'This Week' Transcript 1-7-24: House Speaker Emerita Nancy Pelosi & Rep. Tony Gonzales
This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, January 7.
A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, January 7, 2024 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.
ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC "THIS WEEK" ANCHOR: Call to action.
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We must be clear, democracy's on the ballot.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Three years after the January 6th riot, President Biden issues a plea to America.
BIDEN: This is not rhetorical, academic, or hypothetical. And it's what the 2024 election is all about.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sources describe stunning new details about key witness testimony in Donald Trump's federal election case, and what unfolded at the White House as the Capitol was attacked and both Republicans and Democrats faced threats from the mob.
REP. NANCY PELOSI, HOUSE SPEAKER EMERITA & (D) CALIFORNIA: It's just horrendous. And all at the instigation of the president of the United States.
STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, exclusive reporting from chief Washington correspondent Jon Karl, and former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi responds live.
Campaign homestretch.
RON DESANTIS, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Iowa starts it off. I'm here to tell you, the choice, I think, is clear.
NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: It is time to move past President Trump, and it is time to start focusing on how to strengthen America.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican contenders sprint to the finish line in Iowa, and the Supreme Court takes up a key ballot challenge, as Donald Trump maintains his commanding lead.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The polls are showing we're going to win by a lot.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Rachel Scott is on the campaign trail, plus analysis from our powerhouse roundtable.
And immigration crisis.
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): Every state in America is now a border state.
STEPHANOPOULOS: House Republicans travel to the southern border as record crossings strain American cities.
KARINE JEAN-PIERRE, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: And they continue to obstruct the president wanting to move forward with the supplemental that includes border security.
STEPHANOPOULOS: We'll speak with Republican Congressman Tony Gonzales of Texas.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it’s THIS WEEK. Here now, George Stephanopoulos.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Good morning, and welcome to THIS WEEK.
As we mark three years since the January 6th insurrection, the 2024 election is shaping up to be a referendum on what happened that day and what it means for the future of our democracy. That was the theme of President Biden's first campaign speech Friday as he blasted Donald Trump for January 6th.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Trump did nothing. It was among the worst derelictions of duty by a president in American history. An attempt to overturn a free and fair election by force and violence.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And in Iowa this weekend, Trump responded with repeated lies about the 2020 election and calls to free the convicted January 6th rioters whom he calls hostages. This morning we have exclusive, new reporting on what Trump was doing at the White House on January 6th as the rioters surged through the Capitol.
Chief Washington correspondent Jon Karl starts us off.
Good morning, Jon.
JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WASHINGTON CORRESPONDENT & "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: Good morning, George.
Donald Trump's closest advisers in the White House have provided Jack Smith's team with an extraordinarily detailed description of what Trump was doing, and what he was refusing to do as the U.S. Capitol came under attack. These are not Trump's critics. These are some of his most trusted aides. And according to sources familiar with the investigation, some of the most vivid and damning descriptions have come from Trump's longtime employee and current adviser, Dan Scavino.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (voice over): Dan Scavino has known Donald Trump since he was 15 years old. He worked for him for more than three decades starting as his golf caddy. Nobody inside the White House, outside of family, had a closer relationship with him.
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: The great Dan Scavino, most powerful man in politics.
KARL (voice over): Scavino, who helped manage Trump's Twitter, Instagram and Facebook accounts is also one of just a handful of people who were with Trump on January 6th as the attack on the Capitol was unfolding. The January 6th Committee wanted to talk to him, but he defied their subpoena. After a court battle, he did finally talk to special council Jack Smith's team of investigators.
Scavino’s outside was just outside the Oval Office, and sources familiar with the investigation tell ABC News, Scavino told investigators he went in to see Trump as soon as he saw the violence had broken out at the Capitol. And he described Trump sitting in his small dining room next to the Oval Office, his arms folded, staring at the television, watching live coverage of the attack on Fox News.
Trump was angry, Scavino told investigators, according to the sources, saying, the election had been stolen from him, and that his supporters were, quote, “angry on his behalf.”
As has been described by the January 6th Committee report, other advisers came in to see Trump as well, including White House lawyers, Chief of Staff Mark Meadows, and eventually his daughter, Ivanka Trump, all urging him to make some kind of statement telling his supporters to leave the Capitol. The sources say Scavino described Trump as non-responsive and his demeanor as, quote, “very unsettling” as he continued staring at the TV.
Soon he told investigators, all of the advisers left the room leaving Trump alone.
UNIDENTIFIED MALE: And we’ll stand in recess until the call of the chair.
KARL (voice over): It was while Trump was alone watching television that the Senate was forced to adjourn with rioters approaching. And Vice President Mike Pence rushed to a secure location beneath the Capitol just as Trump tweeted, quote, “Mike Pence didn't have the courage to do what should have been done to protect our country. When advisers told Trump the tweet sent the wrong message, Trump, one of the witnesses told investigators, said, quote, “but it's true.”
The tweet contributed to the anger of the crowd. Some of the rioters chanting, "hang Mike Pence."
CROWD: Hang Mike Pence. Hang Mike Pence.
