TRANSCRIPT: Bob Woodward Talks to ABC's Diane Sawyer About 'Obama's Wars'


On the troop level recommendation for the Afghan strategy review, General Jones thought 20,000 should be it. He typed out an memo, put it in his computer, it never got -- he never gave it or showed it to the president. Here's the national security -- can you imagine Henry Kissinger holding back his opinion?

SAWYER: Not marching right into the office.

Former Secretary of State General Colin Powell came in as an unofficial -- what? -- wise man? What did he say about all this?

WOODWARD: Right at the moment in the Afghan strategy review, Obama called him in and said, you know, what do you think. And here is Powell -- former secretary of state, former chairman of the joint chiefs, had been in the Army 35 years and he -- and he told Obama, he said, look, they -- just because the military is unanimous doesn't mean they're right. You are commander in chief, and he said interestingly and maybe ominously, there are other generals, don't get rolled. Don't do it just because they say. It doesn't mean -- you're the boss, you're the decider here.

SAWYER: They have a particular relationship that you can name?

WOODWARD: They talk frequently. And you know this -- if you were president and ad to make a big decision, Colin Powell would be one of those people that I think anyone, republican or democrat, would call on.

SAWYER: You do have a heart-pounding description of a brand new president arriving in office and he gets the briefing. He already knew somewhat, because his inauguration was threatened, would be threatened, but he gets the briefing about the constellation of terror in the world trying to make its way to the United States.

WOODWARD: It's a cold shower. To imagine the high of being elected on that Tuesday and they come in two days later and say, by the way, here's -- here are the secrets, and one of the secrets is Pakistan. We're attacking with -- in a top secret, covert operation the safe havens in Pakistan, but Pakistan is living a lie. And this is a theme throughout the whole Obama presidency --

SAWYER: Is this presidency…

WOODWARD: -- how do you get control of Pakistan.

SAWYER: --- really ready to go in? Should there be a terrorist who comes to this united -- to the United States, trained in Pakistan, ready to go in and take out 150 sites as you report here, 150 training sites?

WOODWARD: What we have -- and this is -- this is sensitive, to say the least, that -- you know, what do we do when Jones and Panetta go to see the Pakistanis? You've got all this -- this cascade of threats. Even the terrorist group LET that did Mumbai -- remember Mumbai? Held a giant city hostage for 60 hours. That group is trying to attack in the United States.

They list for the Pakistanis our intelligence. And General Jones says to President Zardari, look, if there is a terrorist attack in the United States that is postmarked Pakistan, where somebody was trained or got assistance in Pakistan, the president would not have a choice. And he said there's political reality in Pakistan...

SAWYER: And this is new? This is a new Obama administration protocol? They will do this?

WOODWARD: Well, they have the plan. It's up to the president. But if it happens, what General Jones tells the Pakistanis is -- there's political reality in Pakistan. There's political reality in the United States. Something like this happened, and the president would not have a choice.

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