Second Debate Transcript: Page 9
Oct. 11, 2000 -- LEHRER: Vice President Gore, what would be on your racialdiscrimination elimination list as president?
GORE: Well, I think we need tough enforcement of the civilrights laws. I think we still need affirmative action. I would passa hate crimes law, as I said.
And I guess I had misunderstood the governor’s previousposition. The Byrd family may have a misunderstanding of it in Texasalso.
But I’d like to shift, if I could, to the big issue of education.
LEHRER: Well, no, hold on one second. What is themisunderstanding? Let’s clear this up.
GORE: Well, I had thought that there was a controversy at theend of the legislative session where the hate crimes law in Texas was— failed and that the Byrd family, among others, asked you to supportit, Governor, and it died in committee for lack of support. Am Iwrong about that?
BUSH: Well, you don’t realize we have a hate crime statute …
GORE: I’m talking about the one that was proposed to deal …
BUSH: Well, what the vice president must not understand is wegot a hate crimes bill in Texas. And secondly, the people thatmurdered Mr. Byrd got the ultimate punishment …
LEHRER: But they were …
BUSH: … the death penalty.
LEHRER: They were prosecuted under the murder laws, were theynot …
BUSH: Well …
LEHRER: … in Texas?
BUSH: In this case, when you murder somebody, it’s hate, Jim.
LEHRER: No, but …
BUSH: Crime is hate. And they got — and they got the ultimatepunishment. I’m not exactly sure how you enhance the penalty any morethan the death penalty. Well, we happen to have a statute on thebooks that’s a hate crimes statute in Texas.
GORE: May I respond?
LEHRER: Sure.
GORE: I don’t want to jump in.
(LAUGHTER)
I may have been misled by all the news reports about this matter,because the law that was proposed in Texas, that had the support ofthe Byrd family and a whole lot of people in Texas, did in fact die incommittee. There may be some other statute that was already on thebooks, but certainly the advocates of the hate crimes law felt that atough new law was needed.
And it’s important, Jim, not only — not just because ofTexas, but because this mirrors the national controversy. There ispending now in the Congress a national hate crimes law because ofJames Byrd, because of Matthew Shepard, who was crucified on a split-rail fence by bigots, because of others. And that law has died incommittee also because of the same kind of opposition.
LEHRER: And you would support that bill?
GORE: Absolutely.
LEHRER: Would you support a national hate crimes law?
BUSH: I would support the Orrin Hatch version of it, not theSenator Kennedy version.
But let me say to you, Mr. Vice President, we’re happy with ourlaws on our books. That bill — there was another bill that did diein committee.
But I want to repeat, if you have a state that fully supports thelaw like we do in Texas, we’re going to go after all crime, and we’re going to make sure people get punished for the crime. And in thiscase, we can’t enhance the penalty anymore than putting those threethugs to death. And that’s what’s going to happen in the state ofTexas.
LEHRER: New subject, new question, another vice presidentialdebate follow-up.
Governor, both Senator Lieberman and Secretary Cheney said theywere sympathetically rethinking their views on same-sex relationships.What’s your position on that?
BUSH: I’m not for gay marriage. I think marriage is a sacredinstitution between a man and a woman. And I appreciate the way theadministration signed the Defense of Marriage Act. I presume the vicepresident supported it when the president signed that bill andsupports it now. But I think — I think marriage is a sacredinstitution.
I’m going to be respectful for people who may disagree with me.I’ve had a record of doing so in the state of Texas. I’ve been aperson that would — been called a uniter not divider because Iaccepted some — I accept other people’s points of view. But I feelstrongly that marriage should be between a man and a woman.
LEHRER: Vice President Gore?
GORE: I agree with that. And I did support that law. But Ithink that we should find a way to allow some kind of civic unions.And I basically agree with Dick Cheney and Joe Lieberman. And I thinkthe three of us have one view and the governor has another one.
LEHRER: Is that right?
BUSH: I’m not sure what kind of view he’s ascribing to me. Ican just tell you, I’m a — I’m a person who respects other people. I respect their — I respect — on the one hand, he says he agrees with me and then he says he doesn’t. I’m not sure where he’s coming from.
But I — I — I will be a tolerant person. I’ve been a tolerantperson all my life. I just happen to believe strongly that marriageis between a man and a woman.
LEHRER: Do you believe in general terms that gays and lesbiansshould have the same rights as other Americans?
BUSH: Yes. I don’t think they ought to have special rights, butI think they ought to have the same rights.
GORE: Well, there’s a — there’s a law pending called theEmployment Non-Discrimination Act. I strongly support it. What itsays is that gays and lesbians can’t be fired from their job becausethey’re gay or lesbian, and it would be a federal law preventing that.
Now, I wonder if the — it’s been blocked by the opponents in themajority in the Congress. I wonder if the Governor would lend hissupport to that law?
LEHRER: Governor?
BUSH: The questioner coming around again?
LEHRER: Yes. It’s a logical rebuttal.
BUSH: Well, I have no idea. I mean, you can throw out all kinds— I don’t know the particulars of this law.
I will tell you I’m the kind of person — I don’t hire or firesomebody based upon their sexual orientation. As a matter of fact,I’d like to take the issue a little further. I don’t really thinkit’s any of my, you know, any of my concerns how you conduct your sexlife. And I think that’s a private matter. And I think that’s theway it ought to be.
But I’m going to be respectful for people. I’ll toleratepeople. And I support equal rights, but not special rights forpeople.
LEHRER: And special rights, how does that affect gays andlesbians?
BUSH: Well, if they’re given — if they’re given specialprotective status. And that doesn’t mean we shouldn’t fully enforce laws and fully protect people and fully honor people, which I will doas the president of the United States.
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