KARL (voice over): According to the sources, another White House aide, Nick Luna, told investigators that when he informed Trump that Pence had to be evacuated to a secure location because of the violence, Trump responded, quote, “so what?,” which the sources say Luna believed to show Trump was willing to let harm come to his loyal vice president. That's consistent with what Trump told me just a couple of months later about the threats to Pence.
Were you worried about him during that siege? Were you worried about his safety?
DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT (voice over): No, I thought he was well protected and I – I had heard that he was in good shape. No, because I had heard he was in very good shape. But – but, no, I think --
KARL (voice over): Because you heard those chants, that was terrible. I mean those, you know, the --
TRUMP (voice over): He could have – well, the people were very angry.
KARL (voice over): They were saying “hang Mike Pence.”
TRUMP (voice over): Because it's – it’s common sense, Jon, it's common sense that you're supposed to protect -- how can you -- if you know a vote is fraudulent, right?
KARL (voice over): Yes.
TRUMP (voice over): How can you pass on a fraudulent vote to Congress?
KARL (voice over): Another one of those with Trump, White House lawyer Pat Philbin, told investigators that as Trump was watching the attack on TV, he told his aides, quote, “This is what happens when they try to steal an election.” Sources say Philbin responded, “Mr. President, it doesn't justify this.”
As the riot continued, Scavino told investigators, he said to Trump that the day's events were tarnishing his record as president. Quote, “This is all your legacy here, and there's smoke coming out of the Capitol.”
(END VIDEOTAPE)
KARL (on camera): The Trump campaign is already responding to this exclusive reporting from the ABC News investigative team, giving us a statement saying, quote, “Media fascination with second-hand hearsay shows just how weak the witch hunt against Donald Trump is. Dan Scavino is one of President Trump's longest serving and most loyal allies and his actual testimony shows just how strong Trump is positioned in this case.”
It's important to note, George, the campaign did not dispute what you just heard there from Dan Scavino, that he said on January 6th that the attack would be Trump's legacy, and that there was smoke coming out of the Capitol. In response to that, the campaign told us, “President Trump and Dan Scavino both agreed that it could be part of legacy, but regardless wanted to get it done and did it. There is no dispute over that.”
STEPHANOPOULOS: OK, Jon, let's bring in our reporter who was leading this investigation for our investigative team, Katherine Faulders.
And, Katherine, what we're seeing is how deep Jack Smith has reached into Donald Trump's orbit.
KATHERINE FAULDERS, ABC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: Yes, we are, George, and this could be a fascinating split screen when there's ultimately a trial. You have former President Trump on the campaign trail essentially telling his supporters to reject the results, the reality of the 2020 election and what happened on January 6th. At the very same time, you could have Trump sitting in the federal courthouse in Washington, D.C., just blocks away from the Capitol, potentially sitting across from these witnesses that testified about acts that paved the way for this indictment against Trump.
Now, I think it's also important to point out, George, I've talked to multiple sources close to Trump, close to his legal team. They say that they're essentially going to use what these witnesses said in a bad way, that they're not going to run away from these witnesses, that they’re going to use their testimony as a way to prove that Trump actually believed what he was saying as it related to the election and fraud in the election, for example.
STEPHANOPOULOS: That may not be a fulfilling defense in the end, but it's not just Trump's political allies who are going to be testifying. You also have his former White House lawyer, who have not signed onto the campaign.
FAULDERS: Right. Exactly. His former White House counsel, Pat Cipollone, Cipollone’s deputy, Pat Philbin, two of those top aides who were with the president extensively on January 6th, trying to provided reasoned advice to him, to get him to do the right thing.
Important to point out here that we did hear from Cipollone and Philbin in the congressional investigation, but not as it relates to their conversations directly with the former president, directly with President Trump on that day. We're hearing new details about that. The two of them could also potentially testify at trial as well.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Jon, this all comes, of course, as Donald Trump is still making the 2020 election central to his 2024 campaign.
KARL: Yes, and, George, this is a very important point. According to our sources, Scavino was asked directly whether or not he saw any evidence that there was vote fraud enough to overturn the results inany state. He said no.
Variations of that exact question have been asked by virtually everybody who served Donald Trump at the White House, and under oath, they have said over and over again that none of them saw any evidence that the election was stolen.
They may have said different things publicly, but under oath, they deny any knowledge that the election had significant fraud.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And, of course, one of the big questions. Will the trial actually take place before the election?
Jonathan Karl and Katherine Faulders, thanks very much.
Now, let’s bring in the former House Speaker Nancy Pelosi.
Madam Speaker, thank you for joining us this morning. Happy New Year.
PELOSI: Happy New Year to you.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Of course, you were in the Capitol on January 6th. What's your reaction to this new reporting from the special counsel’s investigation?
PELOSI: Well, George, thank you for the opportunity to speak on this. We didn't realize when I accepted your invitation to be here that this other testimony would be revealed at this time.
What's interesting about it all is that in every case, every piece of this, whether it was our case in terms of the Electoral College, whether it was what happened with the January 6th Committee -- Select Committee, or this testimony now, it's all coming from Republicans. In the select committee, except for maybe the poll workers, and I don't know what party they are, all of the other testimony came from Republicans -- Republican officials, Republican staffers of the president, and now further to that.
So, the -- it's very clear what happened that day. And at that same time from the undisclosed location, Chuck Schumer and Mitch McConnell and I were begging the administration to send the National Guard, to send the National Guard.
