'This Week' Transcript 12-29-24: Sen. Ben Cardin & Rep. Mike Lawler

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, December 29 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

JONATHAN KARL, ABC "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: Breaking overnight, 179 people are dead after a Boeing 737-800 crash landed on a South Korea runway and erupted into flames. We'll have the latest.

New Year's resolutions.

REP. DAN CRENSHAW (R-TX): It would benefit Trump a lot, honestly, if he would just back Johnson right now.

KARL: Republicans brace for a speaker fight to kick off 2025.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We do need to consider whether, if we're going to advance Mr. Trump's agenda, whether the current leadership is what we need.

KARL: Could this be the end for Speaker of the House Mike Johnson?

All this as a fight breaks out between Elon Musk and the MAGA right over foreign workers.

STEVE BANNON, FORMER TRUMP STRATEGIST: The H-1B visa program is a total and complete scam from its top to the bottom.

KARL: This morning, we're live with Republican Congressman Mike Lawler on what is being called a MAGA civil war.

And –

DONALD TRUMP (R), FORMER U.S. PRESIDENT AND 2024 PRESIDENT-ELECT: Has anyone ever heard of the Panama Canal? Because we're being ripped off at the Panama Canal.

KARL: Trump threatens a U.S. land grab in Central America. Senate Foreign Relations Chair Ben Cardin on what it means for our allies and our enemies.

Plus, the roundtable on what to watch for in the new year.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s THIS WEEK. Here now, Jonathan Karl.

KARL: Good morning. Welcome to THIS WEEK.

We have breaking news as we come on the air this morning. A plane crash in South Korea has taken the lives of 179 people, that's all but two of the people on board, as it made a runway crash landing.

For the very latest on this tragedy, we turn to ABC News transportation correspondent Gio Benitez.

Gio, what do we know about the cause of this crash?

GIO BENITEZ, ABC NEWS TRANSPORTATION CORRESPONDENT: Well, Jon, this is just an unspeakable tragedy. And there's a lot that we don't know right now. That’s the problem.

But we know that there were 181 passengers and crew on this plane. And like you said, nearly all of them lost their lives in this. You're seeing the images right there. This is really the only part of this plane that's still recognizable. It's really the tail.

And this happened in South Korea, because they actually had to – to land there. There was some sort of distress signal that was sent before the landing. And we know that local transportation officials were saying that there was a warning about a bird strike.

But at this point, when you look at this, it's hard to imagine how a bird strike alone could have caused something like this, but we just don't know. And we're not going to show you the full video here because it's really, really disturbing, but basically this plane, this Boeing 737 from Jeju Air was actually able to land on its belly without that landing gear deployed. And so the big question is, why did it not have that landing gear deployed? Why did it not slow down when it was landing on its belly. And then, why there was this wall. There was this wall at the airport near the runway when it veered off course. The plane actually hit that wall. That's when it exploded.

So, there are so many questions about all of this. And the sad part about this, there's so many sad parts about this, but what's really tragic about this is, if that wall hadn't been there, they likely would have been able to survive this.

KARL: And this was a Boeing 737-800. That is one of the most common airplanes in the world. I believe there are more than 4,000 of them currently in operation. That's about 15 percent of all commercial passenger planes in the world.

What does this mean for the rest of those Boeing 737-800s around the world?

BENITEZ: Well, you know, Jon, I know that a lot of people online, when they look at this they’re saying, well, wait a minute. It's a Boeing plane. We saw what happened in January with that door plug on the Alaska Airlines plane. Is this somehow related to being a Boeing problem?

At this point, there's no indication of that. This is a 15-year-old plane. And like you said, it is one of the most popular models in the world. So many people fly this plane.

And when you look at Jeju Air, right, this is the airline, they actually have an incredibly strong safety record. They only have one incident almost two decades ago, and it was a plane that actually went off the runway and six people were injured in that, but everyone survived there.

In this case, it's very, very different because when it landed, we still don't know why it wasn't able to slow down. Sometimes they have these crush pads at the end of airport runways to slow planes down. We don't know if that was there, but certainly, you see how fast it was moving.

And then, of course, that wall. And so that’s the – the biggest factor here is that wall there.

But, no doubt, we want to know about that distress signal. Why did that happen? Why was there a mayday call? And so that investigation is going to take some time.

KARL: Gio Benitez, thank you very much.

BENITEZ: Thank you.

KARL: Turning back to politics.

While many of us were celebrating Christmas and Hanukkah, Elon Musk ignited what the "Washington Post" is calling a, quote, “MAGA civil war.” It started with a Christmas Day post by Musk on his X platform saying that the United States needs to quickly let in more foreign workers, specifically highly educated engineers, to work for American tech companies.

“The number of people who are super talented engineers and super motivated in the U.S. far too low,” Musk declared. “Think of this like a pro sports team. If you want your team to win the championship, you need to recruit top talent wherever they may be.”

