'This Week' Transcript 7-10-22: Secretary Gina Raimondo, Rep. Adam Kinzinger & Ambassador Rahm Emanuel

This is a rush transcript of "This Week" airing Sunday, July 10.

ByABC News
July 10, 2022, 9:59 AM

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, July 10, 2022 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

ANNOUNCER: "This Week" with George Stephanopoulos starts right now.


GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST (voiceover): Economic upswing.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: Our private sector has now recovered all of the jobs lost during the pandemic.

STEPHANOPOULOS: A strong June jobs report tempers recession fears as the Fed signals more action to fight inflation.

JOHN WILLIAMS, CEO OF THE FEDERAL RESERVE BANK OF NEW YORK: Inflation is far too high and price stability is absolutely essential for a strong economy.

STEPHANOPOULOS: This morning, Rebecca Jarvis and Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo on the state of our economy.

Closing in. The January 6th committee preps its final public hearings. Trump’s White House counsel testifies behind closed doors.

REP. ZOE LOFGREN (D-CA): Mr. Cipollone did not contradict the testimony of other witnesses.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Republican committee member Adam Kinzinger joins us in a "This Week" Exclusive.

Shocking assassination, Japan’s longest serving prime minister gunned down. British Prime Minister Boris Johnson forced out.

BORIS JOHNSON, BRITISH PRIME MINISTER: I want you to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Ian Pannell is live in London. Plus, U.S. ambassador to Japan, Rahm Emanuel.

And major setback.

UNKNOWN FEMALE: We're going to keep moving forward.

STEPHANOPOULOS: After the Supreme Court limits the power of the EPA to regulate carbon emissions. Ginger Zee reports on the future of President Biden's climate agenda.


ANNOUNCER: From ABC News, it's "This Week." Here now, George Stephanopoulos.

STEPHANOPOULOS (on camera): Good morning and welcome to "This Week."

As the summer heats up the U.S. economy does not appear to be cooling off. Friday's robust jobs report coupled with falling gas prices over the last month have boosted President Biden and calmed concerns that a recession is coming. But taming inflation is still the top priority for the Federal Reserve and most economists believe the continued interest rate hikes will trigger at least a mild recession.

We’ll discuss what comes next with Commerce Secretary Gina Raimondo after this report from our Chief Business and Economics Correspondent Rebecca Jarvis.


REBECCA JARVIS, ABC NEWS CHIEF BUSINESS AND ECONOMICS CORRESPONDENT: A stronger than expected report on the nation's jobs picture, the Bureau of Labor statistics announcing 372,000 jobs were added in June. Nearly 100,000 more than economists had forecast. With the unemployment rate steady at 3.6 percent. While inflation and the Federal Reserve's path to fight it have raised recession fears, so far job creation hasn’t faltered, demand for workers in most industries remains robust and 98 percent of jobs lost during the pandemic are now back.

BIDEN: In the second quarter of this year we created more jobs than any quarter under any of my predecessors in nearly 40 years, before the pandemic.

JARVIS: Still, despite those positive signals, prices are rising at the fastest rate in 40 years, the next report on inflation due in coming days expected to show just how high it remains. And while the latest jobs report eases some fears of an imminent recession, the Fed is still eyeing more big rate hikes ahead.

RAPHAEL BOSTIC, ATLANTA FEDERAL RESERVE BANK PRESIDENT: The tremendous momentum in the economy, to me, suggests that we can move 75 basis points at the next meeting and not see a lot of protracted damage to the broader economy.

JARVIS: With inflation costing families an extra $460 a month, rising prices are top of mind for Americans. A new Associated Press poll shows that 40 percent of Americans name inflation as a top priority for the government to work on. Nearly half also say their personal finances are a major issue for them.

BIDEN: I know times are tough. Prices are too high. Families are facing a cost of living crunch.

JARVIS: Americans hoping they start to feel some relief on their wallet. The national average for gas prices down from a month ago, but still at more than $4.60.

For "This Week," I'm Rebecca Jarvis -- ABC News, New York.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Our thanks to Rebecca Jarvis.

We're joined by the Secretary of Commerce, Gina Raimondo. Secretary Raimondo, thank you for joining us this morning.

Let's talk first about the possibility of a recession. Can we avoid a recession if interest rates keep climbing?

GINA RAIMONDO, U.S. SECRETARY OF COMMERCE: Good morning, George. Good to be with you.

I think we can. So let me say this, the economy, in the past year, year-and-a-half, has been growing at unprecedently high rates, 5, 6 percent. I don't think that we should expect that, right, I think it's normal to think as we continue to come out of the pandemic we will transition to a more -- to a robust growth, but a more steady growth.

So I do think at some point, you know, we will see a less rapid growth in the economy, but I don't see any reason to think that we will have a serious recession, in fact -- you know, by no measure, right? We recovered all the jobs since the pandemic. People's household balance sheets are strong. Companies are doing well. Companies are hiring. Companies are growing.

I was recently talking to the CEO of a major U.S. company who said to me, you know, it's almost like we're trying to talk ourselves into a recession. He said he sees no signs of it. His customers, both individual and companies, are buying. So the fundamentals of this economy are very strong.

