'This Week' Transcript: Sen. Marco Rubio
— -- Rush transcript for "This Week" on December 21, 2014. This may contain errors and will be updated.
ANNOUNCER: On ABC's This Week, breaking news, assassination. Two New York City police officers killed in an ambush. The gunmen's chilling last message and a shocking allegation from police.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: That blood on the hands starts in the office of the mayor.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: Sony hack attack: new details on the federal investigation. How will the president respond? And after all the outrage, will Sony now release the film that started all of this?
Historic breakthrough: the firestorm over that major shift on Cuba and the new battle brewing between GOP heavyweights Marco Rubio and Rand Paul. This Morning, Senator Rubio is here.
And, home for the holidays, giving veterans a brand new start.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This is incredible.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, This Week with George Stephanopoulos begins now.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: And we start with that breaking news, the cold-blooded execution of two New York City police officers shot to death as suicidal gunman bent on revenge for killings by police.
The assassination immediately condemned by President Obama and the attorney general, joining a fierce reaction from police in an atmosphere already so highly charged after Ferguson and Staten Island.
ABC's Lindsey Davis is on the scene in Brooklyn. Good morning, Lindsey.
LINDSEY DAVIS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Good morning, George. Police are calling this murder even though the suspect in this case will never have his day in court.
And two police agencies are saying New York's mayor has blood on his hands.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS: Last night, officials put the ambush of two New York City police officers here in stark terms.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: They were quite simply assassinated -- targeted for their uniform.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: These officers were shot execution style.
DAVIS: According to the NYPD, officers Wenjian Liu and Rafael Ramos were sitting in their marked patrol car in Brooklyn when 28-year-old Ismaaiyl Brinsley walked up to their vehicle and opened fire.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Shots fired.
DAVIS: Striking both officers in the head at point-blank range.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Get on the floor.
DAVIS: SWAT teams chased the suspect to a nearby subway station. This dramatic video capturing the chaos before he reportedly shot himself in the head.
Police say it all began at 5:45 a.m. Saturday near Baltimore where Brinsley allegedly shot and wounded his ex-girlfriend before leaving this ominous threat of social media, "I'm putting wings on pigs today. They take one of ours, let's take two of theirs," adding, "RIP Eric Garner and RIP Mike Brown," two black men killed by police that have sparked nationwide protests.
At 2:10 p.m. pings from Brinsley's phone alerted Baltimore police he had made it to Brooklyn. They tried to warn the NYPD of the threat, but that warning never made it to the two officers.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Some of the postings, which I understand that are out there would seem to indicate that he had a very strong bias against police officers.
BILL DE BLASIO, MAYOR OF NEW YORK CITY: When a police officer is murdered, it tears at the foundation of our society. It is an at tack on all of us.
DAVIS: But the mayor also taking heat. Former New York Governor George Pataki tweeting, "these barbaric acts sadly are a predictable outcome of divisive anti-cop rhetoric of Eric Holder and Mayor de Blasio."
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: It cannot be tolerated. That blood on the hands starts on the steps of City Hall in the office of the mayor.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
DAVIS: NYPD officers even turned their backs on the mayor as he walked into last night's press conference. So far, no response just yet from the mayor to his -- George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Lindsey, thanks.
We're joined now by Ray Kelly, the longest serving commissioner of New York police and New York congressman Gregory Meeks. Welcome to you both.
And Commissioner Kelly, let me begin with you. The anger of the police so palpable right now. Is if fair of them, though, to blame the mayor?
RAY KELLY, FRM. NEW YORK CITY POLICE COMMISSIONER: Obviously, there's a lot of emotion involved when two police officers are killed. I think when the mayor made statements about that he had to train his son to be -- his son who is biracial -- to be careful when he's dealing with the police, I think that set off this latest firestorm.
And quite frankly, the mayor ran an anti-police campaign last year when he ran for mayor...
STEPHANOPOULOS: You're talking about his opposition to Stop and Frisk. Is that what you think was anti-police?
KELLY: Well, I think, yes, a lot of the rhetoric was -- at a time when the police had a 70 percent approval rating. Obviously, that's not the case now during the de Blasio administration.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, if you were commissioner right now, what would you say to your officers?
KELLY: Well, you say to your officers do your job, do what you're sworn to do. And I think that's exactly what officers will do. In my experience, in 45 years in policing, I've never seen officers back off from their sworn duties. I think there's some concern that there will be a reduction or a diminishment of police services. I don't see that happening.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman, what about this criticism of the mayor, of the attorney general, what should they be doing right now?
