Top Iraqi Official: The War's Going Well

B A G H D A D, Iraq, March 30, 2003 -- Iraqi Deputy Prime Minister Tariq Aziz, in an exclusive interview with ABCNEWS, said there will be more attacks like the suicide bombing Saturday that killed four U.S. soldiers, and said the war is going very well from the Iraqi point of view.

In an interview today in the bomb-blighted Iraqi capital, Aziz told ABCNEWS' Richard Engel that Iraqi President Saddam Hussein is alive, and that he remains the legitimate ruler of Iraq.

The following is a transcript of the interview, part of which is being shown on ABCNEWS' World News Tonight. This is an unedited, uncorrected transcript subject to future revisions.

ABCNEWS' RICHARD ENGEL: So I just wanted to first of all ask you, thank you very much for meeting me and having this discussion. And I wanted to — I heard a very chilling comment that was by the vice president yesterday and then again by the defense minister, defense spokesman today, he said that Iraq is really welcoming the use of suicide attacks and it seems like a very chilling development for a lot of Americans — is this a new policy? Is this going to be …

TARIQ AZIZ, DEPUTY PRIME MINISTER OF IRAQ: This is not a new policy, the people which is being threatened by an invasion has the right to fight by all means to defend itself. This is one of the means to defend Iraq against the invaders. So it is welcome, yes it is welcome.

The Arabs and Muslims are wholeheartedly supporting Iraq and they know that this is an unjust war. A war of aggression, colonialist, imperialist war against Iraq and against them as well therefore they are ready to join forces with the Iraqi people to fight the invaders and that is very natural. It is not a surprise to me it might be a surprise to the Americans, the British, but this is not a surprise to the Arabs and the Muslims.

ENGEL: You know they're going to say you're recruiting terrorists?

AZIZ: No, you know — the question of terrorists, when you fight an invader by whatever means available to you, you are not a terrorist, you are a hero.

ENGEL: But you're bringing these people from outside — you're finding —

AZIZ: From outside, from inside, these people are heroes, they are freedom fighters against invaders, against colonialists, against imperialists — they are freedom fighters and heroes and we are proud of them.

ENGEL: Where are you … where are you finding them? Are these people disgruntled, angry people?

But the first one, you said, but there will be more?

AZIZ: They are where they are, they are where they are you see we have — they volunteer themselves to come to Iraq and we welcome them. But the Iraqis are doing it also, the first one who did it was an Iraqi. He was not a foreigner. There will be others. Iraqis, Arabs, maybe Muslims, yes. We welcome them.

ENGEL: Now what about, you know, Osama bin Laden, and Iraq has repeatedly said there's no connections. These aren't al Qaeda, ex-al Qaeda people who've been running away?

AZIZ: We have no connection with Osama Bin Laden and those people are not connected with Osama bin Laden. No, no, no, not at all, they are just people who see that what is happening is unjust this is an imperialist invasion of a Muslim and Arab country and they wholeheartedly support Iraq. It's a very natural phenomenon — you shouldn't be surprised of that.

ENGEL: How is the, how's the war going? How do you think it's going form Iraq's perspective?

AZIZ: The war is going very well as far as we see it and as far as the realities are. And I tell you that this war was based on bluff and based on … wrong calculations based on lies and deceptions by the Americans and the British. They are surprised that the Iraqi people are resisting them courageously with a great determination to deter them so we are not surprised — we expected that we said that — I myself, I talked to … a significant number of American journalists and TVs and I told them, I told them that the Iraqi people are going to fight back. One of them told me that she said the Iraqis will receive American troops with music and flowers … I believe she was deceiving himself. The Iraqis are going to receive the invaders with bullets. So it is not a surprise to us.

The surprise on the other side and I tell you I have, I don't want to be rude, I'm really astonished to the degree of shallowness in which the American and British military and political leadership are dealing with the course of the war. They are making cheap lies, you see, which are unbelievable and they are betting on imaginary things which do not exist.