Inflation is our problem and it is our top priority. And so I think perhaps a transition to a more traditional growth level, but I don't think we should be talking ourselves into a recession.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You cited all the good news, 5 to 6 percent growth over the last couple of years, the jobs situation is as strong as it’s been in -- really in decades. We’ve gotten back almost all the jobs from the pandemic, as you pointed out.

So how do you explain the disconnect between the strong economic fundamentals that you point out and the lowest consumer confidence that we've seen in years?

RAIMONDO: Inflation. One word. People talk about it in different ways. But if you ask folks what they're worried about they'll either say grocery store prices are high, food prices are high, energy prices, gas prices, that's in people's daily lives, right? So if -- every day you're confronted with these high prices it's hard on folks and the president has just said that in that clip I heard, it's tough for people. That’s why it’s the president's number one priority. It's our number one priority to get a handle on these prices and we will.

The Fed is taking strong action. Our president's administration, we’re doing everything we know how to do. You’re starting to see gas prices come down, wholesale gas prices are coming down. But until we do get a handle on inflation, I think it's natural for a family to be feeling that pinch.

Having said that, you have to -- George, I was the governor of Rhode Island when the pandemic hit, a state of a million people, at one point in time, we had 15 percent of our population collecting unemployment insurance. And I woke up every day with a pit in my stomach, how are we going to get folks back to work, open restaurants, open manufacturing facilities? And we’ve done that.

We averted -- because of the president's leadership, we averted the deep, deep recession, and I don't think we will ever see that. The challenge now is prices and we're working on that and we will get that under control.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You say the president's doing -- and the administration’s doing everything you know how to do. As you know, there are a lot of anxious Democrats out there. You see it in the headlines I'm showing right now. They want the president to be more aggressive and you have Congressmen like Ro Khanna saying there are things out there the president can do that he’s not doing.

Is there anything more the president can do to combat inflation that he’s not doing now?

RAIMONDO: Well, one of the things that Ro kind of pointed out in that piece is that Congress needs to pass the CHIPS Act. There’s a bill right now before Congress which Ro kind of supports, President Biden supports, which would increase the domestic supply of semiconductors and also start a supply chain office in the Department of Commerce. That has to pass. Has to pass now. Not in six months from now, now. It's bipartisan.

Mitch McConnell just threw a wrench in that about a week ago, saying that he wasn’t going to allow Republicans to move on that unless we move down reconciliation. That’s a perfect example, George, of increasing supply. We have inflation now because of lack of supply. And --


RAIMONDO: -- let's increase supply.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But as you point out, Madam Secretary, Mitch McConnell said it's not going anywhere as long as the president continues to push a budget reconciliation bill. So doesn't that mean the CHIPS bill is dead?

RAIMONDO: It shouldn’t be dead. Why can’t we do both? What’s in that reconciliation bill? Allowing Medicare to negotiate for drug prices. What will that do? Bring down the prices of medicine for the average American consumer.

So the -- again, the president wakes up every day pushing us and his team and Congress, what more can we do to bring down prices? So let's bring down prescription drug prices, so that people feel that when they go to the drugstore and also let's pass the CHIPS Act to bring down the prices of chips, which will bring down the price of pretty much everything you buy, because everything includes chips.

It's a false choice. He's playing politics with our national security and it's time for Congress to do its job on both of those dimensions.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, the president is calling for a global price gap on Russian oil as well. And as you know, a lot of economists are skeptical about whether that can really work. Are you confident it can?

RAIMONDO: I think it can. Yes, I think he can.

And, by the way, you know, you mentioned that -- gas prices are up over $1.50 a gallon since Putin began his war. And so, we need to do everything we can to end that war as quickly as possible.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Secretary Raimondo, thanks for your time this morning.

RAIMONDO: Thank you.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We are going to go overseas now, where a series of events have rocked some of America's closest allies. Boris Johnson's explosive exit in Great Britain, intense fighting in Ukraine and the stunning assassination of Japan's former prime minister combined for a consequential week.

And senior foreign correspondent Ian Pannell is tracking it all.

Good morning, Ian.


This has been an astonishing fall from grace for a man who delivered huge election victory to his party just three years ago, but it's been a week of intense political drama. Firstly, the resignation of two senior government ministers from his own party over the latest scandal to hit Boris Johnson, he tried to cling on. But within a matter of days, it was clear he had to go.


PANNELL (voice-over): After months of ducking and dodging growing controversy, this was the week when Boris Johnson's political fortunes went bust.


PANNELL: The UK prime minister caving to overwhelming pressure, he was forced to resign.

JOHNSON: And I want to know how sad I am to be giving up the best job in the world. But them's the breaks.

PANNELL: After three tumultuous years in office, this is the moment that Boris Johnson's political career has come to an end. He’s had massive electoral success. He managed to push Brexit through, but his political career runs amid controversy and chaos.

Johnson was badly wounded by party-gate, the dozen or so drunken gatherings in government residences while the rest of the nation was under lockdown. He survived a no-confidence vote and appeared to have dodged yet another bullet.