We spoke to the army -- the secretary of the army. Well, I don't know. It takes time and I have to talk to my boss about it -- his boss being the acting secretary of defense, (INAUDIBLE) one thing and another.
So, it took hours, hours of what we had seen transpire, hours where we saw people going under the dome that Lincoln built. Lincoln built the dome during the Civil War. People said, don't build the dome, use the steel and the person power, the manpower for the war. And he said, no, I must show our resolve and our strength to build the dome.
And to see the Confederate flag under that dome, to see the disrespect. They’re coming -- a bullet in my head, hanging Pence, and the president being so casual about it.
So, it will be interesting to see how we proceed, but remember this -- whether it was our testimony for the Electoral College case, whether it was what the January 6th Committee put forth, and what you’re hearing today overwhelmingly coming from the Republicans.
STEPHANOPOULOS: You’ve -- you've pointed that out, yet new polls show that with the passage of time, more Republican voters have accepted Donald Trump's lies about that day. They're less likely to say President Biden’s win was legitimate. They're less likely to say Trump bears responsibility. They’re less likely to say that rioters were violent.
How do you explain that, and what can be done about it?
PELOSI: Well, the 28 percent is 28 -- is the 30 percent that believe Trump no matter what. But again, the fact is the narrative on this is becoming clearer and clearer, and whatever those people for whatever their attitudes are to other people, whatever -- whoever they are, God bless them, I wish them well, I wish they would accept the facts and the truth.
But Trump was a president. People believe a president when he speaks.
That's why I was so glad that Joe Biden yesterday at Valley Forge, a bulwark of our strength during the Revolutionary War, where President Washington consolidated the strength of the troops, the unity of the troops, the immunization (ph) of our troops to go forward to win a revolution, and here our president was at that location telling the truth about what happened on January 6th from a president of the United States.
So we just --
STEPHANOPOULOS: You have --
PELOSI: It's a challenge that we have in our country, and it's a reflection of a dis -- we have people who don't want to believe the truth, for whatever attitudes they have otherwise. But again, during this period, this campaign year, it behooves us to speak with respect for all concerns in a unifying way to bring people together.
But there is no way that anybody can think that that assault on the Constitution, on the day of the -- that law says we're supposed to accept the certification of the Electoral College, that Congress, the caucus -- excuse me -- the Congress, the Capitol, the Constitution. It cannot stand. He is not above the law. And it remains for the case -- the courts to settle that. It's not up to us, it's up to the courts to settle that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Of course, you have the trials that could take place with Jack Smith's investigation. You also have the Supreme Court taking up this challenge to President Trump on the 14th Amendment.
Do you believe that Donald Trump engaged in insurrection?
PELOSI: Yes, I think that he engaged in an insurrection. I think that he incited an insurrection. And, again, that he would not stop what was going on. As his own people said, this is your legacy. Smoke coming from the Capitol is your legacy. Yes, I do believe that. And it is a most unfortunate situation.
Our founders knew that we could have a rogue president. They didn't realize that at the same time, we could have a rogue Senate and Congress. I do think that when -- after all this happened, poop on the floor of the Congress, defecation, blood, disrespect for the people who maintain the Capitol, coming after Pence, coming after me and the rest, the great majority of the Republicans in the House voted not to accept the results of the Electoral College.
STEPHANOPOULOS: So, Madam Speaker, if you believe he engaged in insurrection under the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment, you believe he's ineligible to be president?
PELOSI: Those laws – you know, those are up to the states. They have different laws from state to state. I don't think he should ever have been president.
STEPHANOPOULOS: It's the Constitution.
PELOSI: But nonetheless – that -- there's a view of the Constitution in Article 14, Section 3, that he should not be able to run for president.
But that's not the point. The point now is, again, different states have different laws. We don't think in California that it – it applied in our state. That's what the decision was made here.
But, anyway, not to go into that because that's very intricate. What is very clear is that the American people want us to honor our oath to protect and defend the Constitution of the United States. I, you know, being from Baltimore, I’m proud of the national anthem, and in it, it says, proof through the night that our flag was still there. We have to prove through this campaign in the night that our flag is still there, with liberty and justice for all, and not have an acceptance of confederate flags under Lincoln’s dome with a president sitting in the White House doing nothing to stop the violence, to stop the violence. He talks about the big steal as he engages in the big lie.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I want to finally ask you about the situation at the border. We're seeing this surge in border crossings over the last – over the last year. Your successor, Mike Johnson, speaker of the House, brought a delegation of House Republicans down to the border this week – this week, and here's what he had to say.
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
REP. MIKE JOHNSON (R-LA): You couldn’t just reform the broken asylum process and allow this parole system to remain broken. You can't just build the wall without ending catch and release, without restoring remain in Mexico. These are the policies and the provisions that again had stemmed the flow in the previous administration. We know what works. It's not rocket science.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: How do you respond to that? And are you confident a government shutdown over this issue is going to be avoided?
PELOSI: Well, we can't have a government shutdown. Let's be grown-up about how we deal with our responsibilities.
But I will say this, and it was said in your preview here, the president has put forth a proposal in the supplemental to address the concerns at the border. And the Republicans will not allow that to be brought up. They reject his solution to it. We have to be very careful.
