'This Week' Transcript 2-9-25: Sen. Chris Murphy and Rep. Mike Turner

A rush transcript of "This Week with George Stephanopoulos" airing on Sunday, February 9, 2025 on ABC News is below. This copy may not be in its final form, may be updated and may contain minor transcription errors. For previous show transcripts, visit the "This Week" transcript archive.

THE INFORMATION CONTAINED IN RUSH AND PREFEED TRANSCRIPTS IS A BEST POSSIBLE TEXTUAL REPRESENTATION OF THE APPLICABLE CONTENT. WHILE EFFORTS ARE MADE TO PROVIDE AN ACCURATE TRANSCRIPTION, THERE MAY BE MATERIAL ERRORS, OMISSIONS, OR INACCURACIES IN THE REPORTING OF THE SUBSTANCE OF THE RUSH AND PREFEED TRANSCRIPTS FILES DUE TO AUDIO IMPAIRMENTS.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

ANNOUNCER: THIS WEEK WITH GEORGE STEPHANOPOULOS starts right now.

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

MARTHA RADDATZ, "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: Elon Musk strikes again.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: He's a very talented guy from the standpoint of management and costs.

RADDATZ: The president's favorite billionaire pushes deep into federal agencies.

KAROLINE LEAVITT, WHITE HOUSE PRESS SECRETARY: We're going to look at the receipts of this federal government and ensure it's accountable to American taxpayers.

RADDATZ: Democrats sounding the alarm.

SEN. CHUCK SCHUMER (D-NY): An unelected shadow government is conducting a hostile takeover of the federal government.

REP. HAKEEM JEFFRIES (D-NY): It's unacceptable, unconscionable, and un-American.

RADDATZ: This morning, Rachel Scott breaks down Musk's war on Washington. Senator Chris Murphy on how Democrats are scrambling to respond.

Middle East stunner.

TRUMP: The U.S. will take over the Gaza Strip, and we will do a job with it too.

RADDATZ: President Trump sparks international outrage and shock at home. Is he serious? We'll ask Republican Congressman Mike Turner. Plus, analysis from our powerhouse roundtable.

And mind games. Ahead of tonight's Super Bowl rematch, former NFL quarterback Alex Smith takes us inside the all-important mental game to play on football's biggest stage.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

ANNOUNCER: From ABC News it’s THIS WEEK. Here now, Martha Raddatz.

RADDATZ: Good morning, and welcome to THIS WEEK, And what a week. The relentless headlines can seem overwhelming. More federal agencies targeted, more court cases filed, more chaos and confusion. And that may be the point.

Under President Trump's guidance, Elon Musk's Department of Government Efficiency taking an axe to the country's foreign aid program, USAID, while setting their sights next on the Education Department, and the Pentagon, all part of an effort to massively reduce federal spending.

But this is where things stand as we come on the air this morning. Ahead of a Monday deadline, at least 65,000 federal workers have agreed to take buyouts so far, and DOGE has gained access to at least 10 federal agencies where they are targeting more cuts to the federal workforce.

And over overnight, the Consumer Financial Protection Bureau, the government watchdog charged with safeguarding American consumers' finances, has been effectively shut down. Employees there told in a late-night message to cease all activity.

But there is now growing pushback in the courts to Musk's moves with judges taking actions to delay and halt many of DOGE's efforts, including their access to key Treasury Department payment systems.

So, we begin this morning with ABC's Rachel Scott on Musk's attempts to remake Washington and what the courts are doing in response.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RACHEL SCOTT, ABC NEWS SENIOR POLITICAL CORRESPONDENT (voice over): Over the last three weeks Elon Musk and his team at the Department of Government Efficiency have been on a singular mission, shrink the size of the federal government. And this morning, their efforts are being put to the test in a series of court challenges throughout the nation.

DONALD TRUMP, PRESIDENT OF THE UNITED STATES: We're going to be doing that throughout government, and I think we're going to be very close to balancing budgets for the first time in many years.

SCOTT (voice over): Just as the signs came down at USAID, the humanitarian agency that's provided relief for 32 million children around the world, a federal judge halted the administration's plan to place 2,000 of the agency's workers on leave. Musk's original goal, gut the agency from 14,000 to just over 600.

SAMANTHA POWER, FORMER USAID ADMINISTRATOR: This is a disaster, and not just from a humanitarian standpoint, from the standpoint of all the beneficiaries who may, in fact, die because they won't have access to U.S. resources, but it's a disaster for U.S. national interests and national security.

SCOTT (voice over): For days, Musk and his team had access to sensitive information at the Department of Treasury, but a judge temporarily blocking that too, saying there was a risk of “irreparable harm.”

The department system has the Social Security Numbers of bank account information of millions of Americans. But the president showing no signs of slowing down.

TRUMP: I said, go to the next – go to the next one. I’d like you to look at Department of Education. And I think you're going to find it's very similar. Different, but similar. And go into the military. Go into everything. I mean, I want you to go into everything.

SCOTT (voice over): The administration sent a buyout offer for federal workers with a choice to resign now and be paid through September, or run the risk of being laid off. A judge putting that on hold until at least Monday afternoon. The White House says the rulingjust gives workers more time to take advantage of what they call a “once-in-a-lifetime offer.”

LEAVITT: This is going to save the American people tens of millions of dollars. And we encourage federal workers in this city to accept the very generous offer.