REP. GREGORY MEEKS, (D) NEW YORK: Well, I think they are doing what they should be doing. They've been trying all along to bring the city together. This heinous act is, as the mayor said, it tears away at the fabric of our society. And so we stand with the police department.
No one has ever given up on the police department or said we were anti-police department. What we were crying for was to saying how African-Americans feel, how their communities are policed and want the justice system to work for everyone.
But, you know, everybody that was involved -- we're trying to bring people together. And you heard from the families of Michael Brown and Mr. Garner saying that they did not want any violence at all in any of the demonstrations and definitely this. They've stated very loudly and very clearly how shocked and how opposed they are to the violence and to this assassination of police officers that took place yesterday.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Commissioner, the concern now could be copy cats out there as well. And there's this email circulating among the police department right now among all the police last night saying, quote, "we have become a war-time police department. We will act accordingly," they're talking about sending two units now out to every single phone call. Is that's what's going to happen here? And what does it mean to be on a war-time footing?
KELLY: Well, I think cooler heads will prevail. As I said, there was a lot of emotion last night. I think the officers will do their job. I think commissioner will engage with the union and talk about these specifics.
But, you may see a little of that early on here in terms of additional units going to assignments, but I think that'll quiet down pretty quickly.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Quiet down over time. But as you know, Congressman Meeks, there's been a national debate over whether police forces have become too militarized in the wake of this. Clearly, police are going to want to feel protected in the wake of this execution.
MEEKS: And we want the police to be protected. We don't want mayhem going on in the communities. And I think that the tone that the mayor is trying to set is a tone that brings people together. And some unfortunate comments I think from Mr. Lynch, because we don't need to divide and separate.
Even during the heart of the demonstrations, folks were saying that we don't -- we believe that 97, 98, 99 percent of the police officers do their job every day. And if you find one, we want to make sure that one justice is rendered there.
And so I hope that the police department and Mr. Lynch -- I think that the commissioner has been doing the right thing, Commissioner Bratton also.
Let's try to bring this city together. We do not need to -- and this country, because it wasn't just a New York City issue, this has been a national issue that we've got to focus on. And I think that that's tremendously important to do.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It is a national issue.
What should the president do now?
KELLY: Well, I think the president is the ultimate healer and one who brings people together. And I think that's what he's trying to do and his statements are along those lines.
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, thank you both very much.
We're going to move now to those fast moving developments in the hack attack on Sony. Federal investigators tracking down the North Koreans behind it. President Obama says he's considering putting North Korea back on the terrorism watch list. And Sony firing back at the president's criticism. Here's ABC's senior justice correspondent Pierre Thomas.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
PIERRE THOMAS, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: This morning, the FBI investigation heating up: agents chasing down the names of the North Korean officials who allegedly ordered the cyber attack. One option, charging them as common criminals. Arresting them could prove impossible, but the president vowed there would be a response.
BARACK OBAMA, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: They caused a lot of damage. We will respond. We will respond proportionally. And we'll respond in a place and time and manner that we choose.
THOMAS: It all began a month ago. The group calling itself Guardians of Peace demanded Sony scrap the release of The Interview, a comedy depicting the assassination of North Korea's dictator.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Want to go kill Kim Jong un?
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Totally.
THOMAS: Soon, Sony was hit with what the FBI called a devastating computer network attack.
It was unprecedented, taking computer stations offline, deleting files and posting the company's strategic plans.
Then it got worse, the hackers threatened moviegoers. Sony canceled the New York premiere. Theater chains said they wouldn't show it. And Sony pulled the plug. Game. Set. Match. The hackers won.
The president called out Sony.
OBAMA: I think they made a mistake. I wish they had spoken to me first. I would have told them do not get into a pattern in which you are intimidated by these kinds of criminal attacks.
THOMAS: But Sony's CEO blamed movie theater chains for not showing it. He said he had no choice.
MICHAEL LYNTON, CEO, SONY PICTURES ENTERTAINMENT: We have not caved. We have always had every desire to have the American public see this movie.
THOMAS: That might spark another cyber attack from the hackers who say they'll retaliate if the film is ever released.
The response could come from the elite spy unit called Bureau 121, cyber warriors recruited as children and trained at this military school.
The U.S. may consider new sanctions against North Korea and is asking the Chinese government, one of North Korea's only allies, to use its influence.