When I first met the speaker was right after he made his acceptance speech. I said to him, you quoted Ronald Reagan in your speech. I want to refer you to Ronald Reagan’s last speech as president of the United States. He said, I want to deliver -- communicate a message to a country I love. He talked about the Statue of Liberty and the importance of immigration to our country. So, we have to handle this with care.
We must secure our border. That's for sure. There's no question about that. But we also must honor our responsibilities in terms of asylum and the rest, and the president has that in his proposal. And what they say is, oh, it won't make a difference. No, it will make a difference. Let's get the job done. Let's do it soon. And we certainly are not going to shut down government.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Madam Speaker, thank you for your time this morning.
PELOSI: My pleasure. Thank you. Happy New Year to you and a healthy one too.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Happy New Year. Thank you.
Let's get a Republican's now response from Congressman Tony Gonzales of Texas.
Congressman, Happy New Year to you as well. I want to get to the border, but let's begin with that reporting we led the program with, testimony from Donald Trump's top aides about what happened on January 6th.
You called that one of the darkest and lowest days in American history. What do you make of the new reporting?
REP. TONY GONZALES, (R) TEXAS: Happy New Year, George. Thank you for having me.
I'd first like to start with Perry, Iowa, is certainly on my mind. My heart goes out to that community. Our kids are telling us something, and we need to start listening. I'm of the mindset we can both protect our children in school and the Constitution. It doesn't have to be either/or.
As far as this January 6th new details coming out, you know, I was there, and so, you know, the day before, I sent my family home because I felt they were unsafe. And -- and, George, I spent 20 years in the military. I've been in Iraq and Afghanistan. The morning of January 6th, the -- the smell in the air smelt like chaos, and that's exactly what the day turned out to be.
While -- while the speaker and other members were fleeing the chamber, there were a handful of us that were running to the door and standing by Capitol Police, barricading, making sure that rioters did not enter our chamber.
And I'd say, you know, it felt very contentious there. There was an anger built in our country then, and three years later, that anger has not stopped. There's this division that continues to get fueled. The easiest thing to do in politics is to blame someone else. I think it's time for us as Americans to set aside our differences, and how do we heal this country and bring it back together?
STEPHANOPOULOS: You did rush to the front lines on that day. You also called the rioters "domestic terrorists." But President Trump calls that day not a dark and low day; he calls it a "beautiful day." He also calls those people you called domestic terrorists "hostages" who deserve pardons.
So you've endorsed President Trump. Do you now agree with his belief that January 6th was a beautiful day?
GONZALES: Well, George, Donald Trump wasn't responsible for January 6th. The anger in this -- that was built up by people that no longer believe in the system are what was responsible. And that hasn't changed. More and more people do not believe in the systems. And you've got to -- sometimes you win; sometimes you lose, but you have to believe in our institutions.
I look at it through the lens, that was a dark day, and I never want to see January 6th happen again or something like that, or riots across our country. How do we -- how do we calm everybody down? How do we bring this country together?
I'd also say, in my district, which is 70 -- 42 percent the southern border, 70% Hispanic, people aren't talking about January 6th. They're talking about feeling safe in their homes. They're talking about putting food on the table, keeping their kids safe in school.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But President Trump is talking about January 6th. Again, he is calling it a "beautiful day." He is talking about pardons for those people you call domestic terrorists.
Do you believe those rioters should be pardoned?
GONZALES: Well, they're -- they're certainly not hostages. When I think of a hostage, I think of what happened, you know, Hamas taking the hostages in Israel just three months ago. They're certainly not heroes. You know, they -- they -- they broke the law, and we have to obey our laws. We are a nation of laws, and they have to obey the laws.
I'd understand we never got to the root of why they did that. It was always, kind of, a brush-over, and it immediately went into politics. If we continue to kick the can down the road and not get to the root of the issue of why people are angry, it's going to create more dangers.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But, Congressman, hold on a second. There's a lot of evidence...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: There's a lot -- and part of the reason they were angry is they were fed a lot of lies about the election from the man you now support to be president again.
GONZALES: Well, they felt as if President Biden stole that election, and nothing has changed since then. You know...
STEPHANOPOULOS: But wait. But did President Biden steal...
(CROSSTALK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Did President Biden steal the election?
GONZALES: Of course, not. Of course he didn't steal the -- he is -- he is the president of the United States. But Senator -- Senator Biden was this bipartisan, deal-making individual that everyone thought they were going to get. President Biden has turned out to be much different.
Now I hope that changes, right? We have some very big-ticketed items. This national security package is the first thing that comes to mind. But -- but this is the reason why Americans are angry and upset. And unless we tackle that issue, we're going to see more of the same.
I worry about 9/11, but I also worry about -- think back to the Oklahoma City bombing. I mean, when people are angry, they do desperate things.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But, sir, that -- that anger is being stoked by the man that you have endorsed for president of the United States. That's what I don't understand. You've been very forthright here. You've -- you've called the rioters "domestic terrorists." You've said they're "not hostages." President Trump says they are hostages, says he's going to pardon them. You've called it a "dark day." He calls it a "beautiful day."
I don't understand, given all that, why you've endorsed him for president of the United States.