But it was revealed last week that Johnson promoted a lawmaker with a record of drunkenness and allegations of sexual misconduct. Johnson claimed to be unaware of this record, but he was accused of lying, unleashing a wave of resignations.

KEIR STARMER, BRITISH LABOUR PARTY LEADER: Mr. Speaker, isn’t this the first recorded case of a sinking ship fleeing the rat?

PANNELL: One of America's strongest allies was finally forced to resign.

Johnson’s first call after his resignation was to President Zelenskyy of Ukraine, as more Ukrainian troops land in the UK to be trained. The arrival of HIMARS that can hit targets from 50 miles donated by the U.S. endeavors, a potentially game changer.

Zelenskyy saying: Finally, it’s felt that the Western artillery, the weapons we received from our partners started working very powerfully.

ABC News given exclusive access this week on the front lines, showing these weapons in action.

But heavy shelling continues in the Donbas and elsewhere. Russia carrying on its brutal assault, shelling from afar as they continue to attempt to advance in the east.

Fears are growing of a major attack on Donetsk, the last province in the Donbas partially under Kyiv's control.

The week ended in tragedy in Japan. Former Prime Minister Shinzo Abe assassinated while giving a speech on the campaign trial on Thursday. Sixty-seven-year-old Abe was shot twice in the neck, with one of the bullets passing through his heart.

Hidetada Fukushima, the head of NARA Medical University emergency department, saying: We tried to resuscitate him, but unfortunately he passed away.

Police at the scene arresting this man, 41-year-old Tetsuya Yamagami, and have charged him with murder.

Tributes pouring in from around the world.

President Biden describing him as a man who dedicated his life to the service of his people and democracy.

JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNTIED STATES: I knew him well. And he -- he was deeply committed to strengthening the alliance and friendship between the United States and Japan.


PANNELL (on camera): George, voting's been under way today in Japan even as the country mourns the assassination of the former prime minister. And also, I think there is a profound sense of shock. Firstly, that this was allowed to happen, that the attacker was able to get so close, but also because gun crime in Japan is exceedingly rare -- George.


We're joined now by the U.S. ambassador to Japan, our former colleague, Rahm Emanuel.

Mr. Ambassador, thank you for joining us this morning.

You know, this assassination is shocking in so many ways. Give us a sense of how Japan is absorbing it.

RAHM EMANUEL, U.S. AMBASSADOR TO JAPAN: Well, George, I mean, the best way -- first of all, it's a shock. It’s a shock around the world, but it’s clearly a shock here in Japan, not just because gun violence is so rare. But also, you know, this is a nation that's an island, and a lot of what ails other countries, it is immune and feels immune. It's a very trusting society.

And so to have something like this is a total – I mean shock to the system, a shock to the culture. And one of the things that I noticed when I first came here is the entire sense of culture and familiarity people have. And, you know, as an outsider one of the things that I hope is not lost, even though the bubble has been pierced, is that level of trust in society.

So, he is a big figure that has pervaded across the political stage here for over a decade. His family, for six, seven decades. But what -- how it happened, what happened, I don't -- I could tell you this, hasn't been totally absorbed into the society or the politics. People are walking around with a sense of disbelief.

STEPHANOPOULOS: As you said, he's such a large figure. You tweeted that he was a man ahead of his time, longest serving Japanese prime minister.

Reflect on his legacy and what that meant to the United States.

EMANUEL: I think two – a couple things I would say quickly. We all talk about a free and open Indo-Pacific. That was his construct. So we are actually operating within the strategic outlook and architect that he designed.

Second, he originated the concept of a quad. The notion that India, the United States, Japan and Australia would all work together as a team and two presidents now of two parties operate with that as almost if it's their own.

Third, he was the author, with President Obama, of the Trans-Pacific economy strategic integration of the entire region with the United States. At every level, those three things, economics, national security, Newark Alliance, a construct of the – kind of a theme called the free and open Indo-Pacific, he is the original author of. And so he has been a force that, as I said, not only ahead of his time, now time is catching up to him.

The second thing I would say, George, is, you know, you've heard me say this before about very effective political leadership. They're idealistic enough to know why they’re doing what they’re doing and then tough enough to get it done. That describes Abe. He was a visionary who had a vision and a sense of where he was going, where he wanted to take Japan, where he wanted to take the region. And then he was ruthless enough, tough enough and strategic enough to see it and execute it through. And, in many ways, everything we're dealing with today and still working through is within the structure and intellectual framework that he put out on the table. That’s a new president (ph) person (ph) that when –

STEPHANOPOULOS: You also knew him in person. What was he like as a man?

EMANUEL: Well, you know, we – I’ve gotten to know him. We just -- a month ago we did a forum. He’s one of the first people I met. He had a great sense of humor.

One individual thing. I went to see his family today. I always joked with him and then also with his mother. He used to go out for a walk with his mother once a week. And his mother is both the wife of a defense minister, the daughter of a former prime minister, the mother of a prime minister, a mother also of a defense minister. I said, I don’t want to know any of these ministers. I want to know the force behind all of these men. I want to know the mother.

