'This Week' Transcript: Gov. Bobby Jindal and Rep. Jason Chaffetz

ByABC News
October 11, 2015, 10:59 AM

— -- ANNOUNCER: Starting right now on ABC This Week.

Stunning shakeup: Republicans in congress desperate to find a new leader as chaos erupts on Capitol Hill. Can someone finally bring the party together?

Plus, crunch time: Democrats preparing for their biggest moment yet, facing off in the make-or-break debate in just two days. With Sanders surging and Clinton struggling, who will come out on top?

And, is Biden finally jumping in? The clock ticking down on his 2016 decision. Why it could happen this week.

From ABC News, This Week with George Stephanopoulos begins now.

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC HOST: And good morning. I'm Martha Raddatz.

So many developing stories as we come on the air. But we begin with the breaking news out of Turkey where twin bomb blasts have killed nearly 100 people at a peace rally. It's the deadliest terror attack in the country's modern history.

Turkey is a key U.S. ally in the war against ISIS. And ABC's Alex Marquardt is there with the latest.

Good morning, Alex.


You can see here a large crowd that has gathered for a service for those who were killed in the attack yesterday. They are being called martyrs for freedom and democracy. The blast at the capital's main train station ripped through a crowd gathered for a peace rally. That the first blast caught on camera.

Afterwards, there was chaos and carnage everywhere, many fleeing, others trying to help the wounded as ambulances poured in.

Now Turkish officials are telling us today that the death toll has risen to almost 100 with hundreds more still in the hospital.

They think that suicide bombers carried out this attack, which is the worst terror attack in modern Turkish history. They say that ISIS or Kurdish militants are believed to be behind it, but so far there has been no claim of responsibility.

Now many in Turkey are blaming the government for breaking the truce with the Kurdish militant group the PKK. And with Turkey on the offensive about both ISIS and the PKK, many fear that this is a sign of more violence and bloodshed to come -- Martha.

RADDATZ: Thanks, Alex.

We're joined by former national counterterrorism center director Michael Leiter. And Michael, this, as you heard, the deadliest attack in Turkey's modern history. What effect will it have in the region?

MICHAEL LEITER, FRM. NATIONAL COUNTERTERRORISM CENTER DIRECTOR: I think a couple of effects, Martha. First of all, this really is Turkey's 9/11. This will be a massive effect on it politically. But it also -- this is all an outgrowth of Syria. Whether it's ISIS, whether it's an offshoot of the PKK, this all goes to Turkey's involvement in the region and the pressure which is coming out of ISIS because of the Kurds fighting.

ISIS and Assad, ISIS now being attacked by Turkey, it is showing really the cauldron that that region is. And it's making any stability for Turkey, an alignment between Turkey and Europe and NATO that much more difficult.

RADDATZ: And this week in Syria, we had the U.S. saying the training of Syrian rebels is not working. It's a failure. So now what?

LEITER: This is all very, very disappointing. I think all of us who have been arguing for a stronger action in Syria for a longer time have relied on air strikes in combination with an ability to train. And I think at its core, the problem with the training was not supporting people who were also going against Assad.

And Assad is the core problem here. ISIS is a symptom of Assad, not just the problem. And when we focused all of our training only on those elements that would fight against ISIS, we really were going down, I think, a losing path.

RADDATZ: And you have got Russia involved also this week, firing that barrage of cruise missiles that congested air space.

LEITER: Yeah, this just went from an impossible situation to a more impossible situation.

Becuase Russia's involvement shows two things. One, it shows how a local problem can spiral into a regional and almost geopolitical strategic challenge. And second, it simply limits our options. Having a no-fly zone, having a safe zone to the northern end of Syria all of that become more complicated with Russia there, Russia fighting.

RADDATZ: And just very quickly this morning, Michael, there are reports from Iraq that they have hit the ISIS leader, al Baghdadi. Those reports have been wrong in the past. But if they did get him?

LEITER: If they got him, it would be good. But honestly I don't think it is going to change the dynamic very much.

Ultimately, this continues to be a civil war, now a regional proxy war. And Baghdadi going away is not going to change those global dynamics.

RADDATZ: Thanks very much.

LEITER: Thank you, Martha, great to be here.

RADDATZ: And now to the critical countdown in the 2016 race: will Joe Biden jump in? There he is this weekend, out with his family, mulling over the biggest political decision of his life.

Plus, Hillary Clinton, Bernie Sanders, and the rest of the field set to face-off in that first democratic debate. ABC's Cecilia Vega tracking it all. She joins us from outside the vice president's home in Delaware.

Good morning, Cecilia.

CECILIA VEGA, ABC NEWS CORRESPONDENT: Martha, good morning to you. No sign of him yet. But all eyes on Joe Biden. If he's going to jump into this race, heneeds to decide soon.


VEGA: Joe Biden, on the run. This weekend sprinting past cameras following his every move, and dodging questions about entering the race for the White House.


VEGA: the vice president at home in Delaware with his family, weighing his political future. Sources close to Biden tell ABC News he believes he has about one week to make up his mind. And while publicly, last week, it was funnyman Joe...

BIDEN: If I don't move, I'll be demoted to secretary of state or something like that. That's a joke. That's a joke.

VEGA: Privately, his aides had very serious discussions with Democratic Party leaders, covering critical rules and fast-approaching ballot deadlines, all crucial if a team is mounting a presidential bid.