GONZALES: Well, I think back to the policies when President Trump was -- was in office, and I think back to my district. We did not have the border crisis that we have now. We did not have the humanitarian turmoil. We did not have the chaos.
That's the number one thing. In my district, our lives are turned upside down, and we just want to get back to normal. It's a reason why -- you're seeing the polls say Hispanic -- Hispanic voters are no longer an automatic yes for the Democratic Party.
What I mean by this is we just have to solve people's issues, and the issues in my district is the border's turned upside down. It's the reason why I hosted Speaker Johnson and over 60 members of my colleagues on Wednesday, and it's the reason two days later, I hosted my Democratic colleague Don Davis from North Carolina.
I just want solutions. I think the American public also wants solutions.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't disagree with you. I think we people want solutions, but how can you have solutions when you can’t agree on something as fundamental as the peaceful transfer of power?
GONZALES: I do think that’s fundamental, and I -- but it’s also an election year. So, you’re going to see everybody throw fuel in the fire as fast as they can. And the rhetoric is only going to increase. We're at the beginning of this year. So it's only going to increase as things go on.
I’d much rather see leaders come to the table and go, how do we solve problems? The reason I suspect -- you know, I spoke with one of the Senate negotiators, that we will see a Senate package this week.
And that's encouraging. I want us to see that. I want us to start talking about how we start tackling these national security issues that we have.
The president put forward a $14 billion supplemental package. Well, George, only $2 billion of that is for -- is for security, border security. These are the kind of -- the devils in the details and I think there's an opportunity here for us to protect America, keep Americans safe, but also protect our allies, Israel and Ukraine.
STEPHANOPOULOS: If you want to bring people together, if you want to solve these problems, doesn't the responsibility begin with not endorsing a candidate for president who's spreading lies about the last election?
GONZALES: Endorsements are -- this is what I’ve learned about endorsements. You get -- you get all their enemies and hardly any of their friends. Endorsements are just a piece of paper.
But I do endorse -- I do endorse President Trump, and I think President Trump's policies were very successful, and I look forward to getting back to those policies, and I’m not going to back away from that.
I think -- I think the American public are -- are not happy with the current situation that is happening, and something has to change.
STEPHANOPOULOS: But what he's talked about if he's president again is suspending the Constitution, using the military to suppress protests under the Insurrection Act, pardoning those protesters, and bringing treason charges against the outgoing chairman of the Joint Chiefs of Staff. You're endorsing that as well.
GONZALES: I mean, if you want everything Donald Trump says and does, you want to put on my back, we're going to be here all day because he's a busy man.
I look at it through the lens of as a member of Congress representing nearly half of the border, I can either focus on the shiny object and talk about, you know, what President Trump had for breakfast or what he said last night, or I can try to work with my colleagues on both sides of the aisle to come up with real, tangible border security solutions, and that's what I’ve been doing nonstop.
You know, I -- once again, I welcomed over 60 members, both Democrats and Republicans, to my district last week. I will -- I will host anyone that wants to come to the border and find meaningful solutions.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And I appreciate that. I hardly think that supporting the Constitution is a shiny object, but thank you for your time this morning.
Up next, Rachel Scott reports from Iowa. The caucus is just eight days away. We're back in two minutes.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
NIKKI HALEY, (R) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: We don't need anyone who's getting in their feelings. We don't need anyone that's getting personal about anything. We have a country to save. And that means no more drama. No more taking things personally.
UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Do you think Donald Trump is not pro-life?
GOV. RON DESANTIS, (R-FL) PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Of course not. I mean, when you're saying that pro-life protections are a terrible thing by definition. You are not pro-life.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Nikki Haley and Ron DeSantis at town halls in Iowa this week first votes in that state just eight days away.
Rachel Scott is on the scene. Good morning, Rachel.
RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: George, good morning to you. It is an all-out sprint here in Iowa with Republican candidates making their final arguments to voters but former President Donald Trump's still holding on to that commanding lead here with just days to go.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT (voice-over): With the first major test now just eight days away. Republican candidates hoping to beat former President Donald Trump are running out of time.
DONALD TRUMP, (R) FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Hello, Iowa.
SCOTT (voice-over): As Trump stormed Iowa this weekend, he repeated his false claims about the 2020 election being stolen. Pulled those convicted for offenses on January 6th hostages, praised authoritarian leaders, and repeatedly disparaged those challenging him in court. And he made a bizarre new claim on Saturday seeming to suggest the Civil War could have been avoided through negotiation.
TRUMP: The Civil War was so fascinating. So horrible, was so horrible, but so fascinating.
SCOTT (voice-over): Meanwhile, his challengers have spent months crisscrossing Iowa.
HALEY: We've had a great time in Iowa, we've done over 150 town halls shaking every hand.
DESANTIS: Politicians can say what they want, they can act like they get to decide but you get to decide.
SCOTT (voice-over): But Trump who has spent far less time here is still dominating in the polls. Some 30 points ahead.
(on-camera): Do you see anyone else winning Iowa but Trump?
VALERIE FITCH, IOWA VOTER: No. I do not. No. (INAUDIBLE).
SCOTT (voice-over): Trump narrowly lost the Iowa caucuses in 2016. So, he's pushing his supporters to turn out.