SCOTT (voice over): The rapidly developing legal battles causing chaos and confusion. The president putting the entire Department of Education on the chopping block after roughly 100 employees who work on DEI initiatives were placed on leave last week.

President Trump's team also preparing an executive order, directing the department to make a plan to dismantle itself, and for Congress to pass a law eliminating it. His nominee to lead education, Linda McMahon, set to be in confirmation hearings this week.

TRUMP: I told Linda, Linda, I hope you do a great job and put yourself out of a job. And what I want to do is let the states run schools.

SCOTT (voice over): After weeks of relative quiet, Democrats pushing back against the administration's efforts.

UNIDENTIFIED MALE: We're going to be the opposition.

SCOTT (voice over): And turning their anger on Elon Musk.

SEN. ELIZABETH WARREN, (D) MASSACHUSETTS: No one elected Elon Musk to nothing. And yet Elon Musk is seizing the power that belongs to the American people.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D) CONNECTICUT: We have not months, we have not weeks, but we have days to stop the destruction of our democracy.

SCOTT (voice over): As Trump, Musk, and DOGE carry out their purge of the federal government, Republicans on Capitol Hill, defending their actions.

SCOTT: The reality?

SEN. JOHN KENNEDY, (R) LOUISIANA: The message to my Democratic friends is, I hear your criticism, but you need to call somebody who cares.

SEN. THOM TILLIS, (R) NORTH CAROLINA: He's throwing out big ideas. And if anybody thinks that all of these big ideas are going to be implemented to conclusion, they don't understand the process of disruption.

SCOTT: Why not go through Congress for that?

TILLIS: Because you're reporting and you're asking questions about the old way of doing things.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

SCOTT (on camera): So, back to that buyout offer for those federal workers. That hearing is now scheduled for Monday. We were told at least 65,000 people had taken the administration up on that offer, but Democrats and unions are warning that since this money was not approved by Congress, there's no certainty those workers are going to get it, Martha.

MARTHA RADDATZ, "THIS WEEK" CO-ANCHOR: And, Rachel, we heard Trump there say he told Elon Musk to look at defense spending?

SCOTT: Yes, the president was asked directly, is there anything that Elon Musk cannot touch? He said that he's directing him to basically look at almost every single government program. We know two of the most expensive are Social Security and also the Department of Defense spending. And so, he did say that Elon Musk will now be tasked with going through and reviewing the Pentagon's budget. That's something that we really haven't heard a lot of Republicans support in the past. But the president did make clear that for now Social Security is off the table, Martha.

RADDATZ: And we'll see about all of that. Thanks, Rachel Scott.

And I'm joined now in studio by Democratic Senator Chris Murphy of Connecticut, who has been outspoken this week, opposing the Trump administration’s latest move.

Good morning, Senator.

SEN. CHRIS MURPHY, (D) CONNECTICUT: Good morning.

RADDATZ: Good to have you here this morning.

You have used incredibly strong language. A Constitutional crisis. Grossly unconstitutional. Pretty alarming language.

MURPHY: Yes, listen, I think this is the most serious Constitutional crisis the country has faced, certainly, since Watergate. The president is attempting to seize control of power and for corrupt purposes. The president wants to be able to decide how and where money is spent so that he can reward his political friends, he can punish his political enemies. That is the evisceration of democracy.

You stand that next to the wholesale endorsement of political violence with the pardons given to every single January 6th rioter, including the most violent who beat police officers over the head with baseball bats, and you can see what he’s trying to do here. He is trying to crush his opposition by making them afraid of losing federal funding, by making them afraid of physical violence. And so, yes, this is a red alert moment when this entire country has to understand that our democracy is at risk. And for what? The billionaire takeover of government.

I'm sure we’ll talk about this, but Elon Musk is inside our federal agencies (INAUDIBLE) to steal our money.

RADDATZ: But – but let me just say right now, they – they want to cut the federal budget. They would all – all disagree that it’s corruption or anything else. They want to cut the federal budget and the workforce. Do you have issues with that?

MURPHY: Well, I don’t, but there is no evidence that that is the goal ultimately. At USAID, they sent a whole bunch of people home who are still getting paid. And I think you have to ask, why are they doing this if it’s not actually accruing any savings? And to me, again, the reason is that somebody like Elon Musk stands to gain from the closure of USAID. It makes America much less safe around the world, but it helps China.

The USAID is a thorn in the side of the Chinese government. Elon Musk has many major business interests at stake inside Beijing. And so making Beijing happy is going to accrue to the financial benefit of Elon Musk and many billionaires who outsource work to China.

RADDATZ: Senator, you have the court process working. A judge has now barred Elon Musk team’s from the Treasury database. They have blocked Trump’s birthright citizenship executive order. So, why not just let the system work?

MURPHY: Well, I mean, first of all, we – we’re not sure it’s working right now. I continue to get reports from Connecticut that agencies there, like Head Start programs and community health centers are actually not receiving the funding that they are due. So, I think there’s a big question as to whether the administration actually is implementing the court order. And the pace of this assault on the Constitution in order to serve the billionaire class, it is absolutely dizzying.

And so, you have to run a full-scale opposition. You can’t just rely on the courts. Ultimately, you’ve got to bring the American public into this conversation because we need our Republican colleagues in the House and in the Senate ultimately to put a stop to this. You cannot just rely on the court system when the challenge to the Constitution and the billionaire takeover is so acute and so urgent.