If he does jump in, a new poll shows Biden cutting into Hillary Clinton's lead in the key battleground states Ohio, Pennsylvania, and Florida.

Clinton now wins more than 50 percent of the primary vote, far ahead of Vermont Senator Bernie Sanders.

But watch that lead dip if Biden declares.

And with a possible Biden run looming, Clinton issuing a warning.

HILLARY CLINTON (D), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Now, if he gets into the election, then people are going to be raising questions just like they do about me. That's what happens when you get into the arena.

VEGA: In that arena, a stunning political reversal. Clinton denouncing one of President Obama's top priorities, a flip-flop on his Trans-Pacific Partnership deal, the 12 nation trade deal she once backed and called the gold standard.

But now?

CLINTON: I'm not in favor of what I have learned about it.

VEGA: In less than a month, it is her fourth major split from her former boss. From her opposition to the Keystone Pipeline to calling for a no-fly zone in Syria and saying the administration has gone too far on deportations.

With Sanders gaining, Clinton moving to the left before Tuesday's first Democratic debate.

As he rakes in the campaign cash and draws enormous crowds. More than 13,000 in Arizona Friday, and 9,000 in Colorado Saturday.

And just in time for the debate, Republicans releasing this new ad, targeting Hillary Clinton.

CLINTON: I did not email any classified material to anyone.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: A federal government watchdog has determined there was classified information.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Did, in fact, contain classified information.


RADDATZ: OK, and Cecilia joins us now live.

Cecilia, you have talked about Joe Biden probably deciding this week, but when would it actually be too late for him to decide?

VEGA: Well, you know, technically, he could run as a write-in candidate and declare at the very last minute. But no one believes that that is actually to happen.

It is late already. Time is of the essence right now. And there are real deadlines approaching, the first one coming up in just a few days, October 29. He would need to declare by then in order to make it on to the Georgia ballot.

But it's not just these deadlines. He's got to compete with campaign infrastructure that are built up already out there with major cash that's been raised. Those polls that we talked about in our piece that show him making a dent in Hillary Clinton's lead if he does decide to declare, it's not just that. Take a look at this, she has 64,000 campaign volunteers built up all around this country already.

If he wants to compete with that, Martha, he has got to decide soon. Some would say it's already too late.

RADDATZ: Well, and obviously, he's not in time for the debate this week.

Give us an idea what the expectations are for that debate.

VEGA: You know, all eyes on Tuesday. A lot of political tea leaf reading happening right now. CNN has said that Joe Biden could jump in on the day of, if he decides to do that. No one believes that he will, although I'll tell you that would be the campaign story of a lifetime.

What is at the crux of his decision right now is is his emotional state. He's reportedly meeting with family this weekend. That is going help him decide whether to run. Everyone is going to watching that stage in Las Vegas on Tuesday looking at Hillary Clinton facing off against Bernie Sanders.

Some of the issues we expect to come up: Sanders' history on gun control, of course that flip-flop from Hillary Clinton on trade.

What we don't expect to see that political free-for-all that we saw with Republicans, Martha. So far, the Democrats are promising, at least for now, to play nice.

RADDATZ: Thanks, Cecilia.

Now to the Republicans and the latest on that chaos on Capitol Hill. A leadership crisis for the GOP this morning. Their search for the speaker stillon.

ABC's Jon Karl has the breaking details.


JONATHAN KARL, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT (voice-over): After that stunning decision by House Majority Leader Kevin McCarthy to bow out of the race for speaker --

REP. KEVIN MCCARTHY (R), HOUSE MAJORITY LEADER: I think I shocked some of you, huh?

KARL (voice-over): -- Republicans are now looking for someone, anyone, to lead them.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Why would anyone want to be Speaker at this point?

REP. BLAKE FARENTHAL (R), TEXAS: That is the $64,000 question.

KARL (voice-over): Many in the GOP are practically begging Congressman Paul Ryan to take the job.

REP. DARRELL ISSA (R), CALIF.: I did everything except carry his gym bag this morning, trying to get him to do it.

KARL (voice-over): The man who would be king insists he doesn't want the crown. But Republicans hope he will have a change of heart.

And one Ryan confidant tells ABC News that seems to be happening. He puts the odds of Ryan running for Speaker at 60 percent. But for a party known for taking who is next in line, this week's Capitol chaos proves just how much the outsiders have taken over. It's a clash that's been building for years.

Those ushered into power by the Tea Party wave taking on the entrenched Washington establishment.

SEN. TED CRUZ (R), TEXAS: Well, in 2010, the American people showed up in enormous numbers. And we got a Republican majority in the House. And very little changed.

KARL (voice-over): Now a Republican Party that gained huge majorities in 2014 is in disarray as real deadlines loom over funding the government and raising the debt limit. Republicans still have their largest House majority since Herbert Hoover was president.

But what good is it when they're so divided?

REP. PETER KING (R), NEW YORK: We can't go on like this where one small group is allowed to hijack the entire House. We have to have a government that works. This is not a debating society.

KARL (voice-over): Congress has been turned upside down by the same forces that are upending the race for the White House. With political experience now a liability, outsiders Donald Trump and Dr. Ben Carson are dominating the 2016 field, no matter what they say or who they offend.

On the campaign trail and in the Capitol, the establishment is on shaky ground, a house of cards trying to avoid collapse. For THIS WEEK, Jonathan Karl, ABC News, Washington.


RADDATZ: Our thanks to Jon.