TRUMP: The biggest risk is you say, you know, we're winning by so much darling. Let's stay home and watch television.
SCOTT (voice-over): As the former president is facing 91 criminal charges and has two civil cases in court this month, Florida Governor Ron DeSantis was asked by one voter why he isn't hitting Trump harder.
CHRISTOPHER GARCIA, IOWA VOTER: Why haven't you gone directly after him? Polls, you're down? He's you know up really.
DESANTIS: What do you mean by going directly after?
GARCIA: I mean your -- you're in my viewpoint, you're going pretty soft guy.
SCOTT (on-camera): Is your strategy working? Do you need to draw clear (INAUDIBLE)?
DESANTIS: So, here's the thing. Let's have a debate. Let's get up on the stage. There are a clear contrast. And I think the biggest contrast is just simply I deliver, I promise and then I deliver that's what we've done. Anything I'm saying I'm going to have a plan to actually get done.
SCOTT (voice-over): DeSantis has staked his entire campaign on Iowa. Poll suggests he's now in a battle for second place with Nikki Haley. The former South Carolina governor is betting on a stronger finish in New Hampshire.
HALEY: You know Iowa starts it, you know that you correct it. You know that you continue to go. And then my sweet state of South Carolina brings it home.
SCOTT (voice-over): That didn't go over well in Iowa. Rivals including Trump's seizing on those words.
TRUMP: She said you have to be -- you have to be corrected. You don't have to be corrected. You that -- you are -- you built this country. You built this country.
SCOTT (voice-over): Haley also facing the same questions from voters about not taking on Trump directly.
HALEY: Pro Trump-ers, don't think I love him enough. Anti-Trump-ers, don't think I hate him enough. For those that want me to hit Trump more, I just have not got to do it.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
SCOTT: Trump's legal calendar is now colliding with his 2024 campaign. Sources tell us that the former president is expected to be in a courtroom in both D.C. and New York next week. While the rivals will be out here doing a blitz throughout the state. Of course, the former president's legal defense now the cornerstone of his 2024 campaign, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Rachel, what is it with these Republican candidates in the Civil War?
SCOTT: Yes, the Civil War has now become an emerging topic out here on the campaign trail. You remember just days ago Nikki Haley was asked by a voter, what was the cause of the Civil War. She failed to mention the word “slavery.” Now you have former President Donald Trump insisting that the Civil War could have been solved through negotiation. He is facing some backlash this morning for those words, including from some Republicans, like Congresswoman Liz Cheney, asking, which part could have been negotiated, the slavery part? She is asking how Republican leaders from the party of Lincoln could possibly defend those comments, George.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Rachel Scott, thanks very much.
The roundtable’s up next.
Stay with us.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: The roundtable’s here and ready to go.
We’ll be right back.
(COMMERCIAL BREAK)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Back now with the roundtable, joined by former DNC chair Donna Brazile; Sarah Isgur served at the Justice Department during the Trump administration; Associated Press executive editor Julie Pace; and USA Today's Washington bureau chief Susan Page.
And, Julie, let me begin with you, and the point I made at the top of the program. You look at President Biden's speech at Valley Forge on Friday, the series of speeches from President Trump over the weekend in Iowa, both candidates focusing in on January 6th.
JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: It is really fascinating, three years after January 6th, that this really is the focus. And you can see the different ways in which these two men are trying to cast what happened. And I think we should be very clear. What happened on January 6th was an insurrection. It was an attempt to overthrow a free and fair election.
And Joe Biden feels like pushing that message, leaning into what could happen if Donald Trump were to have a second crack at being president, is really the crux of his campaign. You can see that he's much more motivated when he talks about that issue than almost anything else.
At the same time, Donald Trump actually feels quite confident in leaning into January 6th, feels like he has been able to reshape a narrative. And I think, if you look at the ways in which a lot of Republican officials and a lot of Republican voters now talk about what happened that day, that you can argue that he has been successful in the minds of many people in reshaping what happened.
STEPHANOPOULOS: He clearly has shaped -- shaped opinion, but, Sarah Isgur, I wonder, is that the message that his staff wants out there every day? This seems to come in the riffs that he does off the Teleprompter.
SARAH ISGUR, THE DISPATCH SENIOR EDITOR, FORMER TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Oh, for sure. But Donald Trump is so good at this. He's great at getting attention, and what he needs right now is to, sort of, you know, starve DeSantis, starve Haley of that attention. It's worked incredibly well for the last several months, frankly, since the Bragg indictment from New York.
Joe Biden, on the other hand, I think, has struggled to really find that message that his campaign is going to push forward with. You have mitt Romney, hardly a friend of Donald Trump's, retiring. You know, Mitt Romney's saying, "Look, this is done." He was the only person in history to vote to impeach a person of his own party.
He's like, "January 6th is not a winning political message for Joe Biden." People have formed their opinions on it. He needs to find something else. They've already, sort of, abandoned the "Bidenomics" thing. I think we'll see probably a third message coming from the Biden campaign at some point.
DONNA BRAZILE, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR & FORMER DNC CHAIR: Well, first of all, let me just say that, if democracy is not on the ballot, I don't know what is on the ballot. Eighty-six percent of the voters in 2022 believed it was on the ballot. That's why you saw, you know, Governor Shapiro rise in Pennsylvania and, of course, a new governor in Arizona as well.