RADDATZ: You -- you talk about the American public, who, according to a recent Reuters/Ipsos poll, a majority of Americans, 56 percent, support freezing U.S. foreign aid programs, excluding the life-saving assistance.

So, what would you say to those people when Donald Trump and Elon Musk say, what we are trying to do is exactly what you want?

MURPHY: But they’re not freezing programs. They are eliminating the entire department. Their plan is to go from 14,000 employees down to 300.

RADDATZ: And fold it into the State Department?

MURPHY: Well, no, they’re talking about eliminating it. I mean that’s the talking point, folding it into the State Department. They were lying when they said that. They are eliminating the department altogether.

When you go from 14,000 employees to 300, you have no soft power left in the world. The military tells us that if you eliminate foreign aid, you will have to double the number of bullets you buy them. Why? Because we present conflict around the world through things like economic development and conflicts resolution.

I think the American public are learning about the scale of this corruption, how our foreign policy is being turned over to billionaires like Elon Musk, to help them financially. And as the American people are learning how much influence the billionaires have and how corrupt our policy has become, they are turning against this handover of government to the very few economic elites.

RADDATZ: Senator, do talk a little bit about USAID and how it works. These are -- it’s a subsidy program. The taxpayer dollars pay farmers for soy or rice and then those are donated, correct? How much of it is a subsidy?

MURPHY: Well, listen, most of what USAID is doing is employing Americans, and often foreign nationals, to try to prevent instability and conflict. They are also working to try to reduce the reasons why young people join terrorist groups overseas. They are chasing Chinese and Russian influence.

I mean, listen, the major question of the next 50 years is, who will control the piping of the international economy, the United States or China. It’s USAID, not the U.S. military, that is working to try to blunt Chinese influence. So, it’s ultimately American and European rules that control the global economy, not Chinese rules.

So, USAID is out there protecting American jobs and American interests. And if you roll up USAID, it is just a massive gift to China in particular. And that is very bad for U.S. national security interests, very bad for the U.S. economy and U.S. workers.

RADDATZ: You talk about the Democrats. Senator John Fetterman is urging his fellow Democrats to calm down a bit on language exactly like yours, saying: If you keep yelling people are going to stop paying attention. Democrats have already used the most severe kinds of language and condemnation. It’s going to lose its value and no one’s going to pay attention to it.

Your response?

MURPHY: I don’t agree. I'm not going to calm down. I had 800 people at a rally with 24 hours’ notice in Connecticut this last weekend. This is a fundamental corruption.

And democracies don’t last forever. And what those who are trying to destroy democracies want is for everyone to stay quiet, for everyone to believe that the moment isn’t urgent. They want to use violence and the threat of violence and the threat of arrests to keep the opposition at home.

We are not going to do this. We see this as a crisis of epic proportions. We were watching the billionaires try to steal government from the people. And I think the broad cross section of the American public, as you’ve seen in the last week, is going to rise up and say, enough. If they want to – if they –

RADDATZ: Well, we – we have seen in the last week, we’ve seen people rise up. We’ve seen protests. But these are not massive, massive protests. How do you keep doing this? Who is leading this in the Democratic Party? What is the vision?

MURPHY: Well, I mean, we’re only two weeks into the administration and you have seen –

RADDATZ: And yet you know what was going to happen.

MURPHY: Yes, and you have – and you have seen some very big crowds. But I don’t think the American public knew what was going to happen. I mean I don’t think that Donald Trump ran on giving his billionaire adviser access to Americans' personal financial data, access to their Medicare and Medicaid records. So, I do think there’s a lot of people out there who didn’t think Donald Trump was going to do some of the most reckless things he said, and certainly didn’t think that the conflicted billionaires were going to have access to their personal information.

RADDATZ: OK, thanks so much for joining us, Senator. We appreciate it.

MURPHY: Thank you.

RADDATZ: Up next, former House Intelligence Committee Chair Mike Turner reacts to Trump’s moves to cut foreign aid, and the president’s call for the U.S. to take over Gaza.

We’re back in two minutes.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Millions of people around the world rely on life-saving aid from USAID. Secretary of State Marco Rubio says the State Department can offer waivers for some of the most critical aid efforts to continue, but there are questions about who would be left at the agency to process those waivers.

We checked in with NGOs abroad about how they've already been impacted.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

CHRISTINE STEGLING, DEPUTY EXECUTIVE DIRECTOR, JOINT U.N. PROGRAMME ON HIV/AIDS & ASSISTANT SECRETARY-GENERAL OF THE UNITED NATIONS: I'm Christine Stegling. I'm a deputy executive director at UN AIDS (ph), the joint program within the United Nations responding to HIV and AIDS.

The United States government provides about 70 percent of all funding for HIV and AIDS globally. And so pausing any of that is a big shock to the system. Community clinics are closed because communities are not sure what the guidance is, and they're not sure what costs can be covered, and they're afraid that they will be asked to repay services that they have charged to U.S. government contracts. So, these are people's lives that are really at risk here.

YURIY BOYECHKO, PRESIDENT, HOPE FOR UKRAINE: My name is Yuriy Boyechko. I'm CEO and founder of Hope for Ukraine. And we’ve been working on the ground in Ukraine since 2016, providing humanitarian aid to people affected by war.

Firewood is a lifeline right now for the people in Ukraine because there's millions of people in Ukraine that live in frontline areas. They don't have electricity. They don't have gas. So, a lot of the small NGOs who are getting small grants from USAID to bring this firewood into these areas to distribute to families there, now since the aid has stopped, unless there's other organizations that will come in and take the spot, these people will be left in the cold, freezing, literally.