But he was a -- had a great sense of humor. He had a -- his mind was always moving. He was always moving. And he had a great strategic sense. And he also had a sense of, as I tried to say when I expressed it, he was a Japanese statesman, a world leader and a dear friend of the United States. And he saw the United States and Japan as a partnership that was unstoppable. And I – you know, the relationship between the United States and Japan used to be one of alliance protection. Because of his vision, it's now a one of alliance projection into the Indo-Pacific area.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Ambassador Emanuel, thanks very much for your time this morning.

When we come back, the January 6th committee preparing to wrap its public hearings this week. Committee member Adam Kinzinger joins us live.



REP. ZOE LOFGREN, (D-CA): Mr. Cipollone did appear voluntarily and answered a whole variety of questions. He did not contradict the testimony of other witnesses. And I think we did learn a few things which we will be rolling out in hearings to come.


STEPHANOPOULOS: President Trump's White House counsel Pat Cipollone testified to the January 6th Committee on Friday. We're joined now by committee member Congressman Adam Kinzinger.

Congressman Kinzinger, thanks for coming back to "This Week" this morning. We just heard Congresswoman Lofgren right there talk about Pat Cipollone's testimony. Anything more you can say about that?

It's been reported that the committee didn't ask Mr. Cipollone to corroborate the specifics of Cassidy Hutchinson's testimony. What's the reasoning behind that?

REP. ADAM KINZINGER (R-IL): Well, look, we -- it was an eight-hour interview. We went through a lot of stuff. And as Zoe said, he did not contradict anybody.

Look, we're not -- first off, we're not going to bring somebody in and just sit around and ask them about what other people said, too. We're getting their information, their front, position. And I think it's very clear, you'll see over the next couple of hearings a little of what he said. Certainly you'll see a lot of that in the report. But at no point was there any contradiction of -- of what anybody said. But the rest I'll have to leave to the presentation for the -- for the committee.

STEPHANOPOULOS: We also -- Trump adviser Steve Bannon has been indicted for refusing to testify before the committee. But The Washington Post reported this week that Trump is now considering waiving any claims of executive privilege applied to Bannon.

Does the committee still want to hear from him?

KINZINGER: Look, I'll just say overall, because Steve Bannon is involved in -- in the law. He's -- he's fighting with the Justice Department. I will just say, on a high-level position, anybody that wants to come in, that knows information to talk to the select committee, we welcome them to do so. We welcome them to do so under oath. And we all know the history with our requests to have talked to Steve Bannon. So we'll see how that comes out.

But the bottom line is, yes, we as a committee want to talk to anybody that has information.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Does that hold for the founder of the Oath Keepers as well, Stewart Rhodes, who offered to waive his fifth amendment rights to testify at a live public hearing. He's in jail now. Is that a viable proposal?

KINZINGER: Yeah, I mean, look, again, any one of these things we'll take a look at, as long as it's under oath. We've talked to a lot of people, as you know, already, by transcribed interview. And so I think what you're seeing, for sure, by comments like that, and anybody else's, they went from initially saying that this committee was nothing but, you know, a sideshow, something that nobody was interested in, to all of a sudden, "Oh, yeah, I want to testify publicly in front of it."

We saw that the former president, former President Trump, is very angry that Kevin McCarthy did exactly what he wanted -- what Trump wanted him to do, which was pull off his Republican members of Congress, and so -- because now he has two Republican members that aren't going to sit there and spew out the big lie. So this is an amazing thing for the American people, to hear the truth. Most importantly, we just want the truth to come out so that something like this never happens again in this country.

STEPHANOPOULOS: It doesn't appear to be breaking through to Republicans. There's a lot of recent polling showing that the number of Republicans over the last year who view this as a legitimate protest on January 6th and not an insurrection has actually dramatically risen. How do you explain that.

KINZINGER: Well, look, I think, on the margins, yes, it is puncturing through. And I think what's most important is, again, what does history say in five or 10 years? Because I can guarantee -- well, I can get about as close as I can to guaranteeing that, in about 10 years, there's not going to have been a single Trump supporter that exists anywhere in the country. It's like Nixon. There were a lot of people that supported Nixon until he was out of office, and then everybody was like, "No, nobody supported Nixon."

I figure that that's going to happen. But the other thing is this. We live in a media environment where you get your media from whoever, kind of, reinforces whatever you already believe. And there is a profit motive on some of these media outlets to not say anything contradictory to what Donald Trump is saying. He's in essence a cult leader right now, and he's a man that can stand up and say anything he wants, and these news organizations just reinforce it.

So, look, if you have leaders of Congress like Kevin McCarthy, like, frankly, most members of the -- of the Republican Party in Congress, that just simply refuse to tell the truth to their constituents, first off they're lying and abusing their constituents. But, secondly, you can't really expect there to be much of a different outcome.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Kevin McCarthy's allies are promising to review the work of the committee if Republicans take control of Congress next year. Of course, you're not going to be in Congress. You're retiring. But does that concern you?