Joining us now, Jason Chaffetz, Republican of Utah, chair of the House Oversight Committee and a candidate for House Speaker.

Good morning, Chairman Chaffetz.

You have heard the descriptions of what happened this week. "Total confusion," "a banana republic," "turmoil," "crisis," in the party, Chris Christie comparing this to "Game of Thrones."

And "The Washington Post's" Karen Tumulty writing this, "Less than a year after a sweeping electoral triumph, Republicans are on the verge of ceasing to function as national political party."

Mr. Chairman, how do you think Americans should see this?

REP. JASON CHAFFETZ (R), UTAH: Well, that was a little dramatic. Look, we have passed out of the House roughly 200 bills that are sitting over in the U.S. Senate. A lot of our frustration is with the Senate, it's with the president. But we have to change things. We need a fresh start. We have a gulf and a divide that needs to be bridged.

We need a Speaker, I think, who takes the communications realm and drives the discussion in this country about what it is we're standing for and what it is we're trying to do.

And so we're going through that exercise because Speaker Boehner stepped down. And the majority leader decided that we do need a fresh face. That's, in part, why I put my name in for the spot.

RADDATZ: You may be a fresh face.

But do you really think you can bridge this enormous divide?

CHAFFETZ: Somebody's got to do it. I would hope that Paul Ryan would do it. He's said repeatedly that he won't. I do think there are other people that are better qualified.

But I do think I bridge that gap. That's the case that I'm making. If there's somebody better who can unite us, I will support them. But you're either part of the solution or part of the problem. Right or wrong, I have thrown myself in there and said, I think I can do this.

Let me tell you what Congressman Darrell Issa has said. He says you have changed and you have taken a break from holding government accountable. That certainly doesn't sound like it would be easy for you to bridge any gaps.

CHAFFETZ: Well, I don't think that is accurate. We've been very aggressive. People have seen me fighting everything from Fast and Furious to the IRS on Planned Parenthood to a host of things, Benghazi and others. I've earned that reputation over 6.5 years. I have worked closely with my Democratic allies. Elijah Cummings is a good friend. We have done over I think 200 letters now to the administration.

So I do things a little bit differently.


CHAFFETZ: We've been very effective.

RADDATZ: Let's talk about Paul Ryan. You mentioned him. You said if he decides to run, you won't.

Have you spoken to him?

And what do you think the chances are that he will?

CHAFFETZ: No, I think Paul Ryan -- I have not spoken to him. I think he checks every box. He's got the great experience. He's a visionary. He understands the institution. He's a great spokesperson.

One of the things that I think people love is that he puts his family first. He's got young kids. He'll have to make that decision. But I think he would be a wonderful Speaker, just like I thought he would be a great vice president or president.

RADDATZ: Again, some more signs of chaos this morning, however. On Twitter, Joe Miller, the tea partier who beat Lisa Murkowski in the 2010 GOP primary, saying "Paul Ryan is the absolute worst choice for Speaker. It would be putting the prettiest face on the ugliest policies."

And the 40-house Freedom Caucus members, those hard-line conservatives, saying they're still supporting Daniel Webster.

CHAFFETZ: Well, that's why we have these discussions, why we need to have an election. And it's partly why I put myself out there. So we'll see what happens.

RADDATZ: What kind of compromises would you or a Paul Ryan have to make with those real hardliners?

CHAFFETZ: Well, I think from the broad political spectrum, not just the Freedom Caucus, I think there is a need for internal reform, that is how we bring bills up, getting back to regular order, how we offer amendments or don't offer amendments.

Those types of things I think are frustrating to a lot of people. Bills need to move through committee. We need to look at our internal rules package itself.

But I don't think you have to cut a deal with anybody. There's no -- there's no deal that you have to cut. I think I've earned a reputation of being fair and that I'll hear all sides from the entire political spectrum.

And really, the role of the Speaker is to be the constitutional officer that makes sure that the process is fair, it's balanced. We protect minority rights and that we allow these good bills and ideas to percolate from the bottom up, rather than a top-down driven process, where the Speaker is telling the body what to do.

I think the Speaker works for the conference.


RADDATZ: Mr. Chairman, I want to go back to the beginning. You said that was a very dramatic description. It was very dramatic this week. Americans do look at Congress and say, what's going on?

So whether you elect a Speaker right away or not, what do you think the long-term effects of this will be on the Hill and also on 2016?

CHAFFETZ: Look, the American people swept us into power because they wanted results. And we got to take that fight to the Senate. We got to take that fight to the president. And they haven't seen the results.

Again, passing bills out of the House is one step. But we actually have to get those bills on to the president's desk because they don't like the current trajectory.

To suggest it's all on the House Republicans, it's wrong. When they talk about the dysfunction in Washington, D.C., they're also talking about President Obama and they're also talking about the United States Senate.

RADDATZ: I want to ask you quickly about a report this morning, also, that a former staffer on the Benghazi committee says he was fired from that committee because he was told to focus too much on Hillary Clinton instead of finding out answers about Benghazi.

CHAFFETZ: Well, I can tell you. When Benghazi was first going, I was on the ground in Tripoli. I was the first member of Congress to be there. I've been there twice. I have spent a lot of time on Benghazi. Trey Gowdy is running a very professional first-rate organization there. The hearing coming up on October 22nd is absolutely going to be, I think, a first-class presentation, where everybody asks questions.

RADDATZ: Can you talk specifically about this person and why this might have happened, why he says he was fired for that?