We've always been thinking that, you know, the United States got our back in our darkestperiod of time, and now since USA is pulling away, a lot of people are losing hope.

SHAMIL IDRISS, CEO, SEARCH FOR COMMON GROUND: I'm Shamil Idriss. I'm the CEO of Search for Common Ground, which is the largest non-governmental peace building organization in the world. War has just emerged -- re-emerged in Eastern Congo in Central Africa, where hundreds of thousands of people have been forced to flee. We had to stop broadcasting on our network of radio stations in the east of the country that provide a lifeline for people.

So literally today, people are running in the wrong direction. They're fleeing towards violence rather than away from it. The stop work orders that we received across more than 30 programs and projects, no two were alike. Some of the information was inconsistent, ambiguous, or even contradictory. So chaos has really ensued.

NOAH GOTTSCHALK, SENIOR DIRECTOR OF INTERNATIONAL ADVOCACY, HIAS: So I'm Noah Gottschalk. I'm senior director for International Advocacy at HIAS.

HIAS is the global Jewish humanitarian organization working in more than 20 countries around the world to help refugees find safety. The last few weeks have been total and complete chaos. We've had to stop programs for example with survivors of violence against women in Latin America and the support that we provide them is often the difference between them being forced to maybe return to those abusive former partners or becoming vulnerable to human trafficking.

The U.S. abandoning some of the most desperate people in the world right now absolutely will create a vacuum and I'm deeply concerned about who's going to fill that vacuum.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: So much concern out there.

I'm joined now by Republican Congressman Mike Turner of Ohio, the former chair of the House Intelligence Committee.

Congressman, so many people worried about this and impact already. I know some of this is in the court still. But how concerned are you?

REP. MIKE TURNER (R-OH): Martha, certainly, this is very compelling and these are, obviously, you know, needs that that are compelling. And they certainly relate to U.S. interests. And we are going through an issue of changes of administration but I think, certainly, as you were relating in the last interview that you just conducted, the American people know that we're in a financial crisis right now.

We have -- the U.S. Government Accountability Office on February 5th just sent this letter to the president, the president of the Senate, and the speaker of the House. And it says the federal government is on an unsustainable fiscal path, the unsustainable fiscal outlook poses serious economic security and social challenges if it's not addressed. The report attached indicates that by 2027, we'll be at a historical ratio of debt to the economy, and it's the rounded deficit is $36 trillion. The American public know this is not sustainable. That's just in this congressional session. In two years, we will be at a critical point and, obviously, very tough decisions have to be made and they need to be made now.

RADDATZ: Is this the way to make those decisions? There's no doubt you can look at the budget. You can look at places where things have been cut. There's some alarming anecdotes that they put out there that things are in the budget. But is this the necessary and appropriate way to do this given what you're just hearing from around the world?

TURNER: Well, I think what you're hearing is that this administration is taking a critical view right now. I mean, we have a continuing resolution that goes through March, and this administration is taking an immediate assessment of where we're spending our funds and where do we need to spend them. And in order to do so, they need to take a stop, they need to take a critical view.

The American public know that their monies are being spent around the world and they need to determine how they need to be spent in the way that advances U.S. interest --

RADDATZ: But you talk about like reviewing.

TURNER: -- and do so in a way that we can balance the budget so that we cannot have this debt to ratio at the end of 2027. That's just in two years, that is absolutely, as they say just here, an unsustainable fiscal path.

RADDATZ: You've talked about assessment or review and look at this and they're trying to figure this out. They basically took the sign down off USAID. They basically want to close it down. Is that really a review, an assessment?

TURNER: Well, USAID is a unique situation because not only is it one where they're doing a fiscal review, how should the money be spent, where should we be spending our money. But it's also a policy review. And on a force policy aspect and certainly you've heard this from the secretary of state, I mean, we have been on a structural issue where we have diffused our foreign policy.

We've had USAID that has been separate from really the ambassador structure and our embassy structure. Commerce has been separate. DOD has been separate. You know, taking a view where we -- how do we merge these back so we have one voice in foreign policy. Instead of USAID doing something, our foreign policy and ambassadors doing something, DOD doing something, Commerce doing something, how do we get back to one voice where we advance America instead of everybody doing their own thing in foreign policy is probably a good policy.

RADDATZ: But you yourself have said Elon Musk's actions are disruptive. He's acting like a bull in a China shop. So let me go back to before --

TURNER: He’s very -- he's very disruptive. First off, let's be clear, USAID is not a criminal enterprise and people who work for the government have an important job to do, and they need to be honored.

And, certainly, as Elon Musk goes about his job which is a very important job. I mean, the fact that we have Elon Musk looking from the private sector into the public sector, advising the president in ways that we can find ways to reduce overall spending, to get this -- this curve down is incredibly important and an unbelievable opportunity for our government and for President Trump to do what the American public elected him to.

He needs to in a more professional way to communicate with the American public and certainly communicate to the government enterprise a professional goal and objective.

RADDATZ: You heard Chris Murphy, Senator Murphy just now say that China might fill the vacuum in places that USAID leaves. Is that a concern of yours?

TURNER: No, I don't believe that they're -- they're -- they're going to -- so they're not going to come in and start providing aid of this nature. They -- they don't have the heart for it. They don't have the goals and objectives for it. This is -- this is not what they do.