KINZINGER: No, not at all. In fact, well -- I welcome them to see the work that we’ve done because, again, as was originally stated, we were supposed to have this in a commission where it was even, 50 percent Republican, 50 percent Democrat. Kevin McCarthy, after supporting it, opposed it, and then this committee was created. Kevin put his people on there. I think the speaker rightly said here’s two that participated in the insurrection, you can't have that. So they were pulled. Kevin could have put two different members on. Instead he pulled them off thinking he would sink the legitimacy of the committee and it has done the direct opposite. This has been a bipartisan committee and I’m very proud of the work we've done.

So, yes, I will be --


KINZINGER: -- scrutiny.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You'll be leading Thursday’s “Primetime” here with Congresswoman Elaine Luria. What is the focus, and will we be learning new information?

KINZINGER: Well, obviously, we'll save the new information for that hearing. But, look, I think that we’re going to really focus on what was the president doing from, in essence, the moment the insurrection started until he finally hours later put out the tweet that said we shouldn’t do anything like this. Keep in mind in the middle of that was the tweet that said, in essence, this is what happens when you steal an election, that Vice President Pence deserved this.

So what we want to show the American people was what was the president doing during that time. The rest of the country knew that there was an insurrection. The president obviously had to have known there was an insurrection. So where was he? What was he doing? It's a very important hearing. Pay attention. Because I think it goes to the heart of what the is the oath of a leader. You have an oath to defend the Constitution of the United States, you can't selectively pick what parts of the Constitution you defend or what branches of government, and you certainly can’t be gleeful during it.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Finally, "The New York Times" reported this week that both the former FBI Director James Comey and his deputy Andrew McCabe received these supposedly random audits. They go to one in several hundred thousand people. Of course they were both officials who were targeted publicly by President Trump.

What are the chances, in your view, that those audits are an innocent coincidence?

KINZINGER: I mean, look, if you just take those math numbers, it seems very unlikely. I don't know, of course, the details of their finances and what could possibly trigger it. But nobody ever for their political views, for anything, should be targeted or discriminated against by the IRS and I certainly think it's right for the investigator to look into this in the IRS and if there was targeting there should be serious, serious not just penalties for the person who did it but, you know, fixes for the system so something like this happens again. That's like third world stuff. That’s not something we should do here in the United States.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Congressman, thanks as always for your time.


STEPHANOPOULOS: Roundtable is coming up. Plus Nate Silver's take on how the Supreme Court's abortion ruling will impact the midterm elections. Stay with us.



JOE BIDEN, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We need two additional pro-choice senators and a pro-choice House to codify Roe as federal law. Your vote can make that a reality. If you want to change the circumstances for women and even little girls in this country, please go out and vote.


STEPHANOPOULOS: President Biden announcing new executive actions aimed at protecting abortion rights after two more state abortion bans went into effect this week. Democrats are counting on the issue to energize their voters for the midterms, but will it be enough to stave off big losses?

Here's Nate Silver of “FiveThirtyEight”.


NATE SILVER, FIVETHIRTYEIGHT: Traditionally, abortion is an issue that motivated Republican voters, but this year might be different.

Let's start, of course, with the data. Six polling firms since the court's decision asked voters who they prefer for Congress. On average, those polls show the Democrats ahead by 1.5 percentage points. But here’s the thing, if you look at what the same polls show just before the abortion ruling, they had Republicans up by 1.3 points on average. All six polls have shown some type of movement toward Democrats. It could be a statistical quirk, but it's certainly worth keeping an eye on.

But let's back up a second, why does the president's party, in this case, Joe Biden and Democrats, almost always lose ground in the midterms?

One explanation from political science is that voters want to balance the scales. Usually, if a party controls both the presidency and the Congress that implement changes that some voters think go too far. Like in 2010, when Obamacare was unpopular and contributed to a 63-seat Republican gain in the House.

But this year, conservative judges have reversed laws or federal government policies on everything from abortion to requiring masks on airlines. So, the traditional roles are somewhat reverse.

Where the Supreme Court won’t help Democrats is with the economy. This week’s Monmouth poll found that 36 percent of voters mentioned inflation as their most important concern and 15 percent said gas prices, compared to just 5 percent who said abortion. But it may give Democrats an enthusiasm boost. A recent Marist College poll found that 78 percent of Democratic voters are more likely to vote in the midterms in response to the abortion decision.

On the whole, the odds still favor Republicans. But I buy that Roe being overturned evens the equation a bit towards Democrats.



The roundtable is next.

We'll be right back.



OV. J.B. PRITZKER (D), ILLINOIS: I'm furious. I'm furious that yet more innocent lives were taken by gun violence. I'm furious because it does not have to be this way. And yet we, as a nation, well, we continue to allow this to happen.

SEN. MITCH MCCONNELL (R-KY): The problem is mental health and these young men who seem to be inspired to commit these atrocities.


STEPHANOPOULOS: More than 300 deadly mass shootings in America just this year. The latest, of course, in Highland Park at that July 4th parade on Monday.

We’re going to talk about it on the roundtable.

I'm joined by Chris Christie, Donna Brazile, Jane Coaston, host of “The New York Times” podcast “The Argument,” and Julie Pace, the executive editor of the AP.

And, Julie, let me begin with you.