CHAFFETZ: I have never met this person. I don't know this person. What I read was the statement from Trey Gowdy and the committee is that it was absolutely false. I believe them. And I don't think it's accurate.

RADDATZ: OK. We'll leave it there. Thank you very much, Mr. Chairman.

Next, the roundtable on Tuesday's big Democratic debate, who will come out on top?

Plus, we got an inside look on the set of "Homeland." The secrets behind the thriller. Coming up.


RADDATZ: Next, what will the 2016 Democratic race look like after the dramatic week ahead?

Will Biden jump in? Can Hillary stop her slide?

Our powerhouse roundtable joins us with their insights.


RADDATZ: Back now, there's Joe Biden out with his family this weekend. So many shockwaves for 2016 if he jumps into the race.

Let's bring in the roundtable.

Senior writer at ESPN and co-host of the ABC digital show, "Straight Talk," LZ Granderson.

Reihan Salaam, executive director of "National Review" online. Mark Halperin, managing editor of Bloomberg Politics and host of "With All Due Respect." And ABC's Cokie Roberts -- and Cokie, I'm going to start with you.

I'm going to go back to this debate that's coming up. The debate is Tuesday. Hillary Clinton is still a formidable candidate.

What do the others do to counter her and just your expectations for (INAUDIBLE)?

COKIE ROBERTS, ABC NEWS POLITICAL ANALYST: Well, she's -- she's a very formidable candidate. When you talk about her sliding, she's still at the top of the polls and she's a very good debater. But so is Bernie Sanders.

And all of them are experienced debaters.

So, you know, there are two dynamics going on. One is the Hillary-Bernie and how do they handle each other. And the other is the also runners, who are eager to use this debate as a way for people to pay attention to them.

They look at how Carly Fiorina did and say that could happen to me.

RADDATZ: You think there are going to be fireworks in this one?


RADDATZ: Maybe not quite as many.

ROBERTS: I think we'll be hearing about flip-flops. I think --


RADDATZ: Ah, and...


RADDATZ: -- and to that point...

ROBERTS: -- that's something that we will be hearing about.

RADDATZ: -- you heard in the piece earlier for the fourth time in less than a month, Hillary Clinton has gone contrary to what President Obama wants or contrary to what she has said in the past -- Keystone Pipeline, Syria no-fly zones, deportations and now the biggest one of all, the Pacific trade deal.

David Brooks wrote in "The New York Times," "This was not only a substantive flip-flop, it was so naked, it amounted to a bold and clarion statement of faith on behalf of flip-flopping itself. It suggested a whole style of campaigning and method of governing based on the principle of unprincipledness."

Flip-flopping as a strategy, Mark Halperin?

MARK HALPERIN, BLOOMBERG POLITICS: Well, look, she's doing two things at once. On foreign policy, she's trying to establish that she is more hawkish and -- and eventually, I think, her campaign and she will say Bernie Sanders is not the same level to be commander-in-chief as she is.

On domestic policy, there is still a great deal of fear on the part of the Clintons that Bernie Sanders is more in line with the party, not just as an outsider and someone saying we're going to have a revolution, but the party would prefer single payer over ObamaCare. The party would prefer to say absolutely not to the Keystone Pipeline. The party would prefer to say trade deals are bad for workers.

She comes into this with some positives, some momentum. Her "Saturday Night Live" appearance was very good. And Kevin McCarthy did more to help her presidential campaign than James Carville...


HALPERIN: -- or Paul Begala combined.

But she's under extraordinary pressure. David Brooks represents the view of the media at large, which is one mistake by Hillary Clinton in this debate will be the only story. She knows that.

RADDATZ: OK, let's go beyond the debate, maybe way off -- way beyond the debate and Joe Biden possibly jumping in, possibly making a decision this week, clearly not in time for the debate.

What -- what does it do to the race, LZ?

LZ GRANDERSON, ESPN & CNN CORRESPONDENT: Well, I think it forces the American people, particularly the left, to figure out whether or not they want an Obama third term, because no matter what he says, no matter what sort of policies he sort of spins out there, the reality is, it's going to appear like more of the same.

And he needs to figure out whether or not the American people want more of the same or if the left, anyway, wants more of the same.

That's the reason why you see Hillary flip-flop the way that she does...


GRANDERSON: -- because she recognizes the fact that she's going to look as if she's more Obama and she's trying to separate herself from doing that.

RADDATZ: And what kind of candidate would we have in Joe Biden?

You heard this week he wanted that draft Biden ad, that very emotional ad that draft Biden was going to put on, he did not want that on, because it was too emotional.

When people look at Joe Biden, a lot of them say that's the appeal, that's the Joe Biden we want in the race.

So how does he run?

REIHAN SALAM, EXECUTIVE EDITOR, "NATIONAL REVIEW" ONLINE: Well, I think that his appeal -- his distinctive appeal among Democrats has always been this idea that he apply -- he appeals to a white working class voter that other Democrats can't reach. And when you look at the 2012 race, actually, 56 percent of Democratic votes came from non-Hispanic whites. That was a very heavily minority coalition.

Now, this time around, if a Democratic candidate can win more of those white working class votes while retaining minority voters, that candidate will be very, very formidable.

So I think that that's a -- a really key part of Biden's appeal, that he gets to those kind of Midwestern, Mid-Atlantic kind of voters that other candidates have a harder time reaching.

ROBERTS: Except Republicans have an easy time reaching. And so, you know, that's -- it's tough for Democrats to win those voters at all.

