questions as well about the fact that Tamerlan, the older brother had been questioned before by the FBI in 2011 at the request of the Russian government?
GARRETT: That's right. But think about this, George. There are hundreds of thousands of young adults in this country that visit extremist Islamic websites. He was one of them. And so the question is, what line do you draw? Do we continue investigation, or do we go and interview -- make a decision based on other intelligence that we're not going to pursue an active case against him?
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're already seeing some -- some -- Congressman Peter King criticizing the FBI, saying this was a missed opportunity, they let him slip through their fingers?
GARRETT: Well, that's great to say, but when you have literally hundreds of thousands of people you want to keep track of, you've got to prioritize. They're going to miss someone every once in awhile. And, the most important thing is, when you approach them, interview them, do their background, they may not have radicalized to the level of committing what we had on Monday.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, simply going to the websites wouldn't be enough?
GARRETT: Absolutely not.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. And Dick Clarke, let me go to -- to you with this as well. We know that he did -- the older brother, go back to Russia in 2012, was there for several months. We know they're of Chechen origin. But we also know that Chechnya has had much more of a beef with Russia than the United States.
CLARKE: Well, actually George, Chechens have been involved with al-Qaeda since almost the beginning of al-Qaeda. They were involved in fighting for al-Qaeda in Bosnia. They were involved in fighting against the Northern Alliance in Afghanistan, so there is a record there. But the real question here is, how do you tell when someone gets radicalized? They're normal, they're happy kids in Cambridge and then something happens, a switch is flipped.
How can the FBI, how can Homeland Security notice when that happens, or when the radicalization occurs? Especially if it's self-radicalization online? It's very, very difficult to do. What I want to know is, what did the Russians do when he went back to Russia? They had already said they were interested in him, and then he goes back to Russian and spends over six months there. What did they do? Did they follow him around? That's a question we need an answer to.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It -- it -- it does appear though we're dealing with something of a new pattern here since 9/11. Terrorist, or attempts at terrorist attacks by people who have been in the United States for quite a long period of time, but at some point, as you point out, become radicalized. We're figuring out what the trigger is, but these have not generally been -- the Times Square bomber had some connections overseas. Major Hasan had some connections to al-Awlaki, but not parts of larger, broader conspiracies.
CLARKE: Yeah, this probably will turn out that way, self-radicalization. But the issue here is, now that people have seen what two men can do with easily obtained materials, close down the city, get the president of the United States to show up. Other people around the country who have been radicalized have watched this. And they're going to wonder, is there a way now that I can do this?
ABRAMS: And -- to name him though -- coming back to the point of enemy combatant, there would have to be a specific connection to al-Qaeda, or the Taliban. You can't just say, this person was generally a threat to America, and as a result we're going to question him as an enemy combatant. Under the Rule of War, for example, you'd have to specifically be able to link him to al-Qaeda, and this is the difficulty that I think Dick is talking about.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And - and -- and to get to the point of -- it -- now, the threat may be increasing at this point. But actually over the last decade, we've actually seen a declining threat of terrorism since 2001?
CLARKE: Over the last decade, we've been remarkably lucky. And I don't understand, and I don't think anybody really understands why this hasn't happened many, many, many times over the course of the last decade? Because it's so easy for these people to do it. Now, the FBI has done a good job of pretending to be al-Qaeda. And when they see someone has been radicalized, approaching them, pretending to be al-Qaeda, getting them to do something, and then arresting them. And that works.
But that's not the only explanation. I think a lot of people believe they can't do this, it's too hard.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well let me press that for a moment, because you wrote a remarkable cover story in the Atlantic Magazine back in 2005 where you laid out what kinds of threats we could be facing in this next decade. You called it America Attacked, the Sequel. Attacks in casinos, attacks on malls, attacks on subways, other public areas. And like you say, you're scratching your head that it hasn't happened more often.
CLARKE: The only explanation that I have, aside from the FBI has infiltrated these groups, is that the potential attackers think it's too hard, which it's not. And now with this attack in Boston, it's been revealed it's not that hard.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, then what do we do, Brad?
GARRETT: Well, I think the reason -- to follow up on what Dick has said, the reason we have not had this level of attacks that he's suggesting is because you now have law enforcement working so closely together. Because the key in a lot of these cases, may be the local, or city and county police. Because their informants live in the communities that may have lived next door to these two brothers, may have noticed something.
If they would have stepped forward, you would have had that information. I think that's what stopped a lot of attacks over the years.
But the big problem is, George, is as we talked earlier is that flip over to when they are actually radicalized instead of talking about being radicalized and doing something bad. And if you're not there, either with physical surveillance, electronic surveillance or a source, you're not going to get them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You talk about this kind of thing -- one final question, it does appear that the young men stayed in the area, we know that Dzhokhar went to a party on his campus at University of Massachusetts I think on Wednesday night. They were basically hiding in plain sight.