On one hand, there was nothing unusual about what Musk was saying. American companies have been complaining for years about how hard it is to get visas for the most highly skilled workers. And in a podcast last summer, Trump himself told tech entrepreneur David Sachs that the U.S. needs to recruit top talent from around the world. And he reiterated his support for H-1B foreign worker visas just yesterday in an interview with “The New York Post."

Shortly after Christmas, Vivek Ramaswamy chimed in to agree with Musk, saying that American culture is to blame for the shortage of American workers. “Our American culture has venerated mediocrity over excellence for way too long,” Ramaswamy posted on X. “A culture that celebrates the prom queen over the math Olympiad champ or the jock over the valedictorian will not produce the best engineers.”

But the call for letting in more foreign workers ran smack against the beliefs of some of Trump's most hardcore supporters. They take America first to mean restricting immigration of all kinds. Laura Loomer, who traveled with Trump for a while during the fall campaign, blasted the call for more foreign workers and the influence of Musk and other tech billionaires on Trump, saying, quote, “allowing big tech executives into Mar-a-Lago is going to be the death of our country.”

And there's more. Musk hit back on his pro-Trump critics with a series of profanity-laced posts saying, quote, “I will go to war on this issue the likes of which you cannot possibly comprehend.”

That outburst prompted Steve Bannon to hit back at Musk, saying, “Someone please notify child protective services – need to do a wellness check on this toddler.”

Yep, that's Trump's former chief strategist calling Elon Musk a, quote, “toddler.”

If it is a MAGA civil war, the opening salvos may have been fired a few days earlier at the big Turning Point USA event in Arizona that featured speeches by Trump and his biggest MAGA supporters. Check out what his son, Don Jr., had to say in Arizona.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP JR., DONALD TRUMP’S SON: In D.C., it's not just the Democrats that are our foes. It's a vast majority of the Republicans.

Call them out. Call their offices. Put on that pressure. Make them feel the pain.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: And Bannon was a featured speaker out there too. He took a shot right at Republican Speaker of the House Mike Johnson.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

STEVE BANNON, TRUMP’S FORMER CHIEF STRATEGIST: Clearly Johnson’s not up to the task and he's got to go, right? He's got to go. Should Johnson be speaker of the House?

CROWD: No!

BANNON: President Trump, these are your people.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: By the way, Mike Johnson will stand for re-election as speaker of the House in just five days, in an election where he cannot afford to lose more than a single House Republican.

In just a few minutes, we're going to talk with a House Republican and a Trump supporter about how these fights will play out before Trump is sworn in again as president of the United States.

But we begin with the roundtable. Former DNC Chair Donna Brazile, ABC News Washington bureau chief and political director, Rick Klein, former Trump Justice Department spokesperson and editor of “The Dispatch," Sarah Isgur, and ABC News contributing political correspondent and “Politico” Capitol bureau chief, Rachael Bade.

So, Rick, we have what seems to be an all-out war between Elon Musk and what we sometimes call the tech bros and the MAGA right. Who's going to win this?

RICK KLEIN, ABC NEWS WASHINGTON BUREAU CHIEF & POLITICAL DIRECTOR: Whoever Donald Trump wants to win. This round – you say round one or the first little salvo here looks like it's – it’s being won by Elon Musk and – and – and the tech wing of the partybecause he's coming down on the -- on the side of additional visas.

But this fight is not over. In fact, I don't think it's even really begun because once you get into any kind of policy question, it's going to be yes, MAGA versus Musk. In some cases, it's -- it's different parts and different factions of the MAGA movement, all of these people that Trump brought together. It is kind of a -- kind of a forced marriage in some cases.

I don't think tech is permanently in the MAGA wing, and I think tech is going to have a growing influence not just over MAGA but over American politics for the next several decades.

So how little things like this play out, they will define the success the failures of the Trump presidency and he will get to design some of the contours. Some of it's out of his control. Some of these are much bigger forces that are going on right now and they help power his victory, but whether they power governing success is another question.

KARL: I mean, Sarah, this -- really Elon Musk is the outlier here within the MAGA world and Trump didn't come out for more H-1B visas. He said that he supports the program, whether it's more or not.

But Steve -- Stephen Miller, who's going to be the deputy chief of staff for policy, hasn't directly weighed in right now. But we know exactly where he stands which is basically the exact opposite of where Elon Musk stands.

SARAH ISGUR, THE DISPATCH SENIOR EDITOR & FORMER TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: And we've seen Stephen Miller play the long game on things like this before. He's fine with Trump going out and giving sort of vague statements about being in favor of H-1B visas. The devil's in the details though of whether those visas actually get handed out what the criteria will be, and we're seeing this play out behind the scenes, too, when it comes to personnel in the incoming administration.

There is clearly a divide between Stephen Miller who is placing a lot of these cabinet and sub-cabinet level deputy secretary types -- assistant attorney general types throughout the administration. Musk has really been confined mostly to DOGE and personnel related issues. So if you want to, you know, look at where this heads, Stephen Miller is going into this with a lot more troops behind him.