Look, Joe Biden has got Cecilia Vegas, a lovely person, and lots of other press people staked out on his doorstep. He walks out this morning -- on a Sunday morning.

Does he say oh, dear Lord, do I want to have this going on again?


RADDATZ: Or get out of my way or...


ROBERTS: Jokingly.

Or does he walk out and say this is cool, I like this attention?

I mean those are the kinds of calculations that will be going on.

RADDATZ: Quickly, Mark, does he get in?

HALPERIN: He wants to be president. He would -- I think he would be a better president than Hillary Clinton. I still think the personal is weighing on him quite...

RADDATZ: Of course it is.

HALPERIN: -- quite a bit. And that, to me, in the end, will be the deciding factor.

RADDATZ: And that will be there forever.

OK, we're just getting started.

But time for a quick break and our Powerhouse Puzzler.

Who is the only speaker of the House of Representatives to go on to become president?


RADDATZ: So who was the only speaker of the house to become president? Let's see what you all came up with and if anyone has the correct answer.

Ford. Maybe? John Quincy Adams. President Garfield.

Just go with the old guys and you'll have a chance.



Aero. Zero. Everybody shut out.

ROBERTS: Was it Polk? Was it Polk?

RADDATZ: It was Polk.

You should have gone with taht instinct. The answer is President James K. Polk, our 11th president. He served as speaker from 1835 to 1839.

Back after this with presidential candidate Bobby Jindal, live in Iowa.


RADDATZ: There's Paul Ryan on Capitol Hill this week. Will he solve the leadership chaos for Republicans in congress right now? We know it's having an impact on the 2016 campaign trail, too. Louisiana governor and presidential candidate Bobby Jindal served in the House of Representatives and joins us now from a beautiful morning in Iowa. Good morning, Governor Jindal.

You have been...


RADDATZ: You have been particularly critical of Republicans in congress, saying again and again that you're angrier with them than the Democrats and saying that Republicans must stop being the stupid party.

What did this week tell you about the Republican Party?

JINDAL: Martha, look, the congress is at 12 percent in the polls. I think they're determined to bring those numbers even lower.

Here's the slogan for the Republican Party in D.C. they've become the party of I can't, instead of the party of we can, we must, and we will.

You look at issue after issue, they said give them the majority, and they would stop Obamacare and amnesty, they didn't do that. This year, they've already given up the fight fighting against Planned Parenthood and fighting against this bad Iran deal.

I think the American people are very, very frustrated. They want the Republican Party to fight for them. The Senate is even worse. The Senate makes the House look good by comparison. In the Senate, why won't the Republicans do away with the filibuster rule to force a vote on the Iran deal? Use the nuclear option to stop Iran from becoming a nuclear power?

So, just when you thought it couldn't get worse, it look like the House Republicans and the Republicans in D.C. are determined to drive their numbers even lower.

RADDATZ: So, who do you think would be the best speaker?

JINDAL: Well, look, I don't think it's about personalities, I think it's who is going to go to the conference and say I'm willing to fight for our beliefs?

The reality is, look, I don't like what Pelosi and Reid and Obama have done to our country, but I do admire the fact they fought to get Obamacare done. They are fighting to shove what I would call socialism down our throats.

When Harry Reid lost his 60th vote, he didn't give up on Obamacare. When he lost his 60th vote, he didn't give up on getting the president's judges confirmed. The problem with the Republicans in D.C. they all seem to give up before the fight starts.

I've said your choice right now in D.C. is honest socialist on the left, lying conservatives on the right who say one thing when they campaign, they do another thing when they're actually elected when it's time to govern. So, it's not about personalities, it's about a speaker who will say I'm willing to fight for conservative principles. I'm willing to fight just as hard or even harder than Pelosi who is willing to fight for her believes.

RADDATZ: Is that Paul Ryan? Would you support Paul Ryan?

JINDAL: I like Paul a lot. He's a friend. He's principled. He's intelligent. The reality though, for me, it's not about personalities, it's will Paul look at the conference and tell them he's willing to go and fight the way I've just described? Will he bring the backbone to the conference?

So, I like Paul a lot, but the question is what commitment will the next speaker make to the conference about fighting for our beliefs?

Martha, this is a critical time for our country. The idea of America is slipping away. I want folks in D.C. that have that sense of urgency.

I'd also like to see them fight for things like term limits. I think folks are tired of these lifelong politicians that pass one set of rules for themselves and another set of rules for the rest of us.

RADDATZ: I want to turn to the 2016 race and your race, where you stand on certain issues. You were a supporter of training Syrian rebels, that has been a complete failure. They're not going to do that anymore. The Obama administration said, essentially that it wasn't working. So what would work?

JINDAL: Well, Martha, look. Bad policy, bad leadership leads to bad options. They reality is they dithered. They waited so long that we have got fewer good options.

If they had aggressively trained those rebels in the beginning, if they had armed and trained the Kurds, we'd be in a different place. You wouldn't have Putin and Assad working with Hezbollah and Iran.

What will work today is...

RADDATZ: But how do you train rebels who were there to fight Assad to suddenly want to fight ISIS? That's the main problem with those Syrian rebels.

JINDAL: Well, no, Martha the Kurdish rebels, the Kurdish forces have been very effective at fighting ISIS in Kobani, in Iraq and elsewhere, but we're not providing them with modern arms. We're insisting on going through the Baghdad government. So -- and the Kurds have been a very effective force.