(END VIDEO TAPE)
THOMAS: The irony is that the request for China's help came only several months after the Justice Department charged several Chinese military officials with hacking U.S. companies -- George, this is a challenging situation.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Yes, it is a brand new world.
OK, Pierre, we're going to dig into it now with our experts.
Major General Bret Williams, former director of operations for U.S. Cyber Command, Fran Townsend, former White House Homeland Security director and counter-terrorism adviser, now with CNN. Thor Halvorssen, president and founder of the Human Rights Foundation. And Mitch Singer, former chief digital strategy officer for Sony.
And Mitch, let me begin with you.
You've been pretty outspoken defending Sony.
How would you response to the president's critique.
And Mitch, let me begin with you.
You've been pretty outspoken defending Sony.
How would you response to the president's critique?
MITCH SINGER, FORMER CHIEF DIGITAL STRATEGY OFFICER, SONY: We'll look, I mean I -- we all certainly agree with the president, the idea that, you know, a foreign nation reached across the Pacific and actually did this to us is frightening -- is frightening.
And -- but I think -- I think, in the end, if you really think about it, you know, blaming a victim here -- and there's no question that Sony was the victim of unprecedented cyber extortion attack here with, you know, you said it in the setup, with hard drives basically wiped out, private confidential information exposed, employees' private data, medical records, more threatened.
I mean and instead of sitting here and blaming the victim here, I think what we should really be looking at is what's the government going to do here?
And I was -- I've been writing about it because I wanted to change the focus away from Sony Pictures or away from any company that would suffer this type of attack.
You know, when I think of the government's obligation here to, you know, provide common defense and general welfare of the people in companies that do business on the soil, I'd like to focus there. I'd like to see some tangible public policy solutions come out of all of this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk to a former...
SINGER: I'd like to see some private and public, you know, collaboration here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's talk to a former governor of...
SINGER: You know, if anything...
STEPHANOPOULOS: How -- let me...
SINGER: -- making...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- let me move on from there right now, because I want to bring up the question that you raised.
SINGER: Sorry.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Major General Bret Williams, you know, you headed cyber command. If you were in that job right now, the president would come to you and say, what can we do?
What's the answer?
MAJOR GENERAL BRET WILLIAMS, FORMER DIRECTOR OF OPERATIONS, U.S. CYBER COMMAND: And just for clarity, I was the director of operations at cyber command and I -- I see us being challenged on three fronts, if you will.
Number one, I think our ability to understand how we integrate cyber into our national security apparatus, how do we use cyber to exercise the elements of power, diplomatic information, military, economic, etc. Is still developing.
Number two, that's a hard target. North Korea doesn't rely on cyberspace in the same way the United States does, either for national security or economics. And they aren't as connected. And if they aren't as connected, it's much harder to get in.
And then number three, we -- we play by the rules. So anything we do has to account for things like sovereignty. If I change a 1 to a 0 on a hard drive, have I violated somebody's sovereignty?
If I'm asked to go in and shut off the power to a military facility, I've got to guarantee you that it's not going to impact the hospital or the bank.
And so it complicates our problem, but that's what they're doing at Cyber Command right now, is they're developing options for the president that can be rolled up within all of the elements of national power for (INAUDIBLE)...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Fran, you would be part of that process, as well.
What would you do?
FRAN TOWNSEND, FORMER WHITE HOUSE HOMELAND SECURITY DIRECTOR AND COUNTER-TERRORISM ADVISER: That's right.
Well, look, there's a range of things. I think what you heard -- hearing from the general is, one, the offensive cyber piece. But there's also defensive. You can block them. And that's exactly what the administration has asked of the Chinese. We need the Chinese help, because all of their Internet connections, limited as they are (INAUDIBLE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: But they've been bad actors here, too.
TOWNSEND: That's exactly right, George. And that's the problem. It's not clear that the Chinese will help us here.
You also have, right, adding them to the terror list, financial sanctions. There's this bank account in Macau that the elite use that they really don't want you to touch.
And so there's a -- there's a range of things, including counter-propaganda, right?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, and that's what I want to talk to Thor Halvorssen about, because you're head of the Human Rights Foundation.
And you've talked about the idea of actually finding a way to get the film into (INAUDIBLE) North Korea, dropping it in on these little USB drives.
THOR HALVORSSEN, PRESIDENT AND FOUNDER, HUMAN RIGHTS FOUNDATION: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Would that really work?