(CROSSTALK)

RACHAEL BADE, POLITICO CAPITOL BUREAU CHIEF & SENIOR WASHINGTON COLUMNIST, & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTING POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT: I have heard -- I have heard people say -- I’ve had one person say to me that if you want to know where Trump is going to go on policy, look at Stephen Miller because 90 percent of the time, what he wants, he actually gets. And I think right now when you talk about Elon Musk, he could be potentially reaching a peak of his influence. If you think about it, he's been down at Mar-a-Lago all the time, constantly.

I mean, I was hearing even before the election from Trump insiders who were seriously annoyed with him that he would not leave. Donald Trump, you know, the person he talks to last is often the person, you know, he's going to sort of go with in terms of his gut and where he lands on things but he's going to be at the White House in a couple of weeks and who's going to be in that room writing the policies, Stephen Miller who wants to crack down on these visas and Elon Musk won't be around.

So it'll be interesting to see if this --

(CROSSTALK)

KARL: I mean, well, in fact -- I mean, Donna, I want to -- but what I’ve told and we'll see how this plays out, I’m told that Elon Musk is not going to have a pass. He's not a pass -- White House pass. He'll be able to go when he has an appointment but it's not like Mar-a-Lago where he can hang out 24/7 and sleep there.

DONNA BRAZILE, FORMER DNC CHAIR & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Yeah, but he's going to control the conversation. He's going to control the vibe. I mean, not only on his X platform, but we saw this week and the past previous week that he is dipping his finger into a lot of so-called soup.

And it's not just immigration, but look what just happened with the House, with the House vote on the government shutdown. He was like shut it down. So, Elon Musk is going to have a lot of influence in this administration.

This is Donald Trump who back in 2016 after he won back in -- he wanted to look at the H-1B program. He wanted to reform it. He wanted to see if it impacted Americans -- American workers and American jobs.

And all of a sudden, he's now embracing it I think because Elon Musk is putting a lot of pressure.

KARL: Rachel, what's going to happen with the speaker race? Because it -- I mean, Mike Johnson's hard -- at least from my vantage point -- to see how he gets reelected speaker of the House. But ---

BADE: Yeah. I mean, let me get out my crystal ball which -- I mean, look, we wrote this in “Playbook” yesterday. Donald Trump is letting Mike Johnson twist in the wind right now. He has talked about everything from purchasing Greenland to, you know, making Canada the 51st state of the United States, not anything about Mike Johnson.

And I mean, this is sort of what I was told a few days ago from Trump insiders was that he was going to sit back, let this sort of play out and in the meantime, you have people like Steve Bannon and that clip that you just played filling the void saying he's got to go, people like House Freedom Caucus Chairman Andy Harris who's going to be leading that group of conservatives now. He was previously a supporter of Mike Johnson, now he says he's not sure anymore.

So this is not a good sign for Mike Johnson. He has like no margin of error here maybe he can lose just one or two uh depending on how many people are in attendance. He's going to need Donald Trump to lean in and right now, Trump is not doing that.

So I will say one more thing, I wouldn't be shocked if we see Mike Johnson down at Mar-a-Lago before Friday. He's going to need him and he knows and he's got to be in person to make that case to Trump.

ISGUR: And all of this helps Donald Trump. I mean, he's going in with a Republican House and a Republican Senate. He’s got a limited amount of time to get a legislative agenda together. He needs the speaker, not just on his side, but in his pocket in a lot of ways. And so, he wants Johnson to owe him, or whoever the speaker ends up being, fully on board with Trump's agenda. And that's what it looks like he's going to get with such a narrow margin.

KARL: What he doesn't want is 15 rounds of not knowing who the speaker is. They need to get a speaker before they can count and certify the election.

KLEIN: That's right. Before January 6th, if nothing else, to even get the work done.

BRAZILE: That’s right.

KLEIN: You can't do anything in the House legislatively, anything at all, any business until you have a speaker of the House. So, certainly he wants it wrapped up at some point.

And – and I think also a clean finish to it is helpful to him because, to Sarah’s point, it's one thing to have the speaker under your thumb, but – but you also need to have a functional majority. You have to actually pass things because that same margin where you can only lose one Republican, two Republicans, that is going to be the reality for months and months and months, maybe the entirety of these next two years. Almost no margin for error. So, getting someone squeaked past the finish line, we're going to hear talk about it, you going to cut a deal with Democrats, anything like that.

KARL: I know – I know –

BRAZILE: No. But the story of the 118th Congress is the Democrats bailing out House Speaker Mike Johnson. So, I don't – I don't see how he gets the required number of votes without Trump's support.KARL: All right, hold that thought. I want to go right now – we have Republican Congressman Mike Lawler of New York joining us right now.

Congressman Lawler, we teed you up. So, what's going to happen? First of all, let's start right there with Mike Johnson. Does he get re-elected speaker of the House? Should he be?

REP. MIKE LAWLER, (R) NEW YORK: Yes, and yes. The fact is that Mike Johnson inherited a disaster when Matt Gaetz and several of my colleagues teamed up with 208 Democrats to remove Kevin McCarthy, which will go down as the single stupidest thing I've ever seen in politics.

