Second Debate Transcript: Page 12

Oct. 11, 2000 -- LEHRER: Governor, did Vice President — are the vice president’sfigures correct about Texas?

BUSH: Well, first of all, let me say, he’s not for a government-run health care system. I thought that’s exactly what he and Mrs.Clinton and them fought for in 1993, was a government-run health caresystem. It was fortunately stopped in its tracks.

Secondly, we spend $4.7 billion a year on the uninsured in thestate of Texas. Our rate of uninsured, the percentage of uninsured,in Texas has gone down while the percentage of uninsured in Americahas gone up.

Our CHIPs program got a late start because our government meetsonly four months out of every two years, Mr. Vice President. May comefor a shock for somebody’s been in Washington for so long, butactually limited government can work in the second largest state inthe Union, and therefore Congress passes the bill after our session in1970 — ’97 ended. We passed the enabling legislation in ’99. We’ve signed up over 110,000 children to the CHIPs program for comparable states our size. We’re signing them up fast as any other state.

And I — you can quote all the numbers you want, but I’m tellingyou, we care about our people in Texas, we spend a lot of money tomake sure people get health care in the state of Texas, and we’redoing a better job than they are at the national level for reducinguninsured.

LEHRER: Is he right?

GORE: Well, I don’t know about the — all these percentages thathe throws out. But I do know that the — I speculate that the reasonwhy he didn’t answer your question directly as to whether my numberswere right, the facts were right, about Texas ranking dead last infamilies with health insurance and 49th out of 50 for both childrenand women, is because those facts are correct.

And as for why it happened, I’m no expert on the Texasprocedures. But what my friends there tell me is that the governoropposed a measure put forward by Democrats in the legislature toexpand the number of children that would be covered, and insteaddirected the money toward a tax cut, a significant part of which wentto wealthy interests. He declared the need for a new tax cut for theoil companies in Texas an emergency need. And so the money was takenaway from the CHIP program.

There’s a — you don’t have to take my word for this. There is now a federal judge’s opinion about the current management of this program, ordering the state of Texas to do some — and you should read that judge’s language about this.

They’re — I believe there are 1.4 million children inTexas who do not have health insurance, 600,000 of whom — and maybesome of those have since gotten it, but as of a year ago, 600,000 ofthem were actually eligible for it but they couldn’t sign up for itbecause of the barriers that they had to surmount.

LEHRER: Let’s let the governor respond to that.

BUSH: Well, I …

LEHRER: Are those numbers correct? Are his charges correct?

BUSH: If he’s trying to allege that I’m a hard-hearted personand I don’t care about children, he’s absolutely wrong. We spend $4.7 billion a year in the state of Texas for uninsured people, and theyget health care. Now, it’s not the most efficient way to get peoplehealth care.

But I want to remind you, the number of uninsured in Americaduring their watch has increased. And so he can make any excuse thathe wants, but the facts are that we’re reducing the number ofuninsured as a percentage of our population and as a percentage of thepopulation is increasing nationally.

But somehow the allegation that we don’t care, and we’re going to get money for this interest or that interest, and not for children inthe state of Texas, is just totally absurd.

And I — let me just tell you who the jury is: the people ofTexas. There’s only been one governor ever elected to back-to-backfour year terms and that was me. And I was able to do so with a lotof Democrat votes, nearly 50 percent of the Hispanic vote, about 27percent of the African-American vote because people know that I’m aconservative person and a compassionate person.

So we can throw all those kinds of numbers around, I’m justtelling you, our state comes together to do what’s right.

We come together, both Republicans and Democrats.

LEHRER: Let me put that directly to — to you, Vice PresidentGore. The reason you brought this up is that — are you suggestingthat those numbers and that record will reflect the way Governor Bushwill operate in this area of health insurance as president?

GORE: Yes. Yes. But it’s not a statement about his heart. Idon’t claim to know his heart. I think — I think he’s a good person. I make no allegations about that. I believe him when he says that — that he has a good heart. I know enough about your story to — toadmire a lot of the things that you have done as a person.

