Trump civil fraud case: Judge fines Trump $354M, says frauds 'shock the conscience'

The managing director of Deutsche Bank, which was Trump's primary lender in the 2010s, testified that it would be impossible for the bank to calculate their client's net worth with mathematical certainty.

"I don't believe that is possible," said Dave Williams, testifying for the defense. "I think an individual's net worth as reported is largely subjective, or subject to the use of estimates."

The assertion bolsters a recurring theme of the defense's case -- that determining the value of Trump's assets was less of a science than an art form.

Williams said that, regardless of what Trump reported, Deutsche Bank made more conservative estimates about the value of his assets.

"I think it's a difference of opinion. We expect clients provide information to be accurate. At the same time, it's not an industry standard that these financial statements are audited," Williams said.

A day after Trump lawyer Chris Kise asserted that the only person who believes the former president committed fraud in his business transactions is New York Attorney General Letitia James, that claim will face a key test over the next two days as Trump's lawyers call four executives from Deutsche Bank, Trump's primary lender at the time of the alleged conduct.

Trump's lawyers claim that the executives will prove that the bank would have still done business with Trump despite his inflated claims about his assets.

"They're skipping over the part where they have to establish that the gains are ill-gotten, meaning that the loans would not have been issued in the first place or that the terms would have been different," Kise said in November during an argument for a directed verdict.

James, however, says that the banks lost millions in potential interest based on Trump's inflated valuations.

Trump Organization Vice President Patrick Birney returned to the witness stand to describe his role preparing Trump's statement of financial condition between 2016 and 2021.

"Every new year, I would just copy and paste the spreadsheet from the year before," Birney said, testifying this time for the defense.

Birney largely testified about the spreadsheets of supporting data he prepared, as well as the supporting data he cited from year to year.

Court was adjourned for the day following Birney's testimony. He is set to return to the witness stand later this week after the court hears from witnesses from Deutsche Bank.

Trump Hotels chief operating officer Mark Hawthorn disputed an August 2023 report from the Trump Organization's independent monitor that said the company continued to provide incomplete information to lenders.

Hawthorn had earlier testified that the monitor never communicated that they "uncovered fraud or any irregularities."

State attorney Andrew Amer confronted Hawthorn with the letter from the Trump Organization's independent monitor Barbara Jones flagging inconsistencies.

"Were you aware that Judge Jones had identified such inconsistencies?" Amer asked.

"Yes," Hawthorn answered -- but said that he stood by his initial statement that the monitor never uncovered fraud, claiming that the flagged issues were consistent with accounting practices.

"Did the monitor accuse the Trump Organization of disseminating false and misleading information?" defense attorney Clifford Robert asked on redirect examination.

"No," Hawthorne said.

Trump defense attorney Chris Kise used the disagreement about the monitor's findings to renew his request to question Jones, which Judge Engoron denied earlier in the afternoon.

"What the monitor thinks is clearly and squarely at issue," Kise said, describing the Trump Organization's issues as "minor accounting discrepancies which happen in a large corporation all the time."

"Every time you talk, there's a campaign speech," Engoron quipped following Kise's lengthy argument.

Engoron ultimately stood by his initial ruling, but said he would allow Kise to present cases, if they exist, supporting the defense's right to call the monitor.

"I will decide what reports mean and what implications there are," Engoron said about the monitor's findings.