With that said, removing Mike Johnson would equally be as stupid. The fact is that these folks are playing with fire. And if they think they're somehow going to get a more conservative speaker, they're kidding themselves.

Mike Johnson is arguably the most conservative speaker that's ever been elected to the office. He's done a great job keeping the conference unified, getting major things off the plate, and ultimately keeping the majority, which frankly despite the best efforts of some of these same people that are now calling for Johnson’s removal, we held onto the House because of seats like mine. And I’ll be very clear, as I was during the Kevin McCarthy fight, I'm not going to bend to their will. So, if they think somehow that they are going to end up in a stronger position by removing Mike Johnson, they're not.

I think the bottom line here is this, Donald Trump has been given a mandate to govern. He's been given majorities in the Senate and the House. And we have a lot of work to do on behalf of the American people with respect to the economy, with respect to the border, with respect to energy policy, and the foreign affairs disaster that has been left on Donald Trump's doorstep by Joe Biden and Kamala Harris.

We can't get anything done unless we have a speaker, including certifying President Trump's election on January 6th. So, to waste time over a nonsensical intramural food fight is a joke. And I think my colleagues, if they didn't learn anything from the 118th Congress, it should be that we absolutely do not need a fight over the speakership.

KARL: I mean, by my math, he can't afford to lose more than a single vote. And we already have one of your colleagues, Massey, saying he's not going to vote for him. Do you really think he's going to line up every single House Republican?

LAWLER: Well, first of all, you're going to have 219 members on January 3rd.

KARL: Yes.

LAWLER: Assuming Matt Gaetz doesn't show up. And I guess that's a big assumption. But you have 219. You need 218.

KARL: That's some tough math.

LAWLER: Obviously, if you lose Thomas Massey, you still have 218.

KARL: Yes. Yes. Right.

LAWLER: So, look, at the end of the day, people better be very careful though because you're playing with fire. And if somebody thinks that they're going to be able to get 218 votes for somebody let's say out of the freedom caucus, they're kidding themselves.

KARL: All right, so let’s – let's turn to the Elon Musk versus much of the rest of – of the MAGA right.

Where do you stand on this issue of visas for highly skilled foreign workers?

LAWLER: Well, look, let's look at this as a macro issue. Number one, we all agree we need to secure the border. We’ve had a disaster under Joe Biden, 10.5 million migrants flood into the country. Billions of dollars wasted of taxpayer money in New York, for instance, on free housing, clothing, food, education and healthcare for illegal immigrants. So the current system is broken. We need to secure the border. We all agree with that. That has to be priority number one.

But here's a reality that we have to deal with. By the end of the century, we're projected to have a population decline. Our birthrate in the last 15 years has dropped from two children per woman to 1.66 per woman. So the reality is we have a long-term population decline. We have a workforce shortage of doctors, nurses, engineers, home health aides, ad workers, construction workers, hospitality workers.

We need immigration. We need an immigration system that works, that is legal, and I fundamentally believe that you need to have a system that is focused on our economic needs as a country and a more merit-based immigration system than anything else. My wife is an immigrant. I have been through this process with her. It is a fundamentally broken system.

But the H-1B visa program in which you're talking about 65,000 visas, plus, you know, an additional 20,000 for, you know, those with master's degrees, the fact is, you know, that is critical to our economy, and as President Trump said, it's a program he's used over the years for his businesses, and it's something that has obviously been beneficial to our economy.

The United States has been built on immigration, and it is vital to the --

KARL: But let me ask you -- but let me just ask you, though.

LAWLER: The continued growth within our economy.

KARL: But what's behind -- I mean, there's an all-out war on pushing back on Musk and the other tech entrepreneurs close to Trump on this issue. I mean, you've heard what we said at the top. I mean, Steve Bannon is calling Trump a toddler and saying this program's a scam, and it's about bringing indentured servants in to work for tech companies and the tech oligarchs are taking over the party.

I mean, this is an all-out, I mean, you're expressing a view as I just heard it, very similar to what Elon Musk has said. Why does it provoke this kind of blowback from so many other of Trump's strongest supporters?

LAWLER: Look, I don't speak in conspiracy theories so you'll have to ask, you know, Steve Bannon and others, but, look, the fact is this.

KARL: OK.

LAWLER: There's no question we want an America in which Americans are employed, in which they are able to fill the needs of our workforce, which means we need to revamp our education system, our K-12 system. We need vocational schools. We need to get kids on an earlier STEM trajectory so that they are becoming the engineers of tomorrow. But the fact is, India is producing a significant number more of engineers than we are. So it's both a function of fixing our education system and having a legal immigration system that works.

KARL: OK.

LAWLER: I agree with my colleagues who have been very forceful on the issue of the border. We need to stop the massive influx of illegal immigrants.

KARL: Right. That's a separate issue.

LAWLER: But you cannot have no --

KARL: OK.