Of course that shooting on Monday came in the wake of the significant bipartisan legislation to address gun control the Senate and the House passed after Uvalde. It wouldn’t have made any difference. JULIE PACE, ASSOCIATED PRESS EXECUTIVE EDITOR: No, and, look, I think that's some of the frustration that a lot of advocates for gun control measures have, is that while I think that we've had such little action legislatively over the last several years that this was a significant piece of legislation, but it was far from, sort of, closing the gap with what people see as the -- these major loopholes that we have, the ability to access guns.

And if you look at this shooter in Illinois, you know, there were flags. There were very obvious flags. And that still wasn't enough to prevent him from getting a gun. And that's just the reality of gun access in America right now. You can have all of these indications that this person could be troubled and they can still get access to a gun.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris, this debate is so frustrating, so enraging, so repetitive. But when you talk about these red flag laws, they can make a difference if people on the ground are committed to enforcing them.

CHRIS CHRISTIE, (R) FORMER NEW JERSEY GOVERNOR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Well, sure, and that's what you saw happen in -- in Highland Park, right? I mean, there were plenty of signs with this guy, and the systems have to work better, and people have to be more aggressive.

You know, it's -- it's almost like a campaign, George, of "When you see something, say something," right, that we've done on -- on terrorism and other crises that we had in the country like COVID, where people feel like they have to be empowered to be able to participate in this. Because we're never going to have enough law enforcement, ever, nor would we want to, to be able to have law enforcement people enforce this. It has to be family members, friends and others who hear these disturbing things from people who are having mental health issues and put them in the system.

Because, you know, when I was governor, we made it easier to involuntarily commit folks for 48 to 72 hours who were speaking out violently, specifically. I mean, there are things that -- that need to be considered. But none of that will work if people don't get involved personally and tell people what's going on.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Jane Coaston, the shootings continue; the debate doesn't change at all.

JANE COASTON, NEW YORK TIMES' 'THE ARGUMENT' HOST ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Right, right. And I think it's important to recognize that, when we're talking about gun violence, when we're talking about mass shootings, that's an entirely separate problem from interpersonal shootings. When we're talking about typical gun violence like what we saw take place in Akron or what we're seeing take place across the country, that is, you know, kind of, the one-off shootings. Mass shootings -- and I think one of the most disturbing elements of mass shootings is one of the highest predictors for mass shootings is suicidal ideation.

And we see, with Highland Park, you see, like, these disturbing elements here. But I think the other concern about red flag laws is, like, who is waving the flag? Who's enforcing the flag? And how would you know it worked?

And I think that these problems are so challenging. You know, we with the issue of a lot of gun laws are under-enforced, regarding straw purchasing, which is a big issue that we see causing gun violence in Chicago and other large cities that are actually -- have very strict gun laws but are near states with weaker gun laws. But with mass shootings, it really is one of those events where it's so horrifying, so concerning, and yet the pieces of the puzzle that could stop them from happening are really hard to find.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Donna Brazile, President Biden seemed almost defeated in the wake of the shooting on Monday, didn't -- didn't address it when he first came out. And lot of Democrats drew a contrast between his reaction and that of what we just saw the governor of Illinois, J.B. Pritzker. Is this a pattern we're starting to see with the president?

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: George, I think the president understands that we have to do more to reduce gun violence in this country. And -- and tomorrow he's going to address this issue once again because we know that the bipartisan Community Safety Act is not enough. We still need tougher laws on the book to prevent people who should not own guns from having access to guns. And of course the president would like to see a ban on assault weapons.

So I think we continue to have this conversation because there needs to be multiple approaches to reducing gun violence in America. And it's not just a law enforcement issue. I think it's a whole-of-community -- the country itself has to deal with this -- this issue. Otherwise all we're doing every week is saying, "Again? Enough is enough" or "How many more times?"

This is a very serious issue, and we need the president, vice president and everybody else, including local law officials and mayors to get involved in trying to curb gun violence in the United States today.



CHRISTIE: Well, I think Jane made a really important distinction, though, in her comments, which is, you know, we have the mass shootings and then we have the regular gun violence that is going on in our cities.

(UNKNOWN): Every single day.

CHRISTIE: Every day. We're sitting here in New York this morning. You know, there was a compelling front page of the New York Post this week that had a person's sneaker covered in blood from having been in -- just in the area of a place where there was a big shooting here in New York City.

I think there's two different ways to look at this. And the way that I think Jane laid out is we need to also be looking at what we're doing with law enforcement in our -- in our cities and make a recalibration from where we were a few years ago. We’re seeing the results of that, I think --


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- starting to happen, don’t you think? I mean, the Democrats have pushed back on these calls we saw a couple years ago for defunding the police.

CHRISTIE: Right. And I think that -- but I think that the recalibration, George, having done this for a while, it takes a while for that to come down to the cop on the street --


COASTON: I would also --

CHRISTIE: -- to recognize what they need to do and what they're empowered to do to try to stop this. And also, the message has to get through to the criminal. I mean, we have so many cases -- I just heard last night that the Manhattan DA alone is turning down 600 discretionary prosecutions a week in Manhattan. I mean, criminals get the joke and when they know they're not going to be prosecuted they become much more aggressive.

