'This Week' Transcript: Rep. Mike Rogers and Sen. Mark Udall

So I think this is not the holy grail of reports, but I do think it crossed a very important milestone in saying, hey, no scandal, no law-breaking, now let's just have an honest debate about where we think we ought to go in trying to stop terrorists from blowing up American citizens here in the United States.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Chairman, thank you for your time this morning. Have a good Christmas.

ROGERS: Thanks, George. Thank you. You as well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Let's get a response now from Senator Mark Udall, senior Democrat of the Senate Intelligence Committee. Senator, thank you for joining us this morning. You just heard Chairman Rogers right there, he says he's not ready to sign on to this idea of sending the phone records, having them stay with private phone companies rather than having the federal government collect them. Your response?

UDALL: The arguments for the status quo, George, fell apart this week in Washington. I do find it interesting that Chairman Rogers, whom I respect, (inaudible) my work, when the presidential panel agrees with his point of view, he says it's a great panel. When it doesn't agree, then he says, well, it's manned by three law professors, as if those law professors don't have an understanding of the constitutionality of what we've been doing.

I would point out that the panel was actually manned by people who are highly respected, who have deep experience in the role of intelligence and surveillance and national security.

I get up every day, George, as a member of the Intelligence Committee and Armed Services Committee, to do two things. Protect the American people and protect the Bill of Rights.

The NSA is overreached. We need to quickly move to adopt the 46 recommendations of the president's panel.

STEPHANOPOULOS: All 46?

UDALL: And Judge -- I think we need to look at all 46 -- I'm still studying the report myself. But there are many, many important reforms. It's time on to have real reform, not a veneer of reform. You know why? Because we have got to rebuild the American people's trust in our intelligence committee so we can be safe, so we can meet the threats that are all over the world. But we don't do that by bulk data collection that violates the privacy of Americans, that's unconstitutional, and has shown to not be effective.

STEPHANOPOULOS: So, you heard Chairman Rogers about the constitutionality as well, he says, what is it, 16 other judges have said that the program is constitutional, and have consistently approved it.

UDALL: It will wind its way through the courts. But it's hard for me to believe and it's hard for lots of Americans to believe with whom I talk that these general warrants, if you will, and orders to collect every day, tens of millions Americans' phone records, is somehow unconstitutional. It does not fit the standard in the Fourth Amendment of unreasonable search and seizure. You have to have probable cause -- by the way, these are innocent Americans, and I would counter Chairman Rogers' point. This is an invasion of privacy. If you take the business records of every American, of all of our phone calls, you can get a pretty good idea of what people are doing, based on when they call, who they call, from where they call.

(CROSSTALK)

STEPHANOPOULOS: Even though the panel has said that there's no abuse of this program.

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