It is what we do because we -- we have compassion. Not only do we do it on a government basis. We even do on a philanthropic basis.

But let's be clear also to counter what the senator just said. We do not have a constitutional crisis. What we're doing right now is the executive branch is trying to get control over the executive branch.

Unfortunately, sometimes on the left, they view the bureaucracy as a fourth branch of government and that it's not to be touched. In this instance, we have Elon Musk and the president of the United States going over to the bureaucracy and saying we're going to tame you. We're going to pull you back under the executive branch. We're going to look at ways in which we can find savings, and we're going to, you know, bring this spending curve down.

And in doing so, the left believes that that they have, you know, violated that fourth branch. We're going to bring it back under the executive branch. We're going to bring that spending down as the American public believe.

I think the American public believe that government is not responsive, that no one can tame it. We're going to see that that President Trump and Elon Musk are going to bring that curve down.

RADDATZ: And I want to turn to Gaza and Israel. We saw those images of the three hostages that were released this weekend, looking terribly gaunt, having Hamas fighters next to them.

Will that make any difference do you think with the ceasefire going forward?

But I also want to talk to you about President Trump's pledge to take over Gaza which he really doubled down on this week.

TURNER: You know, one thing that this has done is it certainly has exposed the issue that the two-state solution isn't a plan and isn't a proposal, it's a slogan, because no one came forward and said this is -- this is disruptive or provocative to our two-state solution.

I mean, there's -- there's no -- there's no one who's the leader of it. There's -- there's no -- there's no structure for it. There's no one who's working on the governance structure for West Bank.

RADDATZ: Do President Trump's comments help?

TURNER: I think it does pose the challenge of focusing on the fact that Hamas and the Palestinians and the terrorist structure that's there needs to be dismantled, that Israel doesn’t (ph) deserve and need a -- you know, a peaceful structure, that the Palestinians, regardless of where they are, pose a security threat, that there is no path to a two-state solution, no one is currently working toward it.

The fact that there is no alternative I think really has been -- light has been shine on it and it's going to really challenge I think the entire region and really the international community to say, well, really what are we doing? And they're going to be challenged to do something.

RADDATZ: Lots of outrage over those comments for President Trump though.

Thanks so much for joining us, Congressman.

TURNER: Thank you.

RADDATZ: Coming up, how are Trump voters reacting to the president's first three weeks in office? We'll hear what supporters are saying when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: The Roundtable is all here, ready to weigh in on a busy week in Washington, and we'll hear from Trump supporters when we come back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

TRUMP: I think in two weeks, they're saying I'm reading it, so I'm not even saying it, but I feel it that we've done more than just about any president ever. The first two weeks have been probably, they say, the most successful two weeks in the history of any presidency. Now, all we have to do is keep it going for another couple of hundred weeks.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: President Trump this week with his take on the start of his second administration.

As we’ve been reporting this morning, there has been outrage in some circles, but we wanted to see the reaction of those who voted for him. Who voted for change. So, we checked in with a few of his supporters to find out about these lightning-fast few weeks.

(BEGIN VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ (voice over): Virginia voter Alissa Baker may not be completely content with Donald Trump's first weeks in office, but she is far from unhappy with him.

ALISSA BAKER, TRUMP SUPPORTER: There's a lot happening real fast. So, I would say, probably a little bit of my head spinning just trying to digest it all.

RADDATZ (voice over): We first met Baker months before the presidential election. A Nikki Haley supporter who, back then, was so disappointed when Haley dropped out that Baker was considering staying home on Election Day. Ultimately, she begrudgingly voted for President Trump, motivated largely by his stances on immigration and national security. And she is liking what she's sees.

BAKER: I think the American people really spoke strongly that immigration was a top concern, safety and security. It was one of the things that swayed me. So, I'm glad to see bold action because I think it's needed.

RADDATZ (voice over): So far, Baker supports President Trump's efforts to curb illegal immigration, including deporting migrants even if they haven't been convict of crimes.

And when it comes to those controversial moves by Elon Musk and the Department of Government Efficiency, Baker isn't too surprised.

BAKER: I think it's pretty characteristic of Elon Musk. And I think that, you know, the whole idea of coming in and looking at government efficiency was going to be very disruptive, by design.

RADDATZ (voice over): Like Baker, software engineer Rick Strucko say he isn't bothered by Elon Musk’s heavy hand.

RICK STRUCKO, TRUMP SUPPORTER: What I will say is that I think that the government needs to have some kind of check like that introduced. And so even though I'm not entirely certain that he's going to about it the right way, I do think that what he is setting out to do needs to be done.

RADDATZ (voice over): Strucko also praised the Trump administration's crackdown on immigration.

STRUCKO: I understand the – the challenge, right? Like, that is very – it's a rough situation, and I recognize that.

And so, as harsh as it can seem, I think it's important to recognize that the responsibility of the president is first to the U.S. citizens.

RADDATZ (voice over): Trump voter Amanda Maron backed Trump because of his stance on Israel. She likes what she's seen.

AMANDA MARON, TRUMP SUPPORTER: I think he kind of came in strong and he's just taking care of everything that kind of happened over the last few years.

RADDATZ (voice over): And while Trump's comments this week on the U.S. taking over Gaza faced fierce condemnation here and abroad –

RADDATZ: What do you think about what he said this week about Gaza?