COASTON: I would also say that the -- I mean, first and foremost, many areas that are experiencing massive increases in gun violence, include areas that at no point defunded police, in -- they also, like, increased police funding.

I also think that one of the elements here is that law enforcement, the tools that law enforcement has to prevent gun violence are myriad. But also the way that that can sometimes -- I'm someone who I’m supportive of the right to bear arms, I’m supportive of gun rights ownership and what we see so many times is that this conversation comes about who gets guns and who doesn't get guns and how we all determine that.

And so my concern here, as always, is that we're attempting to do the almost impossible task of balancing civil liberties with protecting the right to not get shot. And that is a challenge that we're seeing on the local, state, and federal level as politicians attempt to measure can -- if you have been diagnosed with a mental illness, which could include anxiety or depression, should you be able to own a gun? I know that as anyone who has lived with mental illness, which can be any form of mental illness, you might be thinking, but like no, no, no, my depression is under control, I should be able to protect myself.

And I just keep thinking that we're talking about law enforcement getting more aggressive, we’re talking about red flag laws, this is all much more complicated that we can even begin --


COASTON: -- to discuss.

PACE: -- one of the things that makes you -- you hit on a really great point. One of the things that makes the debate in the U.S. so much different than it has been in some other countries around the world that have experienced just maybe one mass shooting is that they have been willing to give up some level of rights. People have said I’m willing to give up the right to have that gun in order to prevent those shootings from happening. And that’s just not going to -- I mean, practically speaking, that's just not going to be part of the debate here.

STEPHANOPOULOS: That is just -- that is truly not going to happen.

Donna, let me bring this back to you. Taking away from the issue of guns, the president has been getting pressured from progressive Democrats on issue after issue. On abortion they say he's not doing enough. On the economy they say he's not doing enough. Is there any way for the president to get out of this bind ahead of the midterm elections?

BRAZILE: Absolutely, George. I remember last summer when some of our colleagues on the left said that he was doing too much and he wasn't focused on the things that they wanted him to focus on.

Look, the president has to get it right, he has to set the right tone but he also has to use the bully pulpit to try to bring the American people together so he cannot just be the spokesperson for the progressive wing of the Democratic party or the moderate wing. He has to be the President of the United States of America.

And look, I want to applaud some of the governors who are stepping up now. Well, there’s the governor of Illinois, the governor of California, because as Chris Christie will tell you, governors also set policies, not just in their states but they also set a national tone.

So the president has to get it right. He has to calibrate it, make sure the American people understand the fundamentals. But look, he is not going to be the activist president that some of the progressives wanted in 2020. He is still Joe Biden.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Chris Christie, another big week coming up for the January 6th Committee. We saw Pat Cipollone go in and testify for about eight hours on Friday. How significant?

CHRISTIE: Really significant because for those of us who know Pat, and I do, he's an honest straightforward guy.

STEPHANOPOULOS: He didn't want to testify.

CHRISTIE: No, well, look -- and it's a difficult position, right? You're a lawyer, you have a client, the whole privilege of both attorney client privilege and executive privilege are difficult issues to navigate. But I think he ultimately did the right thing.

He got subpoenaed. He didn't do what some other folks have done and refused the subpoena and stay away; he went and apparently, gave eight hours of videotape deposition testimony, which I'm sure we’re going to see lots of over the course of the next couple of weeks.

But I think also what you're seeing continuing here is the truth finds its way out. No matter how hard people, and the former president is the absolute leader of this, tries to push the truth back under ground, the truth continues to find its way out because honest people don't want to be tagged with this.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But it doesn't appear to be moving Republicans. That’s the question I put down on Kinzinger.

CHRISTIE: I’d say to you, George, that on the -- I can say on the ground going around and campaigning different campaigns, I think it is. I think the polling phenomenal you're having here is the mirror opposite of 2016. 2016, nobody wanted to say they were voting for Donald Trump --


CHRISTIE: -- politically --


COASTON: -- the shy Trump voter --

(CROSSTALK) COASTON: But now, we’re seeing the shy Trump skeptic, people who were like, can we just get somebody else?

CHRISTIE: And that’s with the primary. Like that was a general election phenomenon in 2016. No one wants to say they were voting for Trump over Hillary to a pollster. Now in Republican primary polling, it is politically incorrect to say you're against Trump.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Yeah. And, Julie Pace, the surest sign that I think Chris and Jane are right here is probably the reaction we’ve seen over the last several days from former President Trump.

PACE: Exactly. Look, I think he knows. He's hearing -- we know he’s hearing from people around him who also have said, you know, sir, this is not going well. I think that he's starting to get that message delivered to him directly.

You know, I do think it's a question of when people go into that voting booth, and, you know, do they actually go for Trump or they go for someone else? But you can sense -- and the governor should tell us how he feels about this, you can sense from other Republicans who’ve been eyeing 2024 that they feel like there is much more openness to a Trump challenge that would be successful that there might have been three or four months ago.