HALVORSSEN: Well, George, we -- we've been doing this for some time and our partners in North Korea -- in South Korea at the border have also been doing it. They're mostly North Korean defectors.
They know it works because many of them came to the South -- to South Korea, escaped North Korea through China, as a result of receiving some of this material.
And North Korea has no Internet connects whatsoever. North Korea, it's the Hermit Kingdom. They try and keep information tightly locked. It's why this film is so dangerous to them, because they perceive the Kims as a God. And a film like this, which would -- you've got that idea flies in the face of that, so that they're terrified of any information that...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thor, explain that a little bit more. I've seen the movie. I did -- I thought it was pretty funny, I've got to tell you the truth. And it did -- it did, you know, demystify Kim in...
HALVORSSEN: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- in so many ways, mocked Kim.
Would that really have an effect on the North Korea (INAUDIBLE)?
HALVORSSEN: Absolutely. In fact, there was a young lady that -- she's now working in our office here in New York. She saw "Titanic" as a child. And "Titanic" changed her life.
You'd say well, why?
STEPHANOPOULOS: The North Korean woman?
HALVORSSEN: A North Korean. North Korea. When she was a teenager. This movie she saw that a man was willing to die for a woman for love. This, to her, was completely alien. That was her a-ha moment.
All of these things are dangerous for the regime because they produce a-ha moments in people who've been living under propaganda for so long.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Let me take that to Mitch Singer.
Why shouldn't Sony just release this online then?
SINGER: Well, you know, it's easy -- it's easy for us to, again, talk to Sony about what they should or they shouldn't do in connection with this -- with this film. And the bottom -- the bottom line, George, on this is that it's not us, it's not up to us or the press or the president to actually tell Sony what to do here.
STEPHANOPOULOS: No, but I'm asking...
(CROSSTALK)
SINGER: -- trying to survive and make...
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- Sony's responsibility?
SINGER: They're trying -- the -- their responsibility is to continue producing great movies in the future. That's their responsibility. And right now, their responsibility is to get through this and con -- and survive as a -- as a company.
And we're putting too much emphasis on -- on requiring that a single company here, like it's their fault that they didn't stand up to...
STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, let -- let me...
SINGER: -- to terrorism here. That's too much of a burden to put on a victim here...
TOWNSEND: George, there's an opportunity...
SINGER: -- of a crime.
TOWNSEND: -- here for the president to show real leadership, right. Remember, post-9/11, there was the -- that George Bush was is on the pile and takes a microphone, well, the president -- look, you could have it -- this may not be the movie, right, it's the satirical -- a satirical movie. But we could all come together not over the movie, but over the principle of freedom of expression.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So hold a screening at the White House.
TOWNSEND: That's exact -- hold a screening at the White House...
(CROSSTALK)
TOWNSEND: I -- I held a screening --
(CROSSTALK)
TOWNSEND: -- I'd hold a screening in the middle of Times Square. I'd have a national moment of re--- of this release that is a moment for the country to come together to help Sony to heal and get past this. There will be covert things that the president will do, offensive and defensive cyber operations.
But we need to take the leverage away from North Korea. And one of the ways to do that is to have a national moment about this.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to bring those two questions to -- to General Williams, as well.
Number one, if the president takes these covert actions, we may never know about it, right?
WILLIAMS: That -- that's correct. And I would agree with that maybe the best way to do this.
But I think one of the things we have to take out of this is this is the latest in a series of very serious wake-up calls to us. People can us cyber to do very devastating things. And if a -- as bad as this has been for Sony, imagine something with a similar impact on the energy sector or in a big financial institution.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And that -- that gets to my final question. I was struck by the assistant director of the FBI saying that this could happen to 9 -- this would get through 90 percent of...
WILLIAMS: Absolutely.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- corporations. If you -- if a corporation came you and said what can I do to protect myself, what's the answer?
WILLIAMS: Well, I think the number one thing that we tell you you have to do is you've got to, at the board and the CEO level, take cyber security as serious as you take business operations and financial operations. It's not good enough to go to your CIO and go, are we good to go?
You've got to be able to ask questions and understand the answers.
And the second thing you've got to do is you've got to invest in a defensible architect. We're still trying to defend the Internet that Al Gore and the team built. And it was never designed to be attacked.
We have to move into something that we can actually effectively defend. And investment needs to be there.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thank you all very much.
A great discussion.
Up next, that historic breakthrough with Cuba -- President Obama's big policy shift sparks a debate inside the GOP. Senator Marco Rubio will be here to weigh in on his feud with Rand Paul and the White House race -- will he challenge his mentor, Jeb Bush?