So democracy is on the ballot, and no -- no amount of poll, no amount of pontification will stop people from thinking that what happened on January 6th was an attack on the citadel of our democracy, over -- over 140 officers hurt, injured. many of them still suffering trauma. And, yes, this was an attempt to stop the peaceful transfer of power.
So, yes, that's on the ballot. It will be on the ballot in 2024, 2026, 2028, because Donald Trump is poisoning the well once again.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Susan...
ISGUR: All that's true, but they still want to know the price of bacon, you know, like, focus on now.
BRAZILE: Orange juice as well, but guess what? Bread is coming down. Gas is coming down. Inflation has come down. Because Joe Biden is working very hard every day to focus on the American people, and nobody's talking about that.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Susan Page, of course, it's not just about the past. You look at what President Trump is promising to do if he's elected, on these issues?
SUSAN PAGE, USA TODAY WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF: Yeah, promising to do things like pardon people who have been imprisoned now because of their role in January 6th, or acting as a dictator, but only on the first day.
You know, I think, if you look at the last few years, the most single shocking thing, as we're here at the third anniversary and a day of January 6th, is that what we thought was the end of -- of Trump's political career, turned out to be an asset, at least for him in his road to the -- to the primary, in solidifying and energizing his supporters on the -- on the grounds that the election was stolen, something that's been debunked in courts and by investigations.
Trump -- you know, the Biden -- President Biden does not think January 6th is over. He does not think that it's not a good issue for him politically. He thinks it's an issue that Americans care about, and he thinks it's one that will eventually energize them to get to the polls for him. Economy is always an important issue. Some in -- I think the president believes democracy is a better one.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And of course, Julie Pace, the question is what is not so much -- not only whether this solidifies Donald Trump's position among Republicans, but what it means to that small group of voters in the middle who will determine the selection in November?
PACE: And I think to Susan's point, this is where the Biden campaign actually feels like this issue could resonate. They do feel like this is an issue for those persuadable voters who, as we get closer -- I mean, we have to be honest. It's January of 2024. If you are not in Iowa, New Hampshire and South Carolina, you're not deep in this campaign right now, and Donald Trump is really speaking to a specific group of the electorate right now.
The Biden campaign feels as we get deeper into the summer, as we get more of a broader national message going, that those persuadable voters can be won over by reminding people of exactly what happened on January 6th, and what more could happen in a second Trump term.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sarah, is there any stopping Donald Trump in this nomination fight right now, eight days away from Iowa?
ISGUR: I think there is some chance that Haley could pull it out in New Hampshire. I think it's unlikely, but even if she did, you've got that Super Tuesday firewall that's really going to be more of a national election. I mean Trump is just -- he's ahead in the polls, but he's ahead again in getting that attention part.
It's Donald Trump talking about negotiating the Civil War, not signing the "I won't overthrow the American government on the Illinois ballot." Whatever it is, he's able to keep that chum in the water. It prevents voters are from really even hearing from Haley. I don't see a strategy for two weeks that can change the dynamic of this race.
BRAZILE: Well, look, things could still get a little closer now. As you know, with 1,670 precincts, you've got to show up at 7 o'clock, you've got to -- unlike Democrats who have to stand in a corner and say, "I am for," Republicans have a secret ballot. So we don't know, but what we do know is that over half of those voters will be evangelical voters, and if Trump is able to get them to support him the way he wasn't able to consolidate in 2016, he would win. He will win big. But New Hampshire could still be a surprise.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Susan Page, so much of this election is now in the hands of the Supreme Court.
PAGE: Yeah. That's where the campaign is really being waged. That will determine if Trump is on the ballot in a bunch of states, not just the two states that have already tried to push him off the ballot, whether he will face a trial in the spring for his actions on January 6th. So if you think about Nikki Haley and you think about all the millions of dollars (ph) that have been spent and all the campaigning that these candidates are doing, the action in the Supreme Court will be more crucial determining who wins.
STEPHANOPOULOS: And Julie, especially on the issue of -- we'll see what they end up doing on the 14th Amendment. My guess is that they want to find a way not to decide that issue, but probably even more crucial, will they rule in a way that allows the January 6th trial to go forward before the election?
PACE: It's a fascinating question, and when you take these two together, right? The question about the January 6th trial and the 14th Amendment, you find the Supreme Court exactly where John Roberts does not want them to be.
(LAUGH)
PACE: Right in the middle of politics. He has tried desperately over the years to remove the court from politics, pretty unsuccessfully, and now they find themselves having to make two decisions that will really determine the future of this campaign.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Sarah, what's your guess on what the court does here?
ISGUR: I think you'll have the Supreme Court hold that he is not disqualified from being on the ballot. They'll overturn the Colorado Supreme Court.
STEPHANOPOULOS: The question is how will they do it though?
ISGUR: Correct. I think they'll say that in fact the 14th Amendment makes clear it's up to Congress. If Congress can re-qualify someone by a two-thirds vote, there's no timeline on that, which means that as one of the amicus briefs has now pointed out, it's really supposed to be post-elections about holding office, not running for office. And so, I think they'll say it's really Congress' job, the states can't make up their own standard.