LAWLER: You cannot have no immigration at all. It will cripple the economy long term.

KARL: All right. Mike Lawler of New York, thank you very much for joining us. Have a Happy New Year.

Up next, Donald Trump is talking about taking over the Panama Canal, buying Greenland, and even suggesting Canada should be the 51st state? Could any of this actually happen? The top Democrat on the Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate joins me when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: Has anyone ever heard of the Panama Canal, huh? Because we're being ripped off at the Panama Canal like we're being ripped off everywhere else.

If the principles both moral and legal of this magnanimous gesture of giving are not followed, then we will demand that the Panama Canal be returned to the United States of America in full, quickly and without question.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

KARL: President-elect Trump there threatening to take back control of the Panama Canal, one of several provocative statements on territorial ambitions he's made in recent weeks, including multiple jabs at Canada's prime minister, suggesting Canada could become the 51st state. And more talk about taking over Greenland as well.

For more on that, I’m joined by the outgoing chair of the Foreign Relations Committee in the Senate, Ben Cardin of Maryland, who is retiring from the Senate after three terms.

So, Senator Cardin, first of all, do you -- do you take this talk seriously? I mean, you heard him say that if -- that he suggested he will take back control of the Panama Canal. Is that something that can be done?

SEN. BEN CARDIN (D-MD): Well, Jonathan, it's a serious statement because it affects America's credibility globally. Our allies don't know whether we are reliable partners or not. The Panama Canal obligations were established by a treaty ratified by Congress, by this U.S. Senate.

So I don't know what the president-elect is saying in regards to how sincere he is, but I can tell you, it does raise questions globally as to whether we're a reliable partner. And it really feeds in to Russia and China appeal to other countries as to whether they need to make alliances with -- with Russia and China whether America will be there for them globally.

We saw the same type of statements made during his previous administration when he threatened to pull out of NATO. These are treaty obligations which our allies rely upon, and it raises serious concerns about whether America will be there for them.

KARL: And all this talk about Canada, you know, he's -- I mean, obviously, there's the -- there's the threat of imposing stiff new tariffs but the -- but the trolling, you know, suggesting Canada could be the 51st state, I mean, he's clearly not serious about this, right?

CARDIN: Well, there's no way that Canada will be the 51st state. So I -- it is a statement that he's making that for effect, it's not going to happen, that's correct.

KARL: Okay, let me turn to something that is happening, and that is the effort to come to some kind of a resolution in Ukraine. President Trump, of course, has famously said that he, you know, can bring a peace deal to Ukraine. I know right now, President Biden is working to get together the last -- you know, one more tranche of military aid to Ukraine.

Where do you see this going?

CARDIN: Well, you know, clearly, the candidate Trump said he would resolve this before he took the oath of office. Well, that's not going to happen. The Ukraine situation is still extremely serious.

We need to be with Ukraine. It's the front line of defense of -- for democracy. We know that Russia will not stop with Ukraine. We know there are many other countries that feel at risk if Ukraine is not able to defend its sovereignty. That requires international support from democratic states led by the United States.

So we need to continue to be there and then we need to look for a way in which we can resolve the conflict, but we can't do that by pulling away our support from Ukraine.

So I know some of the president-elect's comments are very disturbing. I’ve talked to the Ukrainians. I’ve talked to the Europeans several times. I think they question whether America's resolve will be there. I can tell you, we have bipartisan support in the United States Congress to stand with Ukraine because we recognize the importance to our national security.

KARL: OK. And finally, I want to ask you, you have -- you decided not to run for re-election, unlike many of your colleagues who've decided to go in the other direction, but you're one of dozens who have decided not to run. I want to point to one other Democrat, Democrat Annie Kuster, who is among those who has chosen to retire. She said that she was doing this to make room for younger lawmakers. She told "The Boston Globe", I'm trying to set a better example. I think there are colleagues and some of them who are still very successful and very productive, but others who just stay forever.

Should more Democrats, I guess we could ask this of Republicans too, but let's stick to your party, should more Democrats follow the example that you've set and moving on after a career in Congress and paving way for a new generation?

CARDIN: I think each person has to make their own decision. I've been blessed by the people of Maryland. They've elected me 18 times to the state legislature, the House of Representatives, and now in the United States Senate. It was time for me to give another person an opportunity, and it was time for me to say that I've been elected official long enough. I've accomplished what I set out to do, and I'm very grateful. I think each person needs to make their own judgment about that.

We should not have an age limit from -- where someone has to make that decision. But I do think it was the right decision that I made, and I'm very happy that Angela Alsobrooks, which will be the new Senator for Maryland on January 3, to me, it's the right transition.

KARL: All right. Well, 18 wins, that's a pretty damn good streak. Thank you very much, Senator Ben Cardin, for joining us here on "This Week."

Let's bring back in the roundtable. All right, Donna, let me get back to that Greenland, Panama, Canada stuff. How do you view all this?