STEPHANOPOULOS: Our closer now at President Obama's historic move this week on Cuba. His decision to reopen diplomatic relations after a break of more than half a century has drawn a sharp response from GOP leaders like Marco Rubio. We're going to hear from him after this report from ABC's Jim Avila who traveled to Havana.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
JIM AVILA, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Cuba has long been the forbidden fruit of the Caribbean, history freeze framed. But this week, President Obama officially ended 50 years of American hostility to the socialist island, proclaiming five decades of isolation a failure.
And Raul Castro over the weekend declaring victory for outlasting isolation.
OBAMA: If he had done the same thing for 50 years and nothing has changed, you should try something different if you want a different outcome.
AVILA: The president conducting 18 months of secret negotiations, orchestrating an historic prisoner swap. Alan Gross, the U.S. government contractor jailed for espionage for five years, and a true spy, a mysterious CIA operative imprisoned for 20 years in exchange for three Cuban agents jailed in the U.S.
Soon, the U.S. will have an actual embassy here in Havana, allowing politicians to talk to each other directly instead of in secret.
Sources tell ABC News, the first State Department official to visit Cuba publicly is scheduled to land in Havana the second week of January followed shortly by the Secretary of State John Kerry.
But critics counter now is the time for the U.S. to step up sanctions against Castro and complain that President Obama did not get enough from Havana.
In Miami, there were small demonstrations against Obama's actions, despite polls that show broad American support for lifting the 53-year-old trade embargo. Even polls in South Florida show support for closer ties.
In Havana, I spoke to tourism students.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We want to go there and Americans can come here.
AVILA: Cuba and the U.S., just 90 miles apart, will again soon act like it.
For This Week, Jim Avila, ABC News, Havana.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Thanks to Jim Avila for that.
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, HOST: We're joined now by Florida Senator Marco Rubio.
Thanks for joining us this morning.
SEN. MARCO RUBIO (R), FLORIDA: Good morning.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You've been so outspoken this week, Senator Rubio, calling the president's decision inexplicable, absurd, disgraceful.
But when you hear those Cubans, those young Cubans say, we want closer ties to the United States, doesn't that give you pause?
RUBIO: I want closer ties with Cuba, as well, but those closer ties have to come about as a result of a policy that will also ultimately lead to freedom.
And that's my problem with what the president's done here. It's not that I simply want to continue to do with what we've been doing. I'm OK with changing policy toward Cuba.
But it has to be a policy change that has a reasonable chance of achieving freedom -- freedom for the Cuban people.
And I just don't think this pol -- no, let me rephrase that. I know that this policy change that the president has now undertaken will not lead to freedom.
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you know that, though, Senator?
What we've seen for the last 50 years is a policy of -- of an embargo, no real ties between the U.S. and Cuba, it hasn't loosened the Castro regime's...
RUBIO: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- hold on the Cuban people at all. And the United States has -- has relations with all kinds of countries that don't meet our democratic standards -- China...
RUBIO: Right.
STEPHANOPOULOS: -- Saudi Arabia, Russia.
RUBIO: That's exactly my point. We have those policies of normalization toward Vietnam, for example, toward China. They're not any more politically free today than they were when that normalization happened. They may have a bigger economy, but their political freedoms, certainly I would not hold up China or Saudi Arabia or Vietnam as examples of political freedom, proving my point, that engagement by itself does not guarantee or even lead to political freedoms.
And that -- the Cuban government controls every aspect of their economy. The whole economy is owned and cooperated by a holding company controlled by Cuban military officials.
They will take more travel, they will take more commerce, they will pocket the vast majority of the money that's generated from it.
And they have already and they intend to follow the model of Vietnam and China, where they can grow their economy, but they don't grow political freedoms. In fact, they repress them.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But -- but wouldn't a the United States Embassy there help further that cause of openness?
You have actually said that the United States Embassy in China could be a direct link to the people of China.
Why can't a U.S. Embassy in Cuba be that same direct link to the people of Cuba?
RUBIO: I hope it would be, but there's two reasons why I believe it won't. The first is we already have an interest section in Havana which is pretty large and it's not allowed to operate. It's consistently harassed. Its diplomats are constantly harassed, including breaking in in the middle of the night to the -- to the facilities where they live. They're not allowed to engage with civil society openly. They're not allowed to travel.
They already operate under significant constrict -- restrictions.