Secondly, we need to enforce that no-fly. We need to create a no-fly zone, working with our Turkish and other allies. Our Sunni allies want to do more, but they're not going to go after ISIS if that merely leaves Assad in power. they want want Assad in power. They don't want...

RADDATZ; Let's talk about a no-fly zone. ISIS doesn't have aircraft. So, what would that no-fly zone really accomplish? When has it really worked?

JINDAL: Well, it accomplishes a couple of things. Number one, it helps to stabilize the region, so you don't have all these refugees flooding into Europe and trying to leave the country.

Secondly, it gives us space for moderates, for Kurds and others, to group and to plan attacks against ISIS, against Assad.

Third, it keeps Russia from bombing our allies, the folks that we're working with.

It shows our Sunni allies in the region that we're serious about winning this. We're here because this president drew a red line, didn't enforce it. We're here because this president has put political handcuffs on the military, won't let them go after ISIS and get the job done.


RADDATZ: Let's talk about -- let's talk about more ground troops. That certainly would help any sort of no-fly zone. You're not going to have them there, those ground troops there.

Would you send in and how many troops approximately into Syria, U.S. troops?

JINDAL: Well, look, Martha, I don't think you think -- take any option off the table. If the military says we need ground troops to wipe out ISIS, we've got to be -- as commander in chief, you have got to be open to that option.

The reality is this president said -- went to the Pentagon and said, well, we're going to have change hearts and minds. This will take a generation. We can't beat ISIS with guns.

Martha, that's nonsense. These are radical Islamic terrorists that are burning people alive, crucifying, killing Christians and other religious minorities. We can't negotiate with them. We have got to hunt them down and kill them before they attack us here so --


RADDATZ: You don't think that's what they're doing now?

We've had thousands and thousands of airstrikes. ISIS is not a traditional army. The reason -- and I've been out on an aircraft carrier. I have seen those jets coming back with their bombs still attached because they can't drop bombs in congested areas. They can't risk killing innocent civilians in those areas.

So even though you may want to go after it in a much fuller way, how do you do that with that kind of group?

JINDAL: Martha, I don't think we have fought this war. No, I disagree. I think if this president were serious, we could wipe them out. I think that the reality is, he's is discouraging -- we have seen the Kurds been effective. You've seen Turkey and other allies want to do more. But they're worried that if they -- if they go out and take out ISIS and Assad remains in power, it empowers a Shia power in Iran.

They don't want to do that. I think there are more things that we can be doing. I think our military could be much more effective. I think they have got political handcuffs on them. It makes no sense for us to insist that everything has to go through the central government in Baghdad when we have got Sunni tribes and Kurdish allies on the ground --


RADDATZ: OK, Governor --

JINDAL: -- been effective before, can be effective again.

RADDATZ: -- OK, Governor. I want to turn quickly, if we could, to domestic issues.

You got in some hot water earlier this week about the shooting in Roseburg, Oregon, for -- essentially blaming this shooter's father, writing, "This killer's father is now lecturing us on the need for gun control. He is not and has not been in his son's life. He's a complete failure as a father, he should be embarrassed to even show his face in public. He's the problem here."

You really believe he's responsible for this mass shooting?

JINDAL: Martha, I absolutely believe he has no right to be lecturing the rest of us. Look, gun control is not going to solve this.


RADDATZ: But do you really know enough about that family to blame that father?

JINDAL: Martha, let me finish. We have got a moral decay going on in our culture. We've got graphic violence in our movies, our video games, our TV shows. We have got senseless violence being depicted in our songs. We've got a culture that doesn't value life. We've got millions of boys growing up without father figures, without that guidance at home.

Too often, these shooters are misguided young men. And so you've got Hillary Clinton, Barack Obama and now this shooter's father, lecturing us on the need for gun control.

He doesn't need to be lecturing us. He, by his own admission, didn't know how his son got those guns, didn't know how many guns his son had, by his own admission wasn’t involved in his son's life, hadn't been communicating with him since he was living with his mother.

He doesn't need to be lecturing us on gun control. We need to fix our culture. We need a renaissance of decency. We need a spiritual revival in this country. Passing more laws to take away the rights of law-abiding Americans won't solve this problem, won't stop the next massacre, won't stop the next tragedy.

RADDATZ: OK. Thank you very much for joining us this morning, Governor Jindal. You're going to have a great day out there, I'm sure.Next, how will the congressional chaos end? The roundtable weighs in.



UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: I'm Hispanic and I vote for Mr. Trump! We vote for Mr. Trump! Yes! Mr. Trump! We love you! We love you! All the way to the White House!

DONALD TRUMP (R), PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: I swear to you -- I think she's totally beautiful and great. I never met her before, I swear.


RADDATZ: Donald Trump out on the campaign trail this week. And we certainly learned outsiders like Trump are in charge. Republicans in Congress still searching for a Speaker.

Back now with the roundtable.

And, Mark, I want to go to you first. And --



RADDATZ: Yes, that just all speaks for itself.

So Mark, tell me. Do you think Paul Ryan is going to get in the race?

HALPERIN: You know, Joe Biden and Paul Ryan's decisions have one thing in common which is that neither of them has decided yet. The difference between them is Joe Biden is thinking about going for a job he's wanted his whole life.

Paul Ryan has no interest in this job. He's being pressured. He's already talked this weekend repeatedly to John Boehner, to Kevin McCarthy. Mitch McConnell has made a point to Ryan directly, if you don't run for Speaker, we could lose the Senate because no one unless can step up and stop the chaos.