BRAZILE: Well, I mean, look, I look at it as one -- another one of those 3:00 a.m. tweets by the former president, soon to be president of the United States. I mean, Denmark is a member of NATO. And I thought as a member of NATO, that you agree not to attack another --

KARL: Denmark, which owns Greenland, which is -- Greenland is a territory (inaudible).

BRAZILE: Yeah. So, are we saying -- is a former president, soon to be president saying that we should attack Denmark, a NATO country? Should we attack?

ISGUR: Donna, to be fair, he's talking about buying Greenland.

KARL: He's talking about buying it.

(LAUGH)

ISGUR: Something that actually lots of conservatives, Jonah Goldberg has been talking about buying Greenland for years.

BRAZILE: But this is not a real estate sale.

ISGUR: And don't forget, in 1775, we tried to have Canada join us. They declined.

(LAUGH)

ISGUR: We tried again in 1812.

KARL: We did buy the whole (inaudible).

(CROSSTALK)

BADE: It's a different century.

BRAZILE: Different century, different century. And we're not -- we're not going back to the 19th century, I hope, in attacking Panama, a sovereign nation or attacking any other nation.

ISGUR: He hasn't talked about attacking anyone.

(CROSSTALK)

BRAZILE: Nobody's going to give up their land.

KLEIN: People close to Trump say there's actually a method to the madness. This isn't a just 3:00 a.m. tweets, that they say that, look, this is him doing what he does, which is throwing out some bluster, maybe a lot of bluffing, but trying to make statements on the world stage that scramble things, that scare some allies and some enemies into positions that are more favorable to the United States.

I don't think we're going to rip up the U.S. flag and add a star anytime soon. I don't think he thinks that either. But I do think he's trying to scramble a lot of the old expectations and he understands the powers of -- powers of the presidency differently, in maybe in more complex ways than he did last time.

KARL: All right, I want to move to something else, TikTok.

KLEIN: Ooh.

KARL: Because TikTok is scheduled to be banned in the United States by a law that passed the U.S. Congress, signed into law by the president of the United States on January 19th, big day, my birthday as well.

So, Sarah, I want to quote from the filing that we just saw from President Trump's legal team, asking the Supreme Court to delay this ban in TikTok. And here's what the filing says, I think we have this on the screen. President Trump alone possesses the consummate deal-making expertise, the electoral mandate, and the political will to negotiate a resolution to save the platform while addressing the national security concerns expressed by the government. How's that going to play with the justices?

ISGUR: I think TikTok is probably not that happy with the friends that they have in this amicus brief, which is friend of the court. The Supreme Court is set to hear expedited oral argument on January 10th. That's so that they can decide this case ahead of the January 19th deadline.

Interestingly, I think that Donald Trump's brief is this great example of the logical conclusion of the imperial presidency, the idea that Congress doesn't matter throughout the brief. It's like, oh, Congress said this, but the president is in charge. The president needs to be able to do this.

KARL: President Trump alone.

ISGUR: Right. So I think it's, of course, a great press release maybe for President Trump. The Supreme Court probably puts them on their heels to be against whatever he just filed. And interestingly because it was signed by the incoming solicitor general of the United States, John Sauer.

I’ll tell you that top of the brief doesn't look like John Sauer wrote it. Looks more like Stephen Miller wrote it.

BADE: Interesting.

KARL: But what – but, I mean, Rachael, this – I mean the TikTok ban was, you know, hotly debated in Congress. And the – and the – just to – just to remind everybody that, you know, it's banned unless the company, the Chinese company, ByteDance, sells it to a non-Chinese owner.

BADE: Yes, I mean, look, Trump spent the whole campaign talking about being tough on China. And this is sort of the perfect sort of example of where he could potentially do that if he wanted to ban TikTok, except he used TikTok quite a bit to his benefit during the campaign and so clearly he has a soft spot there.

But look, this is not the only place where he is sort of seeming to get a little squeamish on China. I mean if you think back to just two weeks ago when it came to the government – original government funding deal that Speaker Mike Johnson struck with Democrats, there was a provision in that original deal that restricted outbound investments by U.S. companies in China. That was taken out in the deal that ultimately was passed by Congress.

And my understanding is that the incoming administration didn't want it in there. And that's – there’s – this is going to raise a whole bunch of questions on Capitol Hill. I think this point that you just made is something I’m going to be watching a lot next year, this notion that the incoming administration thinks that Congress is just an arm of Donald Trump to do his will. There is a clash with Republicans on this because they do not see themselves in that regard. And it will be interesting to see them fight back.

BRAZILE: It’s a co-equal branch of government and they will assert. They will –

ISGUR: It's not co-equal. It’s first – Congress is first.

BRAZILE: Article 1 – you’re right. But, seriously, the – the Trump administration, the incoming, will have to respect the members of Congress.

BADE: Oh, they're not going to.

KLEIN: Yes, exactly. But that – that’s the point, this isn’t an ongoing negotiation. This is a law on the books.

BADE: Yes.

KLEIN: Congress doesn't want the law, they can go repeal it and Donald Trump can sign the repeal.

BADE: Right.

