Transcript: 'This Week' Economic Debate

With regard to budgeting, I think Claire's right. At least -- remember Vice President Cheney, George, said deficits didn't matter? And they pretty quickly took the largest budget surplus in history and turned it into the largest deficit. Now we have a president who wants to get the deficit down.

I think we need to go through a progression on health care, first, look for ways to -- to economize within the health care system. By just looking at the way we practice medicine in different parts of the country, there's a lot of money to be saved. That's number one.

Secondly, maybe there are some other parts of the budget that we can economize to help pay for some of this. That's why I'm opposing the omnibus, $250 billion over 10 years? That's real money by just tightening our belts for one year.

And then, finally, the issue of revenues may have to be addressed, but I think you have to do that last, not first. And the question is, do we extend with additional tax cuts to the most affluent among us? Perhaps that's something that has to be...

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you said do it last, not first. If you don't have the reserve fund in there, can you really make the upfront investments you need to make in health care, for example, building on what the president did in the stimulus package on information technology?

BAYH: By that, George, I mean, the president was right to put that issue on the table, but I think we as Congress first have to see what else can be done to get the revenue and then only raise the issue of whether you raise taxes last, not first.

STEPHANOPOULOS: What can you and your Republicans colleagues sign on to here?

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'This Week' Transcript: Barack Obama

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SHELBY: Well, I -- I think that what we've got to do is straighten up the economy first. We've got to go to banking. That will help. If we take on all these programs, this country is going to be in one heck of an economic mess.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So put off any discussion of health care this year?

(CROSSTALK)

SHELBY: Well, I think we can discuss it, but how are we going to fund it?

STEPHANOPOULOS: So you're for no -- no revenue increase? The president says he's not going to have the revenue increases until 2011, but you're saying not even debate it now?

SHELBY: Well, I think we're going to debate it. We debate it every day. But we should be careful in what we're doing. Let's do not push this economy and the jobs losses even further down.

STEPHANOPOULOS: How -- how do you address this question, Senator McCaskill, of scale -- and both Mr. Donohue and Senator Shelby have talked about -- and -- and priorities? You say the president didn't choose to put himself in this position, but is it -- is it appropriate at this point to scale back and say, "First things first. Let's focus on the banks. Let's focus on this job situation"?

MCCASKILL: I think the American people fundamentally understand that he's focusing on the economy first and foremost. I think there is some confusion. You know, things happen quickly. Obviously, the TARP situation was an emergency and it was everyone -- frankly, it was a remarkable moment when I saw the candidates for both parties come together on that, realizing we had a crisis of liquidity that -- and, you know, I think he's going to continue to focus on the economy.

On the other hand, George, as -- as Evan said, he's a great communicator. And I think the American people know that if we keep delaying the health care discussion, if we keep delaying the cap-and- trade discussion and -- and the discussion about our environment and global warming, that that is a very, very bad thing for our grandchildren. And, also, we have to keep focused on deficit reduction.

But what you're seeing is a president that's not afraid to take on all these issues that he knows the American people want reform, they want reform on this. So it's tough. We've got to communicate clearly. We've got to make sure that we bring the American people with us, but I think we've got the right communicator to do it.

BAYH: He's got to try and do two things simultaneously, George, first, be an idealist, look at the problems that face the country and propose bold changes to deal with those. He's doing that. But at the end of the day, he also has to be a pragmatist, and you can't insist on more than the system can deliver, although you push for all that it can deliver.

And my sense of this president is that he's a very practical person. He wants results. And at the end of the day, that's what we'll deliver.

SHELBY: I think we have to be careful, not overload the economy. Our thrust should be turning the economy around, and we do that through banks, getting people back to work.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Another issue that's going to come up before the end of this year -- and we only have a couple of minutes left -- Mr. Donohue, you're going to spend about $10 million, I've read, to try to defeat this Employee Free Choice Act, which would give union -- unions the ability to organize at a plant if they could a majority of the people at the plant to sign up.

And, Senator McCaskill, let me bring you in on this. Is there anything you can say, you believe, right now, that'll convince Mr. Donohue to back off that? And do you have the votes to get this done this year?

MCCASKILL: I'm not sure that we have the votes, and I have no hope of backing Mr. Donohue off. I would say that I think it would be fair that we have a secret ballot for decertification of unions. Right now, businesses can go with a card check.

There is no secret ballot to get rid of a union, but there is a requirement of -- of that for people to be able to organize. And to me, that seems unfair. Let's -- let's -- what's good for the goose is good for the gander. Let's put people on a level playing field and have both businesses have to have a secret ballot to decertify. Until they do that, I'm not sure they've got a lot of room to complaint.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You get the last word.

DONOHUE: That is another -- the loss of the secret ballot and the 16 other issues that labor unions want is another weight on this economy. What we need is a defibrillator that shocks this economy back into private -- positive action.

This president, this Congress, and the business community have to talk about positive things and a bright future. We need to stop letting everybody watch the president and all of us talk this economy into the can. Watch the market. The market goes down; liquidity goes down. We have a real challenge here, and we ought to seize it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: I'm afraid that's all we have time for today. Sorry, Senator. Thank you all very much for a great discussion.

END