He's under a lot of pressure. I think his wife is in a similar position to Joe Biden's wife, which is, I don't want you to do this but if you want to do it, I'll be with you.

In the end --

RADDATZ: Ryan has very young children.

HALPERIN: Yes, he has young children. You know, they're trying to make deals with him that will undermine the way the speakership is operated. They're basically saying, you don't want to raise money on the weekends, we'll find someone else to do that.

You need help running the House, we'll find someone else to do that. Ryan is a policy guy. The Speaker is a political job. This is not a -- it's not a great match.


ROBERTS: (INAUDIBLE). So there was one day in the 16th century when two speakers of the House of Commons were beheaded on the same day.

RADDATZ: We should have had that as the puzzler.

ROBERTS: So that was really tough job to fill at that point, when two were beheaded on the same day.

But he's feeling the same way.

What is the mileage in saying yes to this, other than the fact that everybody in the party is begging him to?

RADDATZ: But let's look at the bigger picture.

What kind of reset do the Republicans really need in Congress?

SALAM: Well, honestly, the fundamental problem is that the leadership does not have leverage over members. And this is a big structural problem that flows in the fact that the campaign finance regulation system works very differently.

It also flows from the fact that now you have this talk of rule changes where, right now, I could offer you a carrot of a seat on a committee that's valuable or whatever else.

And now they're trying to take away all of that power. If all of that power is gone, if it's every man for himself, every woman for herself, then you just don't have any discipline. It's completely unmanageable. You need the Speaker, whoever that Speaker happens to be, to have the ability to extend favors and to take them back.


HALPERIN: But Ryan will not negotiate for this. McCarthy tried to negotiate for the job, including with the Freedom Caucus, and say what do you need to get -- to get your support for this?

Ryan will not do that.

RADDATZ: And they will know that.

HALPERIN: If they come to him by acclamation, I think he'll do it. But I'm not sure they will --


GRANDERSON: Here's a person who ran for the number two position. He has to figure out if being number three gets me to my ultimate goal, which I think he may still have presidential aspirations. And if he goes after number three, he's not going to get number one because he'll have too many enemies when it's all said and done.

RADDATZ: I want to read you something that struck me this week Chris Lizza (ph) wrote in "The Washington Post".

"There is a revolution happening within the Republican Party right now. The establishment's hold on power is more tenuous than it has ever been in any time in recent memory. There is no one currently in office that can claim with any credibility that he or she speaks for the party as a whole."


GRANDERSON: I think that pretty much sums it up, doesn't it?

What I don't understand --

RADDATZ: You just said, that's exactly right, Chris.


ROBERTS: Except that these people don't have the votes. They keep talking about, the American people did this, the American people did that. The American people put about 40 of them in office. And there are 247.

GRANDERSON: But they have to field the primaries.

RADDATZ: So who do the American people punish for this?

HALPERIN: The irony is, if they got their act together, if they found a Speaker, punted most of these issues through the election, in January 2017, they could have the White House, the Senate and the House. That's the irony.

People talk about them being in chaos and panic. If they can finesse through the election, find the right nominee for president, they could be in a strong position.

ROBERTS: It's a big if. That's a big if.

HALPERIN: Well, it is a big if but its' not impossible. It just takes a few strong people, one strong Speaker, one strong presidential nominee. And they could do it.

The problem is an agenda. John Boehner had a lot of strengths as Speaker. He did not drive an agenda. They need someone more like Newt Gingrich, who can talk about what does the party stand for for the middle class?

RADDATZ: Very, very quickly --

GRANDERSON: Did you just say more like Newt Gingrich? I'm thinking that would --

HALPERIN: Not in every way. Not in every way.

RADDATZ: Is there going to be a government shutdown, very quickly?

ROBERTS: Could easily be. Could easily be.

RADDATZ: Makes it much, much more likely, right?

HALPERIN: Unless John Boehner is willing to throw himself on the altar of sacrifice and do this with Nancy Pelosi, there will be.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks to all of you.

Behind the scenes at "Homeland" is coming up next after this from our ABC stations.


RADDATZ: Now to the economy, still recovering from that financial crisis back in 2008. And the man in charge of the powerful Federal Reserve back then is speaking out about what went wrong.

His response and what we still need to do.

Ben Bernanke is out with a new back, "The Courage to Act."

And earlier this week, he talked to George.


GEORGE W. BUSH, FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: This is a pivotal moment for America's economy.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC HOST: When you look back, what do you think is the single most important thing you got right, the decision that made the biggest difference?

BEN BERNANKE, FORMER CHAIRMAN, FEDERAL RESERVE: Well, the decision we got right was to -- there were some folks who said, you know, let the financial system fail, it's just Wall Street, we don't care, it's not going to affect the U.S. economy.

And our view was that we needed to prevent the financial system from collapsing.

STEPHANOPOULOS: But you couldn't be -- completely avoid the public debate at the time. You write about walking by cars and seeing the bumper sticker, "Where's my."..

BERNANKE: Absolutely.

STEPHANOPOULOS: -- "bailout?"

BERNANKE: "Where's My Bailout?" yes.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You understand that anger.

BERNANKE: Of course I understand it. I mean first of all, it seems -- it was inherent unfair that Wall Street was getting help, you know, before Main Street was. Office, our motives were to try to protect Main Street. But in the end, you know, Main Street took a pretty big hit, as well.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Do you think there's something wrong with a system where the only way to save Main Street is to bailout multi-millionaires?