KLEIN: But as long as it's a law on the books, it's hard to make that argument that like, hey, I'm going to cut a deal, Supreme Court, so never mind what the law is. That’s a tough – tough thing to swallow.

ISGUR: And the Supreme Court is not going to say otherwise. Donald Trump in this asked for a stay, meaning he just wants the law to be delayed until he gets into office. Congress chose to have January 19th, before they knew who would be the incoming president.

BRAZILE: That’s right.

ISGUR: The Supreme Court’s not going to change that deadline.

KARL: So – so, TikTok's going to be banned?

ISGUR: Well, the Supreme Court will have a decision before January 19th.

KARL: Yes.

ISGUR: There is some chance that they could decide another way, but I think TikTok will have to divest.

KARL: OK. All right, coming up, the biggest moments and most shocking developments in one of the strangest and most unpredictable years in the history of American politics. We'll look back at what mattered most in 2024 when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: This year was filled with surprises in politics. So as Donald Trump prepares to head back to the White House, we take a look at his 2024 path to victory when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: As we head toward the new year, we wanted to take a look back at the remarkable moments that made 2024 one of the most consequential years in the history of American politics.

Here's our look at the moments that mattered most in 2024.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES: I’m the greatest of all time, maybe greater even than Elvis.

KAMALA HARRIS, VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We are not going back.

(CHEERS)

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The 2024 election was crazed.

KARL: Fascinating.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Bonkers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Unstoppably unpredictable.

(LAUGHTER)

LARA TRUMP, RNC CO-CHAIR: It's historic.

(CHANTING “USA”)

TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: The Republican primary was over more or less before it started.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: You had several people vying for the Republican nomination here.

SCOTT: But there was always still Donald Trump.

TRUMP: We have been launching like a rocket.

SCOTT: It was very clear that this was going to be Donald Trump's party.

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS ANCHOR: After Super Tuesday, it is now a Biden/Trump rematch.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: No. The baby boomer death grip continues.

MARY BRUCE, ABC NEWS CHIEF WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT: They both were deeply unpopular.

KATHERINE FAULDERS, ABC NEWS SENIOR REPORTER: Trump is facing dozens of criminal counts, 34 of which he was convicted of.

TRUMP: The real verdict is going to be November 5th.

KARL: Biden is facing concerns about the economy, inflation. People think he's too old.

BRAD MIELKE, HOST & MANAGING EDITOR, “START HERE” PODCAST: Then we had themost consequential debate of all-time.

KARL: Trump dares Biden to have an early debate. And Biden surprises the world by saying, yes, he'll do it.

JOE BIDEN, (D) PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: Well, make my day, pal.

JOHN SANTUCCI, ABC NEWS EXECUTIVE EDITORIAL PRODUCER: The stakes could not have been higher.

MIELKE: He shuffles on, he looks pasty, he looks distant, and then he starts to talk.

BIDEN: The, the, the -- the, the total initiative relative to what we're going to do with more border patrol and more asylum officers.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: President Trump?

DONALD TRUMP, (R) PRESIDENT-ELECT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I really don't know what he said at the end of that sentence. I don't think he knows what he said either.

JON STEWART, HOST OF "THE DAILY SHOW" ON COMEDY CENTRAL: Need to call the real estate agent in New Zealand.

(LAUGH)

LARA TRUMP, FORMER CO-CHAIR, REPUBLICAN NATIONAL COMMITTEE: We know whose side I'm on. And I felt a little sorry for Joe Biden.

CHARLAMAGNE THA GOD, CO-HOST, "THE BREAKFAST CLUB": I knew it. I knew it. I knew it. I called it, I didn't think it was a good idea for him to debate.

KARL: I got a text message from a Biden supporter saying, we need a new nominee.

GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS, ABC ANCHOR OF "THIS WEEK" AND FORMER WHITE HOUSE COMMUNICATIONS DIRECTOR: But it seemed like you were having trouble from the first question there, even before he spoke.

BIDEN: Well, I just had a bad night.

D. TRUMP: If you want to really see something that said, take a look at what happened --

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: We heard what we appeared to be gunfire coming. The former president was rushed off the stage.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: This comes at a moment of extreme division in this country.

L. TRUMP: Your heart's in your throat.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: He had blood streaming down from his ear.

LYNNE PATTON, SENIOR ADVISER TO PRESIDENT-ELECT DONALD TRUMP: And he raised his fist. He said, fight.

L. TRUMP: That photo really shows who Donald Trump is. And he had to show people that he was OK.

PATTON: There was divine intervention that day.

L. TRUMP: The really tough thing for me was when my daughter, my four-year-old daughter said, well, why would somebody want to hurt grandpa? And that's hard.

(CROWD CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Donald J. Trump.

MIELKE: What was always going to be a coronation of sorts, now turned into almost a religious experience.

(CROWD CHEERING)

MIELKE: This was a man who had survived the closest brush with death imaginable.

(CROWD CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: He was overwhelmed and humbled the first night of that convention.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Trump announces as his running mate, it's JD Vance.