MARON: I mean, he says a lot of dumb stuff. So, I don't know. I mean, he's a lot of talk. We'll see what he actually accomplishes and gets done. I don't think he's going to actually relocate everybody out of there, but I think that he's, like, working towards some sort of solution that will hopefully, you know, help everybody.

(END VIDEOTAPE)

RADDATZ: OK. Now, let's bring in the roundtable. NPR White House correspondent Asma Khalid, former Trump Justice Department spokesperson and “Dispatch” senior editor, Sarah Isgur, “New Yorker” staff writer Susan Glasser, and ABC News senior national correspondent, Terry Moran.

Welcome, everybody.

And, Sara, I just got to get right to you on – on the legal question. So much going on. Just things thrown into the court, thrown back. What do – what do we do?

SARAH ISGUR, THE DISPATCH SENIOR EDITOR & FORMER TRUMP JUSTICE DEPARTMENT SPOKESPERSON & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: Almost every single executive order that we have talked about at this point has been stopped by a court as they decide to litigate it.

What I think is going to be really interesting for this administration, because they have done so much and thrown so much spaghetti at the wall, they're not really getting to strategically shape which of those cases, for instance, would get to the Supreme Court. And, you know, as is commonly said, bad facts make bad law. If you’re this administration, you really wanted to control those facts. Which impoundment theory is going up? Which firing? You know, the inspector general firings can look a lot different than an FBI agent when you get those facts in front of a judge.

RADDATZ: And, Terry, you pointed out this week to all of us that you thought the – the most profound case was that there's now a temporary restraining order on the attorneys general.

TERRY MORAN, ABC NEWS SENIOR NATIONAL CORRESPONDENT:SUSAN GLASSER, THE NEW YORKER STAFF WRITER: Right.

RADDATZ: Stopping the Treasury Department – stopping them going into the Treasury Department.

MORAN: Right. We'll see if they – if they acquiesce, as they say. So, this is the case brought by 19 states attorneys general – attorney generals, Democrats all, challenging Musk and Trump and the DOGE guys going into the crown jewels of the Treasury Department, the checking account of the American government. And it gets to first principles, right? The argument is, Congress was given, by the framers, the power of the purse. The power to appropriate and the power to cut. And you can't just zero out line items like that. That is –there's no Supreme Court case that says the president can refuse to spend monies appropriated by the people's representatives in Congress. He's doing this deliberately to change that.

He either will get a Supreme Court ruling that's friendly to him. This Supreme Court has been very friendly to executive power, or he'll defy a Supreme Court ruling that goes against him, non-acquiescence.

Abraham Lincoln did it. Andrew Jackson did it. Donald Trump is just the guy to do it again.

RADDATZ: And all this will take time.

ISGUR: Worth noting on that Supreme Court point on executive power. They've been very friendly to the idea that the executives in charge of the personnel in the executive branch, but not so much when it comes to conflicts with Congress and, in fact, Donald Trump in his first term was the least successful president in history of the United States at the Supreme Court, falling under 50 percent wins.

RADDATZ: I want to turn to USAID. We paid a lot of attention to that. People are very alarmed here and especially overseas.

Susan, do we have an idea of what this will look like? At one point, they did a talk about rolling it into the State Department. You heard Senator Murphy say that's a lie.

GLASSER: Yeah. I mean, Martha, we've been subjected to I think almost a kind of Orwellian picture this week of literally workers being sent out to erase the name of USAID from the stone walls outside of the headquarters. This was not a policy fight.

You know, we can have a policy discussion about what's the best way for America to have soft power in the world, what programs there should be, what there shouldn't. We have a process for that. It's called the United States Congress and in conjunction with the executive branch negotiating. This was an execution, not a policy fight.

And to me, it's very telling that they selected a target that may well be very unpopular with the American people, but it seems to me that this is a template for how they are looking to go after other executive agencies. And in fact, Elon Musk continues every way -- every day to tweet a list out, essentially of what's next.

There's no process here. It's not an on the level policy conversation, and I think that's very important for people to understand. I get that in Washington, we care about process, and out in the world, people care about outcomes.

But this is one where the process and the outcome meet because the United States has just dismantled in effect the largest foreign assistance organization in the world. Nearly -- more than half of that assistance of about $40 billion a year, about half of that more goes to public health around the world it goes to monitoring diseases and things like that.

And the question is how is it possible that one unelected billionaire, the richest man in the world can unilaterally do that without any process?

RADDATZ: You know, one of the things, Asma, that the Trump administration will say is look he campaigned on this. Elon Musk was at his side throughout this. We want to cut government. A lot of this we've seen optics.

Just -- just what Susan was saying, too, like, more than optics but ripping the sign down off the USAID.

ASMA KHALID, NPR WHITE HOUSE CORRESPONDENT & ABC NEWS CONTRIBUTOR: And he never said USAID.

RADDATZ: Yeah, he never said USAID, that's exactly right.

KHALID: I mean, there was this broad vision of essentially trying to eliminate federal bureaucracy streamline things. He did campaign on that. He campaigned on cracking down against sort of gender identity as we seeing him follow through this week. These are things that he said he would do but I think the speed and scope of just things we have seen this week is unprecedented.

And then to Susan's point -- I mean, I was speaking with a USAID staffer this week or maybe I call them a former staffer at this point, who said to me they were emailed at 12:42 a.m., in the middle of the night, to not appear at work the next day. This isn't the process of Congress sitting there and going through to assess what budgetary perhaps limitations they ought to put on USAID.