BERNANKE: Well, first of all, you know, bailing out is a little bit of a strong word, because the owners of Bear Stearns, for example, the shareholders, lost most -- most or all of their wealth. What we were just trying to do was keep these firms from just collapsing and bringing everything down with them.

But back to the fact, you know, after the crisis was over, it was incredibly important that we take whatever steps necessary to make sure it doesn't happen again and to make sure that no firm is too big to fail.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Bernie Sanders said you failed.


SEN. BERNIE SANDERS (I-VT), DEMOCRATIC PRESIDENTIAL CANDIDATE: Can anybody deny with a straight face that the Fed and its chairman, Mr. Bernanke, failed at its task?

They failed.


STEPHANOPOULOS: What do you make of that?

BERNANKE: Well, I think that I understand the anger. I understand that politicians are going to respond to the public's concern about the economy, about their own jobs and so on. I understand that.

But I think that substantively that they were mistaken.

STEPHANOPOULOS: You also write that Bernie Sanders basically is a conspiracy theories.

Is that what you believe?

BERNANKE: I don't want to get into individual politicians, but there are...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Well, you write about it in your book. You say...


STEPHANOPOULOS: -- he sees conspiracies out there.

BERNANKE: Well, I mean I think there is a sense that in -- in the public in general that if anything bad happens, it's got to be because some evil person willed it to happen and having been inside the government now, I can tell you, a lot of things -- bad things that happen happen because people make mistakes or just don't make the right choice, rather than being actively trying to, you know, hurt the economy. That's not usually what happens.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Most Americans, even though there's been a fairly strong recovery over the last few years, don't feel it. And they think the system is rigged for the wealthy.

Are they right?

BERNANKE: Well, it's certainly true that the wealthy and the higher income people have enjoyed a disproportionate part of the gains as the economy has recovered. And this is not a new thing. And...

STEPHANOPOULOS: What can be done about that?

BERNANKE: It takes a sustained effort. And it could be improved, certainly, and I could give you a long list of policies...

STEPHANOPOULOS: Just give me three.

BERNANKE: I'll give you three. Better training and skills. You know, getting people up to -- to the point where they can compete in a global economy.

Public infrastructure. Research and development. I think the government needs to continue to support R&D to help improve our technical knowledge and to keep America in first place globally in technological advances.

STEPHANOPOULOS: Mr. Chairman, thanks very much.

BERNANKE: Thank you for having me.


RADDATZ: And our thanks to George.

We're back after this.


RADDATZ: Now, a rare look inside "Homeland," the Emmy winning show always packed with imagined action-filled plot lines that seem a lot more like the real CIA's mission list. And we went behind the scenes.




CLAIRE DANES, ACTOR, "HOMELAND": I wasn't CIA. I'm a private citizen.


RADDATZ (voice-over): "Homeland's" newest season, set in Germany, begins with a twist. Former CIA operative Carrie Mathison, played by Claire Danes, has given up trying to save the world for domestic bliss.

DANES: Carrie has morphed into a happy person.



DANES: Pigs are flying. She's just fully surrendered to domesticity and -- and having a great time with it.


DANES: -- for about five minutes.


DANES: Did you forget the key?


RADDATZ (voice-over): On the set in Berlin, Carrie's former CIA colleague, Saul Berenson, Mandy Patinkin, is not getting much relief, either.

But like the character he plays, Patinkin is as tight-lipped as any real CIA operative...



PATINKIN: So he's back in the game and the stuff starts hitting the fan right away and then everything gets woven into a web of endless varieties, of which I can't really tell you very much.

RADDATZ (on camera): This is such a great description of nothing.


RADDATZ: Because...

PATINKIN: I can't tell you anything.

RADDATZ: You can tell me nothing.

PATINKIN: Yes, I might as well be a presidential candidate, or a president.

RADDATZ (voice-over): Patinkin's dry sense of humor in person is so different from his character's tortured persona. But Patinkin has very strong views about foreign policy that in some ways mirror his character, opening up about his views in a very personal and surprising way.

PATINKIN: I hope there's something people learn from "Homeland." I hope there's something being taught about when we act on our own arrogance and thinking that we're right, what happens. People make mistakes. Fathers, mothers...


RADDATZ (voice-over): That song from the musical "Into the Woods," points out that even mythical heroes can have flaws, much like Saul Berenson on "Homeland."

And Patinkin has studied that character very carefully, with some real world help.

PATINKIN: I met with -- with Brennan at the CIA.

RADDATZ: He means the real CIA director, John Brennan.

PATINKIN: He holds it all tight. He doesn't give up very much. But he wanted me to see his heart. And he wanted me to see that these CIA guys, these guys that got a lot of heat, that they're human beings.

What I love about "Homeland" is at their best, like Shakespeare, to show both sides fully. So whoever the enemy is, and on both sides I think we're all -- we're all the enemy and we're all not the enemy.

RADDATZ (on camera): We're all good and evil?

PATINKIN: All of us. And when we do that, that's the game. And if people feel that they're being paid attention to, if they are being listened to, if they are being respected, I think the world will change. Freedom, justice and dignity.


RADDATZ: Season five of "Homeland" is airing now on Showtime.

That's all for us today. Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Check out "WORLD NEWS TONIGHT." And we'll see you back here next week.

Have a great day.

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