But I think it’s about his priorities. And let me tell youexactly why I think that the choice he made to give a tax cut for theoil companies and others before addressing this — I mean, if you werethe governor of a state that was dead last in health care forfamilies, and all of a sudden you found yourself with the biggestsurplus your state had ever had in its history, wouldn’t you want tomaybe use some of it climb from 50th to say 45 or 40 or something, ormaybe better? I would.

Now, but here’s why it’s directly relevant, Jim, because by hisown budget numbers, his proposals for spending on tax cuts for thewealthiest of the wealthy are more than the new spending proposalsthat he has made for health care and education and national defenseall combined, according to his own numbers. So it’s not a question ofhis heart, it’s — as far as I know, it’s a — it’s a question ofpriorities and values.

See, you know …

LEHRER: Let me just ask — let me ask …

BUSH: First of all, that’s simply not true, what he just said,of course. And secondly, I repeat …

LEHRER: What’s not true, Governor?

BUSH: That we spent — the top 1 percent receive $223 as opposedto $445 billion in new spending. The top — let’s talk about my taxplan. The top 1 percent pay — will pay one-third of all the federalincome taxes, and in return get one-fifth of the benefits because — benefits, because most of the tax reductions go to the people at thebottom end of the economic ladder.

That stands in stark contrast, by the way, to a man who’s goingto leave 50 million — 50 million — Americans out of tax relief.

We just have a different point of view. It’s a totally differentpoint of view. He believes only the right people ought to get taxrelief. I believe everybody who pays taxes ought to get tax relief.

Let me go back to Texas, for example — for a minute. We pay$4.7 billion — I can’t emphasize — tell you how much. I signed abill that puts CHIPs in place. The bill finally came out at the endof the ’99 session. We’re working hard to sign up children. We’redoing it faster than any other — than any other state our size,comparable state. We’re making really good progress.

And our state cares a lot about our children. My priority isgoing to be the health of our citizens. These folks have had eightyears to get something done in Washington, D.C., on the uninsured;they have not done it. They’ve had eight years to get something doneon Medicare, and they have not got it done.

And my case to the American people is, if you’re happy withinactivity, stay with the horse, the horse that’s up there now. Butif you want change, you need to get somebody who knows how to bringRepublicans and Democrats together to get positive things done forAmerica.

LEHRER: New question, new subject.

Vice President Gore, on the environment, in your 1992 book yousaid, quote, “We must make the rescue of our environment the centralorganizing principle for civilization and there must be a wrenchingtransformation to save the planet.” Do you still feel that way?

GORE: I do. I think that in this 21st century, we will soon seethe consequences of what’s called global warming. There was a studyjust a few weeks ago suggesting that in summertime the north polar icecap will be completely gone in 50 years. Already many people see thestrange weather conditions that the old-timers say they’ve never seenbefore in their lifetimes. And what’s happening is the level ofpollution is increasing, significantly.

Now, here is the good news, Jim. If we take the leadership roleand build the new technologies, like the new kinds of cars and trucksthat Detroit is itching to build, then we can create millions of goodnew jobs by being first into the market with these new kinds of carsand trucks and other kinds of technologies.

You know, the Japanese are breathing down our necks on this.They’re moving very rapidly because they know that it is a fast-growing world market.

And some of these other countries, particularly in the developingworld, their pollution is much worse than anywhere else and theirpeople want higher standards of living, and so they’re looking forways to satisfy their desire for a better life and still reducepollution at the same time.

I think that holding on to the old ways and the old argument thatthe environment and the economy are in conflict, is really outdated.We have to be bold. We have to provide leadership.

Now, it’s true that we disagree on this.

The governor said that he doesn’t think this problem isnecessarily caused by people. He’s for letting the oil companies intothe Arctic National Wildlife Refuge. Houston’s just become thesmoggiest city in the country, and Texas is number one in industrialpollution.

We have a very different outlook. And I’ll tell you this, I willfight for a clean environment in ways that strengthen our economy.

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