Dean: Bush Is 'Front-runner'

Dec. 23, 2003 -- Leading Democratic presidential candidate Howard Dean, in an exclusive interview with ABCNEWS' Reena Singh, called President Bush the "frontrunner" heading into 2004 but vowed to fight by building an army of energized grassroots supporters.

Singh spoke with the former Vermont governor Monday night in between campaign stops in New Hampshire. Here is a partial transcript of their conversation:

Facing a Strong Challenge

Singh: If you go into this election facing a president with a high approval rating, with the economy … turning around, and people still for the most part think[ing] he is doing OK with the war and … $200 million in his bank account, how do you fight that?"

Dean: Well, first of all, we think we're the only campaign that can match that $200 million. We're going to get 2 million people to give us $100 and I think there are probably 2 million people that would part with a one-way ticket to Crawford, Texas. Collectively we can do that. Secondly, I think that political campaigns are not just about saying whatever it takes to win, which is what most Washington folks like to do. I think political campaigns are about building a consensus for a different agenda. If you don't talk about the agenda you never get it. I think we can get it by laying out a positive agenda, by pointing out many of the things that the president has said and were not true. Perfect example: cutting off unemployment benefits for people who have run out of their unemployment during the week of Christmas. That's kind of the hallmark of what I see as the Bush administration philosophy about ordinary Americans. And I think there are a lot of people out there who agree with me.

Singh: In your last few speeches, you've talked about party building. If you do end up in the White House and you don't swing enough votes for Democratic candidates, where do you go from there?

Dean: We are planning on swinging enough Democrats to win seats in the Congress the way we tried to help [Iowa Democratic] Congressman [Leonard] Boswell. We asked our donors to support him and they did — $68,000 in 48 hours. We can raise money for marginal Congressional seats and we hope to pick up 12 seats. But if that doesn't work, I think we just go to the American people. If I win then there will be an agenda of health insurance, jobs and a foreign policy that makes this country the most respected nation in the world again. And I think people will want that agenda. And if the right wing of the Republican party blocks that agenda they will have to answer that in the following Congressional elections. And I have every confidence that they will answer for that.

Singh: That's your plan B, then?

Dean: We've thought about this. I'm sure we're the first campaign that has been thinking about how to take over Congress. And we have thought about it. And, of course, you have to have a plan B. I'd rather have a plan A, because I think American people want to have something done and not be obstructed by a group of right-wingers.

Dean’s Resumé Hole

Singh: [Monday], you talked about a resumé hole and I am just curious as to why you would bring that up when you have been criticized for it.

Dean: Because one of the vulnerabilities that I'll have is that, I can make all the arguments in the world about foreign policy but the truth is I'd rather have somebody with my experience with foreign policy to make the right judgment than I would have someone from Washington who sat on a committee in the Senate for awhile who makes the wrong decision, which is exactly the choice that voters have. But I recognize that when you run for president it's not just about your views, it's about your resumé. So it's much easier for me to have a running mate with extensive experience in foreign policy because I won't have to be explaining my resumé and playing defense on that anymore.

Singh: Which Democrats out there do you admire the most?

Dean: That's a great backhanded way of asking me who might be on the short list. I haven't started done any serious thinking about that at all. I don't have a single vote in the primaries yet and to start talking about a short list before I have a single vote in the primaries would be presumptuous, premature and I'm not going to do it.

He’s Got Gore — What About Bradley?

Singh: Bill Bradley. Have you talked to him recently?

Dean: Uh, I have.

Singh: And your conversations …

Dean: I ask him for advice from time to time.

Singh: How recent was your last conversation?

Dean: It was in the last few weeks. I don't remember the exact time.

Dean and the DLC

Singh: Today, your comment about the DLC [Democratic Leadership Council] being the Republican wing of the Democratic Party … .what does that say about Bill Clinton's presidency? About Al Gore?"

Dean: Nothing. I think the DLC has moved to the right. I acknowledge that we want the DLC on our side. Ultimately every Democrat is going to have to pull together in order to beat George Bush. But think I am entitled to have a little fun at their expense after the pounding they have given me over the last eight months.

Singh: So in that comment you weren't lumping Al Gore or Bill Clinton in with them?

Dean: No, that's all spin from the other campaigns. Al Gore and Bill Clinton I talk to frequently. I've talked to Bill Clinton twice since Al Gore's endorsement. I talk to both him and Senator Clinton frequently. I was just having a little fun at the expense of the staff of the DLC which seems to be supporting other candidates quite vigorously.

Singh: You've said that you don't like using the term front-runner. But recently you've talked about getting buckshot in your [rear end].

Dean: Right.

Singh: So are you getting more comfortable being the leader?

Dean: Well, George Bush is the front-runner in this election. And I think we have a long way to go. There has not been one vote cast in any primary and the voters choose the front-runner, the voters choose the nominee. So I appreciate the attention the press has given me, but it doesn't amount to many votes. You don't have many votes as compared to the American people.

Singh: When can we see Al Gore campaigning with you?

Dean: I don't have the answer to that.

Singh: But you do expect to see him out there campaigning?

Dean: If the schedules work out, then yes.

The Saudi Question

Singh: Talk to me about the issue of whether America trades [its] values for [its] interests in the Middle East.

Dean: I don't think the American people are part of that. I think that's about a president who is very close to the oil industry and has been for a long time. I think that the president makes a terrible mistake in not standing up to the Saudis, who are in fact financing the teaching of hatred of Americans, Christians, Jews and moderate Muslims. And that's bad for America because that's the next generation of suicide bombers and terrorists. So I think the government, this particular American government, may be trading values for oil. In fact I think they are making a terrible mistake in the defense of America by not standing up to the Saudis …

Singh: Do you think it's dangerous to rock the boat when it comes to the Saudis in that who knows what we'll get [in return?]

Dean: Our national security is at risk. The teaching of hatred to small children is a thing that is very risky to the United States. It really is the next it's the recruiting ground for the next generation of suicide bombers and terrorists. We can't afford to do that. We've got to stand up against the teaching of hate no matter who is teaching it.