This is the case of -- as Susan said -- the richest man in the world and there's something very strange about him slashing programs that prevent starvation and hunger and poverty in much of the world.

RADDATZ: But you heard the voters, Terry. You heard those voters, the Trump supporters. It's like that's Donald Trump, not -- the harshness didn't seem in most cases to bother.

MORAN: And more importantly, they want they voted -- they want to see action and they're getting action. The question is, is it lawful and one of the problems is the Congress, you know, one of the things that the framers did when they set up three branches of government, they said this will be good because each branch will be as they said jealous of their powers and prerogatives.

And so you'll get the checks and balances that they're supposed to avoid concentrations of power. This Congress is on its knees run by, you know, the constitutional office of the speaker of the House, totally subservient, totally submissive, and they are not defending the powers and progress with Congress.

Congress should stand up and say, wait, we have the power of the purse. We're Article One for a reason. The Framers wanted most policy-making government coming from the branch closest to the people. And as long as Congress is silent, we'll see what Article Three, what the courts --

ISGUR: Where were y’all in the last administration?

RADDATZ: And Sarah -- but Sarah, I -- I want to go to you. We were talking about Elon Musk constant tweets just a little white ago. "I'd like to propose that the worst 1 percent of appointed judges, as determined by elected bodies, be fired every year. This will weed out the most corrupt and least competent."

ISGUR: OK. Well, speaking of process versus outcome, that's a disaster. Luckily, the Constitution took care of that. They serve for good behavior, which we sort of translated as life tenure. I'm not too worried about that changing. This is fishing with dynamite. Over and over again, the American people voted for change, Obama was the change candidate, and then they might have felt like they changed a lot, but the American people didn't feel that the substance of the government changed.

So Donald Trump has come in and said, you want to field change? Here. They may not like the result of the change, but I think what you're hearing from those Trump voters is they like to at least see that someone is doing something and they're willing to wait and see. I think unfortunately, that's what the U.S. Congress is doing as well, is they're going to give Trump all the leash he wants, the people he wants for his nominations, and then hold him responsible, hopefully.

RADDATZ: And Susan, I want to turn to Gaza and the comments the president made this week about Gaza, talking really more like a real estate developer than a leader.

GLASSER: Yeah. Well, I think it's important to note, first of all, that, Donald Trump said, sitting by the side of the Israeli Prime Minister, that the United States was going to take an ownership stake "in Gaza," that they were going to move out the people there, that we are going to redevelop it, but no, actually we weren't going to have to have American troops there. This is a fantasy. This is not true. It's not going to happen.

And I think that's another element that we can't ignore in the sort of shock and awe campaign that has unfolded in the first few weeks of the Trump administration. Much of what they are doing and saying --

(CROSSTALK)

GLASSER: -- is underpinned by lies and propaganda, Martha, and so --

(CROSSTALK)

ISGUR: Well, but it worked in Columbia, it worked in Panama, maybe worked in Canada and Mexico. These bluffs have been working. Wait, I think he's on --

GLASSER: Wait, I'm sorry. I'm sorry, Sarah. But that's not to say that it's working. What's the through (ph) line here? Donald Trump consistently going after America's allies and partners, never saying a word by the way, about its adversaries in the world, Russia and China, who's cheering the dismantlement of the largest foreign aid agency in the world? Russia and China are welcoming this. As far as --

ISGUR: And Panama turned down the Belt and Road --

(CROSSTALK)

GLASSER: As far as Gaza goes, I think it's feeding a fantasy to the American people. You know, it's a sort of elephant in the room to say that the United States President, he's offering something that is fantastical, that has no bearing on reality. And first of all, Israel has been at war with Hamas and has not eliminated the organization since October 7th. The idea that they're just going to say, oh, thank you, Donald Trump --

(CROSSTALK)

RADDATZ: Standing there with the hostages, we saw --

(CROSSTALK)

GLASSER: So that you can redevelop our beachfront property.

RADDATZ: It's just not going to happen.

RADDATZ: I wanted to -- I want to talk to Asma about that, any thoughts you have? But I also want to talk about, there were a lot of Arab-American voters who supported Donald Trump because they just had it with the Biden Administration's policy, particularly as a -- Gaza. So, how are they feeling? I know you did a lot of reporting before.

KHALID: Yeah, I think two things. One is on the actual idea that Trump suggested a sort of real estate bid for the United States to take over Gaza. One thing that I was struck by is the degree to which this changed the conversation. I mean, for so many years in the United States, at least on the Democratic side, the stated position of the United States government was a two-state solution.

And to me, what the president of the United States said very clearly there, was that is not within his realm of imagination. And to me that is very, very important. I think you saw a number of Arab countries strongly disagree with what President Trump said, that you cannot forcibly move an entire population, say to Jordan or Egypt and neighboring countries. I do think that is important, even as perhaps fantastical as what Trump has suggested seems.

The other thing though, about what Arab Americans are saying, I called up Osama Siblani. He runs this very large newspaper in Dearborn, Michigan this week. And you know, he was livid. He said I did not support Harris or Biden per se. I would say a number of Arab-Americans say they didn't come out and support either. Whether or not there is actually going to be misgiving on this, I don't know, Martha, I mean, people were upset with the Biden Administration. They were at a loss. I think many people voted out of (inaudible).