Is it -- beyond a reasonable doubt, is it more likely than not, et cetera? What's interesting to me will be whether the Supreme Court goes out of their way in order to get those three -- Kagan, Sotomayor and Jackson votes -- and saying, yes, it was an insurrection and yes, he engaged in it, but it's up to Congress.
STEPHANOPOULOS: I don't see how they can do that, Donna Brazile. If you say he engaged in insurrection, was the question I asked Nancy Pelosi, I don't see how you can escape the plain meaning of the 14th Amendment and say he's qualified to run for office.
BRAZILE: I totally agree with you, George, but I don't have a lot of faith in the Supreme Court as it is now constituted. And as you know, with my experience with Bush v. Gore, I am not going to sit up at night and start whining.
Here's what I do know, Brett Kavanaugh and the Republican justices do not owe Donald Trump one thing. This notion that somehow or another he's going to be treated unfairly, no. He should be subjected to the same laws, the same consequences, the same accountability as every other American. No one is above the law.
STEPHANOPOULOS: No way for John Roberts to get his wish here, is there?
PAGE: Bush v. Gore, as painful as that experience was for you, Donna Brazile, Americans generally accepted that ruling by the Supreme Court.
BRAZILE: Thanks to Al Gore who helped.
PAGE: Will that happen with the Supreme Court rulings? Will Americans accept the Supreme Court rulings as legitimate and move on, or will we see the kind of unrest that we don't want to see again?
ISGUR: This is where you're going to see John Roberts at his Chiefiest, if you will, which is he's going to want this to be 9-0. You may not even see a signed opinion. This could be what we call a per curiam, unsigned, no noted dissents. We won't know what the voter was. He's going to work very hard for exactly that reason, to protect the institution of the court.
STEPHANOPOULOS: Only one of many decisions they're going to have to make. Thank you all for your time this morning.
We'll be right back.
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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)
ANTONY BLINKEN, U.S. SECRETARY OF STATE: As we said from day one, we have an intense focus on preventing this conflict from spreading.
We'll be looking at what we can do to maximize the protection for civilians, maximize humanitarian assistance, getting into them, and also to get hostages out of Gaza. The situation for men, women and children in Gaza remains dire.
(END VIDEO CLIP)
STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary of State Anthony Blinken in Greece, Saturday, his latest show diplomacy mission to keep the Israel-Hamas conflict from spreading. Marcus Moore checking the new developments from Tel Aviv.
Good morning, Marcus.
MARCUS MOORE, ABC NEWS FOREIGN CORRESPONDENT: Well, good morning, George. This will be Secretary Blinken's fourth trip to the region of since the war broke out three months ago today. And he's expected to urge Israel to deliver more humanitarian aid to Gaza. And these meetings come as tensions here are widening and the violence spilling -- spilling across borders.
(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)
MOORE (voice-over): This weekend growing concerns that Israel-Hamas war will widen. Hezbollah shelling Israel from southern Lebanon Saturday. It's militia calling the barrage of rockets and initial response to the massive explosion that killed a top Hamas official in Beirut earlier this week.
State Department officials tell ABC News, Israel was behind the drone strike that killed Saleh al-Arouri, the second in command of Hamas and the senior leader in the West Bank. But Israel has yet to claim responsibility. If confirmed, it marks a major escalation, Israel's first attack in Beirut since 2006.
MATT MILLER, SPOKESPERSON, STATE OF DEPARTMENT: We remain incredibly concerned as we have been from the outset of this conflict about the risk of the conflict spreading into other fronts.
MOORE (voice-over): Just a day after that strike in nearby Iran, ISIS claiming responsibility for an attack that killed more than 90 people and wounded some 200 during a commemoration ceremony, marking the death of Iran's former Top General Qasem Soleimani, killed by a U.S. drone strike four years ago. He was seen as the mastermind behind an Iranian-backed network of militia groups that included Hamas and Hezbollah.
And in Baghdad, Thursday night, a retaliatory strike by the U.S. seen in these videos circulating online, taking out the leader of a militant group that officials say was closely linked with Iran.
MAJ. GEN. PAT RYDER, DEFENSE DEPARTMENT PRESS SECRETARY: This individual was actively involved in planning and carrying out attacks against American personnel.
MOORE (voice-over): This strike comes after more than 120 attacks targeting U.S. forces in Iraq and Syria by Iranian-backed militia since October, injuring at least 74 service members as well as ongoing attacks by Houthi rebels from Yemen threatening the safety of commercial cargo ships in the Red Sea, a major pathway for shipping vessels.
And for Palestinians in Gaza, the war is unrelenting. Three months since October 7th, Israel is still pounding Gaza. The U.N. now deeming it "uninhabitable."
MOORE: Secretary Blinken met with King Abdullah of Jordan today, and he lands here in Israel tomorrow where he's expected to meet with top Israeli officials to discuss their strategy toward Gaza, eliminating Hamas, and ensuring this conflict does not continue to escalate across borders, George.
(END VIDEOTAPE)
STEPHANOPOULOS: And there have been some differences there. Okay, Marcus, thanks very much. We'll be right back.
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STEPHANOPOULOS: That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out “World News” tonight and I’ll see you tomorrow on "GMA".
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