(CROWD CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: They had Hulk Hogan. They had Kid Rock. They had Babydog Justice.

KARL: He told me that he had ripped up his speech. He said, I had written a humdinger, and now I want to give a message that's more of unity.

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR CONGRESSIONAL CORRESPONDENT: And that message of unity lasted all about 20 minutes.

D. TRUMP: We beat him on the impeachments. We beat him on indictments. We beat him.

SCOTT: There was growing pressure on President Biden to drop out of the race.

JIMMY FALLON, HOST OF "THE TONIGHT SHOW": He's basically the guy doing 30 in the left lane, and he ain't moving for anybody.

(LAUGH)

FALLON: You know that guy?

MARTHA RADDATZ, ABC NEWS CHIEF GLOBAL AFFAIRS CORRESPONDENT: The comparison between Donald Trump victorious at the RNC and seeing the president of the United States kind of slowly try to get in a vehicle after he was diagnosed with COVID, it was almost, that's it.

SCOTT: President Biden has just announced that he is ending his re-election bid.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: Rachel, the president in a tweet just announcing that he is offering his full support and endorsement for Kamala Harris to be the nominee of the party.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: This was just a massive, huge moment in American politics.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: How was it her nomination groundbreaking?

ROCSI DIAZ, ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Her candidacy was beautiful. It was super inspirational to women of color especially.

(CROWD CHEERING)

KAMALA HARRIS, (D) VICE PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: And when we fight, we win. God bless you.

OPRAH WINFREY, AMERICAN HOST AND TELEVISION PRODUCER: Let us choose joy.

(CROWD CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: The Democratic Convention was relief.

MICHELLE OBAMA, FORMER FIRST LADY OF THE UNITED STATES: Something wonderfully magical is in the air, isn't it?

(CROWD CHEERING)

MIELKE: You've got star after star.

BARACK OBAMA, (D) FORMER PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES OF AMERICA: I'm feeling fired up.

(CROWD CHEERING)

MIELKE: This was the Democratic National Coachella.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: DNC, turn out the works.

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The crowd was so excited that the plexiglass behind us was pounding.

HARRIS: I accept your nomination to be president of the United States of America.

(CROWD CHEERING)

UNIDENTIFIED FEMALE: The challenge was, could they take the energy there and carry it forward through this sprint?

DAVID MUIR, ABC NEWS PRESIDENTIAL DEBATE MODERATOR: The ABC News, presidential debate starts right now.

MIELKE: Harris is sitting back, giving him kind of a smirk, putting her head on her hands like she knows what she's doing.

HARRIS: People start leaving his rallies early out of exhaustion and boredom.

D. TRUMP: People don't leave my rallies.

STEPHEN COLBERT, HOST OF "THE LATE SHOW", CBS: Harris got under his skin like she was stuffing in butter and rosemary. It was beautiful.

(CROWD CHEERING)

MIELKE: However, Trump's message is, you are part of the Biden-Harris Administration, and whatever has happened in the last four years is on you. She never really quite had a response for that.

SUNNY HOSTIN, CO-HOST OF "THE VIEW", ABC: Would you have done something differently than President Biden during the past four years?

HARRIS: There is not a thing that comes to mind.

HOSTIN: I seem to have asked the question heard round the world, didn't I?

KARL: That is the wrong answer, and the Republicans pounced on it.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: Skyrocketing prices, global chaos, and Kamala wouldn't change a thing.

MIELKE: Trump's message throughout the lot of the year was remarkably simple, right? It's the economy, stupid.

SCOTT: Democrats were pushing for reproductive rights and abortion rights to be front and center.

BRUCE: Kamala Harris was trying to take a really optimistic tone, while Donald Trump had a much darker tone.

TRUMP: I talk about the enemy from within. They're the enemy from within.

MUIR: Polls have just closed in six states tonight.

MIELKE: So election night comes and it immediately becomes clear that Donald Trump is in a much better position the win this race.

L. TRUMP: So we had all gone over to the convention center.

BRET BAIER, FOX NEWS ANCHOR: Donald Trump will become the 47th president of the United States.

L. TRUMP: And we heard everybody out there start going crazy, but we all hugged and we all high-fived. And we went out on stage.

TRUMP: Frankly, this was, I believe, the greatest political movement of all time. There's never been anything like this in this country, and maybe beyond.

BRAZILE: The electorate was not in the mood for status quo politics. They wanted a disruptor and change and that is Donald Trump.

TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT: So Trump won all seven of the battleground states. He made major inroads with Hispanic voters, with black voters, with young men. The party switched. He has changed American politics.

PATTON: We are the majority, and the majority has spoken.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

KARL: And we'll all stay tuned for what comes next. You can see the full ABC special "THE YEAR" streaming now on Hulu. We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

KARL: As we get ready to turn the page to 2025, we want to recognize the hard work of people behind the scenes who make this show possible each and every week. And thanks to our viewers for tuning in each Sunday. Have a safe and Happy New Year.