MORAN: And Martha just --

RADDATZ: OK, thanks. I got to stop you, Terry. Next time, we'll do it. We're just about out of time. Up next, it's Super Bowl Sunday. So, what does it take to prepare mentally for football's biggest night? ESPN Analyst and Former NFL QB, Alex Smith, joins us when we come back.

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(BEGIN VIDEO CLIP)

ANDY REID, KANSAS CITY CHIEFS HEAD COACH: I'll be with Alex Smith, I thought was something that you can't buy. And he was able to sit there and watch a guy that was the ultimate professional on and off the field. And just get an idea, the lay of the land of how things work in this league.

(END VIDEO CLIP)

RADDATZ: That was Kansas City Chiefs coach Andy Reid this week, praising former quarterback, Alex Smith, for mentoring Chiefs superstar Patrick Mahomes in his first season in the NFL.

Smith had one of the greatest comebacks in NFL history, returning to the field two years after suffering a life-threatening leg injury in 2018. He's now an ESPN NFL analyst and joins us from New Orleans ahead of tonight's big game between the Kansas City Chiefs and Philadelphia Eagles.

Thanks so much for your time, Alex.

Patrick Mahomes was your backup on the Chiefs when he was a rookie. Now you see him playing in the third straight Super Bowl on the verge of making history. When you mentored him, what was it that you thought was important that you wanted to pass on to him?

ALEX SMITH, THREE-TIME NFL PRO-BOWL QUARTERBACK: Yes, I mean, it certainly wasn't the secrets to playing quarterback. That's for sure. You know, I think that's the thing about mentorship is there isn't any one thing that you do. You know, I was in my 12th year of football at that point. I had gone through a lot in my career and had learned a lot and had really dialed down what it took for me, a father of three at that point, to be able to compartmentalize my home life and my work life and all the sacrifices that are required to be an NFL quarterback.

And the unique thing about Kansas City is the quarterback room. Everybody does everything together. You do -- you don't do anything alone. And so Patrick was thrust into that and he didn't skip a beat.

RADDATZ: You have two superstars tonight, Mahomes and Jaylen Hurts. Everyone talks about speed, about athleticism with QBs, but you've talked about intellect and how important that is with these quarterbacks, all the decisions they make on the fly.

SMITH: Yes. I mean, I think both these guys don't get enough credit for that. You know, with Patrick, I think we see the side arm throws and the no-look passes, and a lot of the plays look like recess and certainly improvisation is a big part of his game, but especially these last two years, he wins down in and down out between his ears. He's so smart. He gets the ball out faster than anybody, and to see what he's done has just been so impressive to see him morph his game.

And the same on the other sideline, Jalen Hurts, you know, I know all the attention is on this run game and Saquon Barkley, but he's really what makes this run game go. So much of it is QB driven. He makes so many decisions. So much of what he does doesn't show up on a stats sheet.

And he's certainly a big part of the reason they're here, and have a chance certainly to try and knock the Chiefs off.

RADDATZ: And we're in Washington. And I know he didn't make it to the Super Bowl, but Jayden Daniels from your former team here in Washington named 'Rookie of the Year,' he doesn't even wear a wristband with the plays, a no huddle offense.

You boiled that down to poise and said, that's something you cannot teach. So, where does that come from?

SMITH: Yeah, I mean, it's -- that's a great question, Martha, because you're talking to a guy that maybe had the worst rookie season ever, and to try and do justice to what Jayden Daniels had as -- as maybe the greatest rookie season, not just in football, but in all of sports, it's really incredible. Certainly, a testament, not just to his skill set, which is very, very unique.

And certainly, in the playoffs in the end of the year, Jayden Daniels sitting in the pocket, beating pressure, so much of that again with his poise and intellect and accuracy with his arm, and again, just really, really rare to see that.

And then in the fourth quarter with the game on the line, I -- I just can't remember a rookie quarterback delivering so many times in the clutch. So, just -- couldn't be more excited for that fan base and that organization.

RADDATZ: And back to the Super Bowl, you know, I've often wondered, mentally, how do you tune out everything? Do they care about the crowds? Do they hear about the crowds? What do you do when you're on that field?

SMITH: Yeah. You know, to me, it's not so much about the field. It's really the two weeks preparing for this. That's the bigger circus.

You know, athletes and especially football players are creatures of habit, right? I mean, we play once a week. So you really -- you really dial in on what a Monday looks like before a game and a Tuesday and a Wednesday and a Thursday.

Well, all of a sudden all of that is thrown off. You know, you're in a new town. You're in New Orleans. You're living out of a hotel. The media is just crazy here. There is distractions everywhere.

And so, I do think that the team that can eliminate a lot of those and dial in on the details that are going to show up on Sunday is going to win. You know, certainly, the Chiefs have been here a lot and are very used to the schedule, and the chaotic nature that is Super Bowl week.

But on the same time, so do the Eagles. You know, they were here two years ago. They know this well. They have great leadership.

So I don't see that being a huge issue or an advantage, so to speak, for either team. But certainly, I think when the -- you know, the lights are the brightest, I think the team that can block that out certainly has an upper hand.

RADDATZ: And you've been very diplomatic in that answer. I won't even ask you who's going to win because I think you kind of explained that.

Thanks for joining us this morning, Alex. We really appreciate it.

SMITH: Thank you so much, Martha.

RADDATZ: We'll be right back.

(COMMERCIAL BREAK)

RADDATZ: Thanks for sharing part of your Sunday with us. Have a great Super Bowl night.

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