GARRETT: Well, that's because I believe they weren't done. They had other bombs. I think they were going to -- because they didn't get caught -- for two days they didn't get identified -- we're going to go to the next location. And maybe they believed that ultimately at some point they were going to die, they were going to get into a shootout with the police, but they're going to do it -- they're going to set off as many bombs as they can before that occurs.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're shaking your head.
CLARKE: Yeah, I think that's exactly right. They did have another bomb. They threw it at the Watertown police Friday night. They had other bombs, they had other explosives, they didn't think they would get caught. And they were probably planning to do something else.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK. Gentlemen, thanks very much.
We're going to go back to Boston now. Mayor Tom Menino is standing by.
First, let's go to the Cathedral of the Holy Cross, that's where President Obama spoke earlier this week and Cardinal O'Malley is holding a memorial mass for the victims today. ABC's Byron Pitts is there. And Byron, the entire city reaching out to the victims and their families, but also bouncing back.
PITTS: George, this morning for the first time this week, we're hearing more and more people talk about healing. Part of that journey will take place here at the cathedral.
Also today, the first wake for one of the victims. 29-year-old Krystle Campbell will be laid to rest tomorrow as her family and friends continue their grieving process. Friday, Boston was on lockdown, yesterday the city came back to life.
The epicenter, if you will, was Fenway Park, this is one of America's grand old baseball stadiums and yesterday, it felt more like a cathedral. There was a pregame ceremony to honor the victims, survivors and first responders.
Also one of the highlights during the eighth inning, Neil Diamond took the field to lead the crowd in his song "Sweet Caroline"
Red Sox fans have been singing that song in the eighth inning of every home game since 2002. This week, Diamond's song became America's song.
George I've got to tell you, during that game, there were several chicken-skinned moments.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I bet there were.
PITTS: During that pre-game ceremony we could see people standing and cheering and yes, crying. As one fan told us, quote, we can finally breathe again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Byron thanks very much.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And we're joined now in "This Week" exclusive by Boston Mayor Tom Menino. Mayor, thank you so much for joining us this morning. What an extraordinary week it has been. You've been mayor for 20 years. I know you've never seen a week like this. It actually began for you in the hospital.
How are you holding up?
MENINO: George, it was a week that started with tragedy and ended up with good results. But let tell you out of this whole thing, I want to offer (ph) to the families of victims, our hearts go out to them. But the city has never come together as strong as it is today.
What came out of that was people coming together. The night we made the arrest, parties in the streets all over the city. Spontaneous events happening all over. American flags singing "God Bless America." What a great night it was after the five or six days of real fear in the city of Boston.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And what more can you tell us about the investigation right now? From what you have been able to learn from your police, FBI and other sources, do you believe that these two brothers acted alone?
MENINO: All of the information that I have they acted alone, these two individuals, the brothers. The older brother's dead now. We have the second one at Beth Israel Hospital in very serious condition. And we don't know if we'll ever be able to question the individual.
STEPHANOPOULOS: When do you expect charges to be filed? And do you expect him to face the death penalty? There is no death penalty in Massachusetts, but of course he could face federal charges.
MENINO: I hope that the U.S. attorney, Carmen Ortiz, takes him on the federal side and throws the book at him. These two individuals held this whole city hostage for five days. They should not do that -- that's what these terrorist events want to do, hold the city hostage and stop the economy of the city. Look at with what happened on Friday, the whole city was on lockdown, no businesses open, nobody was leaving their homes. There was not business being held at all.
And that's what these events are about, stopping the economy of America. And we have got to stop that. We have got to move forward. We're a much stronger city than what we want to be. We'll be even better as we move forward.
And it just frustrates me that we have these events going on in our country today. And Americans have to wake up. We got fear of terrorism. Our lives are changed forever. We have to work hard on these issues.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let me ask you more about that lockdown. Because some have suggested that it was an overreaction to lock down the city, was actually giving the terrorists exactly what they wanted. Are you convinced it was necessary?
MENINO: At the time the decision was made, it sure was. I had information that there was other things going on during the decision that was made. And I agree with that decision at the time, because of the information we had. And at that time, we found a pipe bomb in another location in the city of Boston, another individual was taken into custody in another location. So there was many activities going on. And so to bring it to -- so we can have a clarity of this situation, we brought people together and said, okay, folks, please work with us.
Let me just tell you, Boston did a great job that day. Nobody went on the streets. Boston was on lockdown. But it was for the benefit and public safety of the individuals.