This afternoon, just this afternoon, Tommy Franks says that he doesn't know whether Saddam Hussein is dead or alive. Other person speaking about Saddam Hussein leaving the country to Syria …

ENGEL: What evidence — we never see Saddam Hussein; we've only seen some cassettes —

AZIZ: Saddam Hussein is seen by the people who should see him. The leadership and those who are fighting the enemy. Saddam Hussein is the president. I was with him yesterday, we appeared on television. But he is not going to go to places where he could be attacked by the Americans and the British, he is intelligent enough to know that this is one of the traps which are being made to catch a leader, you see.

Saddam Hussein is an experienced commander in chief, he was a leader of Iraq and leader of the Iraqi armed air force during eight years of war with Iran. When he was personally targeted by the Iranians and he was also targeted in 1991 so he knows how to behave.

ENGEL: So … so he was targeted at the first day of the war? By the Americans?

AZIZ: They say that. He was not in that place, he was not in that place. They are bluffing and they are actually — what astonishes me is that maybe in times of war people would make some lies, make some deceptions in order to discourage the enemy for grander reasons, for psychological reasons. But what is happening now, and I tell you, I don't want to be rude — when I listen to what they say I laugh.

Because they are cheating themselves, they are deceiving themselves. They are of course cheating and deceiving the public opinion in Britain and the United States and some sectors of the world but they, their statements are laughable.

This is not out of an ideological point of view. Of course, ideologically, we have different views. I'm speaking on professional basis. I'm a politician, I was a journalist. You want to market to sell something you have to make it believable. What they are trying to sell to the American public opinion and to the international community is unbelievable. It's cheap lies. Shallow lies, you see.

And every day, every day they are giving more and more evidence to that, you see. And shamelessly. When the prime minister of Britain says two prisoners were shot by the Iraqi army and appeared later even by his own sources and not by Iraqi sources that they were killed in the battlefield. How a prime minister of an important country like Britain would participate in this campaign of deceit?

ENGEL: So you don't believe what they're saying. But ultimately, do you really think you're going to win? Even if you don't believe what they're saying, do you really think at the end of the day Iraq is going to win?

AZIZ: Victory, victory, I tell you one thing, you have to be specific when you speak about victory in this conflict.

ENGEL: Victory would be removing you and your president and his two sons — well, not you, specifically …

AZIZ: The victory for Iraq is that they deter the invasion. When we succeed in crushing the invasion and when we compel the invaders to leave our country, that is the victory, the victory because we're not fighting the Americans and the British on open land, you see.

We're fighting them in our own land, on our own territory. They are invaders. When we succeed in deterring them, when we succeed in inflicting too many losses on them, and in the end they will find themselves obliged to stop and withdraw. That's a great victory.

ENGEL: So you're prepared to make this last for years? For months? For as long as is nec —

AZIZ: We are prepared to do it, to make it as long as it takes. This is our country; we're not going to leave it to the invaders. We'll fight as long as it takes us to fight.

ENGEL: What about the idea — the U.S. administration says that if you just removed Saddam Hussein and his two sons, no one else in his administration, you could have a new country, open the doors — a new economy?

How can he be the legitimate leader, there was elections that no one believed in …

AZIZ: You know all this nonsense. We cannot accept all this nonsense. Saddam Hussein is legitimate leader of Iraq.

You don't believe it. But we believe in it you see because it was demonstrated in front of the whole Iraqi nation, it was demonstrated in front of foreign journalists, you don't believe it you have a different mentality. Believe Rumsfeld — if you are happy with your government, believe what Bush is saying, believe what Rumsfeld is saying, believe what Tony Blair is saying — that's up to you and you'll find in the end who's the loser in this competition. We believe in it Saddam Hussein is our legitimate leader — he has all right to continue to be the leader. The Iraqi people want him to be their leader, the Iraqi armed forces wants him to be their leader he will continue to be leader of Iraq no matter what Bush or Blair or the others think or wish.

ENGEL: So how else can we end this war — does Iraq see a solution?

AZIZ: We can end this war when the invaders withdraw totally and unconditionally from the Iraqi territory.

ENGEL: Nothing less.

AZIZ: Nothing less.

We're not going to beg for a cease-fire as long as there's one soldier in our territory. Cease-fire OK, end of war OK, but with complete unconditional withdrawal and with decision to leave.

This war could be ended easily when they stop and withdraw completely and be accountable for crimes they did against Iraqi people. That will be the end of the war.