CHRISTIE: Look, many of us were saying that, I was and others a year ago, that, look, this stuff is incremental. We're in such a immediate satisfaction society, we want everyone to understand something, that we want them to understand now -- people in the country have a lot going on in their lives and this incrementally happens.

I think it will continue to, and the problem for the former president is, in some of these scandals he’s had before, the truth was actually helpful to him. In this one, the truth is not helpful to him because the more the truth comes out, the more we know. That what he wanted more than anything else was to stay in power under any circumstances. And what he wanted more than anything else was for that election to be overturned. And that's becoming clearer and clearer as more and more of the facts come out.

STEPHANOPOULOS: And, Donna, how worried should Democrats be, not only if Republicans take control of the House after the midterms, that the work of the January 6th committee is going to be reviewed, you're going to see a blowback and retaliation, subpoenas across the board for Democrats on a range of issues, maybe even a move to impeach President Biden?

BRAZILE: Look, I have every reason to expect that the Republicans will act Republicans when they're back in power if they succeed in taking back control of the House or the United States Senate. They're going to go on a revenge tour. They’re going to try to expose every little comment and sentence that we’ve seen come out of the Biden/Harris administration.

But, look, I don’t think we should fear what the Republicans will do. What this committee has already demonstrated is that they are getting to the bottom of what happened on January 6th. And this week, we're going to learn from the protesters, the Oath Keepers, the Proud Boys and others if they had any contact with White House officials.

I think it's important that we just learn the truth and if the Republicans want to use their precious time, if they manage to take back control of Congress, House or Senate, fine, the American people want our political leaders to try to work together, solve our problems and to really get us back to some type of normalcy.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Donna Brazile, all of us here, thanks very much for your time this morning.

When we come back, after the Supreme Court dealt a blow to President Biden’s climate agenda, Ginger Zee takes a closer look at the administration's efforts to reduce carbon emissions.



MICHAEL REGAN, EPA ADMINISTRATOR: Climate action presents an opportunity for this country to ensure global competitiveness, create jobs, lower costs for families and protect people's health and well-being. So, yes, today's action is a disappointing action, it is a setback, and we will continue to evaluate very thoroughly what the Supreme Court actually has said today. But let's be clear, the constraint does not take EPA out of the game.


STEPHANOPOULOS: EPA Administrator Michael Regan reacting to the Supreme Court ruling limiting the federal government’s ability to fight climate change by regulating power plant emissions. It’s a major blow to President Biden's climate agenda.

Chief meteorologist and managing editor of ABC’s Climate Unit, Ginger Zee, reports on the fallout.


GINGER ZEE, ABC NEWS MANAGING EDITOR, CLIMATE UNIT (voice over): Despite increasing urgency in the fight to combat climate change, the Supreme Court recently pulled back the government's power to fight it. The court’s conservative majority ruled that the EPA went too far under the Obama administration when it tried to push power plants to move away from coal. The decision said, only Congress, not on unelected agency, can set policies that have major impacts on an entire industry. In her dissent, Justice Elena Kagan accused the court of stripping the EPA of power to address, quote, the most pressing environmental challenge of our time.

DAVID DONIGER, SENIOR STRATEGIC DIRECTOR, NATIONAL RESOURCES DEFENSE COUNCIL: The world is way, way behind of curbing the carbon pollution, especially rom these big sources.

ZEE: President Biden called the decision devastating and EPA Administrator Michael Regan said he is deeply disappointed.

But legal experts and analyst say that the EPA still has a shot of regulating greenhouse gases from power plants.

MICHAEL GERRARD, COLUMBIA LAW SCHOOL PROFESSOR: This decision is a blow, but not a knockout punch. It takes away one of the tools that EPA had to deal with climate change, but there are lots of others.

ZEE: The Biden administration will continue to use its authority to reduce carbon emissions and try to achieve some of the climate commitments that the president made during those first days in office. But the court's decision puts more pressure on Congress and states to turn the president's climate dreams into reality.

Environmental lawyers, like Michael Gerrard, say the West Virginia versus EPA decision could have implications of a slew of future environmental regulations.

GERRARD: Congress hasn’t passed a major new environmental law in 32 years, since 1990 We’ve had partisan paralysis since then. So, if we are relying on Congress to be more specific, that's not likely to happen.

ZEE: But climate advocates and experts say that any move that slows down effort to reduce carbon emissions is a threat to the country's and the world's goals to limit warming from climate change.

DONIGER: This is a radical decision cutting back on the Environmental Protection Agency's authority from this conservative court coming at the same moment that our country and the whole world is suffering through blistering heat waves and floods and storms that are driven by carbon pollution. It’s just so out of touch with reality.


ZEE: The United States is lagging behind when it comes to the promises that we made back in Paris. We said that we wanted to cut our greenhouse gas emissions of 2005 levels by 25 percent. Right now we're on track to reduce by about 17 percent. And with the new climate meetings planned for Egypt this November, the world is bond to be asking, how does the U.S. do this with even more political hurdles.


STEPHANOPOULOS: And those hurdles are high.

Ginger Zee, thanks very much.

That is all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT." And I'll see you tomorrow on "GMA."