Peter Jennings Interviews Salem Chalabi
B A G H D A D, Iraq, June 30, 2004 -- When the United States handed legal custody of Saddam Hussein to the new interim Iraqi government, one man personally told him about his change in status — and he said the former Iraqi dictator was a shadow of the powerful figure he once was.
"He had lost weight," Salem Chalabi, director of Iraq's Special Tribunal, told ABC News' Peter Jennings in an exclusive on-camera interview in Baghdad. "He was not the towering figure that one used to see on TV before. He was nervous — physically nervous — because he did not know what was happening."
The United States' handover of Saddam and 11 of his deputies today to Iraqi legal custody changes their status from prisoners of war to criminal defendants to be tried in Iraqi court. It was the first step toward trying the ex-leader of Iraq on charges that are expected to include the massacre of Kurds in 1988, the invasion of Kuwait in 1990, the subsequent squelching of the 1991 Shiite uprising in southern Iraq and the slayings of various opposition figures to his regime.
First Step to Trial
Chalabi had never met Saddam before today's brief encounter. He admitted he was nervous but said Saddam was not the disheveled, heavily bearded prisoner that the world last saw when he was captured by U.S. forces in December.
"It was a surreal experience," Chalabi said. "But he was dressed in Arab gear and was kept in a different place to the others. His hair is a bit long — not terribly long, but longer than I had seen before. Black, not gray, and he didn't have a beard."
Saddam, Chalabi said, was brought into a tiny room that included himself, an Iraqi judge and four U.S. officials. The former Iraqi dictator sat down as if he was accustomed to receiving people. When he looked up, Chalabi said, the judge told him, "You are no longer in U.S. custody. You are now in Iraqi custody. Good morning."
According to Chalabi, Saddam appeared nervous and agitated when he heard he was being transferred from U.S. legal custody to Iraqi custody. His deputies appeared similarly surprised, and the first question many of them asked was, "Do I get a lawyer?"
All of the prisoners, said Chalabi, were told yes.
Saddam, however, is already represented by French attorney Jacques Verges. Verges told ABC News that Hussein believes he is still the sovereign leader of Iraq and cannot be put on trial.
Chalabi also described the reactions of Saddam's deputies. Sabr Adhouri, a former head of intelligence, became nervous when he heard the news of the arraignment and began to stutter, according to Chalabi.
Ali Hassan al-Majid, a former top Saddam lieutenant known as "Chemical Ali," came into the room in a good mood, Chalabi said.
"He had a cane. He walked in a very joyful mood, saying greetings to everybody and so on," Chalabi said. "And as the judge was reading him his rights and explaining to him the situation, he started panicking and was then led out."
Al-Majid faces charges that he gassed Iraqi villagers in the late 1980s.
A Public Display for Iraqis
Saddam and the other defendants are expected to appear in Iraqi court Thursday for the formal reading of the charges. However, he will remain in a U.S.-controlled jail guarded by American guards for his own safety and until Iraqi officials are ready to take physical custody of him. His physical transfer to Iraqi custody is not expected to take place for some time.
Officials tell ABC News that they intend to make the first court appearance of Saddam and his deputies very public so that the Iraqi people can see for themselves what has happened to the man who led their country for almost 24 years. Even after Saddam's capture, many Iraqis could not bring themselves to believe that he was in U.S. custody.
Some believe that he had just disappeared altogether, that there was an American plot to get him out of the country or that he was living in Europe. Seeing Saddam arraigned on television in an Iraqi court, interim government officials feel, will convince the people that a new chapter has begun in their country.