Rumsfeld vs. Hecklers: Factcheck
May 4, 2005 — -- Appearing before Atlanta's Southern Center for International Studies, a place he has visited many times, Defense Secretary Donald Rumsfeld faced several hecklers and a persistent questioner who pointedly asked him if he'd lied about weapons of mass destruction in Iraq.
After one of the hecklers was escorted out, Rumsfeld calmly said, "The idea that people in government are lying ... is dead wrong and untrue."
An earlier heckler prompted Rumsfeld to use one of his favorite lines: "I think we can count her as undecided."
Former CIA analyst and administration critic Ray McGovern went toe-to-toe with Rumsfeld during the question-and-answer portion of the talk.
"I would like to ask you to be upfront with the American people. Why did you lie to get us into a war that was not necessary, that has caused these kinds of casualties? Why?" McGovern asked.
"Well, first of all, I haven't lied. I did not lie then," Rumsfeld replied. "Colin Powell didn't lie. He spent weeks and weeks with the Central Intelligence Agency people and prepared a presentation that I know he believed was accurate and he presented that to the United Nations. The president spent weeks and weeks with the CentralIntelligence people and he went to the American people and made a presentation. I'm not in the intelligence business. They gave the world their honest opinion. It appears that there were not weapons of mass destruction there."
McGovern continued to challenge Rumsfeld: "You said you, you knew where they were."
"I did not. I said I knew where suspect sites were," Rumsfeld said.
"And you said you knew where they were -- Tikrit, Baghdad, northeast, south, west of there. Those are your words," McGovern said.
FACTCHECK: This comes from a statement Rumsfeld made on ABC News' "This Week" on March 30, 2003. Rumsfeld's quote back then: "The area in the south and the west and the north that coalition forces control is substantial. It happens not to be the area where weapons of mass destruction were dispersed. We know where they are. They're in the area around Tikrit and Baghdad and east, west, south and north somewhat."
McGovern also wanted Rumsfeld to clarify the "bulletproof allegation" of al Qaeda's ties to Saddam Hussein's regime.
Rumsfeld replied with his pat answer that Zarqawi was in the north and went to Baghdad during the prewar period. McGovern countered that Zarqawi was in a no-man's land to the north, beyond Hussein's control and that he had gone to Baghdad to seek medical attention.
FACTCHECK: The question is based on a statement Rumsfeld made on Sept. 27, 2002, to the Atlanta Chamber of Commerce. Rumsfeld said he'd met with his deputy Paul Wolfowitz and other top aides the week before to figure out a way to declassify some of the information about Iraq-al Qaeda links.
From The New York Times on Sept. 28, 2002: Rumsfeld said intelligence analysts came back with "five or six sentences" that were "bulletproof" and could be cited in briefings with allies, lawmakers and the public.
"But they're not photographs," Rumsfeld said today. "They're not beyond a reasonable doubt. They, in some cases, are assessments from a limited number of sources."
At an Oct. 24, 2002, Pentagon briefing, Rumsfeld explained himself this way: "I have every reason to believe that what the Central Intelligence Agency gave me is correct. And that's why I said it's bulletproof. Because I said, 'Tell me what you know,' and they told me what they knew. And I said, 'Fine. Tell me, when I get all these questions from the press, what I can say. What's unclassified, what could we present.' And they gave me this that I read. And it's just that simple."